Thread Number: 42977
SQ FL vs Miele 3033 |
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Post# 632403 , Reply# 3   10/17/2012 at 19:47 (4,179 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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First thing is to make sure there is local Miele service in your area. If there isn't you could be waiting weeks for a service call as Miele must schedule someone from the nearest area which could be the next city or even state.
Both SQ and Miele have excellent build quality but offer differences that mainly affect how one does the wash. SQ washers are basically the same as their on premises/laundromat machines with a few more bells and whistles. Cycle wise things are what they are with little room for customer modifications. In short a washing machine built to process laundry quickly day in and day out for years. Miele washers allow various consumer (and tech if one knows how to get into the system) variable such as increasing water levels, number of rinses, and so forth. The heater on Miele units is more engaged than on SQ IIRC. Parts: If you are handy working on all but the most difficult job on a SQ *should* in theory be easy as parts are local to the USA. MieleUSA OTHO is the only supplier of parts for those machines so even if you do the repair yourself you still are on the hook for paying whatever they charge for parts. If you can match the American unit to a EU counterpart it *may* be cheaper to source parts abroad (unlike the USA in the UK or Europe one can purchase Miele spares all over the place, not just from the company), but depending upon exchange rates it may not be *that* much cheaper and you still would have to pay postage. Being as this may quite honestly once the first year is out anything that was going to go wrong should have done so by then, so if you purchase Miele things should be good for ten or so more years. Long as one does not abuse the unit and otherwise takes proper care. However all things made by man can and do break down. There are complaints about Miele units < five years needed expensive repairs and Miele not offering to foot the bill. |
Post# 632516 , Reply# 5   10/18/2012 at 06:50 (4,178 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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I am the member who owns both the Speed Queen Imperial set and the Miele. I have had the Miele set in operation since mid-July.
If I had to buy a set all over again, knowing what I know now and having used both machines, I would have to choose the Speed Queen set over the Miele. Its just a hands down better built machine! Malcolm |
Post# 632674 , Reply# 7   10/18/2012 at 19:22 (4,178 days old) by vacfanatic ()   |   | |
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Post# 632675 , Reply# 8   10/18/2012 at 19:23 (4,178 days old) by vacfanatic ()   |   | |
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Post# 632677 , Reply# 10   10/18/2012 at 19:24 (4,178 days old) by vacfanatic ()   |   | |
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Post# 632681 , Reply# 11   10/18/2012 at 19:28 (4,178 days old) by Iowegian ()   |   | |
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Does anyone know the preferred brand of laundromat equipment in the EU? Or Oz/NZ? Just curious, because SQ/Alliance seems to be the dominant player in the U.S. and I was wondering who has that role elsewhere. |
Post# 632685 , Reply# 12   10/18/2012 at 19:40 (4,178 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Post# 632787 , Reply# 13   10/19/2012 at 03:15 (4,178 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)   |   | |
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We've recently done a very long (6,000 miles long!) return holiday by car to Western Australia and back which has required use of the odd caravan park laundry every now and then.
Generally speaking, Maytag and SQ top loaders have been the order of the day...none of which I felt actually cleaned my clothes particularly well. They were, however, fast. On another note, for those of you contemplating a holiday in Oz, consider caravan parks as a very viable alternative to motels and hotels....2 bedroom fully self contained cabins (2 beds, bathroom, lounge/diner and full kitchen) were generally the same price as a reasonable motel room....staying with the big chains, cabins were scrupulously clean, private and it gave you options to self cater from BBQ to doing a roast. ...and these were one of the best. CLICK HERE TO GO TO ronhic's LINK |
Post# 632809 , Reply# 14   10/19/2012 at 08:10 (4,177 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Yes absolutely, Andrew all your pictures of your new Miele show all the cheap plastic fasteners and other plastic under the top. A SQ FL washer is much more rugged, also the cabinet is way too small on the Miele washer to allow a safe amount of room for the tub assembly to move without possible damage. Remember the SQs are true laundromat machines designed for a life of up to 25,000 loads, 2 1/2 times longer than Mieles estimated life of 10,000 loads.
A SQ FL Washer is built more like a tank where the Miele are built more German cars, very good engineering yes, but be prepared to pay for the machine more than once and if you live in the US be sure you have a backup washer for the long periods when you are trying to get it repaired. LOL |
Post# 632826 , Reply# 16   10/19/2012 at 10:48 (4,177 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Yes absolutely, Andrew all your pictures of your new Miele show all the cheap plastic fasteners and other plastic under the top. A SQ FL washer is much more rugged, also the cabinet is way too small on the Miele washer to allow a safe amount of room for the tub assembly to move without possible damage.
A SQ FL Washer is built more like a tank where the Miele are built more German cars, very good engineering yes, but be prepared to pay for the machine more than once and if you live in the US be sure you have a backup washer for the long periods when you are trying to get it repaired. LOL |
Post# 632897 , Reply# 18   10/19/2012 at 19:12 (4,177 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 633050 , Reply# 19   10/20/2012 at 14:36 (4,176 days old) by vsc (Chicago)   |   | |
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I made up my mind and ordered a SQ Imperial washer w/ base. The delivery date is still TBD. |
Post# 633110 , Reply# 20   10/20/2012 at 19:02 (4,176 days old) by bobo ()   |   | |
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Congrats on your purchase! Please keep us posted! |
Post# 633143 , Reply# 21   10/20/2012 at 22:44 (4,176 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 633765 , Reply# 25   10/23/2012 at 17:22 (4,173 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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Well, after having used both brands for a while, I would choose the Speed Queen over the Miele if I had to do it over.
However, I do not mean to imply that the Miele machine is a poor performer. That simply isn't true. Simply put, the HYPE over the Miele machines is a bit bloated for what it is. The Miele is not the Holy Grail that I believed it would be. It doesn't perform with the finesse that my Miele dishwasher does. It will BANG the sides of the cabinet when ramping up to spin. It has failed to determine whether or not the load has been distributed properly quite a few times. Rinsing is adequate, but no better than the Speed Queen, yet the Speed Queen seems to complete rinsing in less than half the time of the Miele. Now none of these issues/observations is a showstopper. I wont be dragging these machines to the curb. Will I keep these long term. Doubtful. But my normal routine is to cycle through machines every couple of years anyway. Malcolm |
Post# 634115 , Reply# 27   10/25/2012 at 02:35 (4,172 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)   |   | |
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If the device has any sort of electronic parts-they can be from almost anywhere.-even though the machine was "assembled" in the US. |
Post# 634311 , Reply# 28   10/25/2012 at 19:58 (4,171 days old) by vsc (Chicago)   |   | |
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Distribution for SQ finally came back with a date. I should have the Imperial at the end of next week. |
Post# 636658 , Reply# 33   11/5/2012 at 04:51 (4,160 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)   |   | |
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The machine would perform much better without the thin steel box underneath...
if you look at many commercial machines that are on pedestal bases or legs the metal is very thick in the corners or legs... You need the bottom of the suspension struts within the washer to be making contact with a solid floor with minimum distance....those box pedestals just enhance that gap and any deviation, vibration or judder is just multiplied. Also compound that with smooth ceramic tiles and "here comes ya washer meeting you at the door" you are wise to use sticky pads!! Happy washing, Mike |
Post# 636748 , Reply# 34   11/5/2012 at 14:43 (4,160 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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Generally, the technicians were being instructed to place the stand in position by itself. Perform leveling and lock the feet into position, then mark the floor with the position of the stand. Mount the stand on the machine and then place into position. Fine tune as needed.
The afterwards instructions were to balance and lock the legs into postion without the rubber pads in place. Then install the rubber feet. Malcolm |
Post# 636922 , Reply# 37   11/6/2012 at 02:49 (4,160 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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Post# 636926 , Reply# 38   11/6/2012 at 04:34 (4,159 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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Post# 636958 , Reply# 40   11/6/2012 at 08:19 (4,159 days old) by vsc (Chicago)   |   | |
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Speed Queen is working to resolve... |
Post# 636999 , Reply# 41   11/6/2012 at 11:37 (4,159 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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Post# 637168 , Reply# 43   11/6/2012 at 23:32 (4,159 days old) by qualin (Canada)   |   | |
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I'm sorry to hear that you've been having issues with your machine. I wedged a block of wood between the wall and my washer, that pretty much fixed it for me. What floor surface is the washer on? How badly does the drive belt slip? |
Post# 637171 , Reply# 44   11/6/2012 at 23:43 (4,159 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Are from taking a commercial washer and rejigging it for domestic use.
Miele and other EU makers of "commercial quality" domestic front loaders seem to have all but licked the vibration issue years ago for the most part. Miele will recommend support if the washer is to be located on a wooden or other non firm sort of floor, but other than that don't hear many complaints about vibrations. OTOH, getting a new front loader installed and level so it won't vibrate can often be a several day long process involving several four finger glasses of Bourbon, and or the tearing out of massive amounts of hair from one's head. It is rare that flooring other than concrete is perfectly level. Even the slightest incline or such can throw the "feet" off and require more fine tuning. Once spent days using a level to get my Miele "perfect" and the thing still would vibrate. So put in a heavy load, when the machine got to spinning stood there with a tool and adjusted each leg until the vibrations stopped. Now the machine will shake a bit with unbalanced loads, but it does not move and more often than not is smooth. |
Post# 637313 , Reply# 46   11/7/2012 at 11:18 (4,158 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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Post# 637406 , Reply# 48   11/7/2012 at 20:19 (4,158 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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As a SQ dealer that has sold Many SQ FL washers we have seen some issues with vibration, we have only taken one machine back that we tried to install on a fairly sloping wooden floor, we replaced it with a WP Cabrio which had no problems on the wooden floor. As a general rule I do not sell or recommend SQ FL washers if the floor is anything but very solid and usually concrete. I have never recommended or sold a pedestal for a SQ FL washer. Pedestals create problems with all FL washers but the SQ is likley worst than most. This is part of the price you pay to have a FL washer that goes about its business without lengthily delays while the machine attempts to balance. And as with any washer the SQ will work much better if you put loads of similar weight items in it and make sure that the loads are BIG enough to balance properly.
And no Laundress the SQ FL washer has not been rejiggered from a commercial machine for home use. All SQ FL washers are created equal, there is no difference between the home and commercial machines in construction. |
Post# 637421 , Reply# 49   11/7/2012 at 21:19 (4,158 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Well then perhaps wherein lies the problems with vibrations.
A commercial frontloader is more likely than not to be installed on a firm enough flooring to support the machine and not cause problems. OTHO domestic front loaders as one has stated upthread must be designed to work on a range of flooring situations even if the makers suggest concrete or similar solid floors are best. For what it is worth: CLICK HERE TO GO TO Launderess's LINK |
Post# 637820 , Reply# 51   11/9/2012 at 16:21 (4,156 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)   |   | |
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...but the mere thought that in 2012 I'd have to wedge a block of wood between my washer and the wall to prevent it hitting the wall is just archaic.
Designing reliable, strong and effective suspension solutions to counter the large inertial forces generated by spinning laundry has been well and truly licked by the Europeans for years. That SQ sells a machine that can not balance properly, for what ever reason, who correctly leveled is just slap-dash. I've had older Hoover front loaders that would rarely 'hit the cabinet', but moved no more than 1/2 inch if at all.....Italian Zanussi made machines that have never hit their cabinet or moved and a German made Blomberg that did neither. Level them side to side and the diagonals and away you go. No fuss and no mess. |
Post# 637854 , Reply# 52   11/9/2012 at 18:19 (4,156 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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I never had any machine walking issues with my SQ Imperials. Once the machine was properly leveled, it just ran without issue. I would doubt that the commercial user would wait around for a domestic machine to hang in its balance routine. And I am sure the owner of the laundromat would not be happy about it either.
Malcolm |
Post# 637861 , Reply# 53   11/9/2012 at 18:39 (4,156 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Do not fuss around with spinning either. Once it is time to spin that is what happens regardless. Have stood several feet away from the larger units (35lbs and 50lbs IIRC) and yes you can feel the vibrations from the machine through the floors. This despite sitting on concrete blocks and the same type of flooring.
However the problem is that severely unbalanced loads can damage the machines. The largest unit has been out of service more than once this past year because of bearing failures. This damage was caused by customers either packing the machine too full, or washing one or two *very* heavy items such as a featherbed or feather pillow. While commercial laundries do launder such things one assumes those machines can be programmed/set to know what the machine will deal with. |
Post# 637864 , Reply# 54   11/9/2012 at 19:05 (4,156 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 637925 , Reply# 55   11/9/2012 at 23:26 (4,156 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Since one only goes to this particular laundromat just for the 50lb washer,am quite put out when it is "out of order" for the several weeks it takes for repairs.
Last time that particular unit went out the attendant told me a customer loaded the washer so packed she probably used her feet and or whole body to shove all in all the washing. Apparently after the machine started one of the spins there was a loud noise then no move movment of the drum. Now of course English is not this person's native language so have no idea if he was told the bearing had failed by a repairman or simply was making an educated guess. Do know the washer was out of of order for several weeks. |
Post# 728663 , Reply# 56   1/19/2014 at 00:27 (3,721 days old) by UncleDave (California)   |   | |
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Post# 728709 , Reply# 57   1/19/2014 at 09:22 (3,720 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 728881 , Reply# 62   1/19/2014 at 19:33 (3,720 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 728898 , Reply# 63   1/19/2014 at 20:32 (3,720 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Not 27" IIRC but Miele USA does have the commercial "Little Giant" series of washers, and they are rated to hold fifteen pounds of washing.
The previous and now discontinued 4xxx series washing machines were some what misleading IMHO. Yes they were huge machines but everything one read stated you were supposed to load them only three-quarters full for "normal" cottons or such cycles. So in reality those machines probably held much less than many consumers assumed. CLICK HERE TO GO TO Launderess's LINK |
Post# 728900 , Reply# 64   1/19/2014 at 20:37 (3,720 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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In the USA was the now discontinued 4XXX series. All others including the 30XX and "Little Giant" units have SS outer tubs. However one *thinks* Miele does have fiberglass outer tubs on some of it's offerings in Europe.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO Launderess's LINK |
Post# 728931 , Reply# 67   1/19/2014 at 22:41 (3,720 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)   |   | |
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Yes Miele make a 10 kg rated PW6088 which is designed for 30,000 hours of operation which is equivalent to 30,000 wash loads as the cycles times are under an hour. Both inner and outer drums are stainless steel.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO mielerod69's LINK |
Post# 729012 , Reply# 68   1/20/2014 at 08:26 (3,719 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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Post# 729033 , Reply# 69   1/20/2014 at 10:08 (3,719 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))   |   | |
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Do not know the modell number, but it is on the Miele Professional USA web site! |
Post# 729040 , Reply# 70   1/20/2014 at 10:52 (3,719 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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Yes there is a version in BLUE sold over here in the states, but my retailer was not willing to sell them for use in a domestic installation. Noting that there was an obvious pinch point between the guts of the machine and the cabinet front. The liability issue of a child losing a finger to the machine would be suspect.
That and they would retail for just over $14,000. Require customer electrical service, and there is no parts network for them in the US. Malcolm |
Post# 729071 , Reply# 71   1/20/2014 at 14:21 (3,719 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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After the 4XXX series fiasco don't think we will be seeing any further 27" units from Miele for domestic use. Yes, you'll find them on higher end commercial machines but otherwise don't see it happening.
It must have been hugely shameful for Miele to pull the plug on those units after a few years of sales/production. |
Post# 729076 , Reply# 72   1/20/2014 at 14:38 (3,719 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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Post# 729079 , Reply# 73   1/20/2014 at 14:57 (3,719 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Sad thing is Miele is locked into stocking parts for fifteen or so years after last sale date.
When you think of all the R&D and production costs that went into that line am sure someone was sat down, if not lost their job after that disaster. IIRC Miele claimed it was poor sales that caused the decision, but I've heard different things from various sources. Will say for their cost the uber-sized Miele units were probably out classed by Whirlpool, Electrolux and even LG. |
Post# 729117 , Reply# 74   1/20/2014 at 16:37 (3,719 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)   |   | |
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.....which by definition would be at least 27" wide
Anything larger than 24"/60cm would be considered - 'out-sized' or 'extra large'.
For the majority of houses/flats/apartments in Europe and many in Australia where the tendency has been to build in front load appliances and where the cabinet sizes 'off the shelf' are 30/45/60/75/90cm, to go outside of the norm is to significantly increase the cost of any build just to put in an appliance that is wider with no tangible benefit.
If there was a tangible benefit, American 'full sized' front load appliances would be a significant player on the global stage, not just in the Americas.
They are not. |
Post# 729133 , Reply# 75   1/20/2014 at 17:38 (3,719 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Which is why the Miele uber-sized units failed IIRC. Miele only produced and sold the units for the North American market. That meant having just the one sales territory to recoup entire R&D, production and so forth costs.
As one recalls front loaders with 27" cabinets are not huge sellers in Europe. Just as American top loading washing machines have long come in a pretty tight range of sizes, same applies to the EU market. Miele probably tried to answer the complaints that has deviled their sales for laundry appliances from the start; consumers consider an 5kg or so capacity washer too "small". Thus outside of a small niche market many avoided Miele washing machines and dryers. Well there was that and the 220v power supply. In the end Miele solved the one problem but couldn't the other. It is worth noting that other German washer makers such as Bosch also quit the uber-sized market as well. This leaves only LG, Electrolux and a few others to duke it out. Problem is that with front loaders there is no free lunch. Most are happy when doing normal loads when done at or near capacity. Purchasing a 15lb washer for only the occasional laundering of a duvet but routine washing of five pounds is asking for trouble in some machines. They simply cannot balance those loads. This is becoming more and more of a problem as Americans move their laundry areas from basements with their solid concrete flooring to first or even second floors. |