Thread Number: 43803
Another KitchenAid ''what's the year'' question
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Post# 643810   12/3/2012 at 20:09 (4,132 days old) by bogo (montreal)        

Seller says it's in very very good condition. Probably a early '90s whirlpool?

thanks





Post# 643817 , Reply# 1   12/3/2012 at 20:20 (4,132 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

that's a KUDS23.  Early to mid 1990s.  The very last of the KAs before they killed it with the porcelain tub and tacking like a Series 18-22 and went with the whirlpool clone.


Post# 643841 , Reply# 2   12/3/2012 at 20:39 (4,132 days old) by bogo (montreal)        

Thanks for the answer. Do you think 100$ is ok for this model if in good shape?

Post# 643845 , Reply# 3   12/3/2012 at 20:43 (4,132 days old) by appnut (TX)        
definte "good shape"

appnut's profile picture

If it's almost perfect yes.  Why is it being sold?


Post# 643846 , Reply# 4   12/3/2012 at 20:47 (4,132 days old) by bogo (montreal)        

Good question. I'll take a look at it if close enough.

Post# 643854 , Reply# 5   12/3/2012 at 21:12 (4,132 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Correct me...

if I am wrong, but the control panel indicates "rinsed only" on the right side of the light package..and with the 8 buttons, it would be a 22 series Superba in the Architect series.

The 23 series had the "please wait" designation on the last light and the same cycles.
The 22 had the Hobart pump and the 23 had the Whilpool PowerClean Module pump.

Not too many years difference in age between the two of them. Seeing it will tell the tale


Post# 643857 , Reply# 6   12/3/2012 at 21:18 (4,132 days old) by bogo (montreal)        

Looks like the one on this thread: www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/T...

CLICK HERE TO GO TO bogo's LINK


Post# 643860 , Reply# 7   12/3/2012 at 21:23 (4,132 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Oh Jeeeeeez Steve...

toploader55's profile picture
Details, Details, DETAILS !!!!!!!

You're the Best !!! LOL !

That's why You're Dr stevet.


Post# 643861 , Reply# 8   12/3/2012 at 21:23 (4,132 days old) by bogo (montreal)        

The rinse only button is on the horizontal side on the 22 isin't it?

Post# 643863 , Reply# 9   12/3/2012 at 21:27 (4,132 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
The rinse only button is on the horizontal side on the 22 isin't it?
Not on an Architect Series model (with the tall control panel to match cabinet drawer fronts).


Post# 643876 , Reply# 10   12/3/2012 at 21:34 (4,132 days old) by bogo (montreal)        

So it would be the one with the annoying whine from the motor as we can read in this thread: www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/T...

CLICK HERE TO GO TO bogo's LINK


Post# 643887 , Reply# 11   12/3/2012 at 22:06 (4,132 days old) by appnut (TX)        
sorry Steve

appnut's profile picture

I didn't bother to blow up the image, but still, might not then have been able to see it was a rinse only light and not please wait.


Post# 643888 , Reply# 12   12/3/2012 at 22:09 (4,132 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
KD 23

combo52's profile picture

The DW in question is a 23 machine and neither the 22 or the 23s made an annoying winning sound.


Post# 643898 , Reply# 13   12/3/2012 at 22:38 (4,132 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
Hey John,

rp2813's profile picture

It's my understanding that the ISE Classic Supreme I have (model CLSUP-5) is a series 22 clone.  Single final rinse.  It makes that notorious whine.  Sometimes it's rhythmic, other times it's constant.  It would otherwise be silent except for the sound of water movement if not for that damned whine.


Post# 644286 , Reply# 14   12/5/2012 at 16:20 (4,130 days old) by bogo (montreal)        

The owner says it's a KUDA220t

CLICK HERE TO GO TO bogo's LINK


Post# 644291 , Reply# 15   12/5/2012 at 16:49 (4,130 days old) by bogo (montreal)        

According to this video description it's from 1993. I think I'm going to get it soon.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO bogo's LINK


Post# 644308 , Reply# 16   12/5/2012 at 18:09 (4,130 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
A great machine if you don't mind the Architect look but

rp2813's profile picture

Examine it carefully.  For $100 it needs to be exceptional.  If the seller doesn't realize how old it is, they might come down in price after you advise them.


Post# 644321 , Reply# 17   12/5/2012 at 18:45 (4,130 days old) by bogo (montreal)        

Yes I will see. She says she's the only owner. She preferred to wash dishes by hand and it's almost unused.

Post# 644357 , Reply# 18   12/5/2012 at 20:33 (4,130 days old) by bogo (montreal)        

Does it have the PowerClean Module pump or the Hobart pump?

Post# 644358 , Reply# 19   12/5/2012 at 20:39 (4,130 days old) by bogo (montreal)        

Since they explain in the manual how to clean the filter it must be a Hobart. Steve was right thinking that was 22 model.

Post# 644364 , Reply# 20   12/5/2012 at 21:11 (4,130 days old) by appnut (TX)        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.



Post# 644367 , Reply# 21   12/5/2012 at 21:33 (4,130 days old) by bogo (montreal)        

Don't know why I thought it was a KUDA22 in the youtube video I posted above. Time to upgrade my account here to be able to edit my posts.

Post# 644368 , Reply# 22   12/5/2012 at 21:34 (4,130 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
Hobart

rp2813's profile picture

The 22 series would have the Hobart design pump. By the time those machines were being produced Whirlpool did own KA, but didn't switch from Hobart's type of pump to the Power Clean Module until the 23 series.


Post# 644371 , Reply# 23   12/5/2012 at 21:42 (4,130 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Thank You!

Thank you.

Post# 644379 , Reply# 24   12/5/2012 at 22:55 (4,130 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
So Stevet

jetcone's profile picture
looking at that 22 manual it looks like the hydrosweep would be interchangeable into my 20 if I got the newer style filter screen without the top??



Post# 644449 , Reply# 25   12/6/2012 at 07:28 (4,130 days old) by bogo (montreal)        

Hmmm, not much part available for this model. I'm wondering if it's possible that the pump seal ring has dried out if the machine wasn't use for years?

CLICK HERE TO GO TO bogo's LINK


Post# 644527 , Reply# 26   12/6/2012 at 12:10 (4,130 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

It's possible.  The best way to find out is to dump some really hot water into the sump area and let it sit there a while in order to soften up the seal, then give the machine a run.  These were well-built machines with quality components so if there's a slight leak, it may "take up" with just a bit of use.

 

It's a chance you take when you buy an older machine, and I'd suggest using the possibility of a dried up seal as a bargaining tool for a lower price.


Post# 644764 , Reply# 27   12/7/2012 at 14:36 (4,129 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
HYDROSWEEP SWITCHAROO

Jon, in reference to your observation about using the 22 washarm in your 20, they are not interchangeable even if you were able to get the top filter/support assembly. The pumps are only remotely similar and while you would get water to pump thru the arms with the 22 support, you would not have the function of the soil collection chamber because the drain impellers and drain systems are different on the two machines. The 20 has the drain solenoid and no reversing motor and the 21-22 drain impeller which was a disposer plate pumps the ground up soils up into the chamber to store and when the motor reverses, the chamber is flushed clean by the jets under the washarm and the soil is washed down the drain.

There is really no advantage to using one arm over the other as the nozzle placement is the same so the washing action would be the same as well.


Post# 644774 , Reply# 28   12/7/2012 at 15:13 (4,129 days old) by applianceguy47 ()        

My parents have a Superba 22 that needs new racks.

Where is the best place to get those?

and how much should one expect to pay?


Post# 645276 , Reply# 29   12/9/2012 at 19:57 (4,126 days old) by bogo (montreal)        
ok I bought it for 80$

I haven't installed it yet. It's visually in good condition. Little rust appearing on the upper rack sides, I will put some vinyl paint soon. I remove the wash arm to see the fine filter and I found that one plastic bushing and a brass ring is loose. Is there a way to secure it?

Post# 645281 , Reply# 30   12/9/2012 at 20:06 (4,126 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
It Ain't Broke..don't try to fix it!

Unless the white bushing is so loose that it easily moves up to block the opening for the washarm water supply to become blocked. the brass ring is supposed to be loose so you may not have a problem at all.

Post# 645284 , Reply# 31   12/9/2012 at 20:17 (4,126 days old) by bogo (montreal)        

Thanks again Steve. I just miss an elbow to connect the water line onto the valve. Anything I should look at before firing it up? Just found a kudc220t4 on craigslits. For parts maybe...

I noticed a little rust coming from under the rinse agent dispenser. Can I apply some sort of paint there to slowdown the process?


Post# 645290 , Reply# 32   12/9/2012 at 20:43 (4,126 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Get a new gasket

This is a common thing on these dispensers. Whenever I remove or replace one, I use 2 sealing gaskets, one on each side of the tank and I snug up the locking nut by hand so as to not tear the gasket.

You can get them at any Hobart office for $8.45 each, USD. Kind of pricey but effective.

The part number is 116198-3

Remove the cap and nut and take the dispenser out and simply clean the rust away with some cerama-bryte or baking soda on a wet rag. That should remove it and then place a gasket on both sides of the neck of the dispenser and you should be good to go.
Hope this helps.

That gasket may still be available thru Sears or whirlpool parts so don't forget to check there too


Post# 645303 , Reply# 33   12/9/2012 at 21:28 (4,126 days old) by bogo (montreal)        

Cool! I will order them as soon as I'm sure the unit is working good.

Post# 645308 , Reply# 34   12/9/2012 at 21:40 (4,126 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

qsd-dan's profile picture

I use 2 sealing gaskets, one on each side of the tank and I snug up the locking nut by hand so as to not tear the gasket.

That's what I did to the rinse aid dispenser for my KDS-18. It's a very odd size gasket, but I was actually able to find them at Orchard Supply. It was in the plumbing department, something about "oversize" in the title. Not sure if it has the same dimensions as a 22 series.


Post# 645313 , Reply# 35   12/9/2012 at 21:49 (4,126 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Nate and I, when our blind idealism possessed us to revive the notorious Thundering Thermador, bought a small sheet of gasket material at OSH and made our own for the Rube Goldberg rinse aid dispenser on that machine. 

 

Bogo, you have enough options to resolve the problem fairly easily.


Post# 645314 , Reply# 36   12/9/2012 at 22:11 (4,126 days old) by bogo (montreal)        

Yeah I'm sure I will find a solution for this gasket. For the moment I don't find it on the Hobart web site part list. Are you sure it's the right number Steve? If it's the same gasket for the fill opening it seems NLA at Sears.



Post# 645315 , Reply# 37   12/9/2012 at 22:21 (4,126 days old) by bogo (montreal)        

Ok sorry Steve I found it.

Post# 645341 , Reply# 38   12/10/2012 at 05:48 (4,126 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Same gasket

For the fill air gap as well as the dispenser. You would have to look under the SR24 model dishwasher on Hobart's web site to find it. There would not be any references to anything Kitchenaid there at all.
Just call the local Hobart office near you and they should be able to get it for you. If not, let me know and I should be able to get them and mail them to you
Steve


Post# 645346 , Reply# 39   12/10/2012 at 06:13 (4,126 days old) by bogo (montreal)        

Here is what I've found, they call it a nut adapter:

Post# 645354 , Reply# 40   12/10/2012 at 07:17 (4,126 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Rust Around Rinse Aid Dispemser

combo52's profile picture

To correct this remove the dispenser clean and let the area dry and paint the edge where the rust was cleaned away with a good epoxy paint and let dry. You can use the old gasket if it is one piece by coating both sides with a good gasket sealant, usually something that is 100% silicone sealant. I would NOT recommend using two gaskets, using a 2nd gasket will allow water to get to the metal edge of the door panel around the threaded nut and it will have a much harder time drying out and may really cause the door panel to rust out. KA, WP, D&M, HP, GE and many other dishwasher makers did not put a gasket on the inside for a reason, you also cannot tighten the nut properly and it may work loose and leak.

 

This same technique of using the silicone sealant can also be used with the old [ clean and dry ] gasket for the detergent dispenser, inlet air-gap and several other places on this DW.


Post# 645357 , Reply# 41   12/10/2012 at 07:24 (4,126 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
OOPs, My bad

Sorry about the part number error.. 293014 is actually the gasket.
John gives some good advice for a fix.
The most important thing is making sure the area is clean and in sound condition.


Post# 645467 , Reply# 42   12/10/2012 at 16:42 (4,125 days old) by bogo (montreal)        
Another one

I may have found a KDSM-21AC in good condition as a parts donor for the 22. Is there any major difference between both?

Post# 645500 , Reply# 43   12/10/2012 at 18:47 (4,125 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
MONTERREY MODEL?

The main difference is the addition of the quick glass cycle on the 22 but mechanically, they are nearly identical. Pumps are the same as is just about everything else save the timers and program switches.
Good find. Who knows, you might like the 21 better!


Post# 645535 , Reply# 44   12/10/2012 at 20:25 (4,125 days old) by bogo (montreal)        
kdsm21a

According to the manual it's a Monterey. Now I have to explain to my wife that we need to get another DW.

Post# 645537 , Reply# 45   12/10/2012 at 20:28 (4,125 days old) by bogo (montreal)        

Well, on the KA website when I clicked on KDSM-21A, I've been redirected to the kuds21m manual which is the Monterey...

Post# 645613 , Reply# 46   12/11/2012 at 09:09 (4,125 days old) by mitch (Atlanta)        
Love mine

I bought a KUDS21M Monterey back over the summer and have installed it in a utility room off the kitchen. This machine is awesome! No complaints--it is one good cleaning, well mannered beast with a "get it done" attitude :)


With all the holiday baking and entertaining it has been an absolute treat having two dishwashers! I would love to find the portable version of the KA 18 series as a basement machine :)

Good luck to you!
Mitch

This was the thread from when I got her home:


CLICK HERE TO GO TO mitch's LINK


Post# 646096 , Reply# 47   12/12/2012 at 22:04 (4,123 days old) by bogo (montreal)        
It running!

After some plumbing work I managed to install the machine tonight (not totally leveled yet, I'll finish that over the week end). The unit is running as I wrote this and everything seems fine except that I'm not too impressed by the low noise it suppose to make. Specially when you look at it while it's running and you read "whisper quiet" on the front panel!

Fortunately the wash cycle is quicker as opposed to the other one I had before.



Post# 646098 , Reply# 48   12/12/2012 at 22:16 (4,123 days old) by bogo (montreal)        
upper rack doesn't go in easily

I find also the the upper rack needs to be pushed hard to enter the DW. Maybe it's because I'm used to my old one. Rack was smooth. I'll see another 22 next weekend for spare parts, I will "test" the upper rack.

Post# 646099 , Reply# 49   12/12/2012 at 22:33 (4,123 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
Congratulations on getting it running!

rp2813's profile picture

I don't think any of the top racks on the KA's I've had were effortless to move to and fro, but it shouldn't be a battle either.  Maybe someone will offer a lubricating option that won't get washed away or impact performance.

 

As for the noise level, KA dishwashers of this vintage were never known for entirely quiet operation, but there are other makes that are even noisier.  My guess is that your machine isn't any louder than it's supposed to be.


Post# 646106 , Reply# 50   12/12/2012 at 22:51 (4,123 days old) by bogo (montreal)        
check valve

Probably not you're right. Looking in the parts manual I just realize that mine doesn't have the check valve. Does it need it absolutely?

Post# 646108 , Reply# 51   12/12/2012 at 23:27 (4,123 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

A check valve that's stuck open or is missing completely can compromise the wash action. 

 

The Whirlpool part isn't available anymore, but there is a GE part that fits the same.  If no one else can provide the GE part number, I can find it for you.  I'm pretty sure I have it written down in my garage shop.


Post# 646109 , Reply# 52   12/12/2012 at 23:28 (4,123 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.




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