PS, I love you...the Kenmore 80 with PentaSwirl

I am sooooo glad to see someone else but me is happy with a black panel machine!! Waaahooie! :-)

Ok, here's what has crossed my mind in reading this (I actually waited as I saw the first few pics and wanted to respond instant pronto but wanted to wait for you to get all your pics up).

First, this is indeed a '78 model. The model numbers gained a digit in between the decade and year digits in 1974 to describe a few characteristics of the machine. 1 = 24-inch, 2 = 29-inch, 3 = 29 suds model, 4 = portable, and 5 = 24-inch suds. So, 110.728 is a 1978 29-inch model. The 801 means this is a white first level 80 series, and the 10 says the machine is a second edition (something was revised somewhere) with the first edition being 00.

On the water level knob - these are soft plastic, and yeah, you could probably cut it off with bolt cutters or something big like that midway into the finger indentations before the switch shaft, at least enough to get the pressure switch out of the console. I have had this happen to me too. I think it's why later pressure switches in the early 80s went to a plastic shaft that won't rust. If the pressure switch works, I'd leave well enough alone (though it would bother me until I got it off I have a feeling though). New replacements are out there, but when the console styling was revised in 1981 and the knobs gained the little hockey stick addition to the pointer, the older knobs were discontinued in favor of these very similar ones. I have ten billion of these if you want one. Well, I have close to that many....

The timer is up there as one of the most widely used timers in all of washer-land. This one, the Lady K's of the era timer with the second rinse, and the lower level without the soak were three timers in production and use for over 10 years and were in countless millions of machines. There are a few on ebay right now, some new, some not. I've bought them for as little as 12 bucks. The part nubmer is 376008 if you want a CCA/Singer timer, or 376011 if you want Mallory. I don't like Mallory timers myself, they get a lot of dead spots seemingly sooner than CCA, and they sound like tin cans. The universal replacement is 378133, which is a CCA design, and still available from WP believe it or not. This timer requires a jumper wire to be spliced in to the harness to get spray rinses. I don't know if Midwest would rebuild your timer, but they certainly have done many of these in the past. You may want to open it up and clean the contacts. One of them sounds stuck together - the one for the timer motor?

Getting the pointer section off may be a challenge, but it will eventually pop. Put your fingers under the pointer evenly around the dial, place your knuckles on the console and your thumbs on the timer shaft. I have made dents in my finger tips doing this, but it should eventually work. Be careful not to rub the gold paint off - it IS possible.

One the console top - I have a SURPRISE solution...see if you can find some medium brown 3M woodgrain contact paper. I used an entire roll of that recovering bunches of these. It covers scratches, sun fading, stains, whatever and makes them PERFECT. The top has to be pristine clean or the contact paper will outline the dirt. Take off the end caps so you can get to the ends of the panel, and it will look like new. I used to LOVE doing that, and the color would be a near dead match to an un-repaired dryer console of the same design.

I have never polished the black - I am interested to see what you get with that. Don't use a polish with a lot of cleaners as the black paint itself and the white and gold on top of it can come off.

If you want to bail on this entire console, LOTS of places used to have a stache of these hanging around. Some of surely tossed them by now, I know others still have them sitting around. Get one with the right number of pins in the wiring harness block that mates at the corner of the top and you can put any console on there you want (just be sure a standard capacity pressure switch isn't in the new console or you may have some unexpected results). You could also harvest a replacement timer this way - just be sure it has a pre-soak and no big gap between Normal and Perm. Those with the gap were early 76/77 models but were capable of a second rinse but were unwired in models with the giant OFF.

That's probably enough for now? Let me know how I can help!

Gordon


Forum Topics & Rules Manuals & Literature	New users Click-here to sign-up

Post# 571292 1/25/2012 at 21:06 (4,466 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes Here are some preliminary shots of the new acquisition. It's model number 110.72880110. And, it's handsome! It's been outside, though, and the top is shot (no big deal, I can redo that). The panel will polish up nicely after remediating a small ding in the panel. The real booger is that the water level switch knob is totally stuck on there but good, as is the pointer for the timer (which, I assume, just pulls off the shaft?). I need to get the timer out, because it's brain-dead. You can't shut the machine off--it runs from the moment you plug it into the outlet. Push or pull, to no avail--it runs forever! Can Midwest still work with these types of timers? Moreover, if I have to break the knobs off, is there any hope of finding a replacement? I'll try soaking them with some lubricant first.

Post# 571293 , Reply# 1 1/25/2012 at 21:07 (4,466 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Left side...* ...close-up, including incorrigible knob:

Post# 571294 , Reply# 2 1/25/2012 at 21:08 (4,466 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Right side...* ...with water temperatures:

Post# 571298 , Reply# 3 1/25/2012 at 21:10 (4,466 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Obligatory money shot* What a pretty agitator! It runs so smoothly, too. It just runs forever. Also, when passing the portion for spin, it disengages the agitator but just makes a loud buzzing, and doesn't spin. I suspect either a tired wig-wag on the spin cam, or collateral brain-damage from the timer. I really want to save this machine because it's just simply frigging stunning. The inside is pretty, the mechanicals gleam, the cabinet just needs wax on the acrylic part, and the porcelain GLEAMS and feels like butter. Maybe I need to find a new control panel assembly altogether? Or can she be brought back from the realm of dementia?

Post# 571299 , Reply# 4 1/25/2012 at 21:14 (4,466 days old) by washerlover (The Big Island, Hawai�i)
Checkrate/Likes So this is a '72 model? Still learning how to read the model numbers... And LOVE the PentaSwirl agitator! So happy you found something to add to your collection! (I'm sure those dials are filled with Arizona desert dust crud! :))

Post# 571300 , Reply# 5 1/25/2012 at 21:17 (4,466 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)
Checkrate/Likes YES.....Oh the beauty of that Penta-Swirl........I have got to get me one of these....

Post# 571304 , Reply# 6 1/25/2012 at 21:20 (4,466 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *78 maybe?* Todd, I think on some years they did xyx, where xx makes the model year, so maybe a '78? Not sure. Oh Gordon, may I pick your awesome and encyclopedic knowledge? :-) Yes, this machine bears an annoying vibe of déjà vu to the ones we've wagged home from the Glendale yard, which typically include everything you already know and hate about difficult restorations, plus control panels that are toast and/or have all their knobs super-glued on by years in the elements. The only thing funnier than the analysis so far was that it filled-up the spare well in my Jeep with water. Filled. It. Up. Apparently there was a little water left in the tub. This machine was the kin to the dryer my grandmother had, and I love the style of the control panel on these--plus that healthy large capacity. Hers had a DA in it, but the PS is a pleasant surprise. Can't wait to try it out!

Post# 571310 , Reply# 7 1/25/2012 at 21:35 (4,466 days old) by washerlover (The Big Island, Hawai�i)
Checkrate/Likes Hey Nate, thanks for the explanation...I don't think that machine looks like a '72, but just want to be sure. Oh, the "Glendale Yard" -- when I lived in Phoenix I tromped thru that place a few times and though most of the stuff is "newer", I did find a mid 70s Wards Signature machine there and still have the '64 Kenmore set I bought in their showroom for my 40th b'day some seven years ago...

Post# 571343 , Reply# 8 1/25/2012 at 22:48 (4,465 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC)
Checkrate/Likes *VERY very cool Nate...* I am sooooo glad to see someone else but me is happy with a black panel machine!! Waaahooie! :-) Ok, here's what has crossed my mind in reading this (I actually waited as I saw the first few pics and wanted to respond instant pronto but wanted to wait for you to get all your pics up). First, this is indeed a '78 model. The model numbers gained a digit in between the decade and year digits in 1974 to describe a few characteristics of the machine. 1 = 24-inch, 2 = 29-inch, 3 = 29 suds model, 4 = portable, and 5 = 24-inch suds. So, 110.728 is a 1978 29-inch model. The 801 means this is a white first level 80 series, and the 10 says the machine is a second edition (something was revised somewhere) with the first edition being 00. On the water level knob - these are soft plastic, and yeah, you could probably cut it off with bolt cutters or something big like that midway into the finger indentations before the switch shaft, at least enough to get the pressure switch out of the console. I have had this happen to me too. I think it's why later pressure switches in the early 80s went to a plastic shaft that won't rust. If the pressure switch works, I'd leave well enough alone (though it would bother me until I got it off I have a feeling though). New replacements are out there, but when the console styling was revised in 1981 and the knobs gained the little hockey stick addition to the pointer, the older knobs were discontinued in favor of these very similar ones. I have ten billion of these if you want one. Well, I have close to that many.... The timer is up there as one of the most widely used timers in all of washer-land. This one, the Lady K's of the era timer with the second rinse, and the lower level without the soak were three timers in production and use for over 10 years and were in countless millions of machines. There are a few on ebay right now, some new, some not. I've bought them for as little as 12 bucks. The part nubmer is 376008 if you want a CCA/Singer timer, or 376011 if you want Mallory. I don't like Mallory timers myself, they get a lot of dead spots seemingly sooner than CCA, and they sound like tin cans. The universal replacement is 378133, which is a CCA design, and still available from WP believe it or not. This timer requires a jumper wire to be spliced in to the harness to get spray rinses. I don't know if Midwest would rebuild your timer, but they certainly have done many of these in the past. You may want to open it up and clean the contacts. One of them sounds stuck together - the one for the timer motor? Getting the pointer section off may be a challenge, but it will eventually pop. Put your fingers under the pointer evenly around the dial, place your knuckles on the console and your thumbs on the timer shaft. I have made dents in my finger tips doing this, but it should eventually work. Be careful not to rub the gold paint off - it IS possible. One the console top - I have a SURPRISE solution...see if you can find some medium brown 3M woodgrain contact paper. I used an entire roll of that recovering bunches of these. It covers scratches, sun fading, stains, whatever and makes them PERFECT. The top has to be pristine clean or the contact paper will outline the dirt. Take off the end caps so you can get to the ends of the panel, and it will look like new. I used to LOVE doing that, and the color would be a near dead match to an un-repaired dryer console of the same design. I have never polished the black - I am interested to see what you get with that. Don't use a polish with a lot of cleaners as the black paint itself and the white and gold on top of it can come off. If you want to bail on this entire console, LOTS of places used to have a stache of these hanging around. Some of surely tossed them by now, I know others still have them sitting around. Get one with the right number of pins in the wiring harness block that mates at the corner of the top and you can put any console on there you want (just be sure a standard capacity pressure switch isn't in the new console or you may have some unexpected results). You could also harvest a replacement timer this way - just be sure it has a pre-soak and no big gap between Normal and Perm. Those with the gap were early 76/77 models but were capable of a second rinse but were unwired in models with the giant OFF. That's probably enough for now? Let me know how I can help! Gordon

Post# 571392 , Reply# 10 1/26/2012 at 06:37 (4,465 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)
Checkrate/Likes *Loud Buzzing* Sounds like the OOB switch may be engaged! Malcolm

Post# 571648 , Reply# 14 1/26/2012 at 21:53 (4,465 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Puzzler* Well, further investigation shows all switches intact and not welded, and the off/on slide works fine and separates/closes the furthest contact appropriately. We're stumped! I found that it does in fact spin, but the motor runs on high speed all the time, the timer ignores the "off" segments on the dial, disregards the push/pull to stop/start, and it also disregards the water level. It just starts agitating in the wash segments...makes me wonder if the Dry Agitate switch is shorted or funky? The new timer may help answer these questions...unless someone's managed to use the wrong wiring harness or grossly miswire this machine, we can't figure it out. But the harness looks undisturbed. I'm guessing it's just pure timer lunacy.

Post# 571747 , Reply# 17 1/27/2012 at 12:15 (4,464 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Hi Gordon!* You are so fantastic, thank you so much! The timer is 376011 (ew!). I agree that the Mallory feels like the Geo Metro of timers, so I'm looking forward to the standardized Singer replacement. I'm sure I can jumper anything that needs jumpering if I know where it goes--I can crimp spades like a mofo and solder like a pro :-) Roger and I pored over the terminal block, and it looks just dandy. No fused anything, and all the contacts are crisp on the timer, so that's a really weird one. We had a mental brainstorm session to determine where else something could short and A) not electrocute us, B) not trip a breaker, and C) route current through another utilized run circuit but not down a neutral or other place that would effect the breaker-trip, and we were left scratching our heads. All roads seem to go to the timer, but if not, there's not enough wiring in the machine to worry about it. Worst case, I suppose I could replace the harnesses.

Post# 572432 , Reply# 18 1/30/2012 at 14:55 (4,461 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Update!* Thanks to Roger's ingenuity, a flaky wiring harness interconnect was rectified, and lo, the machine operates sans-insanity. It still has copious hiccups and dead-spots in the timer, so the new timer is still a must-have. BUT, it was able to do a maiden load of laundry--a queen-sized comforter, no less! We wanted to test the capacity, and were well pleased with it. The PentaSwirl handles monster loads with aplomb, but the turnover is wavy and dreamy, like a Maytag. It's an exceedingly quiet machine, even with a standard belt configuration. No leaks, yay! Here are a couple of YouTube videos, one showing the agitation and one showing a lengthy portion of the neutral drain and spin. Thank you so much for your help and mentorship, Gordon, and to everyone for encouraging me through this one. What a satisfying and lovely machine! 1978 Kenmore 80 washing 1978 Kenmore 80 neutral drain and spin

Post# 571356 , Reply# 9 1/25/2012 at 23:43 (4,465 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *YAY!* Yay, Gordon--thank you, thank you, thank you. I'll investigate the replacement timer, and thank you SO much for all the detailed info. May I purchase the pointer section if my fat fingers frag the thing? I tried the multi-pry, and it hairline-cracked. Roger's coming over with PB Blaster tomorrow to see if we can expedite removal, and then I can lightly lithium-grease the shaft to stop this silliness from happening again. Oh, and not keep it out in the blazing sun :-) I'll see how polishing the panel goes, and let you know what I use if the results are good. If not, I'll find her a new head. The rest of the machine is just too pretty to let go. Thank you again--I can't wait to have her up and going!

Post# 571449 , Reply# 11 1/26/2012 at 11:46 (4,465 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Interesting thought* Malcolm, that's an interesting thought; the weird part is that it makes the motor strain when it tries to spin, so something's up. Could be more f'uppery with the timer; could be a separate issue. I'll work my way through it. I have the equivalent-replacement timer on order (how do you jumper that wire harness, Gordon? LOL--we must have our spray rinses!), just in case, and it can go in a drawer if we fix this one. There must at least be a welded contact in there for sure...no sensible reason why the on/off throw of the timer would have no effect.

Post# 571540 , Reply# 12 1/26/2012 at 15:34 (4,465 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)
Checkrate/Likes Nate - I have several copies of the instruction sheet which comes with the 378133 timer. I'll either scan it and post it here, or send you an e-mail with it as an attachment. Unfortunately a wire needs to be inserted into the terminal block which is then jumpered into the spray rinse lead. For some reason the pin for this was moved on the timer between the versions/generations. You'll have to get the wire to add somewhere unless you bought a new timer, which in that case it will come with it. Stay tuned sometime tomorrow or over the weekend for the scan! Gordon

Post# 571544 , Reply# 13 1/26/2012 at 15:46 (4,465 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)
Checkrate/Likes *Oh yeah, I forgot something...* About the loud buzzing - I suspect not the OOB relay, but I'd bet it's the spin solenoid on the control magnet (wig wag). If the timer is not properly turning itself and other things off, it may be leaving the solenoid energized. Some of the noise that people often describe as "quintessential" with Belt-drives are the noises the solenoid makes when it engages agitate and spin, especially spin. When the plunger quits moving in the solenoid after spin action stops, it probably sits there and is vibrating around, making all kinda of racket. My guess anyway. There is actually a series of things that happen when a belt-drive completes a cycle. In later timers, there are sequential but rapid cam clicks at the end of the Normal cycle that accentuate this. This generation timer seems to click about three times at cycle end - first to cut the power to the spin solenoid, then to the motor (the motor should stay on for a second or so after spin is disengaged to make sure the spin cam bar has enough momentum to get back to its stationary position). The final click advances the timer one increment into the OFF section. When you can get the timer out of the console, it would be interesting to see if cams are broken or distorted (I would not put it past desert heat to have slightly deformed a cam) or if the off-slide is jammed. Gordon

Post# 571658 , Reply# 15 1/26/2012 at 22:48 (4,464 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Oh, and!* In disassembling the agitator, we found that this one does have the extension--if you pull the top cap and neck, you see where the old and familiar "PentaSwirl" medallion would have gone. Neat!! Now, to hunt for the dispenser!

Post# 571662 , Reply# 16 1/26/2012 at 23:03 (4,464 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC)
Checkrate/Likes *A puzzler indeed* Nate - Something in the timer or quick-disconnect block sounds fused. The same part that is causing the pressure switch to be ignored is what is causing the off-sections to be ignored and the motor to run at high speed in cycles that call for low. I'm wondering if this machine suffered a lightning strike... Have you checked the quick disconnect block to see if it has melted allowing terminals to touch? I think you're right though - a new timer ought to correct all of this provided the issue isn't in the wiring. I had a machine once in which the motor run circuit in the pressure switch stayed satisfied all the time, so the machine would agitate while filling, but I do not recall it continuing into the next cycle, etc. What part number is on the timer? Did the timer show any signs of having been opened before? That would be fascinating to find that the wrong timer was installed, or the wrong harness. I have your timer install instructions. Be on the lookout tomorrow! Gordon

Post# 572468 , Reply# 19 1/30/2012 at 16:56 (4,461 days old) by aldspinboy (Philadelphia, Pa)
Checkrate/Likes Nate the washer is coming along soo good. The video is great Gordon talked about the long drain in the newer models before. I dont no or forgot when they started that.. with the older models it's like, one and a half to two min worth of draining. The Penta-Swirl really does swirl them in with a large load I see. I saw only one older video with no clothes and a med water level. It seems much softer action then a Roto-Swirl. I have sort of the same model you have at my dad's place. The washer will be there for some time not ready for it yet. Good luck on the improvements. Here is the one I got at dads house. Darren k.

Post# 572469 , Reply# 20 1/30/2012 at 16:57 (4,461 days old) by aldspinboy (Philadelphia, Pa)
Checkrate/Likes Pic 2. Tub.

Post# 572488 , Reply# 21 1/30/2012 at 18:51 (4,461 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC)
Checkrate/Likes *Nate and Darren!* How cool is that!? I think we each have one of the same model. Darren's could be a '77 but the one I have has the same model number as Nate's. Even if yours is a '77 Darren, its a clone visually. I'm thinking mine needs a resto and a coming out party to honor your machine Nate. For a desert machine Nate, that machine is working pretty well! How fun! It has great acceleration, I don't hear much from the basket drive pulley (which is good), and the PS was really moving the flag around. I think she surely deserves that new timer! About the long neutral drain - they are 4 minutes long, yes, on purpose. The machine probably takes just under 2 minutes to drain (mine take about 1:50 to 1:55), so it sits there for two minutes, which seems like an eternity, doing nothing. This is due to the large capacity machines which when used with tall standpipe drains, can take more than 2 minutes to empty. We can't have the machine trying to spin partially full...water will sometimes flow into the airdome with great determination and flip the pressure switch, causing the circuit to the spin solenoid to be interrupted. This is a less than enjoyable scene... So, we get treated to four minutes of woo-wooing to save wear and tear on the belt, clutch, etc. I wish you continued success Nate! Gordon

Post# 572496 , Reply# 22 1/30/2012 at 19:09 (4,461 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *Fabuloso!* So when you goin' to keek out the Warts/Norsche, mi amigo?

Post# 572546 , Reply# 23 1/30/2012 at 23:19 (4,460 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Warge to Kenmore* Just as soon as I can wag it to your house, butter-kitten :-)

Post# 572560 , Reply# 24 1/31/2012 at 01:23 (4,460 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)
Checkrate/Likes *LOL!* OK, this calls for a post that's long overdue, but I'll have to start a new thread for it.