Thread Number: 38466
GM Frig 1-18 problems
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Post# 570473   1/22/2012 at 14:30 (4,470 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        

akronman's profile picture

Usually my 1-18 works well, 1975 model, but there is a growing problem. When it goes into spin-drain, sometimes it is silent(what a shock!) for about 5 seconds then the motor overheat switch kicks in, and barely a drop of water from the hose.  Usually, when all is working, it is loud from the instant the spin-drain starts, and there's immediate strong water from the hose. When it is silent and no water, I know it's gonna heat-overload-stop. 2 minutes or so later, it cools down and kicks in again and either silently goes on overload in about 5 seconds, or loudly pumps water from the instant it starts and all is well. I've watched underneath and the the belt turns easily in both directions, the pump spindle/rollers spin in both directions, no hose kink or blockage. Both the silent start-up and the rapid heat overload switch have me baffled. It knows something is wrong in 5 seconds or less? When this happened once a month ago, I chocked it up to a fluke at age 37. Now it's about every other load, either 1st spin or second, sometimes both. Always either silent spin with no pump and dead in 5 seconds, or loud and tons of water immediately and all is well.

 

I'm new to 1-18's, it's a great machine and deserves the repairs, I don't know what to look for first. All the various rollers and spindles seem to turn at all times and are bone dry with minor rust, of course spinning in 2 diff directions depending on cycle. The recirculating pump works well, my "dry agitate" suds saving sucks back water perfectly, spin-drain works loudly and well 3/4 of the time. I'm guessing something inside the pump binds occassionally, and it's such a damn good bind that only a few drops of water move and in 5 seconds the motor overloads? DO I get inside the pump first? Any seals/O-rings needed before I attempt? All directions say to never oil, but does a drop on the base of the pump spindle help this old beast, dropping down into the pump bearing?





Post# 570477 , Reply# 1   1/22/2012 at 16:15 (4,470 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


joelippard's profile picture

I've seen this before, and repaired a fellow members machine with this same condition.  In my opinion the clutch needs to be removed, disasembled, cleaned and then reassembled.  That took care of the problem on the particular machine that I worked on.


Post# 570480 , Reply# 2   1/22/2012 at 16:27 (4,470 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        
could be timer fault

could also be a fault with the timer or motor's centrifugal switch not completing
the start circuit in spin direction,most likely the timer as faulty centrifugal
switch should bother in wash direction too.


Post# 570483 , Reply# 3   1/22/2012 at 16:56 (4,470 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
I have one doing this too....have not repaired it yet....but I am also going with the clutch is locked up.......once cooled down to restart, you can turn the timer to make it agitate, which is fine, but then go to spin, and it conks out...

also be careful as not to over-tighten the belt....


Post# 570486 , Reply# 4   1/22/2012 at 17:30 (4,470 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
BALKY 1-18 WASHER IN SPIN START

combo52's profile picture

Its the clutch binding instead of slipping at the start of spin.


Post# 570489 , Reply# 5   1/22/2012 at 17:48 (4,470 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
clutch

akronman's profile picture

the spin starts just as slow as normal working loud pumping spins starts, but only 5 quiet seconds later with no pumping it kills the motor. Also, when I first got the machine and it had almost no brake at all, I followed directions and held the tub in place for about 45 seconds of spin to "burnish" either the clutch or brake??? Then it braked for maybe one or two loads of clothes, always goes back to slow coasting stop, very slow, no brake. Is the clutch and brake one related inter-working item(in this case non-working?) ? How would it behave with a binding clutch? I guess I need to learn about 1-18 clutches, it'll be a good project, I really love this machine, cool as hell and great washes, fantastic rinses, better than average extraction. Worth it for sure, and it took over a year of searching to find it.

 

I will keep you posted and get started soon, thanks for the advice, I'd have taken apart the pump instead.

 

Of course all of this happens as the new Norge is all apart for painting, all over the basement. I may have to finish the Norge just to get working space near the 1-18.


Post# 570501 , Reply# 6   1/22/2012 at 18:44 (4,470 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
BALKY 1-18 WASHER IN SPIN START

combo52's profile picture

[ how would the machine behave with a binding clutch? ] Exactly as you have described.


Post# 570582 , Reply# 7   1/22/2012 at 22:01 (4,470 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        


joelippard's profile picture

when you get ready to start on it (it will take you about an hour or so) let us know, take some pictures.  We're here to help you...  I had the assistance of another person when I did the task but it certainly can be done alone.  You will need some brake parts cleaner, sandpaper, rags, and a stiff bristled brush -- I used a small sized brass one.  One the machine I repaired someone had oiled the sperical bearing in the agitate shaft, it slung oil up into the clutch while agitating and then when it went into spin it slipped and burned the oil into a goo like substance over time.


Post# 570612 , Reply# 8   1/22/2012 at 23:25 (4,470 days old) by wiskybill (Canton, Ohio)        

Mark, check your email

Bill


Post# 571870 , Reply# 9   1/27/2012 at 21:58 (4,465 days old) by fltcoils (South Bend, Indiana)        
I know this clutch like family

I thought it would behave for you, but one never knows...

The drive roller contacts the OD of the clutch. It is easy to see the clutch outside diameter spinning while the tub does not, due to the clutch working OK. if the clutch is siezed one can see it NOT spinning.

So have a look, if the clutch outside diameter spins, then perhaps the problem is elsewhere, as you were thinking.

When I tore this machines clutch apart last summer, I thought I got all the grease out of the clutch linings and it was good to go. It may need lube on the spin roll stop/brake cam. I was very stingy putting grease on these parts.

ref:
clutch service pages
www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/T...
go down to Reply# 35

teardown of clutch
www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/T...

My work on this machines clutch:
www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/T...
This week I worked on the clutch
...it wouldn't spin up to speed
...My disassembly of the clutch found a waxy black grease on the cams and a slick glazing on the clutch shoes. Someone had definitely oiled this 1-18 in error

To clean the parts I used acetone in a bean can with a snap on lid to prevent evaporative loss between soakings.
To clean the shoes I used:
acetone soak and rub
brass bristle brush scrubbing
mini butane torch heating


1) soak shoe in bean can with 1" of acetone for a few minutes.
2) remove shoe, lay flat on work surface. brush across glaze portion, rotate shoe 30deg, brush again until done all around
3) rinse with acetone and wipe off gunk
4) move acetone can and rags far away
5) light mini torch (Item #41169, harbor freight) and heat shoe surface
6) carefully increase heat on surface in one spot until hydrocarbon flames up, then move on to next area
7) repeat until glaze disappears after step 5 and oil doesn't flame up anymore.

When I reassembled the washer today the cluch worked quite well. When just a bit of water was left in the tub it spun up to full speed in what seemed to be less than 30 seconds



CLICK HERE TO GO TO fltcoils's LINK


Post# 571871 , Reply# 10   1/27/2012 at 21:59 (4,465 days old) by fltcoils (South Bend, Indiana)        
pump pt1

.

Post# 571873 , Reply# 11   1/27/2012 at 22:00 (4,465 days old) by fltcoils (South Bend, Indiana)        
pump pt2

.

Post# 571874 , Reply# 12   1/27/2012 at 22:00 (4,465 days old) by fltcoils (South Bend, Indiana)        
pump pt3

.

Post# 571875 , Reply# 13   1/27/2012 at 22:01 (4,465 days old) by fltcoils (South Bend, Indiana)        
pump pt4

.

Post# 571876 , Reply# 14   1/27/2012 at 22:02 (4,465 days old) by fltcoils (South Bend, Indiana)        
brake and clutch

.

Post# 571877 , Reply# 15   1/27/2012 at 22:03 (4,465 days old) by fltcoils (South Bend, Indiana)        
and more

.

Post# 571879 , Reply# 16   1/27/2012 at 22:07 (4,465 days old) by fltcoils (South Bend, Indiana)        
A plug for a favorite cause

bleach dispensor spring

If someone could measure their bleach dispensor spring it would help with picking out a replacement.
spring free length
wire size (diam)
spring coil diam
# of turns

That will help get the right stiffness of spring installed.

Anyone have one they can measure with calipers?

thanks


Post# 571930 , Reply# 17   1/28/2012 at 04:53 (4,464 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)        

goatfarmer's profile picture

It sounds like that ol' Frigidaire has never had it so good!


Post# 571961 , Reply# 18   1/28/2012 at 09:01 (4,464 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
Hello Bill fltcoils

akronman's profile picture

Bill--good to hear from you again. Today I will be buying some brake cleaner/mineral spirits and a brush, I think this project will be a Sunday chore. Over all, this machine is great, thanks again, very well worth the clutch work. I'll keep you posted and I'll ask questions, it's pretty detailed work to re-do--

I have printed out all your attachments, they will be handy and greasy in a day or two---

Thanks again--

Mark

 

 


Post# 571963 , Reply# 19   1/28/2012 at 09:28 (4,464 days old) by wiskybill (Canton, Ohio)        
Spring

From my bleach dispenser

Free length approx .500
Wire dia. approx .080
Coil O.D. approx 1.312
3 turns

Free end at large O.D. is stretched to provide tension to hold it in the cup. It seats on a shoulder in the bottom of the cup.
Small I.D. is such that it sits on the domed top of the agitator nut above the wrench flats.

It looks like the spring you find in the battery cap of a flashlight.


Post# 572036 , Reply# 20   1/28/2012 at 19:14 (4,464 days old) by fltcoils (South Bend, Indiana)        
Many thanks

Thank you so very much.
:)

I can use my springless bleach dispensor now. I will fabricate a spring.

Mark,

I'm still imagining you on the turnpike... did you do the same routine with that nissan and the other machines?

Committment to ones hobby.






Post# 572038 , Reply# 21   1/28/2012 at 19:20 (4,464 days old) by fltcoils (South Bend, Indiana)        
It was a

versa 5dr,

yes?

Golly I'm glad you got home ok.



Post# 572111 , Reply# 22   1/29/2012 at 09:31 (4,463 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
Clutch repair

akronman's profile picture

Bill---That little Nissan has carried home many machines, no problem. Only 2 trips were as long as 4 hours one-way, fortunately.

 

See pics, clutch/brake disassembled. There was not a drop of grease or oil, and pretty darn little dust, it was only in use about 3 loads weekly for 6 months since last clutch work. Nothing looks broken or damaged, I cleaned all in mineral spirits and it's all drying now.

 

Am I just re-doing recent clutch maintenance I'll need to re-do in another six months? Instead of de-glazing the 3 pads, should I buy new? Are they available? Should I reverse them, "new" sides to contact? Will this minor amount of dust require cleaning routinely? This is pretty much my most fun machine, but something tells me I shouldn't have to do this chore all that routinely. Advice?

 

The spring holder was set on the second to highest tension, should I reassemble one notch higher or lower?

 

Check out all the pics. I have not yet "burnt off" the glazing, waiting on that until I hear more advice.

 

And the brakes almost never worked except one or two spins immediately after "burnishing" thm by holding the tub in place during 45 seconds of spin before letting go and letting it get up to speed. But the clutch worked until about a month ago, then got worse til almost every spin stopped. I love the machine and I like repair projects, just hoping to figure how to get it to last a few years in- between clutch work.

 


Post# 572112 , Reply# 23   1/29/2012 at 09:32 (4,463 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
more

akronman's profile picture

more


Post# 572113 , Reply# 24   1/29/2012 at 09:33 (4,463 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
more

akronman's profile picture

more


Post# 572114 , Reply# 25   1/29/2012 at 09:35 (4,463 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
more

akronman's profile picture

and I checked and wiped the 4 screw brake surface on the bottom of the cast tub base assembly, clean and bone dry, shiny, minor dust towards the interior, not on the mating surface. I'll happily just leave it on if that's ok.


Post# 572136 , Reply# 26   1/29/2012 at 12:35 (4,463 days old) by philr (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture

About the bleach dispenser springs, mine is also missing and I'd like to know how it holds to the dispenser? I can't figure that on mine! I think the former owner of my washer simply kept using it with a bouncing dispenser and it may have damaged the area where the spring should be...

 

If anyone has a 1-18 bleach dispenser with a spring for sale, please contact me!

 

Edit, I took a picture and it's not as damaged as I thought it was! So maybe a spring would still hold there?


Post# 572162 , Reply# 27   1/29/2012 at 14:07 (4,463 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
That clutch

joelippard's profile picture

is dirty!  Everything I see there in those photos needs a thorough cleaning.  While you have this apart let's be sure that you do it right because it is not a chore that needs frequent attention by any means.  I really don't think you needs new pads, and to turn them over will only increase the applied tension.  Clean the pads by giving them a light rub over some fine sandpaper, a quick soak in the mineral spirits and let them air dry while you clean the rest of it.  Be sure you get all of that grime off of those tension washers, and the like of the parts too.  Clean is the name of this game.  When you reassemble put the tensioner on the middle position which is the stock position.  This should resolve your issues, otherwise, disasemble again and drop it down to the next lowest position, further decreasing the tension.  I do think when you get it clean it should be fine in the stock position.


Post# 572544 , Reply# 28   1/30/2012 at 23:02 (4,462 days old) by fltcoils (South Bend, Indiana)        
clean, lube

When I took the clutch apart last summer it was black with oil and grease. I was fairly successful at getting all the gook off of the brake cam and out of the linings, but it was mostly an experiment. It took 3 or 4 soakings in a can of acetone, brass bristle brushing, wiping and then baking with a pencil torch to get most of the oil out of the linings.

Are the linings cracked, warped or delaminating at all? They look ok but I can't tell this from the pics. To clean I'd use acetone or ethyl not mineral spirits, but that's my preference. However if you want new linings I think Larry at Modern Parts in Parma (216-661-6966) might have them. I bought some linings from him last summer. You are closer to him than me, but if you want them email me etc.

I am concerned that the center bushing in the clutch is rusty. So one thing I'd suggest is getting a good smooth rust free surface on the bushing, emory cloth, and the mating surface on the shaft. Same for the end of the shaft where the brake cam slides onto the spline. If the thing hangs up from rust that might do what you see.

Lube: I'd wipe one drop of mobile 1 on each of those areas. (one puts a drop on a 1" sq piece of cotton cloth, then wipes the surface with the cloth)

I'd also put a bit of lube grease, a tiny bit on the ramps of the cam. Make sure that the cam also can glide smoothly up and down the spline on the end of the shaft. 1 drop here as well.

I think the clutch plate, cluth linings and brake linings look ok. RickR had some clutches last year, but water coming down the shaft and into the clutch could sieze this up again.


Post# 572639 , Reply# 29   1/31/2012 at 09:59 (4,461 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
Thanks Bill

akronman's profile picture

Bill--many thanks, I'll get to it soon and post all results-------Once we solve this problem, that washer will return to being my favorite--

Mark

 


Post# 572835 , Reply# 30   2/1/2012 at 09:19 (4,460 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
1-18 Clutch re-do

akronman's profile picture

Last night I combined everyone's advice, thank you all. It takes quite a wing-span to ratchet the nut below the tub at the same time you're holding the agitator post from the top of the machine, a couple arm bruises are the result. Re-cleaned everything, barely a new speck of dirt. All brake disks and clutch disks re-sanded, installed in exact manner as removed, not turned over. TINY lithium grease on the ramped cams, minor emery cloth on shaft and inside the bearing, followed by one drop of turbine oil on each. Spring tension set at center markings. It's back on the 1-18, but I need another evening for reassembly of other parts before testing, I'll keep you posted. I currently have the cabinet removed, but have now figured out how to remove the clutch and do all such work from the front only, learning curve seems to work on me. Once you get the hang of it, it's not a bad job to clean and rebuild, but the proof will be in the spin---


Post# 573017 , Reply# 31   2/1/2012 at 23:24 (4,460 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
working

akronman's profile picture

Bill fltcoils-----JoeLippard-------John Combo--THANK YOU GUYS! fully reassembled, first load of clothes was medium size batch of towels, she kicked right into spin with no problem, all seems well. Braking is a bit better than before (Which was nonexistent.) I think brakes have to do with how far up the shaft I tighten that 1-3/16 nut, pushing the entire assembly against the brake plate, whereas clutch/spin has to do with the super-clean interior of the entire assembly.

Read just above for the minor lube I did, and medium tension on the spring, one load done and all looks well.

 

I have one WP/KM, one Maytag, one Filter-flo, one Norge, and this one 1-18. Its entire operation and excellence in washing makes it the only brand so far where I'd make space for a second washer, just fun and loud and unique operation.

 

THANK YOU

Mark

 

 




This post was last edited 02/01/2012 at 23:49
Post# 573050 , Reply# 32   2/2/2012 at 07:36 (4,459 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
FRIGIDARE 1-18 WASHER

combo52's profile picture

Mark congratulations on another successful rebuild, there is just no stopping good old Midwest common sense and determination.

 

The Frigidaire despite a few minor short comings is one of the machines that I will always keep in my daily laundry line up. You will enjoy this washer more and more as you continue to use it.


Post# 573074 , Reply# 33   2/2/2012 at 11:20 (4,459 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
"good old Midwest common sense and determination"

akronman's profile picture

John--you may be right! I had that clutch/brake assembly off the machine 3 times in a week, the second time it wasn't budging even with a buddy working a wrench in the tub while I was below with a ratchet on that inch and 3/16 damn nut. It got late and he headed home--apparently his one washer is more important than my 9th??

SO--how to do it alone? I put that ratchet and socket on the nut beneath the spin cams, wedged a 2x4 underneath it on top of the snubber pan, then hammered in a small wedge of wood between the 2x4 and the ratchet head. It held VERY tightly and one small(ish) bang with a hammer on the wrench in the tub got me loosened up!

 

I shudda took a picture!


Post# 573167 , Reply# 34   2/2/2012 at 21:45 (4,459 days old) by fltcoils (South Bend, Indiana)        
The nut comes off with finger tension

Well done,

I'm so glad you got it working.

Did I understand correctly, the nut was hard to remove? How is it now? It should come off with finger tension. It sounds like perhaps something was stuck.

The mechanism uses the brake cam/spin roll stop to lock the nut from turning. One lifts up on the spin roll stop (btm half of brake cam), enough to disengage the nut from the 1/16" inset it falls into, and then turns the nut freely with fingers.

(ref: Reply# 9 diagram)



Post# 573266 , Reply# 35   2/3/2012 at 08:23 (4,458 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
finger tension

akronman's profile picture

Bill---It is NOW on with finger tension, this last time when everything works(except the brake.) Previously, I had tightened it to hopefully get more braking, that's when it jammed and I did the creative racheting.

 

I have only run 2 loads but so far perfect spins and no brake. It's not a new machine, I can live with that and enjoy.

Thanks for your help--

Mark


Post# 573280 , Reply# 36   2/3/2012 at 10:12 (4,458 days old) by garyl ()        
Clutch and Brake

Mineral spirits can leave an oily film. I used spray brake cleaner. It works great. The brake cam may have been sticking. It doesn't come with any lube, but if you want to lube it (not a bad idea) grease or oil is probably the wrong stuff. Spray dry silicone lube should work great, but not get on other parts or gum up with heat and age. Graphite should also work good. I used to give the metal clutch disk a light sanding with emery cloth when I rebuilt a clutch. It is sort of like deglazing, turning, a car brake disk. One problem I had was I would get a machine with a shattered metal clutch disk, and the motor overload would trip as soon as it would go into a spin.

Post# 573391 , Reply# 37   2/3/2012 at 18:40 (4,458 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
FRIGIDARE 1-18 WASHER CLUTCH AND BRAKE ASSEMBLY

combo52's profile picture

Indeed brake cleaner is the thing to use and I would probably NOT use any lubricants at all in the clutch or this machines mechanism.



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