Thread Number: 43387
Whirlpool FL washers accumulate mold, class action lawsuit says |
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Post# 637927   11/9/2012 at 23:52 (4,157 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)   |   | |
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No surprise to anyone here, but this story about a class action lawsuit for Oho residents against Whirlpool, from the Cleveland Plain Dealer newspaper, has some interesting tidbits:
Two Ohio women named on the complaint allege that their Whirlpool machines don't rinse out all detergent and fabric softener, and the laundry drum on the machines doesn't completely drain. That, in turn, causes the washers to gather mold, they allege. ********** The suit, before U.S. District Judge James Gwin, alleges that as mold problems became "undeniable," Whirlpool began recommending that machine owners run three successive cleaning cycles with a Whirlpool tablet called Affresh. That conflicts with Whirlpool's promotion of the washers as high-efficiency, according to the suit. Several entrepreneurs responded to an "avalanche of consumer complaints" by designing products such as SmellyWasher and NuFreshNow to address mold problems, the lawsuit says. A lawyer for the Whirlpool owners, Jonathan Selbin, said complaints multiplied because the company didn't adequately explain to owners of front-loading washers that they required different upkeep than top-loading machines. "They're filled with gunk that gathers on the back wall behind the drum," said Selbin, at the New York office of Lieff, Cabraser, Heimman & Bernstein. "Their own internal documents all talk about the fact that they created a machine that's an ideal environment for mold growth." Whirlpool, based in Benton Harbor, Mich., said in a court filing that the machines come with explicit guidelines on how to prevent the formation of mold -- described as "biofilm" -- including leaving the washing machine door open between uses so moisture can escape. Whirlpool said at least 97 percent of all washer buyers have never experienced mold or odors and can't show any injury. Problems that did arise came from the "abuse, misuse or improper use of the washers," Whirlpool said in its defense. CLICK HERE TO GO TO Supersuds's LINK |
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Post# 637930 , Reply# 1   11/10/2012 at 00:35 (4,157 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))   |   | |
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My 14yo FL smells faintly like Tide HE and nothing else. All I do is towel the boot and NOT use softener.
Softener is only a good idea if you're in the business of selling softener. It gloms machinery and waterproofs towels. And it DOES grow mold. Howcome this was never a problem with the Westinghouse FLs I grew up with? We didn't even towel the boot and it didn't have drain holes. But softener hadn't been invented yet. Neither had class-action lawsuits that I know of. This reeks of idle lawyers looking for a hook issue and they found a few dumb hausfraus to leverage it off of. And I wouldn't end a sentence with TWO prepositions if I weren't somewhat indignant. |
Post# 637943 , Reply# 2   11/10/2012 at 03:06 (4,157 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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Well my WP machine is approaching 8 yrs old and doesn't smell like mold. It smells like a hint of Tide HE too. I DO use liquid fab softener. But I purposely buy the cheap kind that is already somewhat watered down and I dilute it with white vinegar and there's no build up, even on the outer drum. You can see the heating element if you use a flashlight in the tub if you look at a certain angle.
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Post# 637970 , Reply# 4   11/10/2012 at 06:19 (4,157 days old) by donprohel (I live in Munich - Germany, but I am Italian)   |   | |
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I wonder if there is any connection between the fact that only in USA front-loading washing machines accumulate mould and the fact that only in UK enzyme detergents cause allergies. Just a doubt... |
Post# 638041 , Reply# 8   11/10/2012 at 12:26 (4,156 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)   |   | |
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I have had what now seams to be hundreds of front loading washing machines. None of which EVER got ANY mold anywhere. The only times I have seen any mold on a front loading washer, it was caused by user ignorance and/or abuse. Now,most brands have a device that holds the door open to iliminate any growth of fungus and helps keep the interior fresher. |
Post# 638057 , Reply# 9   11/10/2012 at 13:07 (4,156 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)   |   | |
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Homemaking skills will not be improved by winning a lawsuit.
The judge would declare a mis-trial if I were on the jury. 'Can we have a peek inside these women's refrigerators, their ovens and the floor behind the toilet?' But I'm sure they won't have too much trouble finding a jury of these women's peers, sad to say. |
Post# 638070 , Reply# 10   11/10/2012 at 14:44 (4,156 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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This is a VERY interesting thread....and say that for a fact of taking a survey.....
WHAT if you were on this JURY....how would you side on who is to blame, or at fault for such?...... I don't think I would favor either side, more of a 50/50 mistrial.... you have consumers who have no clue of doing laundry, or just plain negligence of operating a FLer, not to mention a traditional TLer... and then you have a company like Whirlpool, who puts out a machine, that is not put into full detail to a consumer of its operation, or maintenance required..... and then theres the silent partner, The Government, who insist on a Low water usage High Efficient machine, but not Highly Effective at doing its function, within these guidelines..... it just seems were gonna hit a NO WIN scenario..... but a lawsuit so ludacrist, would have the consumer winning...... What do you guys think, or how would you favor? |
Post# 638075 , Reply# 11   11/10/2012 at 15:20 (4,156 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))   |   | |
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My prejudice would be that these owners were raised by wolves. And that only the plaintiff's lawyer makes out in these class actions.
Maybe I could set those aside and decide on the evidence and arguments presented. But it would be a hard sell and my BS detector would probably be going off the whole time. Cuz the whole premise goes against >20yrs experience using FLs properly. |
Post# 638077 , Reply# 12   11/10/2012 at 15:25 (4,156 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)   |   | |
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...and provided 2 factors are in place:
- there is a line towards the front of the instruction booklets asking the purchaser to 'Please read this instruction book' or similar; and - there is satisfactory information contained in the booklet about 'how to maintain and care for your machine', which if followed, would prevent mould.... ...I want Whirlpool to win. In a society, such as the USA, that puts so much emphasis on the rights of the individual to seemingly do as they please, then the individual needs to take responcibility should they fail to follow instructions, warnings etc. provided they are contained in a sensible and accessible place. |
Post# 638158 , Reply# 15   11/10/2012 at 23:52 (4,156 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)   |   | |
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I've learned through experience not to judge the merits of a case by reading newspaper articles. However...
What may be most significant is the internal company memos mentioned in the article, depending on what they say. That's what hurt the tobacco companies badly; for decades they denied any bad health effects from smoking when they'd been warned about it repeatedly by their own people. Same with the Ford Pinto and its exploding gas tank.
At this point, class action certification doesn't mean the case has been judged on the merits, just that there are a large number of plaintiffs whose claims are similar and can be consolidated into one proceeding. Later, the defendant will move for summary judgment, meaning the court can dismiss the case before going to a jury trial. |
Post# 638192 , Reply# 18   11/11/2012 at 08:00 (4,156 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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I wonder how manufacturers will respond to this lawsuit. Whether Whirlpool wins or loses, the marketplace will respond in some form or another.
It sure seems like a washing machine that can detect an over sudsing condition should be able to detect trace amounts of detergent remaining in the next to last rinse and add additional rinsing when the ALLERGY rinse button is engaged. Additionally, wouldn't an advanced rinsing profile minimize the risk of mold growth? And while we are at it, how about introducing a PUR water filtration system to ensure incoming water was as clean as possible? Malcolm |
Post# 638206 , Reply# 19   11/11/2012 at 09:52 (4,155 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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1. ALL washers, ALL brands, FRONTloaders and TOPloaders, can develop mold and munge. 2. User carelessness and bad habits is the primary cause. The push to cold (and cooler warm & hot) water promotes and exacerbates the problem. 3. Suspect the reason for picking on frontloaders is the purchase cost premium and repair cost premium that's involved, and they're "newfangled" to the consumer-off-the-street. |
Post# 638251 , Reply# 20   11/11/2012 at 14:52 (4,155 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Damp/humid conditions + warmth + food source ='s mould/mildew.
Washing machines both top and front loading have been around for almost >100 years now so where is this sudden plague of mould coming from? IMHO washing machine makers should lay some of the blame squarely at the feet of regulations/laws mandating water and or energy usage. When washing machines in particular front loaders were allowed to use the amount of water required to get the job done we never heard of "washer cleaning" cycles. There was no need for such nonesense. Long as proper laundry techniques were followed including proper dosage of detergents with hot water, muck and grime were mostly flushed down the drains. Today consumers use mainly liquid detergents and cool to cold water in washing machines that on average often do not rinse well. All that residue of soils and surfactants make up a nice breeding ground for mould. |
Post# 638410 , Reply# 24   11/11/2012 at 22:19 (4,155 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))   |   | |
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Post# 638431 , Reply# 27   11/12/2012 at 01:02 (4,155 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))   |   | |
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Remember Ampex? I worked for them in 1969. Made my living making broadcast videotape work for ~20 years. The only Ampex video machines I DIDN'T work on were the tube version and AVR2.
Knew the Crosby connection, though I otherwise have general contempt for him as a person. Jeep is a new one on me. Know who E. Stanley Busby was? Would you like to have the official Ampex book "Videotape Recording"? It's an incomparable reference to anyone interested in technical television history. I'm not likely to live much longer (or I wouldn't give it away) and nobody I know would value it. It's otherwise unobtanium as it was a corporate publication not a commercial one and could be a priceless collectable at some point in the future. I'd just like it to have a good home. It's the only thing I have that hardly anyone else could possibly have. |
Post# 638509 , Reply# 30   11/12/2012 at 13:37 (4,154 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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If one goes by Internet complaints mould growing in this new crop of modern front loaders seems to be a major issue. None of the major appliance makers will admitt to it, and all suggest the issue is one of consumer's poor laundry habits (not leaving door ajar after use and so forth), but one can only guess it is tied into the puny amount of water these machines use.
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Post# 638573 , Reply# 32   11/12/2012 at 17:08 (4,154 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)   |   | |
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I can say that after my experience with the GE/Frigidaire front loader that we got from a friend that was so proud to wash only in cold water and never leave the door open to air it out..the smell was unreal not to mention the clumps of "biofilm" that came off the drum when I ran hot water and Tide washer cleaner thru it. After all those years of washing in cold his clothes smelled like they were washed in a sewer.
It amazes me how these detergent manufacturers push cold water washing...especially in a front loader. To me cold doesnt clean..its like washing your hands in cold water after you just cut up chicken and they are kinda greasy...it doesnt work well. But thats what people believe that it works. I always tell people you dont take a cold shower or bath when you bathe do you... |
Post# 638577 , Reply# 33   11/12/2012 at 17:28 (4,154 days old) by foxchapel ()   |   | |
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. . . washing a skillet in cold water, that has been used to fry chicken. |
Post# 638614 , Reply# 34   11/12/2012 at 19:55 (4,154 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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I second the fact that mold (really, fungus) can grow anywhere.
When I bought this house in '97, it came with a '78 GE Filter-flo. Nice washer, but it had this funky old cigar smell to it. When I lifted the top off it, there was a thick crust of brown mold all around the underside. I figure the former owner had perhaps bought into the cold water washing myth. The washer is now parked in my collection in another building on the property, replaced by a Maytag Neptune that has never had mold in tub or odor problem, and I don't do anything special like keeping the door open. But then I do only hot or warm washes, with STPP. And the Neptune design provides aeration via ports in the door panel and a big gap in the detergent compartment lid. There is some slight surface mold in the detergent compartment, but that is easily removed with a sponge or brush once or twice a year. |
Post# 638635 , Reply# 35   11/12/2012 at 20:48 (4,154 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)   |   | |
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But the Neptune had another design flaw that grew mold. Above the dispensers was a plastic case that all of the fresh water went into. One day I unscrewed it and black mold everywhere! I had to use a screwdriver and bleach to scrape it all out. As I remember, the Kenmores we had had a smaller case the water went into but it was open on one side and made of polyethylene so water never hung around. Cleaning this case out did help keep the mold away from the rest of the machine until it grew again. And me and my mother always used hot water and often used bleach. Now we have the GE (LG) top loader and the drawer where you place the detergent and the softener has a coating of mold which has to be cleaned off, it will not even come off in the dishwasher. Somehow I think this machine will be a stinker too.
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Post# 638637 , Reply# 36   11/12/2012 at 20:53 (4,154 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)   |   | |
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I cannot believe that Bing Crosby was such a wuss that he could not perform twice a day, althought we probably would not have videotape if he did not fund Ampex. I have performed in college and community theatre musicals where I had to be on stage for maybe 2 hours at a time and had to do it twice a day, the day before and the day after and while I was tired after ALL of that, if I can do it I see no reason Bing couldn't handle it. Maybe all of the smoking and being mean took his energy away? I also had to move furniture on stage and then after all was done help "Strike" the set and prepare the auditorium for the next use too.
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Post# 638658 , Reply# 37   11/12/2012 at 22:33 (4,154 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))   |   | |
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One gets the impression Bing was a diva. Got things 'his way' just because he could. But like you said, Uncle Alex's little DOD motor company couldn't have financed the audio machines without Bing nor the video machines without the audio.
E. Stanley Busby was the logic designer for ACR-25/AVR-1 among other projects. The VR-1000 team was Charles Anderson, Ray Dolby, Alex Maxey, Shelby Henderson, Charles Ginsburg and Fred Pfost. The anniversary of videotape broadcasting was Nov 30 1956. Somebody would have come up with practical videotape if Ampex hadn't, but not in 1956 they wouldn't. As George Harrison said about Ringo's drums in Hard Day's Night, Ampex loomed large in my legend. |