|Thread Number: 40476
Non-Biological detergents & Colour detergents...
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|Post# 598896   5/25/2012 at 13:15 (365 days old) by thelaundrylab (Hampshire UK)    || |
Hello guys, I was wondering if some one can help me out by understanding the difference between Non-Biological detergents & Colour detergent. I know Non-Biological detergents are use for people who have sensitive skin, but I've also heard this is also safe to use on colours, is this actually true?
So for instance, I have a load of white garments with prints on them, and afraid of using normal detergent on them (in my case Ariel) as the print's will eventually fade. But I also want to keep my whites white... and leaves me with this on going battle on which detergent to use, ie Non Bio or detergents for colours?
What's everyone's opinion & verdict on this?
|Post# 598898 , Reply# 1   5/25/2012 at 13:21 (365 days old) by mrx (Ireland)    || |
Non-Bio detergents are a bit of a UK and Ireland only thing.
Someone had a reaction to some early biological detergent in the 1970s and ever since there has been a claim that biological detergents can cause skin irritations. In reality, I am not sure if that's true anymore as a lot of 'sensitive' detergents on the continent are allergy-safe yet biological.
Non biological detergents are absolutely not any safer for colours, in fact, they might even fade them more quickly as they are totally dependent on surfactants and bleach and do not use enzymes to breakdown stains. The % of bleach in the forumla might even be higher than biological powders.
Colour detergents are biological, they contain no bleach, so your colours will last longer.
In a lot of cases, the colour detergents are actually extremely effective at removing stains. However, over time they will cause your white clothes to seem a bit dull. They're absolutely great for jeans and other coloured clothes though.
|Post# 598933 , Reply# 2   5/25/2012 at 18:27 (364 days old) by Launderess (La Pomme Grande)    || |
Is the absence of enzymes which aid in breaking down organic soils and stains on laundry. These substances per se do not affect colours or interfere with colourfastness of textiles. Chemicals such as bleaches (oxygen or chlorine) and bluing agents are the problem there.
What one finds as "non-bio" will depend upon what is on offer locally. For instance on this side of the pond there are plenty of detergents (usually middle or bottom shelf types, but also some expensive "garage" brands like Linen Wash or similiar products for delicates) that do not contain enzymes but may or may not contain bleaches or bluing/fabric whitening agents. One has to read the label to determine.
Cheer powder detergent for colours sold in the United States at various times contained bluing agents and or enzymes. Today you have to read the packet carefully as some versions do have bluing others do not, most all however contain enzymes.
On the other side of the pond, yes in general "all purpose" detergents that do not contain enzymes (again leaving aside certain products meant for delicates,infants or "green") contain heavier doses of surfactants and bleaches to compensate for the loss of cleaning power via enzymes. Extra doses of bluing agents may be added to give the impression of a cleaner/whiter wash. This is especially true if the product does not contain bleaching agents.
Personally do not see the point of non-enzyme general purpose detergents. We only have to look what our mothers, grand-mothers and such went through to shift organic stains/soils from laundry. Bile soap and other rather odd substances were the only recourse aside from bleaches, and even then traces often still remain.
It is important to remember that so much of what the human body produces (blood, sweat, tears, etc..) is protien based. They also to a degree contain starches and fats. Therefore without something to break down these substances one must subject laundry to a much harsher launderng method than otherwise would be required. The use of enzymes has made much of the "low temperature " washing craze possible. This has become more true as newer variants have been developed that have a much wider range of temperature options such as working in cool or cold water instead of just the narrow range of near body temperature to slightly not (98F to 120F).
|Post# 599056 , Reply# 3   5/26/2012 at 09:44 (364 days old) by mrx (Ireland)    || |
The detergent choices here are as follows:
Powders / Powder Tablets:
Normal Biological - Contains at least one, but usually several enzymes to breakdown stains and oxygen bleach, optical brighteners as well as surfactants. This is by far the most powerful formulation.
Colour - Contains enzymes and surfactants. These also usually contain cellulase to prevent / reduce bobbling. They do not contain bleaches but do contain optical brighteners. They're excellent for coloured clothes.
Non-biological - Contains no enzymes, but contains lots of surfactants and oxygen bleach.
Liquids / Capsules:
Normal Biological - Contains at least one, but usually several enzymes to breakdown stains as well as surfactants and optical brigteners. This is by far the most powerful formulation of liquid.
Colour - Contains at least one, but usually several enzymes to breakdown stains as well as surfactants. These often don't contain optical brightners.
Non-Biological - This is just a detergent based on surfactants and optical brighteners. There are no enzymes.
Wool / Silk products - these often resemble a shampoo i.e. gentle surfactants and fabric care additives to prevent shrinkage / damage to wool / silk.
There are various wash-boosters on the market that vary from a mixture of oxygen bleach, optical brightners and enzymes. These are suitable for brightening whites, removing colour runs, or removing organic stains.
Again, there are a lot of ecological alternatives on the market here. These vary from quite effective products like Ecover, which comes in a full biological version to really weak products that are just surfactant based.
Note on enzyme content: In general the top of the line detergents like Ariel and Persil tend to contain more sophisiticated cocktails of enzymes which is on reason why they tend to be able to shift stains more effectively.
Surf, despite it's new increased price and fragrence-focus, only contains 1 enzyme vs Persil's 4 or 5.
Some store brand detergents area actually pretty excellent formulas too.
|Post# 599059 , Reply# 4   5/26/2012 at 09:54 (364 days old) by labboy (SD, CA)    || |
I always thought that the color products did not have optical brighteners as they contribute to darks fading over time.
Based on MRX's previous post, I went back and looked at my box of (Unilever) Persil Colour powder and Persil Small and Mighty Colour liquid. Sure enough, OBAs in the powder but not the liquid.
Launderess: Any wisdom as to why this is the case?
|Post# 599087 , Reply# 5   5/26/2012 at 15:21 (363 days old) by Launderess (La Pomme Grande)    || |
P&G and most other liquid detergents on this side of the pond contain bluing/fabric whitening agents. Tide, Gain, Cheer (some versions), and so forth all contain the stuff. Cheer is marketed for colours the rest are general purpose however.
The French Ariel "Excel" Gel (Alpine Frachie) in my stash as OBAs. One can tell without looking at the content listings because the product and wash water almost glow from the bluing agents. *LOL*
|Post# 599214 , Reply# 6   5/27/2012 at 06:24 (363 days old) by Mrx (Ireland)    || |
|Post# 600349 , Reply# 7   6/1/2012 at 16:39 (357 days old) by Launderess (La Pomme Grande)    || |
Is that they are designed to make textiles appear "whiter" by cancelling out yellow and or otherwise causing the human eye to see things as brighter.
Depending upon the levels of OBAs present a change in colour can be seen after one or several washes. Happily the flouresent dyes used to give the effect aren't permanent so subsequent laundering without should take things back to where they were.
Off white, ecru, tea coloured, champange and the like linens shouldn't be laundered with bluing agents either. As the OBAs will cause them to eventually start looking "white".
|Post# 601433 , Reply# 8   6/6/2012 at 09:22 (353 days old) by chris74 (Germany)    || |
Detergents which contain enzymes don't have bleach as it would destroy the biological helpers. By the way, bile soap is a traditional additive sold as a liquid over here...
Optical brighteners are added to the colour detergent because it gives an extra cheer up on any coloured item. Not sure what it does to blue jeans or black clothing though...
|Post# 601443 , Reply# 9   6/6/2012 at 10:16 (353 days old) by paulc (edinburgh)    || |
In the UK powdered detergent with enzymes do contain oxygen bleach unless it is stated that it is a dedicated colour detergent. Liquid/Gel detergent do not contain bleaching agents as from what I understand oxygen bleach is difficult to stabalise in liquid form. Products like liquid vanish or Ace have hydrogen peroxide as their bleaching agents. I know in the US you can buy liquids with "bleach alternative" such as Tide and Gain and I presume the "alternative" is hydrogen peroxide. However when I looked on Wisk and All's websites they contain liquid with "oxy", I wonder if one of our US members could tell us does the "oxy" refer to hydrogen peroxide or if it is another form of bleaching agent.
|Post# 601450 , Reply# 10   6/6/2012 at 10:40 (353 days old) by chris74 (Germany)    || |
Are you sure? This may be pretty dangerous... I only know it as an agent to bleach ones hair... German detergents never contain bleach AND enzymes...
|Post# 601452 , Reply# 11   6/6/2012 at 10:44 (353 days old) by Hunter (Colorado)    || |
Don't these detergents "eat" organic fibers, such as wool, silk, cotton, etc.?
They are proteins, yes?
Just curious; last time I bought woolens from woolovers.com/woolovers.co.uk/etc
|Post# 601458 , Reply# 12   6/6/2012 at 11:17 (353 days old) by paulc (edinburgh)    || |
I know Vanish liquid and Ace used hydrogen peroxide as their stain removing agents but Vanish may have changed now. I will look next time I go to the supermarket what the ingredients are now. I did manage to find out that Ariel stain removing liquid has oxygen based bleach so that has confused me a bit. I think we need to call on Laundress, who has a superb knowledge of detergents and their make up.
Hunter, enzyme detergent should not be used on silk or wool but is pretty safe on other fabrics.
|Post# 601466 , Reply# 13   6/6/2012 at 11:37 (353 days old) by Hunter (Colorado)    || |
Gotcha, that makes sense now.
|Post# 601512 , Reply# 14   6/6/2012 at 14:42 (352 days old) by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)    || |
Is Sodium percarbonate, an adduct of sodium carbonate and hydrogen peroxide.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO foraloysius's LINK
|Post# 601548 , Reply# 15   6/6/2012 at 17:05 (352 days old) by paulc (edinburgh)    || |
|Post# 601554 , Reply# 16   6/6/2012 at 17:30 (352 days old) by Launderess (La Pomme Grande)    || |
Are hydrogen peroxide based. With powders (sodium perborate or sodium percarbonate) either borax or sodium carbonate are treated with hydrogen peroxide which is then released in wash water to liberate the oxygen required for bleaching. Liquid hydrogen peroxide, even that sold in brown bottles at chemists can also be used for laundry bleaching/stain removal.
By binding hydrogen peroxide to borax or washing soda it makes a more stable bleaching compound with a longer shelf life. Hydrogen peroxide is famously unstable and will break down into water (amoung other ingredients) pretty quickly if not stored properly/stablising chemicals added.
Another benefit of binding peroxide to alkaline substances is that it increases the bleaching power and can allow that process to take place at lower ambient temps. For instace sodium percarbonate will bleach in cold or cool water, though the process takes longer than with warm or hot.
An old French laundry trick to whiten linens is to add a cup (more or less) of 3% by volume peroxide (the stuff you find at chemists) to a boil wash or while boiling laundry.
Many professionals like pure peroxide (again the stuff that comes from the chemists, but there are stronger formulas available), because it breaks down faster and rinses easily/totally as opposed to the powder forms of oxygen bleach. So if you wanted to whiten something delicate that you didn't wish to subject the thing to multiple rinses...
|Post# 601721 , Reply# 17   6/7/2012 at 09:06 (352 days old) by paulc (edinburgh)    || |
|Post# 601867 , Reply# 18   6/8/2012 at 02:17 (351 days old) by chris74 (Germany)    || |
Of course Persil DOES contain bleach and enzymes but only in powdered formulae. What I really meant was that LIQUID detergent for all fibres (called "Vollwaschmittel" in German) never combine these two ingredients due to destruction of enzymes by bleach.
@ Hunter: If the detergent contains enzymes type cellulase they would destroy clothes over time. It is to "cut off" little fiber threads which otherwise making clothes looking dull...
|Post# 601921 , Reply# 19   6/8/2012 at 10:29 (351 days old) by Hunter (Colorado)    || |
cut of enough threads and you've shredded the clothes ;-)
|Post# 601965 , Reply# 20   6/8/2012 at 14:54 (350 days old) by Launderess (La Pomme Grande)    || |
Methinks the reason so many complain liquid detergents do not remove stains as well as TOL or MOL powders is the absence of bleaches.
Loading detergent with tons of OBAs, surfactants, soaps and enzymes will only get you so far. However some stains simply will not shift totally without some sort of bleach.
|Post# 602111 , Reply# 21   6/9/2012 at 08:56 (350 days old) by chris74 (Germany)    || |
I think they've changed the formula nowadays because perborate is considered equally harmful to the environment as are phosphates so probably it is percarbonate in it. I will ask Henkel, the manufacturer of German Persil...
|Post# 602378 , Reply# 22   6/10/2012 at 13:09 (349 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)    || |
Typical enzymes used in detergents include:
Amylase: effective against starchy stains, e.g. mashed potato.
Cellulase: cleans cotton by stripping away loose fibres; supposed to prevent bobbling.
Lipase: breaks down greasy, oily stains, e.g. sebum, vegetable fats and oils.
Protease: original enzyme, effectively breaks down protein stains: blood, gravy, egg.
Mannanase: supposed to be effective against guar gum an associated gums.
Glycosidase: used in P&G biological detergents. Effective against fruit stains, apparently can be tailored to attack certain stain types: now used instead of amylase.
|Post# 602412 , Reply# 23   6/10/2012 at 16:26 (348 days old) by Launderess (La Pomme Grande)    || |
Long ago switched to sodium percarbonate. The nearly eight or more years old boxes of Persil Sensitive "megapearls" list sodium percarbonate instead of sodium perborate. Not sure if the formula still contains bleaching activator (TAED) or not.
Borates supposedly are bad for aquatic life and have been on the EU's hit list for awhile now. *Think* a directive was passed to limit or ban the stuff within those borders.
|Post# 603192 , Reply# 24   6/13/2012 at 06:51 (346 days old) by chris74 (Germany)    || |
• SODIUM CARBONATE
• SODIUM CARBONATE PEROXIDE
• BENZOLSULFONSÄURE, C10-13-ALKYLDERIVATE, NATRIUMSALZE
• KIESELSÄURE, NATRIUMSALZ
• FETTALKOHOLETHOXYLAT C13-15 7EO
• CARBOXYMETHYLCELLULOSE, NA-SALZ
• SODIUM POLYACRYLATE
• FETTSÄUREN, C16-18-, NATRIUMSALZE
• TETRASODIUM ETIDRONATE
• CP ANIONISCH MOD. ALKYLENGLYKOLPHTHALAT
• BENZYL SALICYLATE
• HEXYL CINNAMAL
• LIPASE, TRIACYLGLYCERIN-
• MANNANASE, ENDO-1,4-ß-
|Post# 603193 , Reply# 25   6/13/2012 at 06:55 (346 days old) by chris74 (Germany)    || |
TAED is in it and many enzymes. Also maybe EDTA, I'm unsure of this etidronic acid salt...
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