Thread Number: 40479
Why did Maytag eliminate the Dependable Care Line?
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Post# 598920   5/25/2012 at 17:39 (4,324 days old) by k1rod (Scottsdale, AZ)        

I believe these were amongst the best laundry appliances ever designed.  Their elegance was in their simplicity.  They were ultra durable, inexpensive and easy to work on.  They were the machines that made the Maytag repairman "Old Lonely".  They were almost universally respected as the "bullet proof" machine.  If you had something like that going for you company, why would you ever piss it away?





Post# 598944 , Reply# 1   5/25/2012 at 19:43 (4,324 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Why did the Helical Drive- Dependable Care Washers disappear

combo52's profile picture

This could be a long discussion and I hope that others ofter their take on this. MT started to phase out the HD DC [ helical drive - dependable care ] machines in favor of the Norge and Amana designs for several reasons.

 

One they were cheaper to build.

 

Two they performed much better than the HD DC machines almost all ways, consumers liked the new MTs much better.

 

Three MTs conservative right wing anti-union management was tiring to cut costs by moving production to non-union factories.

 

And MT actually never stopped making the HD DC washers, they did not go out of production till MT sold out to WP. I believe they would have stayed in production for many more years for the older mom and pop dealers and for the Commercial side as they knew that the ATs and HTs were inferior in durability.


Post# 598947 , Reply# 2   5/25/2012 at 20:07 (4,324 days old) by k1rod (Scottsdale, AZ)        

I'm kind of new to this so please excuse my ignorance. What was the difference between the Helical Drive models and the (Norge/Amana) designs? Was this when MT went to the orbital transmission? You mentioned that the Norge/Amana design performed much better than the HD but apparently was not as durable. What ways did the new (or copied) design perform better?

What were some of the HD/DC machines that MT manufactured right up until being bought out by WP?

Thanks for any insight you can provide!


Post# 598953 , Reply# 3   5/25/2012 at 21:27 (4,324 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

kenmore71's profile picture
At the end, the Dependable Care machines that came out of the Newton IA plant all had model numbers that began with the prefix "LAT". In the repair and parts industry these machines are known as "Newton" platform Maytags. With the exception of the major transmission re-design in 1988, these machines were largely unchanged from 1957 until 2006.

The Performa & Atlantis lines are usually referred to as "Herrin/Norge" platform machines. The majority of these machines had the model prefix of "MAV" or "PAV"



Post# 598986 , Reply# 4   5/26/2012 at 00:30 (4,324 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)        
Not Maytag management's doing...

supersuds's profile picture
...although they screwed up plenty of things, this wasn't one of them.

The Dependable Care machines were in production until after the Whirlpool takeover of Maytag. It simply didn't make sense for Whirlpool to have more than one design of toploader in production when the average consumer didn't know the difference and didn't care.


Post# 599000 , Reply# 5   5/26/2012 at 01:37 (4,324 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        
LAT

foraloysius's profile picture
The last model wasn't an LAT but an LAV, an LAV3600 to be precise. Here is a picture of it saved from the Maytag website.



Post# 599094 , Reply# 6   5/26/2012 at 16:06 (4,323 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

So Maytag eliminated the line because they were bought by Whirlpool.....who eliminated it so that they could use their same design on Maytag .......buy a Maytag brand  and get a Whirlpool........buy a Kitchen Aid brand and get a Whirlpool because consumers are idiots.


Post# 599248 , Reply# 7   5/27/2012 at 11:28 (4,322 days old) by k1rod (Scottsdale, AZ)        

So Maytag eliminated the line because they were bought by Whirlpool.....who eliminated it so that they could use their same design on Maytag .......buy a Maytag brand and get a Whirlpool........buy a Kitchen Aid brand and get a Whirlpool because consumers are idiots.

 

If I was in charge of Whirlpool (they never offered me that job :) ),  I would have said, "Yes it does make sense to only build machines to one design.  But the Maytag Dependable Care design is clearly the superior design.  And now we own it!   And from shortly thereafter, all the Whirlpool badged machines would have been Dependable Care machines rather than the other way around.  They owned arguably the best, most respected washing machine design on the planet and summarily executed it!  Naw, we don't want to build these anymore.  The Whirlpool executives that made this decision must have been former US congressmen...

 

 




Post# 599264 , Reply# 8   5/27/2012 at 13:23 (4,322 days old) by kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

kenmore71's profile picture
Well it was a superior design in some respects. The drawbacks to it from a production and sales standpoint were considerable.
1. The DC machines were being made in a union shop. I don't think the WP machines were.
2. The design uses quite a lot of steel and aluminum and is heavy! That's an expense issue for materials, labor and shipping. It also raises the final price tag.
3. The DC design was pretty much maxed out capacity-wise at 19 gallons without a major redesign which also means a major factory retooling. The WP machines had larger tubs (22-ish IIRC) which was a selling point.
4. The WP machine is MUCH easier to do major service on in the field. The motor and pump can be changed by laying the machine on its side. The entire drivetrain can be removed from the same position in another 10 minutes. Once that is out you have access to the spin clutch/brake.

So, as has been mentioned here, the quality across the whole "Maytag" line actually went up when the Herrin/Norge machines were pulled from the line and everything that said "Maytag" was actually a DD WP machine.

That said, I LOVE the DC machines. Between the my personal collection, the condo bldg I manage and the machines on the family farm I "oversee" 4 DC Maytags, 1 DD WP, 1 BD Kenmore, and 2 Herrin/Norge Maytags. I will only perform the most rudimentary of service on the Herrin/Norge Machines. When they have major issues they will be replaced with refurbished DC machines. One of the biggest service issues with the late model DC Maytags was the tub bearing/seal redesign. The last design was not nearly as robust as the earlier ones and that is often what fails first.


Post# 599291 , Reply# 9   5/27/2012 at 16:44 (4,322 days old) by k1rod (Scottsdale, AZ)        

Wow lots to learn here. Thanks Mark for the latest.   My experience is mostly empirical.  I grew up in a family of 9 (back in the 60's-80's)  that was brutally hard on washing machines.  It seemed WP or Frigidaire's would last about 5 years where as the Maytags under that same harsh conditions would last about 15-20 years.  We also didn't own enough machines to really be be statistically significant.  When did Maytag change the tub bearing design?  Could a machine be retrofitted to the older design?  I also still don't really understand what the Helix drive is but suspect it was what went out when the orbital transmission came in?  Thanks again for all the insight.


Post# 599307 , Reply# 10   5/27/2012 at 17:48 (4,322 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Helical refers specifically and only to the transmission drive shaft under the base, which has a spiral (helix) cut in it on which the drive pulley rides down on the shaft for agitation (tub brake set, the shaft turns the transmission interior gears for agitation) or up on the shaft for spin (tub brake released, the transmission exterior housing + basket lock and rotate together).

The orbital and non-orbital (aka pitman or Newton) transmissions are *both* helical-drive.  Orbital refers to a different internal gearing design for converting the motor's rotation to agitator oscillation.


Post# 599325 , Reply# 11   5/27/2012 at 19:47 (4,322 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Why did the Helical Drive Washers disappear?

combo52's profile picture

While the DC washers were very reliable machines and good overall there time had passed. And while WP did technically kill the MT DC washers that MT had been trying to do so for over ten years. If MTs management had improved and redesigned the Helical washer it could have remained a viable washer a lot longer. WP very correctly did not consider keeping the DC machine a day longer than necessary to do an orderly shut down of the factory after they took control of MT.

 

Yes the DC washer was a very good machine overall and had the longest run of any US washer design in history, almost 60 years. But it was never a top performer in capacity, cleaning, linting, rinsing, sand disposal, water extraction and it was the last TL automatic washer built in the US that didn't have self-leveling rear legs and still had an antiquated off - balance switch that could cause the user to make two extra trips back to the basement for each load of wash.

 

The MT DC washer was a little like a 1955-7 Chevy, a 1960s Dodge Dart or a Volvo 240, all very reliable cars in there day but it would make absolutely no scene to be building any of these cars today.

 

Hi Mark, WPs factories are all completely unionized in this country. In fact most major appliance plants in the US are unionized. The problem for MT was as you are automating an older plant it is hard to get rid of older employes and that leaves them with older less productive employees. Unions are great over all when the industry is growing and this is where MT went so wrong buy buying Norge and Amana instead of reinvesting in their own factories like WP did when they came out with the DD and the Calypso.


Post# 599342 , Reply# 12   5/27/2012 at 21:01 (4,322 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

arbilab's profile picture
Thanks for the explanation of 'helical'. I knew what the word meant but not in terms of washer drivetrains.

Post# 599371 , Reply# 13   5/27/2012 at 22:42 (4,322 days old) by k1rod (Scottsdale, AZ)        

Awesome John! You nailed it! But please allow me a little different perspective. You said " The MT DC washer was a little like a 1955-7 Chevy, a 1960s Dodge Dart or a Volvo 240, all very reliable cars in there day but it would make absolutely no scene to be building any of these cars today. "   I can't think of a better group of examples.  You have listed some of the most awesome and cherished feats of mechanical engineering I can think of.  I hope to someday have a 57' Chevy Bel Air because it was elegant in it's simplicity, durability and style.  You could stand in that engine bay while you were changing the spark plugs!  The Volvo 240, 740, 940 all used one of the most well built, durable designed engines ever built.  The 4 cylinder freewheeling engine was often known to go 500k miles if you took proper care of it.  If you neglected to change the timing belt and it broke, no problem, you simply coasted to a stop and needed a new timing belt.  With modern interference engines,  when this happens, your pistons smack right into your valves requiring a complete rebuild of your head (Maybe $4000 dollars versus $250).  And the Dodge Dart (I'm assuming you are talking about the venerable "slant 6" was just like the Volvo!  Provided you didn't drop a screw down the distributor and break the plastic distributor gear,  You couldn't kill these engines with a baseball bat!   They would run forever.  You see, this is exactly what I am looking for in a manufactured product.  I want simplicity, reliability and durability.  I don't care if it has all the bells and whistles.  I don't care if it is the most efficient on a surface level. (And many people don't have the ability to incorporate 2nd order effects such as the energy costs involved in producing an entire second machine to replace the first one because the first one only lasted half as long into their calculations).  And I am not the only one.  There is a huge market (not as big as mass market for sure), that wants exactly this and is willing to pay for it! 


Post# 599377 , Reply# 14   5/27/2012 at 23:19 (4,322 days old) by Volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH)        
Hang on a minute!!!!!

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Having both Maytags and a Volvo 240 in my current stable (and for may years in the past as well) I can say that they can certainly perform in today's world. Classic MT washers were never top performers in anything other than durability, but how many folks need top performance at all times in all categories? I don't roll in mud every day and my clothes aren't caked with grime. I consider this to be normal laundry for me and in that case, the MT performs just fine when loaded properly.

If Volvo still made the 240, I'd buy one without so much as a test drive. I've restored the suspension on my '87 (the engine and transmission run like Swiss watches) and nothing else drives like it. Unlike more modern cars, I have great viability and small blind spots. The handling is great. It will never compete in a slalom, but it's rock-stable on the road and handles every curve I dare throw at it. It's underpowered, but I'm not competing in a drag race. Once I get up to speed, I can drive all day with confidence, economy, and comfort.

Being in the appliance parts biz, I can compare the MT Dependable Care washers to the WP Direct Drives (their closest competition). The DC is easy to service, provided that service consists of replacing the belts. The MT will stand up to FAR more abuse than the WP, one of the reasons why so many property managers like the MT as opposed to the WP. The WP is generally easier to service, but it's likely to need service more frequently. The WP has a larger capacity, but no matter what the capacity is, people will overload them. I also see many WPs with worn out and broken suspension springs. I don't see that in the MT washers.

If I were to buy a washer for the home and knew how to use it properly, I might consider the WP Direct Drive. If it's a washer I'd be putting in a laundromat or a communal laundry facility, I'd go with the MT. The MT might go down for a day or two occasionally, but the WP would go down more often, but be quicker to fix. (How many service calls would you like to run? One big one, or several small ones?)

If there was a superior product today, I'd buy it.
Dave


Post# 599383 , Reply# 15   5/28/2012 at 00:09 (4,322 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
The Gambling Ring Says

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Or rather Consumer Reports:


Maytag vs Whirlpool

For 1985:

Maytag A170 - Gave better than average results in all cycles for both hot water and overall water efficency (Regular, Permanent-press). Excellent eletricity usage.Worse than average on unbalanced loads. Average water extraction, freedom from lint and sand disposal. Excellent for noise and brand repair history.

Whirlpool LA5800XM - Matched Maytag in cycle results as above. Average in electricity use but handled unbalanced loads better than Maytag (CR gave it a better than average rating), tub capacity was also rated the same. Water extraction was less than average (one notch below Maytag's). Freedom from lint was better than average however sand disposal and noise were just average. Brand frequency of repair was rated "good" but Maytag again was excellent.

Maytag (A712) again was CR's top choice in 1986 with Whirlpool (LA9800XM) coming in second.

Indeed in every buying guide one has from 1984 through 1987, Maytag was the number one rated washing machine by CR.

Just a bit of information. Do with it what you will.



Post# 599410 , Reply# 16   5/28/2012 at 03:38 (4,322 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Not washer related-but has to do with the car motors discussed above-remember a wood chipper being used by a contactor in the neighborhood-It had a Chrysler slant six engine as its motor--The contractors fed the 8 in thick tree trunk into that chipper-it ate it without stalling!Now THATS a motor!!!The chipper owners mentioned it was the same slant six used in the older Chrysler cars.

Post# 599476 , Reply# 17   5/28/2012 at 13:21 (4,321 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
CRs Washer Tests

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Hi Laundress thanks for looking up those tests, I was mainly comparing MTs DC washers to the newer Norgetags and Amanatags that MT was trying to replace the DC machines with, also the two CR tests you listed of WP models were still both BD machines, things changed quite a bit by 1990 when the WP built DD machines were more reliable in CRs surveys.


Post# 600221 , Reply# 18   6/1/2012 at 02:36 (4,318 days old) by CheertoAll ()        
We miss the Maytag Dep Care

The MT DPC motor burned out in late 2010. It was mom's and she asked me to replace it. I bought the MT Centennial TL with bells and whistles; but all it did was shred our clothes.

I replaced it a few months ago with the Maytag Bravo XL TOL and steam dryer. So far so good, but without the rebates I received these would not be worth the trouble. Wish I had replaced the motor in the MT DPC. It was the best washer ever.



Post# 600338 , Reply# 19   6/1/2012 at 15:52 (4,317 days old) by k1rod (Scottsdale, AZ)        

Wish I had replaced the motor in the MT DPC. It was the best washer ever.

 

 That's kind of where I am at now.  I just bought a 1995 vintage LAT8506AEE on CL.  I'm planning on making that the daily driver forever.  There isn't anything that can go wrong with it that I cannot fix.  Just for the heck of it I am going to put a new tub bearing, seal and mounting stem in.  When I do that I will also add the old style Agitator Shaft Seal A4298 to try to make the water seal as robust as the old style stems were built with.  I'll put up a spare timer and water level switch because those are parts that could become "unobtanium" and I'll call it good... 

 




Post# 601493 , Reply# 20   6/6/2012 at 13:21 (4,312 days old) by joefuss1984 (Little Rock, AR)        
last maytag orbital model

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So the LAV3600 then was the same design with the orbital transmission before they started changing things up?  


Post# 601726 , Reply# 21   6/7/2012 at 10:10 (4,311 days old) by k1rod (Scottsdale, AZ)        

Yes, The LAV3600 was the same Dependable Care design that Maytag had been building for 60 years. It just had a more modern look to it. The only thing that I can figure that wasn't as robust on the LAV and LAT series machines as all the other Dependable Care machines of the past is the tub bearing and the mounting stem seal which made these newer DC machines more prone to leaking.

Post# 601728 , Reply# 22   6/7/2012 at 10:20 (4,311 days old) by joefuss1984 (Little Rock, AR)        
Thats cool!

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Now I want one just because it was the last of a good thing!


Post# 601729 , Reply# 23   6/7/2012 at 10:29 (4,311 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
MT Helical Drive washer main tub seals

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MT had big problems with tub center seals from 1956-the early 1960s when they put a SS wear ring in the tub mounting stem instead of having the carbon ring ride directly on the aluminum mounting stem. After this time they had little problem until the early 1980s and it went down hill from there to the end. The entire seal design for both the spin seal and agitator shaft was never a great design, but they did get it to work for a long period of time. It will always be one of many weak points of the Dependable Care washers, like WP Belt Drive washers and GE FF washers it is easy to see why none of these machines could be built today, it would make no sense at all as the reliability of these otherwise great machines can't begin to compete with what they are building today.


Post# 601769 , Reply# 24   6/7/2012 at 14:12 (4,311 days old) by k1rod (Scottsdale, AZ)        

the reliability of these otherwise great machines can't begin to compete with what they are building today.

I am a little bit confused by this...  My experience (as well as that of many others) has been that new machines do not last anywhere near as long as older machines did, and that out of the old machines, the Dependable Care machines were about the most durable and robust.  I have heard of DC machines that lasted 25 years under very heavy and sometimes abusive service.  I can't think of any currently produced "mainstream" machine that would do that...  Maybe a Speed Queen or Miele but not any Whirlpool's, GE's or new Maytags...  My perception is that new machines (for the most part) are designed with about an 8 year lifespan in mind.  Am I missing something here?


Post# 601798 , Reply# 25   6/7/2012 at 17:01 (4,311 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
New Appliance Reliablity

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Am I Missing something, probably yes.

 

The only way we will know how many of today's washers-dryers etc will last 15, 20, 25, 30, 35 years will be to stick around and see. I do know, because I was there selling MTs and WPs in the 70s and beyond and know how they have held up and now I am selling new machines today and they are holding up MUCH better than the appliances of the 60s and 70s did by a long shot.

 

Time will tell and if you or anyone else can PROVE otherwise or have a working crystal ball I am all ears. But just like most consumer products and automobiles there are far fewer problems and people are keeping these products far longer than ever.


Post# 601805 , Reply# 26   6/7/2012 at 17:48 (4,311 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

kenmore71's profile picture
John, I agree with you, on the whole, about newer appliances. The DD WP is, on the whole, more reliable and MUCH easier to repair than a DC Maytag. That said, I do love working on the old Maytag machines. I think we will have to agree to disagree about actual washing performance :)

One question I have: My mother bought a WP Duet Sport 3 years ago. About 6 months ago it started making a god-awful grinding sound during the spin. The experts were consulted and it was determined that her $800 washer needed $850 worth of repairs. Is this a fluke? Since it's in a room with a door that can be closed that's what she has been doing for the last 6 months. I expect to get a call any day that it is finally dead. At that point I will probably try to talk her into a Speed Queen AFN50F. The $1850 list is a bit intimidating, however. That said, adjusted for inflation, my Maytag A806 which was bought for $288 in 1967 would cost $1984 in 2012 dollars according to the CPI inflation adjuster.

I did FINALLY prevail upon her about 2 months ago to let me replace her poorly functioning Maytag/Amana tall-tub DW with a lightly used 2007 true Kenmore UltraWash standard tub. She sings its praises every time we speak! :) Until that damned Maytag TT dishwasher the only dishwashers she knew were a 1976 WU601 and a 1997 Kenmore UltraWash. She now has a machine worthy of that tradition!


Post# 601807 , Reply# 27   6/7/2012 at 18:14 (4,311 days old) by k1rod (Scottsdale, AZ)        

The only way we will know how many of today's washers-dryers etc will last 15, 20, 25, 30, 35 years will be to stick around and see.

 

Maybe some of these machines will last that long.  We just don't know.  What I do know is that I am seeing many modern machines with "uneconomical to repair" failures, within two to five years from their in service date.  The AmanaTags is a prime example, so were the Neptunes (before they redesigned almost every part of them) before that.  I troll CL looking for classic vintage machines and what I mostly find is modern machines that are either dead and sold for parts or work so poorly, the owner doesn't want them anymore.  I bought a new GE refrigerator a few years ago and before the machine was three years old it was making a bizarre clicking noise and not cooling.  Turns out the main control board in it was bad and that was a $325 repair.  After that the ice maker started crapping plastic gear parts into my ice cubes just before it refused to make any more ice.  Another $175 repair.  Back in 1998 I bought a Neptune Washer.  That machine needed a major repair every year for the first 8 years I owned it.  (New control board twice, New motor and motor control, new wax motors, new timer, new boot seal, new tub because the bearing went bad) The only part I haven't had to replace on that machine was the water pump.  About 7 years ago I bought a Bosch dishwasher for about $800.  Very quiet.  But when it was about 4 1/2 years old, the main control board on it went out.  Another "Not worth the cost to repair".   I replaced it with a TOL Jenn Air dishwasher.  This one lasted a year before the stainless steel tub (where the heating element went through) rusted through and started leaking.  I had to fight with Whirlpool for two months finally threatening legal action to get them to honor their warranty and replace the thing!  I guess my point is is that from my experience, I keep trying to buy and pay for high quality TOL stuff and I keep ending up with a handful of s**t.  So I don't have warm feelings towards newer appliances.

 

I just don't remember this kind of thing happening back in the 60's and 70's.  You bought a refrigerator, it was good for 20 years at least.  A washing machine was good for about 10 years before needing any repair, A Kitchen Aid dishwasher would likely last 25 years as well.  And manufacturers weren't trying to slime their way out of honoring their warranty's. 


Post# 601811 , Reply# 28   6/7/2012 at 19:08 (4,311 days old) by DirectDriveDave ()        

I have heard some people say on here that some BOL modern are actually more reliable, less things to break down I'm guessing.

Post# 601838 , Reply# 29   6/7/2012 at 22:51 (4,311 days old) by MaytagA710 ()        
Current appliance reliability

There has been, is, and always will be good appliances, and crappy appliances. Look at Westinghouse, WCI, or even late model Frigidaire machines. Westinghouse DWs in the early 70s were not that good, they didnt even have wheels on the lower rack, poorly rated by CR. Late model Frigidaire franklin machines have a tendency to leak, and that design has been around since the mid 80s. I don't like the adage "They sure don't make 'em like they used to!" because it is simply untrue. There has been, is, and always will be crappy products, just as there are good products. Perhaps the amount of quality machines 40 years ago was higher than today, but there still were garbage machines 40 years ago too. 

 

It is really too soon to say how these new WP and GE machines with the impeller will turn out, as it is too early. Lets wait 10 years and then discuss.

 

As for why wouldn't WP keep the DC machine? Well, why would they? From a design perspective, the DC design is simple. Two screws and you are at most of the machine. No solenoids or massive clutch packs. Motor and pump are right infront of you, and the drive switching from agi to spin is also simple.

 

But then lets look at the DD machine. Its design is SIMPLE. More simple than the DC. Sometimes you have to remove two screws, or other times its just to clips, and then two more clips, and you are at the ENTIRE machine. Control panel, pump, motor, water level switch, transmission, brake, clutch, etc...

 

Being a die hard Maytag fan, who creams over older MT appliances, dreams about them etc... I will be the first one to admit, the DD washer is better than the DC machine. However, both machines are excellent performers, and where one machine lacks, the other one makes up for it. (Lets not forget, it took MT almost 40 years to add the extra rinse option LOL) I dont like MT fridges or stoves, since they aren't truely MT designs, as most of them were sourced from Norge/Magic Chef. Thats why I will always admire WP, its been a full-line manufacturer for many, many years, many many more years than Maytag. 


Post# 601861 , Reply# 30   6/8/2012 at 00:58 (4,311 days old) by k1rod (Scottsdale, AZ)        

Thanks Kevin for your perspective. (By the way, my family is originally from River John, Pictou County, NS).

I have heard a lot of good things about the WP DD machines. How does one identify which machines these are? I thought (I may be mistaken) I heard that the WP DD machines had recently been discontinued. Is this true?

My memories of WP machines from when I was a kid often involved a repairman coming to replace a somewhat problematic part called a "Wig Wag". Does the WP DD machine still use this part?

Thanks for any insight!



Post# 601897 , Reply# 31   6/8/2012 at 07:42 (4,311 days old) by DirectDriveDave ()        

To my knowledge, I think they are still being made, but for very low-end models.

Wig Wags were not used on DDs, they were on the belt drives that came out before ;)


Post# 601901 , Reply# 32   6/8/2012 at 08:49 (4,310 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Recent info told me that direct-drive machines are now discontinued on the consumer/domestic market, except for the topload stack sets.  The latest "low-end" models have gone to the VMW belt-drive design.

k1rod, two easy ways (there are others) to identify direct-drive machines:  1) the loading port is round instead of D-shaped; 2) there is no rear access panel.


Post# 601941 , Reply# 33   6/8/2012 at 12:54 (4,310 days old) by k1rod (Scottsdale, AZ)        

Recent info told me that direct-drive machines are now discontinued on the consumer/domestic market, except for the topload stack sets.  The latest "low-end" models have gone to the VMW belt-drive design.

And this is exactly the kind of thing I don't understand.  Apparently (I have learned from this site) the Whirlpool DD design is a robust, very well engineered machine.  It would seem that the design is highly enough thought of that it would be destined to take it's place in washing machine history right up there with the Maytag DC machines.   So what does Whirlpool do?  They discontinue it.  Why in this industry is there this continual pattern of "messing with success?".  


Post# 601954 , Reply# 34   6/8/2012 at 14:05 (4,310 days old) by coldspot66 (Plymouth, Mass)        

DD machines do not meet the latest energy guidelines for water usage...I am VERY SORRY to see them discontinued in their present form. They are still available as a Maytag commercial "on premises" washer (meaning without a coin chute).

Post# 601978 , Reply# 35   6/8/2012 at 16:28 (4,310 days old) by DirectDriveDave ()        

Yeah, I think the only way to return them back to normal is if the damn treehugger regulations somewhat die down. It could happen, you never know....

Post# 601984 , Reply# 36   6/8/2012 at 17:30 (4,310 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Not So Long As Obama Is In Office

launderess's profile picture
And California is around things aren't going to change, and may only get tighter.

Of the two California seems to have more influence due to the size of it's market. If you've got something to sell that wants moving in CA plus the rest of the country you have two options: make a special version for that one state and sell your other goods/products elsewhere, or simply make one version (the CA) and move it along elsewhere the best way possible.



Post# 601990 , Reply# 37   6/8/2012 at 18:13 (4,310 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Discontiuning the WP DD Washers

combo52's profile picture

It was time for these great machines to go and it had little to do with energy regulations and nothing to do with our Wonderful President. No one was a bigger backer of the DD washers than we were right from the beginning, by 1985 we were steering customers away from the BD WPs and pushing the new DD washers, as we could tell by the lower # of warranty calls that the DD machines were already more reliable than the BD washers.

 

The DD washer was an expensive machine to build [ it had a sand cast, cast iron transmission where the mold could only be used once ] it was old technology. It was also the most produced automatic washer ever with more than 100 Million built and it had a good 30 year run.

 

I have been to training on the new BD replacement and taken the machine completely apart and reassembled it and can say it is much better built than the DD washers and I predict it will last longer and have fewer repairs. In two years time our company has not done a single service call on one of these new washers, I think that is pretty impressive for an all new machine, time will tell.


Post# 601993 , Reply# 38   6/8/2012 at 18:25 (4,310 days old) by coldspot66 (Plymouth, Mass)        

@John Combo 52,

You haven't had any calls on the new belt drive washer for the nut that holds the PLASTIC tranny pulley backing out??? Find that hard to believe...


Post# 601996 , Reply# 39   6/8/2012 at 18:50 (4,310 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
New WP BD Washers

combo52's profile picture

I have in all honesty heard of that and a few other problems, but we have not done a single service call on one. We probably will next week LOL, but we are a small company doing no more than 90 service calls per week divided among the three of us that are on the road 5 days a week. The service calls have always been pretty evenly divided between Washers, dryers, refrigerators, dishwashers, gas and electric ranges cook-tops and wall ovens and we still fix a lot of built-in microwaves and the OTR microwaves.


Post# 831959 , Reply# 40   7/12/2015 at 10:53 (3,181 days old) by thefixer ()        

Can't tell you how many VMW repairs I've done! These things are junk in my opinion. Tons of failed shift actuators, always carry spares. Broken wires due to overtightening of wire harness tie wraps during factory installation. Loose main pulley nuts (very common), lots of failed motor capacitors. Lots of failed transmission top bearings. Transmission not serviceable but I've heard of one repair company that had accumualted so many of these transmissions that they figured out how to get the transmissions apart to replace the cheap commonly available bearing. Once you've done a couple, it's a bit of work, it becomes routine and is worthwhile. When most people see the cost of replacing a transmission or control board, they just junk the machine. These machines did replace the DD, are very common so there are now tons of them being used so the actual percentage of failures may be low, I don't know, just know I've seen and heard of so so many failures since they came out in 2010.

Post# 891134 , Reply# 41   7/26/2016 at 15:30 (2,801 days old) by sarat (USA)        

I know this is an old thread but it's in keeping with the DC line so I figured I'd revive it :). Can anyone tell me anything at all about this model? Was it one of the first or last DC's produced? How does it measure against the 'DC Plus' model? Would love any insight or assistance. A brochure would be fantastic. Thank you.

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Post# 891165 , Reply# 42   7/26/2016 at 20:07 (2,801 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Oh Laundress,

now talk about abysmal; "Not as long as Obama is in office, or California is around"
Please, the crummy appliance designs were all said and implementation underway before Obama was even running. You wish for bad things to happen to California?
So they label things with warnings for pregnant mothers, and toxic goods.
Remember the TV add in the 70's of the Indian rowing a canoe past all the smoke stacks?


Post# 891166 , Reply# 43   7/26/2016 at 20:10 (2,801 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Personally,

I am better off than a decade ago. Except for a crummy washer.
A nice roof over head, food in the pantry and fridge, and health insurance which yes, we pay for.
Our son in law is a part company owner and got insurance through an exchange, and says it's better than he had with his former larger company.


Post# 891852 , Reply# 44   7/31/2016 at 18:03 (2,796 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)        

goatfarmer's profile picture

That's a later DC. Decent enough washer.


Post# 892626 , Reply# 45   8/5/2016 at 11:43 (2,791 days old) by 48bencix (Sacramento CA)        
Motel Laundry Rooms

I still see them in Motel Laundry rooms. And a Laundromat near me still has them. My 2001 model is still running daily.

Post# 892679 , Reply# 46   8/5/2016 at 22:14 (2,791 days old) by fan-of-fans (Florida)        

I would guess mid-90s based on the white, but still squarish panel.

Post# 892733 , Reply# 47   8/6/2016 at 11:48 (2,790 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
the reliability of these otherwise great machines can't

chetlaham's profile picture
You mean newer machines have fewer manufacturing defects? I certainly believe that. IF you mean longevity I have a hard time believing that. Built in obsolescence is by design. Any dealer will tell you they are chucking out just as many broken post filter flo machines as they are chucking out vintage machines. Look at the dumpsters for that matter. 5-10 year old machines in even proportion with older ones. And as of late I see more modern than vintage.

Post# 1170142 , Reply# 48   1/23/2023 at 00:31 (430 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
maytag commercial dc at the dorm

I have used the maytag dc washers at my dorm. I don't like the short rinse cycle so I have to restart it. That's my pet peeve.


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