Thread Number: 42249
Kenmore agitator fins breaking
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Post# 621749   9/1/2012 at 11:30 (4,226 days old) by nashvegas ()        

Please help! We bought another Kenmore full-size stackable to replace one that lasted 15 years and now I wish we had kept the old one! We bought this one used ("returned unused" so they said) from Sears Outlet in Jan 2011. During the yearlong warranty, we had to have it repaired four times because the fins kept breaking off (see pic below - the fins should be twice that long). They break off within a few DAYS of the new agitator being installed. So after the warranty was out, we paid for yet another agitator to be shipped to us and we replaced it ourselves, but of course the fins broke off immediately. We've been washing like this for months and of course it doesn't clean well. I am so frustrated I want to cry every time we do laundry! If we continue this way, we will spend way more than the unit is worth on replacing the agitator. All the agitators but one had a vertical groove along each fin to allow for flex, I suppose, and that's where they are breaking. One did not have the grooves but still broke at that spot. Our clothes snag on the fins, then the agitator dogs sound like they are breaking off (although they look fine to me) then the fins break after 10 or so cycles. I have to file the remaining raw edges down so the jagged plastic doesn't ruin our clothes. I can't imagine this is happening to *everyone* who owns one of these models!! I have done a lot of research and think this must be symptom of an underlying mechanical problem, but I don't know how to proceed. Call Sears and demand that they fix it, even though the warranty expired 8 months ago? Go into the Sears Outlet and have a nervous breakdown during their busiest time on Saturday? I'm at my wit's end.... I wish I could find others who have had this exact problem so I could find out what they did to fix it. Other than cart the entire thing to the dump and try to recover from the trauma!




Post# 621750 , Reply# 1   9/1/2012 at 11:33 (4,226 days old) by nashvegas ()        

Here's a picture of the fins as they look after breaking off.

Post# 621752 , Reply# 2   9/1/2012 at 12:01 (4,226 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
How big of a load are you running? Seems like overloading is the likely cause. In all the years I've used washers with this kind of agitator with flexing fins (Whirlpool, KitchenAid, Kenmore, and Fisher & Paykel has similar lower fins), I've never had any of them break.


Post# 621754 , Reply# 3   9/1/2012 at 12:18 (4,226 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Broken Agitators

combo52's profile picture

Yes it might be being overloaded or their may be other mechanical problems with the machine. This is a Frigidaire built machine with an indexing tub, but even so we have not seen this type of problem often. I would replace the agitator and then make a habit of watching the washer wash and make sure that it is working properly and that all the clothing is moving around the wash basket easily.


Post# 621755 , Reply# 4   9/1/2012 at 12:18 (4,226 days old) by nashvegas ()        

Yes, that is a good question. When this happened the first time, we thought it was our fault, but subsequent fins broke off even when we routinely ran half-loads trying to avoid the broken fins. We've really tried everything in the past 20 months, including making sure our loads were well under capacity....

Post# 621772 , Reply# 5   9/1/2012 at 13:02 (4,226 days old) by Maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)        
Is stacking

your only option? If it is, I would consider getting separate units with a front loading washer.


Lawrence/Maytagbear


Post# 621792 , Reply# 6   9/1/2012 at 13:55 (4,226 days old) by magic_clean (Florida)        
Is

the machine spinning and agitating at the same time?

Post# 621810 , Reply# 7   9/1/2012 at 14:41 (4,226 days old) by imperial70 (MA USA)        

When you say you are running 1/2 loads, are you reducing the water level too?
I see too many people overload machines today. If the clothes are not moving freely through the water then you are overloading. No offense meant, it's just the way they advertise capacity these days that is extremely missleading. I really think 6 or 7 bath towels may be a full load in that machine (And I don't mean bath sheets either). One set of kind size sheets is a full load. Maybe three pairs of average size jeans would be a full load too. Just a thought. Please don't take it the wrong way. Just wondering.... :-)

I'm also wondering if the water level has been reduced in these machines like so many others?


Post# 621813 , Reply# 8   9/1/2012 at 14:45 (4,226 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Perhaps to confirm the loading situation you could post some pics of what you run as both a full load and a half load.  I've noticed there's a wide variation in people's perception of what is a full load, underload, and overload.

Shoes? Do you occasionally wash shoes, which can get jammed between the fins and basket?


Post# 621823 , Reply# 9   9/1/2012 at 15:28 (4,226 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Low Fill

mrb627's profile picture
Perhaps this machine isnt filling up high enough.


Post# 621895 , Reply# 10   9/1/2012 at 21:00 (4,226 days old) by Nashvegas ()        

Thank you - we appreciate any questions or suggestions that help. Unlike many families, we just don't have a ton of laundry, and we run a load every day, so we never feel like we have to do 10 loads on "laundry day." We almost always keep the water level on high and fill the machine 3/4 full with fabric, as is the case with the current load we just started, not realizing we'd be using it as an example!

We don't wash shoes often, nor do we wash heavy items like blankets. The fins broke off new agitators when we were washing regular clothes. several times, I found a t-shirts that were literally snagged and stretched in the fins. Seems like an overload, but I promise it was not...

Keep in mind that when the fins are *not* broken off, the machine makes terrible noises as if it *is* overloaded and can't make the agitator move under all the weight. It *sounds* like we've stuffed it to the max. It makes a very load "whirrr-Ka-chunk-whirrr-Ka-chunk" noise as if it is slipping gears when the agitator turns in the wash cycle. I wish I could show you video of that but it doesn't do that when all the fins are broken off, as now. (The problem is that without the fins, the clothes really don't move around much! If the clothes were clean, I wouldn't care about the fins.) When the fins are full-length, the noise sounds like the agitator is being held still and it's fighting against the force.

So... with the *possibility* that this is not due to overloading... does anyone think this might be related to mechanical issues such as the transmission? Is there such a thing as an incorrect torque setting or something like that, so that when the fins are full-length, it puts undue pressure on the machine, not relative to the volume of clothes? Someone asked if the machine is spinning and agitating at the same time...I just looked and it is not. Appears to be slowly and rhythmically turning. Perfectly normal, but the clothes are barely moving because the fins are broken off.

Sorry for the lengthy posts! Just trying to give you all the details. Thanks very much for your thoughts and input!


Post# 621898 , Reply# 11   9/1/2012 at 21:13 (4,226 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

kenmore71's profile picture
Sounds to me like there is mechanical problem in the drivetrain. I know next to nothing about the guts of these particular machines but the sounds you describe are NOT normal for ANY machine. In my opinion it's a wonder that the motor hasn't burned out or that whatever sort of gearing there is hasn't been stripped completely down by now!

Post# 621918 , Reply# 12   9/1/2012 at 22:08 (4,226 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
That load you picture is definitely underloaded ... so overloading definitely is not the problem. :-)


Post# 621920 , Reply# 13   9/1/2012 at 22:14 (4,226 days old) by camMURRAY22 (Savannah,Georgia)        
Agitator Fins Breaking Off

You need to trade the unit in for an older Frigidaire laundry center (WCI). The Older Frigidaire stacked unit would be better for you.

Hope this helps.

Chris


Post# 621940 , Reply# 14   9/2/2012 at 01:40 (4,226 days old) by StrongEnough78 (California)        

strongenough78's profile picture
Or if all else fails, just get the straight vane agitator for this machine. I've used this exact machine equipped with the straight vane and the cleaning performance was actually very good. Plus you'll be able to use the machine to capacity.

Post# 622027 , Reply# 15   9/2/2012 at 10:31 (4,225 days old) by nashvegas ()        

Whew, I'm so glad you all think it might not be our user error! :) I would be willing to try one more agitator, but I assume that if there is an underlying problem with the motor or something, a new agitator with longer fins is going to result in the same trouble. Where could we find a straight vane agitator? I can't find one available for purchase online, but I might not be searching in the right place!

Post# 622028 , Reply# 16   9/2/2012 at 10:43 (4,225 days old) by thor (Buenos Aires)        

As per you description of the strange noise when the blades brake off I would place all my chips on the chance of a drivetrain malfunction, causing the machine's agitator to agitate while the tub is spinning. Just think of fast spinning clothes hitting the tips of the agitator. Comparing the relative speed of the spinning clothes the tips of the agitaror are "stationary" and locked.

Post# 622029 , Reply# 17   9/2/2012 at 10:50 (4,225 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Frigidaire Agitator

mrb627's profile picture
part number 3204401



Post# 622032 , Reply# 18   9/2/2012 at 11:03 (4,225 days old) by nashvegas ()        

Hey, Thor, do you think that means we shouldn't bother with another agitator? IF that was the problem, is it a repair or a replace situation?

Post# 622034 , Reply# 19   9/2/2012 at 11:12 (4,225 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)        

laundromat's profile picture
The straight vain agitator is not going to be the right type for this model because the shaft for either agitator is different.The step down models have the straight vain agitator the upgrade model has the "Crewel action".If stacking them is necessary, I'd replace them with a front load set. I found the Sears outlet store here in Maryland has the Frigidaire Affinity sets going for under $1000


Post# 622054 , Reply# 20   9/2/2012 at 13:30 (4,225 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
New transmission and another new agitator sounds like the remedy. You should have a conversation with Sears. Since you've had four warranty repairs (this makes five) on the same unresolved problem, they will likely allow you to return the machine for credit so you can select something else. I would have that sitting on their dock after repair number two, your patience is nearly heroic!

Post# 622505 , Reply# 21   9/4/2012 at 06:42 (4,224 days old) by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA)        

I've got the same unit and beat mine up pretty good and never have had that problem. This is the second unit I've had in two houses and both have run years with nothing like that.

Post# 622563 , Reply# 22   9/4/2012 at 15:10 (4,223 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
my MIL has this same exact unit...no issues so far, bought in 2002......

but keep in mind, there may be a tranny issue......the agitator does not spin at the same speed as the tub during spin, and locked together like many others such as Speed Queen and GE filterflos, and something may be getting caught....

for the most part, this is not a big issue that affects performance.....it should work fine with this indifference


Post# 622579 , Reply# 23   9/4/2012 at 16:16 (4,223 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)        
WOW, this is a really interesting issue

kenmoreguy64's profile picture
I agree with Martin - sounds like you have a transmission issue, which is causing the agitator's fins to contact clothes when there is too much drag, such as in an empty tub or during spin. I can't imagine the noise that you're hearing when this happens.

Here's what I'd do -- since warranty is out, you may have an uphill battle on your hands, so prepare everything ahead of time:

1) First, get all your warranty receipt paperwork out, and organize it first to most recent. Make copies to give away and keep your originals.

2) Second, get the paperwork from the repairs or parts you bought yourself.

3) Third, and perhaps most importantly, take a video of the washer operating, especially during the time when you would normally hear the breaking fins. If you need to have the lid-switch 'rigged' so this can be done with the lid up, use a popsicle stick, a slim toothbrush handle, a screwdriver, or whatever you can find to activate the lid switch and keep it activated so you can video your machine.

4) Fourth - show us the video - you may have to post it on youtube, so people who know this machine well will see the problem. I am nearly certain someone will recognize the issue easily.

5) Last - prepare your facts, and write it all down and send Sears a registered letter stating that you had the machine repaired under warranty x number of times for the same highly unusual problem, that it was never fixed, and that it persists today. Show them your paperwork that you organized above, and show them the video, then tell them what you want. Make sure you know what you want before you start - either a satisfactory repair with an extended warranty in case the problem recurs, OR a replacement. Don't start a potential battle with Sears until you know what you want from the outcome.

If that fails to get you any results, 'suggest' to them that you're going to post the video on Youtube in regard to how Sears took your money, sold you an unsatisfactory machine that was supposedly operational from their outlet, and that they refuse to stand by it after it obviously malfunctions continually.

See what happens... I have a feeling that calm heads will prevail here.

Gordon


Post# 622841 , Reply# 24   9/5/2012 at 19:30 (4,222 days old) by nashvegas ()        

Okay, you all are my new heroes! Gordon, it's that kind of directive that I really needed - a step-by-step instructional guide. Actually, much of what you recommended is what I've been thinking about doing. Thank you so much for the nudge. I will do all of that and report back to you all. Thanks again!!!


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