Thread Number: 39659
Best built modern washer?
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Post# 587538   4/6/2012 at 11:55 (4,396 days old) by k1rod (Scottsdale, AZ)        

Some say Miele although I have heard that it can be difficult to get parts for them. Some say Speed Queen still makes machines with "old school" quality. I have heard a few say that if you buy a "commercial machine" (Maytag perhaps) like those intended for on premises laundry that you can still buy quality like you used to be able to.

I guess the gist of my questions is this: "Are any machines being manufactured today that are built with the quality of construction and will have the durability of the old Maytags?" It seems most modern machines are built with a 5 year lifespan in mind and I am not interested in that.





Post# 587546 , Reply# 1   4/6/2012 at 13:22 (4,396 days old) by glenfieldmathk1 (Glenfield-Leicester-UK)        
Miele, Siemens, Maytag (or Asko), Speed queen etc

yes, there are still many brands that are reliable.
Here in Europe (UK), popular choices are Miele & Siemens for build quality.
AEG is also popular choice, though what they don't say is, unlike Siemens & Miele, they have welded Tubs, so bearings can't be replaced, basically could mean it gets written off after its 5 year guarantee is over.
Maytag professional (ISE, Asko) style washers exist, and sold through John Lewis.
Speed queen seems popular for quality in the US.

Miele- The best for guarantee's - 10 years P+L(parts & Labour) on most, 5 years P+L on a selection.
Siemens - 5 Years P+L, IQ Drive models 10 Years P+L Motor guarantee. (sometimes 10 years P+L as standard as a promotion)
AEG - 5 Years P+L, no special motor guarantees
Maytag (ASKO)- 5 years P+L - only on Swedish built models.
ISE (ASKO)- Unlimited lifetime guarantee - though apparently can't live up to Miele-see a different thread.

Not sure about US market, though at least almost all your washers are still made there:), shows a sign that the US still believes in US mechanical labour. Most in the UK, aren't made in the UK, in-fact no brand makes them here any more.

Hope the Info Helps


Post# 587558 , Reply# 2   4/6/2012 at 14:13 (4,395 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)        

aquarius1984's profile picture
Dont Discount Asko/ISE at all - they are very good quality and get rave reviews from other posters here and across the internet review sites.

I for one would take an ASKO over a Miele, they are getting rather ubiquitous now every member and his dog seems to be gettng one and personally find them rather boring.

ONE member here had ASKO issues 'supposedly' although after his string of brand new machines in which everyone was faulty or damaged or whatever I have come to take whatever he says with a rather large pinch, er mountain of salt.



Post# 587567 , Reply# 3   4/6/2012 at 14:50 (4,395 days old) by NorthernMary (Huddersfield - West Yorkshire)        
i did wonder.....

northernmary's profile picture
" ONE member here had ASKO issues 'supposedly' although after his string of brand new machines in which everyone was faulty or damaged or whatever I have come to take whatever he says with a rather large pinch, er mountain of salt."


aquarius1984

I did wonder how long it would take for you to start slagging other people off!! Once you start your cannot help yourself! Suggest you keep your suggestions to yourself! Crawl back under your stone where you came from! Thought we came on this site to share pics and be a group perhaps id be wrong would anyone like to correct me if am wrong ??? Once again you’re out of order and need to be stopped because of your actions! I use to love visiting here and posting and am speaking on behalf of other members I speak to outside of AW they no longer want to post about things because you hijack the threads and offend people ! if this is going to be how it’s going to be then I will no longer be visiting !


Post# 587576 , Reply# 4   4/6/2012 at 15:37 (4,395 days old) by washmeup (scottsdale)        
Miele

washmeup's profile picture
I have a Miele 4842 Washer and a 9802 Dryer and I must say, they are the best built, running modern machines out there! I love them and the washer is almost silent in operation.

Post# 587577 , Reply# 5   4/6/2012 at 15:37 (4,395 days old) by SeamusUK (Dover Kent UK)        
Rob

seamusuk's profile picture
All I will say is get over yourself- if you read the attached thread Asko do appear to have a possible issue with the PCBs on their newer machines- and believe me you dont get a refund out of anyone unless there is a problem......

CLICK HERE TO GO TO SeamusUK's LINK


Post# 587578 , Reply# 6   4/6/2012 at 15:44 (4,395 days old) by SeamusUK (Dover Kent UK)        
And yup Im buying a Miele...

seamusuk's profile picture
This one in fact - £679.99 including a 10 year Parts and Labour guarantee(Miele offer- this month ALL their washers come with this). NOTHING on the market at the moment can come close to that for value!

Mum is having the Insight as an upgrade to her LG.

Seamus


CLICK HERE TO GO TO SeamusUK's LINK


Post# 587579 , Reply# 7   4/6/2012 at 15:48 (4,395 days old) by SeamusUK (Dover Kent UK)        
The Miele Website....

seamusuk's profile picture
Post# 587592 , Reply# 8   4/6/2012 at 16:23 (4,395 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

What about the V-Zugg that Mike has? That seems very well designed & built. Of course, distribution is not world-wide.

I like my Mieles.


Post# 587603 , Reply# 9   4/6/2012 at 17:11 (4,395 days old) by k1rod (Scottsdale, AZ)        

"This one in fact - £679.99 including a 10 year Parts and Labour guarantee(Miele offer- this month ALL their washers come with this). NOTHING on the market at the moment can come close to that for value! "

 

Unfortunately here in the US, we don't receive quite as good an offer.  The warranty here is only 1 year parts and labo(u)r (and can be extended to 2 years if you have a Miele technician do the install) and the cost is about £1130 or $1800USD for a W 4802 Washing machine.  Even at £1130, I'd jump at one in a second if they offered us a 10 year full warranty. 


Post# 587641 , Reply# 10   4/7/2012 at 01:28 (4,395 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

> "Are any machines being manufactured today that are built with the quality of construction and will have the durability of the old Maytags?"

That's a very good question.

One of the things that those old Maytags had going for them is that they were rather simplistic machines in comparison to modern washers.

In other words, they didn't really have any electronic components in them. They consisted of relays, solenoids, switches and point to point wiring. They didn't contain any printed circuit boards and didn't have microprocessors. (At least, not until the 1980's anyway.)

Most people don't think to use a surge protector on their modern washer, even though it really does have a real computer in it. (Actually, a Microcontroller probably, but that still counts.)

Household power is actually quite "Dirty". Eventually, over time, there will be voltage spikes and surges. There may be voltage sags too. All of these can shorten the life of electronic components inside of a machine.

I believe that Speed Queen / Huebsch are one of the last manufacturers left that don't use any electronics in their top loading machines. In the link I'm posting below, you can see the inside of the control panel lacks any kind of printed circuit board, they still use a electromechanical timer to control the machine. This is getting to be rarer and rarer in this modern age, considering that it's cheaper in some ways use a microcontroller.

It's a whole other thread as to electromechanical vs electronic. I'm going to apologize if I cause a flamewar by mentioning that.

Now, in saying this.. it think would take a LOT to destroy an electromechanical machine when it's not running. Even when running, the worst that could happen is that switches could fuse or the motor(s) could burn out. Both of which would be relatively inexpensive to replace.

Here's the thing though, when a manufacturer like Alliance (Who makes Speed Queen) says that they use all metal gears in their transmission, all metal tub construction and triple coated porcelain treated cabinets, (Not painted) like the "Old school" way of doing things, then yes, I would expect the kind of longevity from these machines as the old Maytags.

So, In my humble opinion, there is a very good reason why going "Old School" is sometimes the best and that implementing advances in technology isn't always a good thing.

As a side note, I should mention that I did see Frigidaire front loaders with electromechanical controls, but I'm not sure how much in the way of electronics they actually have.

Now, this post may seem like an anti-electronics rant, but it's not. I think electronics do have a valid place in washing machines. In fact, it seems to me that front loading machines NEED them to be able to wash effectively while also preserving the machine from unbalance problems.

I believe it was one member who mentioned that there is no such thing as a "Commercial Grade" top loading washer, that anything with a commercial label is actually just a consumer machine, but with less cycles and a few modifications to make it friendly for an on premise or coin-op environment. (ie. No fabric softener dispenser, different console, etc.)

I think the best place to start is when a company engineers and builds a machine in such a way where this is what it's primary use would be, in a heavy duty, heavy usage environment, then they "Add a nice panel and a few extra cycles" to make it consumer friendly, this is the right approach.

So far, the forum members who have Speed Queen machines are very happy with them. (At least, to the best of my knowledge.)

That's the problem, it takes time for a machine to really prove itself.

I agree with the other forum members that Miele makes a great machine, by taking the approach of high quality from the start, while still using a lot of technology. With that though, comes a high cost. They're not cheap machines.

There are a lot of other topics I could get into which are unrelated to your first one, but I'll summarize my thinking..

Sometimes the older designs which have been around for a long time are usually also the longest lived and are the most durable, but only because all of the bugs have been worked out by the engineers and they've only had time to polish them.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO qualin's LINK


Post# 587777 , Reply# 11   4/7/2012 at 15:45 (4,394 days old) by Maturasigma ()        
Miele, Bosch, Siemens, Gorenje

Here in Germany is Miele the best, but Gorenje is great too, this washers are solid models and washes perfect and them are high quality products.

Post# 587785 , Reply# 12   4/7/2012 at 16:11 (4,394 days old) by splittub (Europe)        

What about Electrolux group washers (Electrolux, AEG, Zanussi, etc)? How's the build quality of their washers compared to, say, Bosch-Siemens? I know about the dreaded welded tubs, but apart from that?

Post# 587804 , Reply# 13   4/7/2012 at 18:50 (4,394 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)        

ronhic's profile picture
From what I can tell of electrolux machines we get here, many from Thailand, their quality is about the same as Beko. In fact I'll go out on a limb and suggest that pound for pound/ dollar for dollar, Beko machines are better built and better featured than Electrolux/Zanussi....



Post# 587867 , Reply# 14   4/8/2012 at 06:56 (4,394 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Ive said it before and I'll say it again

jetcone's profile picture
Love my SQ' FL's! I have had a commercial Horizon in my apartment for over 10 years and only had to replace a boot because the tenant washed belts with pants and pulled the buckle through the boot and ripped it. That's a machine that goes and goes!

Washmeup- how long does your Miele dryer take to dry a full load? And is it gas or electric? Jon

I agree with what Qualin writes- electronics are here to stay they are actually simpler than mechanicals and so are more durable when properly protected from the elements.





Post# 587945 , Reply# 15   4/8/2012 at 15:00 (4,393 days old) by k1rod (Scottsdale, AZ)        

This has me really leaning towards the Speed Queen. I appreciate the Miele's quality of design and construction (and I would seriously consider buying one) but here in the US, with only a 1 or 2 year warranty, I wouldn't want to take a chance that the control board goes bad in 2 years and I end up with an $800 repair (This has happened). The Speed Queens cost less and are simple enough that there are no $800 repairs possible. Miele is obviously a great machine with pride and quality built into the appliance. But IMHO, if they really want to be a player in the US market, they are going to have to ramp up the warranty to adequately reflect the confidence they should have in their products.

Post# 587954 , Reply# 16   4/8/2012 at 16:20 (4,393 days old) by mrx ()        

Our Miele vented sensor dryer was bought in 1995. It gets very heavy use and it still looks brand new new.

It has never been repaired, never had a single problem!

17 years of flawless service and it looks like it's going to keep going for quite a while yet.

It gets routine maintenence, bit of a vacuum cleaning of the ducts, but no lint seems to accumulate inside the machine (I have looked) so I have never had any reason to do anything other than vacuum the duct coming out of the side of it.

Amazing machine and worth every cent.

Miele's quality, in my experience, is second to none.

They're a bit niche in the USA, but in Europe, they're fairly main stream although absolutely top of the line.

It seems a little silly of their US marketing people not to grant similar levels of waranty cover to their European counterparts. They are absolutely excellent machines and, in general, simply do not go wrong.

Other than that, I would strongly rate European TOL BSH machines i.e. Bosch/Siemens/NEFF.

AEG, I'm not sure about anymore as they're just Electrolux with more bells and whistles wrapped up in a nicer case with loads of stainless steel. They look fantastic, but I don't know if the quality's as good as it used to be. That being said, I have a full height AEG stainless steel frost free fridge and Freezer and they are really nice machines and absolutely stunning designs.

I've also had really good expeirence with De Deitrich (A TOL French brand). Their cooking appliances are amazing. Our induction hob is now about 12 years old and again, looks new, never been serviced, and gets tons of use.

We got a new De Deitrich Double oven recently and it is a really slick appliance too.





Post# 588035 , Reply# 17   4/9/2012 at 05:32 (4,393 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

I agree..

Parts of me wish that Alliance (ie. Makers of Speed Queen) would take one page out of Miele's books and consider adding some models with some more advanced electronics in them, at least providing for more cycle selections and water levels.

Then again, that's if it were a perfect world!


Post# 588045 , Reply# 18   4/9/2012 at 06:48 (4,393 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
I TOTALLY AGREE!

mrb627's profile picture
But IMHO, if they really want to be a player in the US market, they are going to have to ramp up the warranty to adequately reflect the confidence they should have in their products.

Malcolm


Post# 588059 , Reply# 19   4/9/2012 at 08:25 (4,393 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Miele applinaces in the US market

combo52's profile picture

As long as they don't get there service act together I don't think they will ever make significant inroads into the market. While millions of Americans will buy and put up with expensive, difficult to repair and unreliable European cars to receive the benefits of great engineering and performance, the same is just not true with house hold appliances. No amount of service training will ever make Meile appliances cheaper or easier to repair or for that matter as reliable as other main stream makes.

 

To many of us on this site the added expense of Meile appliances is well justified and worth it, after all we are appliances nuts LOL and we should know what we are getting into. But I would NEVER recommend them to a customer that is not willing  to pay large amounts for service and the headaches that getting them repaired requires.

 

This past week I was asked to check over all the kitchen appliances at a very expensive house in Washington DC for a very good customer. They had 5 Sub-Zero refrigeration products and Two Meile DWs all about 10 years old. The house keeper had never been happy with the DWs, she said that she had never seen such a small DW or no so hard to fit dishes into [ she said that they usually had to use both for every good sized meal clean-up ] . She said in spite of several service calls that the left one always took a 1/2 hour longer than the other and neither did as good a job as other DWs that she uses at other clients homes where she works. The owner is not willing to have Meile Factory Service again after many expensive service visits already. Bottom line two new KitchenAids are going in.

 

I am sure that many here on this site could get good results out these DWs, they are very cute with their tiny wash arms and little filters etc. Both have built-in water softeners and hidden controls.


Post# 588307 , Reply# 20   4/10/2012 at 02:09 (4,392 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Out at my workplace we have difficult to repair and somewhat unreliable European transmitters!Just got done fixing one of them!One problem after another-Meanwhile the GE's 40 yrs old,CEMCO,60 yrs old--still work.-and easier to fix.Wouldn't you know it-the fellow that works out here that loves these Euro-transmitters is on leave!Wish he was here-would save it for him.He likes the Engineering-to me too complicated,breaks easily-too complex control system-its less reliable than the equipment its controlling.Auto tuning on these transmitters can no longer be trusted.So--tune them by hand like the older ones.

Post# 588358 , Reply# 21   4/10/2012 at 08:49 (4,392 days old) by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT)        
In engineering

firedome's profile picture
the Cardinal rule for reliability is: Keep It Simple, Stupid! Less means more reliability. There's a reason why NASA rockets with their horrendous complexity have Triple Redundant systems. Speed Queen has the right idea with their simple electro-mechanical controls. Or just as good would be to find a new or little used vintage machine.

Post# 588362 , Reply# 22   4/10/2012 at 08:57 (4,392 days old) by teknikleespekng ()        
Engineering

firedome - my Dad is a retired mechanical engineer and he has *always* used that phrase. One of the main reasons I am going for the Speed Queen FL'er.

Post# 588537 , Reply# 23   4/11/2012 at 01:03 (4,391 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

The"Kiss" rule was also good to use in designing radio stations and equipment--if only more would follow it!

Post# 588621 , Reply# 24   4/11/2012 at 12:09 (4,391 days old) by mikeklondon (London)        
Miele

I have had a few Miele's and all of them have been very good, I have never HAD to replace one yet but have changed them due to moving ect. My ex is still using the 1st one and it is nearly 40 years old. My current one is about 8 years and no problems ( i'll keep my fingers x ) used about 4/5 times a day. I have been looking at new machines as we are planing a refit soon but have looked at whast around I think I'll keep a Miele's they still look like new

Post# 588705 , Reply# 25   4/11/2012 at 23:58 (4,390 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

Hi Mike. Your Mieles look awesome, but models like those just simply don't sell for a decent price here in Canada.

To compare, here's my Huebsch, which is the Canadian version of Speed Queen. It has five cycles and (Six if you count the "Off" selection.) four different wash/rinse temperature combinations...

I don't think you can get any more simple than that!

The knobs, switch and button have a very industrial feel to them, like if I was using a professionally made piece of equipment. I really like that.



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