Thread Number: 39146
Why are plastic gears so bad? |
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Post# 580360 , Reply# 1   3/4/2012 at 20:15 (4,432 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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To my knowledge the Plastic Gears are not usually the problem with Norge Transmissions. That said GE never had any plastic gears in their transmissions. All MT automatics from the AMP through the Helical drive and the Helical drive washers with the orbital transmission all had at least one Plastic gear. And all 100 million+ WP DD washers had one plastic gear in their transmissions.
That said I can not recall ever seeing a broken plastic gear in any Automatic Washer. The later Norges usually had top bearing and seal problems and often we replaced the transmission along with the top bearing and seal, if you claimed the transmission was bad you got the other parts free from MT if the machine was under the 5 or in some cases 10 year transmission warranty. |
Post# 580361 , Reply# 2   3/4/2012 at 20:19 (4,432 days old) by qualin (Canada)   |   | |
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For me, in my personal opinion, gears should only be cut from steel. Not from aluminum and certainly not from plastic. Would you buy a car if it had plastic gears in the transmission? Plastic does not handle friction very well at all. |
Post# 580362 , Reply# 3   3/4/2012 at 20:23 (4,432 days old) by norgechef (Saint George New Brunswick )   |   | |
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Well if plastic gears isnt the problem than what is the problem with the Norgetag/Performa transmissions dependability? |
Post# 580388 , Reply# 5   3/4/2012 at 22:02 (4,432 days old) by norgechef (Saint George New Brunswick )   |   | |
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Nylon is a kind of fabric..... |
Post# 580398 , Reply# 6   3/4/2012 at 23:00 (4,432 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))   |   | |
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Chevrolet in the mid 70s put a plastic gear in their transmissions, the governor drive IINM. A lady where I worked had had her transmission replaced 4 times in 2 years because of that. She was VERY dissatisfied because each time the car became disabled.
Let's say when discussing gears that "plastic" is just the opposite of metal, what gears should be made of in anything intended to last. There are countless plastics each with their own characteristics but in a gear train none can live up to the performance of machined steel. |
Post# 580415 , Reply# 7   3/5/2012 at 02:12 (4,431 days old) by dj-gabriele ()   |   | |
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Nylon is just a brand name for a kind of polyammide polymer, one of the millions kind of plastic! So Qualin is all but wrong. |
Post# 580448 , Reply# 10   3/5/2012 at 07:43 (4,431 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Usually when a critical part is changed to plastic when it formally was metal in a well designed and built product it increases the durability of the product. Plastic parts are one of the main reasons why an automatic washer can now last upwards of thirty years [ late 70s-now ]compared to washers of the 1950s and into the early 1960s that had a hard time lasting 10-15 years.
The plastic pinion gear that EVERY MT automatic ever built had may have been used partly for noise reasons, but remember that it was at the bottom of the gear case where any metal particles would normally collect and I dought that a steel gear would have even lasted as long. |
Post# 580527 , Reply# 12   3/5/2012 at 13:42 (4,431 days old) by magicchef ()   |   | |
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So what your saying is performa machines will last as long as you don't overload them? |
Post# 580544 , Reply# 13   3/5/2012 at 14:40 (4,431 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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Any machine has the chance to last as long as it is treated well, not overloaded, or worked to death....but many variables can cause any machine to bite the dust quicker than expected...
for many applications its true plastic in certain machines(food processors, VCR, DVD, Mixers)which can crack easily, and then theres these Nylon type that are claimed to be stronger than steel....if it wasn't gonna hold up, these gears would have failed in weeks... also, this was from a time when MT thoroughly tested their products before it went into production......how many of these so-called plastic gears have you heard fail?.... |
Post# 580553 , Reply# 14   3/5/2012 at 14:57 (4,431 days old) by macboy91si (Frankfort, KY)   |   | |
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Most machine applications use NYLON not PLASTIC. Nylon is much more durable and can withstand much more environmental stress. Nylon/fibre gears are commonplace and have been for years in many machine applications. The gears have little to no issue coping with wear and lubricant and are generally no less superior than their metal part for their application. I have mainly seen them used to reduce mesh noise, they also do not produce shavings that can destroy other gears and seals.
A multitude of GM vehicles and others have also used these fiber/nylon gears in their timing chain systems for years. Personally I have seen the metal components fail (chain, tensioners, guides) before these "plastic" gears.\
I've heard people moan and groan about plastic use in things forever. In cars and appliances. In cars it's usually the same people that don't understand EFI or any other modern automotive concepts, I'd wager it's the same in the appliance world. A washer with a poor reliability bites the dust, it must of course be because it's cheap plastic.
The answer is that it is everyone's responsibility to analyze the information in front of them in a non-biased manner and come to your own conclusion. Sensationalism never got anything solved
There is no substitute for reasoning and deduction.
-Tim |
Post# 580573 , Reply# 15   3/5/2012 at 15:41 (4,431 days old) by mayfan69 (Brisbane Queensland Australia)   |   | |
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I have to agree with those above, especially regarding the nylon pinion gear in the Maytag pitman drive transmissions.
I have seen first hand the wear and tear a metal pinion can do in a transmission, when i pulled apart a Borg Warner gearbox used in earlier Simpson machines here in Australia. The metal pinion gear had worn all the way down. This was subsequently changed to the nylon pinion gear for later models and i still have 2 of those machines in my collection....still going strong after 30+ years. I have not seen this in any of the Maytags or Wilkins Servis machines (that use the same mechanicals as the Maytags) that i have in my collection. |
Post# 580581 , Reply# 16   3/5/2012 at 16:04 (4,431 days old) by runematic (southcentral pa)   |   | |
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As much as I'd love to say that metal always beats out polymers, on the Norgetag trannies I can't say that. The nylon gears are very durable. There is an clutch-type spring in these trannies that ends up breaking, not the gears. The Performa washers do not have an off balance switch. The transmission slows down the spin to satisfy the off-balance situation. These are the times you would find the wash not spun out. It's just like the dependable care being shut off when off balance. Redistribute and start the spin again.
As far as these washers going off balance badly, it is usually due to a worn snubber. Sometimes the bases of these washers were bad as well and that can lead to a bad off balance situation. Some of these washers had foam blocks mounted on the cabinet for the tub to hit. Maytag found that if the blocks were removed, the tub could travel further and not knock the cabinet and alert the owner of an out-of-balance spin. That seemed to work, too. This resulted in less off-balance complaints.
To change the snubber you will need a tool to release the brake. The spring is under a few hundred pounds of pressure. To do it without the proper tools can result in injury.
We have probably over 100 performas and atlanti in the warehouse. We are now starting to go through them and find the nicest ones and change snubbers, clean out the gunk and get them ready for resale. I was never a big fan when they were new, but find that folks love the large tub size and quietness of the washers. This post was last edited 03/05/2012 at 16:44 |
Post# 580588 , Reply# 17   3/5/2012 at 16:17 (4,431 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )   |   | |
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Unimatic...and see how a transmission is SUPPOSED to be built!! No Plastic!!! |
Post# 580597 , Reply# 19   3/5/2012 at 16:56 (4,431 days old) by runematic (southcentral pa)   |   | |
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I used arm in my post. My foggy brain meant clutch spring. I corrected my earlier post. I'm not sure why the spring breaks, but it seems to happen.
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Post# 580655 , Reply# 20   3/5/2012 at 22:49 (4,431 days old) by magicchef ()   |   | |
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So does the clutch spring usually brake in the spin or agitate phase of the cycle? |