Thread Number: 42020
Superba Monterey 21 repair 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 618824   8/20/2012 at 22:36 (4,258 days old) by andrewoh ()        

So my house came with this dishwasher, it says kitchenaid whisper quiet Superba Monterey 21 on it. It is the first dishwasher I've ever owned, and up until the last few months was fine. Lately it has not been cleaning so well, so tonight I took the trays out with the idea that a thorough cleaning was in order.
I don't have any idea what i'm doing, really, but I guess that a rip in the filter bit is bad?

i.imgur.com/0lLQpl.jpg...


Any good ideas on how to fix this? From reading past threads on here tonight, I can see that there is a lot of love for these old girls, is it time to put this one out to pasture or can she be saved?

Thanks from a really surprised an impressed newbie; I never realized there was such love for dishwashers out there.
Andrew

CLICK HERE TO GO TO andrewoh's LINK



Post# 618827 , Reply# 1   8/20/2012 at 22:53 (4,258 days old) by whirlykenmore78 (Prior Lake MN (GMT-0500 CDT.))        
A rip in the S/S filter is bad

 whirlykenmore78's profile picture
This machine is based off of the Hobart WM-series undercounter warewashers. No commercial DW pump is designed to ingest garbage. .
I do belive somewhere between the Whirlpool(who built this DW) and Hobart(It's based on their design) guys could steer you in the right direction. I know the commercial Hobart's better than the home ones so I won't venture a guess.
Welcome to AW.org.
WK78

Post# 618838 , Reply# 2   8/20/2012 at 23:18 (4,258 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Did the 21 series have ss filters?  Mine didn't, but it was an Imperial.  If the filter is the only source of the machine's performance issues, there's likely someone here who has a spare.
Post# 618840 , Reply# 3   8/20/2012 at 23:19 (4,258 days old) by andrewoh ()        
S/s = stainless steel?

 The rip isn't in the steel mesh surround under the arms. When I took off the arm unit, there is a horizontal gasket-ey thing, disc shaped, with eight mesh pie pieces. I think water comes up through it, out the arms. One of the mesh bits is torn.

I am cleaning the stainless filter now. Man it's caked in build up. Isitoldsoap, or calcium,by the way?
Andrew

Apologies; if I sound like an ignorant simpleton, its becasue that's basically what I am.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO andrewoh's LINK
Post# 618853 , Reply# 4   8/20/2012 at 23:40 (4,258 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Oh, the fine mesh filter.  Yeah, that's not stainless and the whole thing would need to be replaced.

 

The crud on the stainless filter could be a combination of detergent and hard water residue.  Running a cycle once in a while with a cup or two of white vinegar added after the tub fills should keep that under control going forward.
Post# 618862 , Reply# 5   8/21/2012 at 00:09 (4,258 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

Apologies; if I sound like an ignorant simpleton, its becasue that's basically what I am.M

Don't worry about it. Remember not everyone knows everything. We learn by asking questions and there are people here who know the answers. If ya' don't ask how are you gonna learn? Welcome!

Post# 618930 , Reply# 6   8/21/2012 at 08:34 (4,257 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
More to it or maybe less to it than meets the eye!

 Andrew,
Your machine probably has many more years of life left in it with some repair work done to it.
There are a number of reasons why you are not getting clean dishes from this machine and the major one is the failure of the washarm support itself where the plastic wears out and the water sprays right out of the bottom of the lower arm and back into the sump and more often, the white bushings inside the support wear out and the bottom one moves up with the water and effectively blocks off the lower arm and all the water winds up going up to the top arm. I will post pics at the end of this from a 18-20 series support but the problem will be obvious.

For the record, the water that flows thru the washarm comes from the wash pump impeller and goes directly into the arm after passing thru the stainless steel filter.The drain impeller/garbage disposer blade grinds up the food particles and sends them to the soil chamber under the arm which is what is under that fine mesh screen that seems to have a hole in it. Normally that soil is held there until the pump reverses and drains whereby the small holes under the washarm will rinse the soil down from the chamber and out the drain.

With the hole in the screen, those small bits of food wind up getting sucked right into the intake flow of the wash pump and get thrown back out on to the dishes. Also, it looks like you are missing the coarse strainer that clips into the side of the pump as well. This will allow larger particles to get through to the pump intake as well. Normally these items will get ground up and sent to the soil chamber as well so again, you are compounding the problem of soil getting washed on to the dishes.
That fine mesh screen and wash arm support is actually no longer available but I know that John, Combo 52 has a few used ones and if you really search hard enough, you can probably purchase the screening from a place like McMaster Carr and reline the top of the housing. I don't have the specs on the mesh size with me but will post it later tonight for you.
If the bushings are moving around, you can disassemble the support from the bottom and see if you can simply reclip it in place or perhaps use a suitable material to "glue" it in place.

I may be parting out my Monterrey as I need a timer for it and I still have a spare Superba 22 that I like better so I may have the complete pump and washarm available.

If you replace the parts you need, it should be a great machine for you.

The first picture is what the bushing should look like if it is in its proper place. The next one is the wrong position. It makes all the difference in the world!

Hope this helps.


Post# 618932 , Reply# 7   8/21/2012 at 08:37 (4,257 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Now the wrong configuration!

 See how the bushing will move up and close off the opening? Is your wash arm support doing the same thing?

Post# 618936 , Reply# 8   8/21/2012 at 09:46 (4,257 days old) by andrewoh ()        
Wow

 Wow,thanks. After looking up the word "bushing" and some messing around, I see what you mean. I can push the plastic "bushing" back into place, but it likely won't stay when the hot water is pushing up on it during cycles.
Can I glue it in place, do you think?

I do have the s/s coarse filter, just removed it for cleaning before that pic was taken. I think I will try to repair the fine filter, maybe just with a piece of plastic. Of the eight sections of mesh, it is the toniest, and I don't think it's closure would affect performance much.
Thanks for your help, I am totally in your debt.
Andrew

CLICK HERE TO GO TO andrewoh's LINK
Post# 619062 , Reply# 9   8/21/2012 at 21:04 (4,257 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
missing link?

 Andrew,
Here is a picture of the removable Coarse Filter I was talking about. Do you have this item? If not, you should get one of these as well. A small piece of Plastic to block the ripped mesh will be fine. Any water that would have passed thru that small area will easily go thru the rest of the screen.
According to Whirlpool, the mesh screen is a .011 mesh in case you wish to replace it or patch it.

I have also attached a link for the mesh from McMaster-Carr. Perhaps you can call them and see if this would work to repair your filter.
Hope this helps
Steve

CLICK HERE TO GO TO stevet's LINK
Post# 619131 , Reply# 10   8/22/2012 at 08:07 (4,256 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Stevet

 jetcone's profile picture
not sure what you mean by ..."one is the failure of the washarm support itself where the plastic wears out and the water sprays right out of the bottom of the lower arm and back into the sump.."

do you mean that flat white part at the very top of the spindle, the groove wears flat and allows water to flush out under the black center of the wash arm??



Post# 619148 , Reply# 11   8/22/2012 at 09:16 (4,256 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
More serious that that!

 Jon, I have seen many supports where the actual plastic "neck" has deteriorated to such an extent that the brass ring and white lower bushing are no longer functional. And then the water just sprays down and out from the wash armand back into the pump intake. If you look at the 1st picture of the 18-20 series support above, it would be the plaastic area between the two screws and below the brass bearing. I have seen that completely gone due to water and chemicals.It happened on the commercial machines too, especially with the harsher detergents used by those units.

Post# 619150 , Reply# 12   8/22/2012 at 09:25 (4,256 days old) by dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        

Sorry to hijack this thread, but is the bad wash arm support common on the later whirlpool powerclean/ kenmore ultra wash models? Our wash arm seems a bit loose.

Post# 619163 , Reply# 13   8/22/2012 at 10:50 (4,256 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Is the Wash-Arm Support a Problem On WP Built DWs?

 combo52's profile picture

NO, this was a KA only problem, although the WP built KD-23s also had a KA style wash arm support that did fail.
Post# 619183 , Reply# 14   8/22/2012 at 11:44 (4,256 days old) by dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        

Ok thanks!

Post# 619212 , Reply# 15   8/22/2012 at 13:36 (4,256 days old) by recyclewasher ()        
SteveT

 concerning the wear in the plastic and brass/bronze bearing between the "two screws".
I noticed the unique screw heads for the two screws,

Does Hobart sell the special 'screwdriver' for these screws??

so if an enterprising DIY wants to repair the worn plastic piece with.. -lets say a machined teflon replacement??? on his worn one while the newly purchased Hobart 4162724 is doing duty in his repaired KDS-19 :)

Post# 619219 , Reply# 16   8/22/2012 at 13:47 (4,256 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Anything is possible

 If you are enterprising enough and have access to a great machine shop. No, Hobart doesn't sell a special screwdriver for those screws. That can be bought at a good hardware store or your machine shop can make you a bit for it!.
The problem with the teflon bushing is whether or not the plastic housing can hold it properly.

If you really wanted a washarm support that will last many more years than the oem item, I would recomment replacing it with the revised Hob art design which does away with the 4 wya Hydrosweep arm and uses a very beefed up design and a new single washarm. Has the same numb er of holes and actually spins faster than the 4 way arm.


Post# 619227 , Reply# 17   8/22/2012 at 14:19 (4,256 days old) by recyclewasher ()        
revised HOBART part numbers

 Yes, I've read you mentioning that revision on some archived posts, but I haven't come across any of the revised part #'s, can you repost the #'s I should be looking for please?

I was looking at machining a S/S or Monel sleeve from piping cutoffs to slot between the black plastic housing and the white plastic bushing to take the loading stresses off the housing while reusing the same screws for securing the modified internal parts.
Most of my machining is done on a small 3 1/2" lathe-myford S7 with a milling head attachment and I tig weld also. Haven't come across that type screw head before and was thinking to make one using three semicircular shaft keys ..the Hardwares here won't have that type screwdriver

Post# 619260 , Reply# 18   8/22/2012 at 17:14 (4,256 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
here are the pics of the new style parts.

 They are actually pretty pricey to purchase as you also need to get the strainer screen as well. I can supply the numbers if you want them and can check availability. Actually, I may have a spare set or two up in the attic!
The first picture is the lower wash pump housing and upper support. Notice it is held in by 8, not 4 screws which will alleviate the usualy warpage common on the black plastic housings.


Post# 619261 , Reply# 19   8/22/2012 at 17:18 (4,256 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
here is the complete deal!

 Put together with the washarm. The new wash arms no longer have the cleanout plugs though they are still available from Hobart. I had some of them welded closed with a small stainless cover.

Post# 619551 , Reply# 20   8/23/2012 at 16:43 (4,255 days old) by recyclewasher ()        
I can supply the numbers if you want ...

 Hi Stevet, I'll take you up on your offer for the part numbers thanks

Post# 619870 , Reply# 21   8/24/2012 at 19:54 (4,254 days old) by andrewoh ()        
Game over

 Well, it looks like I am out of time to fix this washer. There are just not enough hours in the day. I am off to the store to buy a new one, any advice people? Also, what is the best way to dispose of this old gal? Does anyone want a piece of it?

Post# 619899 , Reply# 22   8/24/2012 at 21:56 (4,254 days old) by dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        

I don't think you will find a new dishwasher that will perform as well as yours. Why not just replace the wash arm support and patch the filter, and get back to washing dishes?


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