Thread Number: 42665
Handsome KDI-20 Back In Service
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Post# 627833   9/27/2012 at 00:33 (4,201 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

I returned yesterday from spending a few days in Tucson with Nate and David.  I was only joking this past Friday night when I cast an oblique curse on Nate's Signature 2000 dishwasher as I placed one final item into it, but damned if that machine didn't proceed to fracture its motor fan and screech its way through completion of the remaining cycle sequences.  Destination:  curbside.

 

Long story short:  We had spotted the pictured KDI-20 earlier that same day at a local re-store.  After Replacement Plan A failed, Roger and I went back to the re-store this past Monday and $30 later the Imperial was on its way to the rescue.

 

This machine is super clean inside and out.  Someone had apparently run jars with labels through it and there was paper covering the mesh filter.  Easily dealt with, and after mitigating fill valve issues the Imperial was secured in its enclosure and provided with a load of nicely soiled items for its trial run.  It did a fine job.  This model did not come equipped with a rinse aid dispensing system, but the wiring is all there to operate one.  A KDS-20 dispenser is readily available to harvest for installation if desired.  In the meantime, there is a blank insert where the rinse aid filler cap is usually found.

 

I think this model has a very nice looking commercial grade control panel.  It would be stunning with stainless door and access panel inserts. 

 

The picture is blurry, but captures the details on the panel better than the shot I took using the flash.  From left to right the cycle selector buttons are:  Pots & Pans/Soak & Scrub, Heavy Wash, Low Energy Wash, Rinse & Hold, and No Heat Dry.  It's a sweet machine whose time to shine has come around once more.  Yay!





Post# 627861 , Reply# 1   9/27/2012 at 06:46 (4,201 days old) by AutoWasherFreak ()        

Nice KitchenAid!


Post# 627867 , Reply# 2   9/27/2012 at 07:38 (4,201 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
Very nice machine - now, how to keep Nate interested in it? Before long, a WCI underdog will catch his eye and you know what happens then... Bless his heart :-)

I doubt your spell-casting powers are strong enough to damage the KitchenAid quite yet, but the Montgomery Ward Signature 2000 (LOL) is a good machine to practice on!


Post# 627900 , Reply# 3   9/27/2012 at 11:49 (4,200 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

You are so right, Greg!  We must hope that nothing on the curbs of Tucson catches his roving eyes or it will be deja-vu all over again.

 

I issued a challenge should I return during the holiday season, stating that I was resigned to the Imperial being gone by then.  I was assured that this wouldn't happen so long as the Imperial continues to perform.  Odds would seem to be stacked against another marginal machine showing up based on that statement, but we're all aware of the boy's weakness in this regard.

 

Sidebar:  The Wards machine sat on the curb unclaimed for two days.  Wanting to keep up appearances, on the third day Nate pulled it back onto the driveway.  I suggested that the cars we saw slow down and then speed away either saw the Signature brand or that the "2000" designation was an indicator of the machine's age.  My recommendation of pasting over the "2000" with "2012" fell flat.


Post# 627937 , Reply# 4   9/27/2012 at 16:52 (4,200 days old) by mitch (Atlanta)        
Good deal!

Love seeing these! I cannot tell you how much I have been enjoying my Superba Monterey! One funny thing I have noticed is it will actually put pin holes in the disposable aluminum pans I use when grilling! I have had to toss 3 of these pans. That machine will move some water :)

Post# 628002 , Reply# 5   9/27/2012 at 21:43 (4,200 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA)        

redcarpetdrew's profile picture
Does that mean I should refrain from telling him about any orphans that show up in The Pile behind our shop? I COULD dangle pics of dishwasher "bait" thinking he's safely in Tucson only to find him knocking on the back door to our shop in Reno before the image has even finished uploading... Hee hee hee!

Ralph, didn't you remember to gorilla glue the K/A into the space? He'd have to rip the cabinets out to put in anything he finds. Nate would never do th... Oh, yeah... He'd do it.

Never mind...

RCD


Post# 628008 , Reply# 6   9/27/2012 at 22:45 (4,200 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
The Pile

rp2813's profile picture

Andy, I think you can post all you want.  Logistics are on "our" side.  ;-)

 

BTW, this KDI-20 still had the two square black rubber shipping bumpers hanging on the rear of the lower rack.  I've never even seen those before.


Post# 628151 , Reply# 7   9/28/2012 at 18:56 (4,199 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
never turning back???

I can appreciate a vintage machine as well as the next guy or gal but why would anyone want to take such a backwards step as to stepdown from a 20 series Kitchenaid, especially like that Imperial? It has capacity, good looks and a great washing system. And it heats the water for you and even can dry the dishes faster than any new machine out there.
Admittedly it is not a 21 thru 23 series which will outwash this machine, but he might be hard pressed to actually see the difference and IIRC, the Imperial may have 2 full final rinses.

Did WCI ever make any dishwasher worthy of being called one?


Post# 628188 , Reply# 8   9/28/2012 at 20:59 (4,199 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA)        
Carefully, Steve! Those are fightin words to Nate...

redcarpetdrew's profile picture
Oooohhhh, that might start an argument. LOL! We might even get Phil riled up, too...

RCD


Post# 628210 , Reply# 9   9/28/2012 at 22:57 (4,199 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Well, even though it squealed its way through the process, the Signature was Bob Loaded for its fateful final run and I must admit it got everything to sparkle.  But as with anything that carries a Signature badge, longevity was not its strong suit.

 

The Imperial is a good ten years older than the Signature and will probably last ten years longer.  Let's face it, though.  Not all of those ten years will be spent in the Marler kitchen.  Variety is the spice of life, after all.




This post was last edited 09/29/2012 at 01:05
Post# 628246 , Reply# 10   9/29/2012 at 05:39 (4,199 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Stevet

jetcone's profile picture
you're telling me my KDP-20 is not as good a machine?? It can't wash? It can't compare to my 14?? whats 21-23 got that my 20 doesn't.

'splain yourself Lucy!



Post# 628320 , Reply# 11   9/29/2012 at 13:34 (4,198 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
20 vs. 21-23

rp2813's profile picture

One thing I noticed while listening intently to the Imperial during the early stages of its maiden wash cycle was that the hydrosweep wash arm rotates quite a bit faster than on 21-23 machines.  I presume this has something to do with non-reversing motor vs. reversing.  And of course the obvious difference is the heating element in the sump on the 20 series and the related delay before washing action starts vs. the automatic and continuous water heating on the 21-23 models with the element positioned above the tub floor.

 

We'll have to wait for Steve's explanation to find out if either of these differences factor into the statement he made above.


Post# 629021 , Reply# 12   10/2/2012 at 16:51 (4,195 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
tap tap tap

jetcone's profile picture
...tap!!



Post# 629079 , Reply# 13   10/2/2012 at 20:31 (4,195 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        
tap tap tap

qsd-dan's profile picture

Same goes for you ;>)

 

I'm still impatiently waiting for Rosalie to become available for purchase.


Post# 629168 , Reply# 14   10/3/2012 at 08:00 (4,194 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
KA DW Cleaning Ability

combo52's profile picture

There was little difference in the overall cleaning ability between the 18-23 series DWs, and in fact the 18-20s were a little better than the 21-22s. While it is true that the pump was redesigned and beefed up in the 21-22 and an extra fine filter and grinder were added these improvements were mostly negated by the reduction of water used and most of all the move to only one final rinse. The grinder in the 21-22 was nearly useless because the food bits could not get into the grinder due to the filter and lift out trap design, you were basically still left fishing food out of the DWs sump after a cycle when compared to D&Ms, GEs and WPs Power-Clean systems. MT also never made a DW with a decent food waste disposal system in any of their DWs as the pumps cover plate held back too much garbage to rot and smell in an area that was impossible to clean without removal of the pump cover.


Post# 629204 , Reply# 15   10/3/2012 at 14:01 (4,194 days old) by Maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)        
Really now?

I never had a problem with odors from my Maytag WC400.....I did have to clean the coarse filter in the sump fairly often, but the MicroMesh filter system worked really well for us.



Lawrence/Maytagbear


Post# 629273 , Reply# 16   10/3/2012 at 20:13 (4,194 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Dan all I can say is

jetcone's profile picture
I'm working day and night to get it to market.

I'll let you know as soon as I do!

jet


Post# 629282 , Reply# 17   10/3/2012 at 21:35 (4,194 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
Filtering

rp2813's profile picture

I'll go on record here and report that in over 20 years of combined use, I've never had to fish anything out of the sump or coarse filter on my KDI-21 or ISE Classic Supreme (KDP-22 clone if KA had made one) or encountered any sort of accumulated goop in any portion of the filtering system.   I'm not inclined to rush out and buy some Lotto quick picks as a result.


Post# 629285 , Reply# 18   10/3/2012 at 22:25 (4,194 days old) by FEster (Lafayette La USA)        
Hyperbole

Slow and steady wins the race. Old school and bomb proof trumps new fangled fancy featured every day! But then that's just me and I've been accused of being difficult on more than one occasion.

FEster


Post# 629294 , Reply# 19   10/3/2012 at 23:37 (4,194 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
Hrrph

roto204's profile picture
Oh, I see what y'all have been up to. :-)

No, after a weekend of losing first one dishwasher (the Wards) and then the Superba-20, I was damned near ready to go to Sears and get anything that wouldn't break five minutes later. But welcome to the thrill of vintage appliances. :-)

Regarding KA's wash system, this one does fabulously. Its only nemeses so far: Cake batter, and marinara sauce, both of which were sufficient to completely coat and plug the fine filter screen and stop all wash action after several seconds, until I drained the machine, rinsed the goop off the filter, and reset the cycle. A minor detail, to be sure, and one that can be circumvented by a good scraping-off before loading.


Post# 629296 , Reply# 20   10/3/2012 at 23:44 (4,194 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
:-)

roto204's profile picture
"Very nice machine - now, how to keep Nate interested in it?"

Paste a "Caloric" badge over the front. ;-)


Post# 629311 , Reply# 21   10/4/2012 at 03:16 (4,194 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA)        
Paste a "Caloric" badge over the front. ;-)

redcarpetdrew's profile picture
Won't that cause a potentially higher chance of breakdown or rust thru? At the very least, it'll run louder...

Ducks and runs!

RCD


Post# 629320 , Reply# 22   10/4/2012 at 06:45 (4,194 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
KA KDSS-20

combo52's profile picture

Nate my KA it will sometimes clog the wash filter in less than a minute when I put the blender container and a few glasses in a load after making Jon C inspired fruit smoothies. When this happens I stop it clean the wash filter and hit cancel-drain and start over. Usually on this DW I do a R&H cycle first with a little detergent to flush away some of the food soil and warm-up the machine and dishes, then start the Heavy Wash cycle this cuts way down on the time necessary for silly per-heating of the first fill in the sump, I don't know who ever though this was a good way to start a DW cycle but it is obvious way no one else did it and why WP abandoned it when they started to redesign KA DWs with the 23 series.


Post# 629364 , Reply# 23   10/4/2012 at 11:26 (4,193 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
At the very least, it'll run louder...

rp2813's profile picture

OMG!  This just occurred to me:

 

If only Harley Davidson made dishwashers.  I think someone would find them irresistible.  Ward's Signatures would be quiet and reliable in comparison. 


Post# 629366 , Reply# 24   10/4/2012 at 11:29 (4,193 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA)        
Actually...

redcarpetdrew's profile picture
They would have the same breakdown rate and sound level. The only advantage the sound level has is saving you the dramatic cost to operate that little neon 'on' light to know its running... LOL!

RCD


Post# 629369 , Reply# 25   10/4/2012 at 11:59 (4,193 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        
If Harley Davidson made dishwashers......

revvinkevin's profile picture

 

 

Wow that has got the gears in my mind turning!   

 

"Hmm... I could take that KDS-18 I have, go buy a used Harley engine and............."

 

Laughing   Tongue out   Tongue out   Laughing  


Post# 629500 , Reply# 26   10/4/2012 at 23:24 (4,193 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
H-D Dishwashers

roto204's profile picture
Andy - touche about the rust-through. That's why I like the WCIs with soil "separator" and polypropylene tub! GE called it PermaTuf; I think WCI called it QuasiStrong ;-)

John - I'm glad I'm not the only one! It's quite disconcerting when the wash action just stops but the motor keeps running. Sheesh!

Ralph - Hey, could we design a dishwasher like Eddy's Speed Queen with a padded leather control panel and chrome trim?


Post# 629501 , Reply# 27   10/4/2012 at 23:28 (4,193 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
Nate --

rp2813's profile picture

Sounds like fun!  Get out the drawing board and maybe you can lure me back down there sooner rather than later!


Post# 629513 , Reply# 28   10/5/2012 at 02:31 (4,193 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
I have to agree with John

jetcone's profile picture
I find it frustrating to load my KDP- 20, start it and NOTHING happens for 15 minutes! Never seen a DW do that.
I'll try that pre-rinse to get things going for sure. Mine is almost finished restoring, it seems my pre wash soap dispenser is not working, the bimetal motor is not disengaging so the door never snaps open. Once I get over that hurdle it's into service.



Post# 629619 , Reply# 29   10/5/2012 at 10:05 (4,192 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
KDP-20

combo52's profile picture

Jon it is easy to bypass the silly sump heating if your water temperature in your house is near 140 degrees and you can also add a relay so when the DW is running through the cycle it will always energize both heaters [ giving 1400 watts of boost instead of just 700 watts, makes a huge difference I did this with my KDS-16 in the W Va house ], however to utilize this the DW must be on a separate 12 ga. 20 amp breaker, call for details.



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