Thread Number: 42587
Persil Disinfectant Rinse
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Post# 626646   9/21/2012 at 19:09 (4,206 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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I went exploring another site thanks to a post here about dishwasher detergent, and I stumbled across this product: Persil Hygiene Disinfectant Rinse. I was curious if anyone knows anything about it.

The one problem I see is that amount used might well be geared to front load machines (it is a European product), which might be too little for a top load (the chemicals could get diluted too much). One could use more, but at nearly twenty dollars a bottle that could get expensive fast.


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Post# 626658 , Reply# 1   9/21/2012 at 20:07 (4,206 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
We've Had A Few Discussions Here In The Group On Hygiene

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Basically it is Henkel Germany's answer to the loss of sanitizing power that comes from the modern trend of doing laundry at temps of 100F or less, and or without the use of oxygen bleach (chlorine was never really popular in Germany for laundry purposes), instead of the traditional boil washes.

Persil's product is basically a quat based disinfectant sort of along the lines as what commercial laundries have been using for years. Laundries that do washing for nappy service, health spas, hospital linens etc... add such chemicals to the final rinse to ensure any *germs* not killed off during the washing process have been dealt with. Some products also leave a residue that continues to keep bacteria levels down as the clean laundry is in storage, and or prevent it from developing a musty or moulderng whiff as well.


Post# 626664 , Reply# 2   9/21/2012 at 20:17 (4,206 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Yes, the product designed for 5kg or so front loading washing machines. If used in a high dilution top loading washer you'd have to calcuate out the dosage ratio per gallon of water and scale product use up to obtain equal benefits.



Post# 626687 , Reply# 3   9/21/2012 at 22:34 (4,206 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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This product was introduced shortly after Persil launched a liquid detergent for cold-water washing - Persil ActiPower. Now, ain't that a coincidence, or what?

*thumbs down*


Post# 626715 , Reply# 4   9/22/2012 at 02:09 (4,205 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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As always, thanks Launderess for your knowledge!

Post# 626717 , Reply# 5   9/22/2012 at 02:15 (4,205 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        
Now, ain't that a coincidence, or what?

lordkenmore's profile picture
Yes it sure is!

Interesting: we can save hot water (cost and environmental impact) by using fancy detergents and maybe additives which could possibly cost more than the hot water, and put more strange chemicals out in the environment.


Post# 626723 , Reply# 6   9/22/2012 at 04:51 (4,205 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

Same thing with dishwashers. Crappy detergents can now be made better by buying so called "Power Boosters" at additional cost of course.

Post# 626726 , Reply# 7   9/22/2012 at 05:10 (4,205 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
One Must Understand

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Henkel Germany's Persil H's website also points this out in that the product is designed for items that *cannot* withstand hot water laundering and or bleaches.

Things such as man made fiber (Lycra, polyester, nylon, etc...) that are an increasing part of everyday wardrobes. This is quite true for many female undergarments including knickers. Indeed various quat based rinse products have long been sold in Germany and elsewhere in the EU(Carsten is one example) for ladies to use when laundering intimate apparel after a bout of and or to prevent yeast infections.


Post# 626729 , Reply# 8   9/22/2012 at 06:05 (4,205 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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Similar products have been on the market in Germany for a longer time. Brand names are Impresan and Sagrotan. The German word for it is "Hygienespüler".

Post# 626731 , Reply# 9   9/22/2012 at 06:28 (4,205 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        
Mr. Hughes? Calling Mr. Hughes! Howard!!!

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Good Lord! How did all of us who grew up during the Fifties and Sixties, not suffer from multiple dermatological diseases? 

 

All we had was Controlled Sudsing Dash and a top loader.

 

I think the idea that one can completely eliminate microorganisms in the household is folly.

 

One must remember the PhisoHex debacle. Great in hospitals when used by nurses who know what they're doing; potentially disastrous when not.


Post# 626732 , Reply# 10   9/22/2012 at 07:30 (4,205 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Nothing better them coating ones underwear in disinfectant.

Yes, there are several of these products around: from the uber-expensive Persil to cheaper store brands. Even stain removes, such as Vanish, can be had in an anti-bacterial formula. Sagrotan, our most famous disinfectant, offers a powder that, as they claim, is save for all fabrics and colors. Well, it's basically pure oxy bleach! So much for 'save for colors' and 'especially formulated to kill bacteria'.

I don't know the last time I saw a Henkel commercial for powder. All that's on TV is young mothers in their white homes, sniffing clean laundry that has just been washed in cold water using a new Persil GelPack, complaining about the sour smell laundry used to get before Persil invented that disinfectant rinse. Now, you can have clean and fresh laundry even in cold water, saving .25 Cents in electricity. Never mind that the use of a GelPack and Hygienespüler will cost you about three times as much...

Alex


Post# 626733 , Reply# 11   9/22/2012 at 07:56 (4,205 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
"Nurses who knew what they were doing..."

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Nurses used what hospitals/facilities supplied and or their education and experience told them was deemed proper. In the case of Hexachlorophene like so many other disinfectants,antibacterial products science of long term exposure took a back seat to the supposed benefits. It wasn't until newborn infants began to die after being bathed with soaps/cleansers containing the stuff and or rates of cancer became attributed to it that corrective steps were taken.

In general the medical community have found most all phenol derived chemicals are bad for humans. Some of the first "antibacterial" soaps such as carbolic contained phenols as did the most celebrated disinfectant "Lysol" band. The first has been banned in many countries and the latter no longer contains the stuff.

Housekeeping/nursing staff thought they were doing the right thing when cleaning down nursery equipment including infant beds with phenol based disinfectants, that was until an outbreak of baby deaths was traced back to the stuff (apparently cleaned items weren't rinsed and or retained enough residue to poison), and subsequently lead to it's removal from hospital use.

Oxygen bleach and colors:

In general oxygen bleach will not remove nor alter colourfast dyes. However repeated exposure especially at hot or boil wash temps and with activated products may cause certain textiles to fade over time. Many "colour safe/protecting" detergents such as certain formulas of Cheer contain small amounts of oxygen bleaching agents to counter the chlorine found in most local tap water.


Sanitising Laundry:

Know certain persons are tired of hearing this, but again many of my vintage laundry manuals point to studies/tests that were done when soap was main "detergent" for laundry day and bacteria removal from textiles. Long story short one or two washings in warm or hot water with enough soap and through rinses following left laundry pretty much "santitised". Later commercial laundry groups repeated the studies and came up with the same results.

The action of alkaline laundry agents (detergents or soaps), along with hot or warm water, and the mechanical action of the washing machine kill, inactivate, disloge or whatever you want a large portion of "germs" on laundry. Subsequent rinses go further and the upshot is while the germs may have been flushed down the drains alive they are off one's laundry and that is all which matters.

Subsequent machine tumble drying and or ironing further has a disinfecting action which deals with any remaining germs.

Henkel/Persil is not alone in worrying about the modern trend of cold/cool water washing and the spread of germs, but they are at odds with consumer groups and or governments that want and or indeed are mandating reduction in energy use for laundry.


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Post# 626757 , Reply# 12   9/22/2012 at 09:10 (4,205 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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I wonder what is worse, use more energy to get the laundry done properly or fill the environment with all those chemicals. Henkel might be worried, launching a chemical isn't exactly the right thing to do. I guess some people might add this to every load of laundry in order to keep their washer mold free.

I bought some of the stuff, also the fabric softener Impresan brought out, but I am using it only on the occasion of a cold etc.


Post# 626828 , Reply# 13   9/22/2012 at 14:30 (4,205 days old) by mrwash ()        

I am an occasional user of hygiene liquid. I use it for my uniform that I wear in the airplane during the flight. I can't wash some parts of the uniform hotter than 104° F but when people vomit right next to you on the ground or even on you, you really get the desire to bath yourself in that hygiene rinse. I also use it, when someone in our house is sick. Recently one family member had the norovirus and in those cases I also use such products.

Post# 626917 , Reply# 14   9/22/2012 at 20:59 (4,205 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
You know -

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I use Ammonia in my laundry when I wash colors along with powdered detergent.

It also says on the back of the bottle of Pine Sol that you can use it in laundry and I've tried using a little a times but I like Ammonia better. Pine Sol smells too strong and a drop of that stuff goes a long way.

But this hygiene chemical goes into the rinse. Hmmm


Post# 626921 , Reply# 15   9/22/2012 at 21:13 (4,205 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Household Ammonia

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Is an alkaline gas suspended in water. Aside from whatever cleaning/degreasing properties it posesses ammonia is not a disinfectant.

Pine cleaners must contain a certain percentage of pure oils to be certified as a disinfectant by the EPA. If the bottle or package does not have an EPA registration number then the product is merely a cleaner and has little to nil disinfectant properties other than again cleaning and otherwise providing sanitation.



Post# 627132 , Reply# 16   9/23/2012 at 18:34 (4,204 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Reading The Bottle

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Persil again makes it clear the stuff is really for use for washing done in warm or cold water.

This does not mean one couldn't add it to every wash load regardless, but there you are then.

Thing about this product you really cannot skimp on the dosage without going through swab and culture of the wash to see how "low one can go", and still obtain disinfecting results. Bottle gives 90ml (one cap) dosage directions for both washing machine and handwash (in 2.5L of water)use, so obviously there's little wiggle room unless you've got your own lab to run experiments.

Anyone considering purchasing this product make sure the seller has new stock and isn't shipping old goods. Each bottle has an expiration date and while the stuff is probably good for a period afterwards, if one truly is depending upon it for disinfection you'd want it full strength.

Oh am also guessing Persil designed this product with standard "ll pound" EU front loaders in mind. Have no idea how much more if any product would be required for American uber-sized washers.


Post# 627270 , Reply# 17   9/24/2012 at 10:08 (4,203 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Yes

mark_wpduet's profile picture
I'm aware household Ammonia doesn't disinfect : )

It seems to help with some stains and it's not very expensive so I have been using it in colors for a couple of years now.

I know someone on another forum a while back mentioned that they use the brown bottle of old fashioned Lysol when they do laundry; but again, that's not in the rinse.


Post# 627346 , Reply# 18   9/24/2012 at 17:36 (4,203 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Lysol Sold Today No Longer Carries An EPA Number

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Purchased several older NOS bottles of older fromula Lysol a few years ago from a hardware store that was going out of business. These carried the EPA registration number and give directions for and even state "disinfectant" on the label/box. The new stuff (in the same brown bottle) does not make the same claims.

IIRC there were some concerns about phenol residue and such so Reckitt-B changed the formula.

Now yes, back in the day one could add Lysol to a laundry load for disinfection, but am here to tell you the odor lingered on laundry for ages. It also remained in the washing machine for the duration and in some cases never totally left.


The original Lysol was a phenol compound in a soap solution. This is why it turned water cloudy and often left hard surfaces with a dull film if not rinsed away totally.

Personally though one has the aforementioned bottles of the stuff, vintage Lysol is some pretty toxic stuff. After using it to say clean the bathrooms will open all the windows to air house out. Would *NEVER* use the stuff if one had infants and or children in the home.

Finally as for "disinfecting" laundry it is universally almost best to add whatever chemicals to the first or last rinse (depending upon what is being used) than to the main wash. Soils and the germs on wash can and will deactivate a good portion of chemical disinfectant. This means greater amounts must be used to reach the same affect. In such cases the disinfectant is dealing with the reduced pathogen load left over from the wash rather than taking on the full army.



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