Thread Number: 44274
Hot Water Heaters
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Post# 650639   1/2/2013 at 16:49 (4,128 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        

The water heater in the basement where I live is an electric Hotpoint and it is 47 years old. It has never given a bit of trouble. Now that I've said that it will probably die! The reason for this post is I hope someone will remember this model of water heater and can tell me what it was called. It was at my aunt's house up the street. She and my uncle lived in an 1800's house that was modified several times through the years. Their hot water heater was in the kitchen in broad view. It was a gas water heater made by Sears, but it was not a Kenmore. I want to say it was a Mopar, but that was the name of Chrysler parts, etc. I wanted to say Hobart, but that was the original manufacturer of Kitchenaid. It was tall and was two-tone in color. It had a water temperature knob on the outside of the unit that you could slide up and down. You could hear it fire up which surprised me because it was so well insulated that I never felt any heat coming off of it. When you turned the hot tap on at the kitchen sink it would rumble rumble. That was sort of scary like it was fixin to blow up. Does anyone remember what badge Sears put on a water heater other than Kenmore? Oh, and I would say it was probably installed in the early 1960's.




Post# 650643 , Reply# 1   1/2/2013 at 16:56 (4,128 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)        
Homart:

danemodsandy's profile picture
Was Sears' brand for water heaters for a while.



Post# 650645 , Reply# 2   1/2/2013 at 16:57 (4,128 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        
Sandy,

That's it, Homart!

Post# 650646 , Reply# 3   1/2/2013 at 17:00 (4,128 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        

My gas furnace is vented to the outside. When I have to replace the hot water heater I will see if it can be replaced with a gas unit. Should be able to vent it out with the furnace if code allows.

Post# 650665 , Reply# 4   1/2/2013 at 18:33 (4,128 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)        

wayupnorth's profile picture
Growing up, we had a Sears Homart FHA furnace and water heater. But if you really want to save money in the long run, the new tankless, on demand gas water heaters work great if you only have 1 hot water faucet open at a time. Gas models can vent right thru a basement or side wall and take up almost no space. I now have an oil fired boiler for heat and hot water that works on the same principal. But you cant shower and do a load in the dishwasher without one side going cold. And with wind chill values to be up to -35 tonight here, the boiler wont shut off.

Post# 650715 , Reply# 5   1/3/2013 at 04:42 (4,128 days old) by mattl (Flushing, MI)        

Speaking of water heaters, does anyone recall seeing the type that was made to look like a washer or dryer?

Post# 650717 , Reply# 6   1/3/2013 at 05:08 (4,128 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.



Post# 650722 , Reply# 7   1/3/2013 at 05:36 (4,128 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        
Sorry....

Th post I deleted was a story about the Hotpoint appliances in my mother's parents house and I remembered I had already told it. Thanks.

Post# 650723 , Reply# 8   1/3/2013 at 05:39 (4,128 days old) by polkanut (Wausau, WI )        

polkanut's profile picture

I don't know about building codes in SC, but here each gas appliance that requires venting out of the house needs to have its own separate exhaust pipe.


Post# 650725 , Reply# 9   1/3/2013 at 05:59 (4,128 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
Homart,,,

It was probably a Homart 600, that was the top of the line.

Post# 650726 , Reply# 10   1/3/2013 at 06:22 (4,128 days old) by kimball455 (Cape May, NJ)        

kimball455's profile picture
My house had a 'cabinet' electric hot water heater. It had the same look and size of a washer or dryer and the same height. It took forever to heat water. It was replaced with a standard vented gas hot water heater. When I updated the heating system to baseboard hot water I installed an indirect boiler. The mod/con heating boiler heats the hot water indirectly by circulation hot water to the remote tank. I have a Triangle Tube indirect tank. It is a tank in a tank. Boiler water circulates in the outer tank heating the water. I have not been able to run out of hot water with laundry, dishwasher and shower at the same time. Hot water heat is fantastic but if you want AC too, you have to install separate system. I did that by installing mini split AC. End result is 3 heating zones and 4 AC zones.

Post# 650727 , Reply# 11   1/3/2013 at 06:30 (4,128 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)        
Please:

danemodsandy's profile picture
It's a "water heater," not a "hot water heater."

A "hot water heater" would be a device intended for heating water that is already hot, which would seem to be an expensive and useless endeavor.


Post# 650728 , Reply# 12   1/3/2013 at 06:39 (4,128 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

The reason you heard it fire up was because the burner had to be open to the room air to support combustion. Sears marketed some two and three stage burner water heaters that ignited on the lowest BTU input to prevent "flame rollout" and then shifted to the higher BTU inputs depending on the drop in water temperature like in periods of high demand. In esssence, it normally cycled on the lowest input, but could increase to keep up with consecutive hot washes with warm rinses or lots of baths and showers. I think the highest input might have been 75,000 BTUs on the TOL model while the two stage burners on the next model in the line might have had 40,000 and 55 or 60,000 BTU inputs.

We had a Homart with a beautiful almost eye-level marque or escutcheon that had subdued shades of turquoise and brass with designs possibly reflecting the 4 seasons around the centrally placed HOMART. The builder's original tank was 30 gallons and I think it was replaced after it started spitting rust at around the 5 year mark with a 40 gallon model. Daddy and a neighbor with a Ford station wagon took me with them to the Sears warehouse where we picked up the new tank. There was a big picture window on the front of the warehouse with an LK pair on display, possibly from 1959 or 1960. The two of them replaced the tank on a Saturday afternoon. It must have been a 10 year tank because it was still going strong when we sold the house in 67 and it had always been operated at the maximum setting which back then was 160F except when we went out of town and it was turned down to the lowest setting.


Post# 650744 , Reply# 13   1/3/2013 at 08:40 (4,128 days old) by foxchapel ()        
retromania - about that venting ...

>>My gas furnace is vented to the outside. When I have to replace the hot water heater
>>I will see if it can be replaced with a gas unit. Should be able to vent it out with the furnace if code allows.


It depends. When we replaced our gas furnace with a high-efficiency unit, the furnace venting got changed to a horizontal one thru the brick veneer.

Our gas water heater continued to use the old thru--the-roof vent pipe that it shared with the old low-efficiency furnace. As all this was rather new to our area when we made the switch, nobody anticipated what happened next:

From the school of Live and Learn --- the old venting was too wide (diameter) to serve just the water heater and when outside temps in the attic got below a certain point (something like 10° or 15°F). Condensation occurred because, with the furnace exhaust taken out of the equation, more cold air was coming down the vent than hot air going up, which dripped thru the seams in the vent pipe, and dripped on good luggage stored in the attic (right under the vent pipe). I had to have the HVAC guy come out and run a narrower pipe up thru the old vent pipe to the tune of several hundred dollar$.

This was not a codes issue, but more a physics problem.


Post# 650747 , Reply# 14   1/3/2013 at 08:57 (4,128 days old) by franksdad (Greenville, South Carolina)        
It's a "water heater," not a "hot water heat

franksdad's profile picture

Around these parts you're also likely to also hear someone say "Put some cold Cokes in the ice box!"  Logically speaking, why would you place a Coca-Cola inside a refrigerator to get cold if it is already cold?  Just a colloquilism. Smile


Post# 650754 , Reply# 15   1/3/2013 at 09:49 (4,128 days old) by fido ()        

Yes, I've sometimes wondered why people call them hot water heaters but then again, why do we in UK call a similar device a boiler when it it meant to operate at temperatures somewhat below boiling point?

Post# 650755 , Reply# 16   1/3/2013 at 09:57 (4,128 days old) by nurdlinger (Tucson AZ)        
Our first automatic water heater was a Homart

nurdlinger's profile picture
We got it sometime in the mid-50s. Before that we had a manually-controlled heater, which I do not believe I have ever seen discussed here. It was a non-insulated cylindrical metal tank, with a smaller cylinder grafted on the side which held a coil of tubing and a burner below it. It was like one burner from a gas stove, with the same quarter-turn porcelain-handle valve you found on old stoves. When you needed hot water you lit the burner with a match. I don't remember the details of how the coil of tubing was plumbed into the system, but there was also a loop of bigger pipe (maybe 1-1/4") that passed through the firebox of the adjacent coal furnace to snatch additional heating when there was a fire there.

Post# 650764 , Reply# 17   1/3/2013 at 10:47 (4,128 days old) by A440 ()        

.

Post# 650765 , Reply# 18   1/3/2013 at 10:48 (4,128 days old) by A440 ()        

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Post# 650766 , Reply# 19   1/3/2013 at 10:49 (4,128 days old) by A440 ()        

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Post# 650767 , Reply# 20   1/3/2013 at 10:50 (4,128 days old) by A440 ()        

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Post# 650768 , Reply# 21   1/3/2013 at 10:53 (4,128 days old) by A440 ()        

Retired after 52 Years of use. Nothing wrong with it. Gas company said it was way too old and red tagged it.

Post# 650777 , Reply# 22   1/3/2013 at 12:48 (4,128 days old) by gr81nknox ()        
venting

IIRC, you have buy a water heater designed for direct venting versus a traditional one. Or at least this was the case when my parents replaced theirs a while back. The direct vent unit is in their basement and vents right outside like a dryer(except the vent cap is metal). Depending on the efficiency rating of the furnace, they either vent with a traditional flu or can also vent with a plastic pipe. I believe anything 90 or above on efficiency can direct vent. Below that(I think 80 is the minimum rating allowed to be sold) the exhaust is still too hot and a flu is required. That seems to be the case with all new homes built here in TN these days. Not sure if thats code everywhere or not though.

Post# 650785 , Reply# 23   1/3/2013 at 13:17 (4,128 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Boy I'm glad you showed more photos of the HOMART. On seeing that first one with the insulation all fluffed out, I thought there had been a rupture or some spectacular failure.

Post# 650789 , Reply# 24   1/3/2013 at 13:48 (4,128 days old) by Westie2 ()        

We had a Crane hot water heater in our house that was built in 1950.  It was in the middle of the house in the furnance room.  That thing was great supplied 3 baths room kitchen an utility (wringer washer then Maytag automatics.  Was still going strong in 1978 when the furnace went out it had to be tken out to get the ol durnace out and new one in so dad decided to replace it.  One thing I think that kept it going so long was that dad did the drain out of it twice a year.  One thing he did teach me well to do. 

 

All our fixtures were Crane in the bath rooms and kitchen sink.  Have never seen another Crane hot water tank again.

 

My grand parents had one of the uninsulated water heaters in their attice and one night they heard this big swoosh and bang and the heater rook off like a roocket through the roof.  No safery valve and it did not stop heating til the tank blew.  The tank landed in the back yard.  Water all in the house from broken pipes. 


Post# 650793 , Reply# 25   1/3/2013 at 14:11 (4,127 days old) by twintubdexter (Palm Springs)        
hot water heater vs water heater...

twintubdexter's profile picture
...true, the "hot" is redundant, but it's really only an error if the person reading or hearing it doesn't understand, "frigerator," "rot iron furniture," "chester drawers"...you still know what they mean.

As a former Plumbing buyer for a huge hardware chain here in California of which water heaters were a major contributor, I'd say if that little Homart lasted 52 years you certainly got your money's worth and then some. It must have been drinking mineral and sediment-free water for most of it's life.

As a kid we would "vacation" at a remote cabin in Northern California that belonged to a friend of my Dad who would go hunting while we were there. When I say "remote" I mean it, no electricity and no generator, just propane for the stove and the Servel. You had to park hundreds of feet away on a dirt road and walk to the cabin (I guess vacation wasn't the right word to use.) The water supply was gravity-fed from a tank kept filled by a spring. The water heater was on the outside and looked like the boiler on a ship. You built a fire in the front, closed the door and eventually you could do the dishes or take a shower. My Mom would let me fire the heater up which was about the only "fun" thing to do at this mountain prison and since I was a junior pyromaniac I'd have that thing going like a blast furnace. It would make this loud clacking noise and my Mom always feared it was going to blow up. You could cook pasta with the water coming out of the kitchen faucet...mucho caliente'.


Post# 650796 , Reply# 26   1/3/2013 at 14:33 (4,127 days old) by kenwashesmonday (Carlstadt, NJ)        

A440 wrote:

"Retired after 52 Years of use. Nothing wrong with it. Gas company said it was way too old and red tagged it."

 

*******************************

 

Oh that's great, now you'll be replacing it every 7 years or so from now on.  Everything new is JUNK !  This sort of thing burns my a**.

 

Ken D.


Post# 650799 , Reply# 27   1/3/2013 at 15:44 (4,127 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
I dont think,,,

Legally they can tell you to retire something because it is Too Old!! I would have to get a lawyer over that one!! oh yeah, I hate to tell you, but I have never heard anything BUT HOT WATER HEATER!!!LOL

Post# 650824 , Reply# 28   1/3/2013 at 17:19 (4,127 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        
Sandy,

You got me! And correct you are. It's not a HOT water heater. Just a water heater. LOLLLL. That's too funny!

Post# 650827 , Reply# 29   1/3/2013 at 17:38 (4,127 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        
Harry,

I heard that hot water heat is great for folks living in really cold climates. By the way. Has anyone ever heard of a Warm Morning heater? My mother who is 87 said they had a Warm Morning heater in their kitchen when she was a child. She said it had a tank above it that heated a small amount of hot water. She said just about enough to for a bath. The house did not have central heat. Each room had a fireplace. Wood burning and kerosene stoves in the kitchen. I made the mistake once of saying that I bet cakes from the wood burning stove didn't turn out very well. She put me in my place by saying some of the most beautiful cakes and breads came out of that wood stove.

Post# 650831 , Reply# 30   1/3/2013 at 17:44 (4,127 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        
Oh and one of my favorites,

hose pipe for the garden hose!


Post# 650832 , Reply# 31   1/3/2013 at 17:50 (4,127 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        
So foxchapel...

What was the rumble rumble in the water heater when someone started running hot water at the kitchen sink?  


Post# 650841 , Reply# 32   1/3/2013 at 19:25 (4,127 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)        

wayupnorth's profile picture
I have experienced all the different types of water heaters mentioned, from the gas burner to heat a coil to a coil heating water in a woodstove with a seperate tank and never hot water in the warm weather. They all work but we are always looking for the easiest and most cost efficient way to go. 18 years ago I redid my house with a tankless hot water boiler run by #2 oil when it was CHEAP but my oil cost has gone from.60/gallon to nearly 4 bucks a gallon. Since then I have got my BPI Energy Auditors certification and wished I knew then what I know now and had the cash to change things. Everyone has to access their own hot water needs, like more people, more bathrooms, more washers that use HOT water and the energy costs in their area. There are many options and everyone has to access their individual needs for where they live and look at all their options, but around here, an electric water heater will drain your wallet.

Post# 650848 , Reply# 33   1/3/2013 at 20:08 (4,127 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)        

supersuds's profile picture
The term "hot water heater" was used by car makers in the Thirties because there were other gimcrack devices that used heat off the exhaust manifolds as well as the Stewart-Warner "South Wind" heater that burned gasoline to provide instant heat. So the term may have gotten into circulation back then.

Warm Morning was a very big stove and furnace maker. I remember my high school auditorium had a metal door over the coal chute that said Warm Morning.


Post# 650851 , Reply# 34   1/3/2013 at 20:39 (4,127 days old) by westingman123 ()        
Warm Morning

If I recall, they made wood stoves, gas space heaters, and coal stoves. I have a Warm Morning propane space heater at the farm, it will blast you out of that old house if you don't remember to turn it waaaaaay low.

Post# 650869 , Reply# 35   1/3/2013 at 22:53 (4,127 days old) by whirlaway (Hampton Virginia)        
Water Heaters!

I replaced mine last year it was 33 years old,my grandmother had a Sears Homart water heater she had installed in 41 and it was still in the house in the 80s,I have Hot water heat its wonderful and even and no cool breezes blowing across your neck and you can dry things on your cast iron radiators,LUv em! Id come home from climbing phone poles all day,with wet and cold feet! Put those boots on the one in the little bathroom off of the kitchen,and they would be warm and ready for the next morning.Its such a damp cold tonight,I waled by one of them,and it felt so good. Good Night!!

Post# 650882 , Reply# 36   1/4/2013 at 03:41 (4,127 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

And for those long lasting water heaters what kind and how often did you perform maintenance on them?

Post# 650884 , Reply# 37   1/4/2013 at 04:08 (4,127 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        

When I moved in I had a gas man come to the house and inspect my ancient gas furnace to make sure it was safe.  It was called Torid Heat.  Don't you just love that name?!  In chrome lettering too.  Be still my heart.  Anything with chrome lettering!!  LOL  He said the furnace even though it was about 40 years old was safe and sound.  Said there was not much to wear out in that furnace.  Said it would probably rust out before it wore out.    While there I asked him about my old Hotpoint water heater and he said they don't make 'em like they used to.  He said that I needed to drain some of the water out of it evey now and then.  So I did that a couple of times, but it wasn't murky or discolored so I never did it again and it has been running fine.  That was about 15 years ago.  Like I said in an earlier post, my sweet baby is 47 years old and still putting out!  LOL            

 


Post# 650886 , Reply# 38   1/4/2013 at 05:20 (4,127 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

qsd-dan's profile picture

Remember that older water heaters were lined with copper back then. Even with little to no maintenance (yearly draining) and poor water quality conditions, they would last a good 20 years. Most water heaters today are all glass lined and don't stand up to the test of time as well as the old copper lined ones.

 

Anybody know when manufacturers began lining water heaters with glass and phased out copper? I'm guessing it was around the 70's.


Post# 650890 , Reply# 39   1/4/2013 at 06:00 (4,127 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

I remember seeing ads for Rheem glass lined tanks (porcelain) in the 50s. One of their water heaters was called a Rheem Fury. I thought that was a neat name. Copper got too expensive except for super TOL heaters. Monel metal tanks lasted forever partly because they did not have a flue going up through the tank; the heat went around the tank. Generally the burner assembly or the valve at the bottom failed and that was why the tank was replaced.

Post# 650891 , Reply# 40   1/4/2013 at 06:05 (4,127 days old) by retro-man (- boston,ma)        

My brother and his wife live in my parents house now and they still have the original water heater. can't remember the name off hand but it is an electric heater and was originally on an off peak meter. He had the electrical panel redone and they the electric company took out the off peak meter so now its on standard electric rates. As a kid i remember looking at it and thought it was odd that it said rock lined. It must be a heavy unit. by the way I think it is going on about 60 - 61 years old now. My dad used to clean the drainage pipes out of the house once or twice a year by attaching a hose to the drain cleanout and running that down through the pipes to clean them out. They just don't make them like that anymore.
Jon


Post# 650905 , Reply# 41   1/4/2013 at 08:41 (4,127 days old) by polkanut (Wausau, WI )        

polkanut's profile picture

By rock lined I wonder if they meant that it was insulated with rock wool like Maytag Dutch Oven stoves were back in the day.


Post# 650908 , Reply# 42   1/4/2013 at 08:52 (4,127 days old) by A440 ()        

Andy your furnace sounds very cool! Take a picture of it if you get a chance. The heat exchangers were made of cast iron in most of the older furnaces. The only drawback as far is energy efficiency is how long it took to get the cast iron hot. Carrier for awhile combated this by having a dual gas valve (Low and High), and dual blower speeds. This is very popular today again with Dual Stage Gas Furnaces.

Tom you are so right. The Ruud Monel tanks and Rheem Cooper Tanks were built to last forever. Many of them are still in service.



Post# 650910 , Reply# 43   1/4/2013 at 08:55 (4,127 days old) by A440 ()        

Ruud - Monel Duo Temp Laundry Master



Post# 650911 , Reply# 44   1/4/2013 at 08:56 (4,127 days old) by A440 ()        

Here is a Ruud - Monel Duo Temp Laundry Master still in use.
What a beautiful beast....



Post# 650951 , Reply# 45   1/4/2013 at 12:21 (4,127 days old) by Maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)        
I have a modern

that is, about 6 years old water heater, Whirlpool brand, gas, 30 gallons. I usually like it well enough, but the water so far this winter has been coming in a bit cooler than usual from the main.


I pay for the gas (and electricity) and I am disappointed now. The thermostat is as high as it can go (I put it there, not the landlord), and currently, I can't even get 145F water(60-75C ??) I know it has to do with the input water temperature, but damn it, I MISS the ability to have 180F water (nearly 100C)if I am willing to pay for the gas!


Oh, well. With the track record of modern water heaters, my landlord will more than likely have to replace it in a few years.



Lawrence/Maytagbear


Post# 650980 , Reply# 46   1/4/2013 at 14:40 (4,126 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

That's exactly what happened with our last hot water tank. Shortly after it started doing that it rusted through the bottom and caused us to replace it.

Down here this is definitely Bradford-White country. It seems that's what all the plumbing companies carry down here. If you want another brand they tell you they'll have to special order it with a 2-3 week wait time.



Post# 651015 , Reply# 47   1/4/2013 at 16:41 (4,126 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area)        

My parents had a Rheem glass-lined water heater installed shortly after we moved into the house in late Summer 1957. The original water heater was a loop in the oil-fired boiler for the baseboard heat. There was a storage tank above the boiler.

Post# 651022 , Reply# 48   1/4/2013 at 17:03 (4,126 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        
Brent,

The Torid Heat went bye bye in the summer of 2008.  My central a/c unit outside was acting up and I opted to have the furnace replaced with a high efficiency gas furnace since the heat and a/c were tied in together.  Tbe old GE a/c unit outside was 30 years old.  My gas bill decreased to less than one half!  Only thing is the new furnace is as toasty as the old one.     


Post# 651171 , Reply# 49   1/5/2013 at 08:34 (4,126 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        
Other Neat Stuff.....

The same aunt and uncle that had the Sears Homart water heater also had a cool lawnmower.  It was aqua colored.  Self-propelled.  It was a Sunbeam brand.  It had a heavy cloth leaf catcher that fit over a metal frame.  You started the engine by winding it up with a hand crank positioned on top of the engine.  That was a good arrangement as long as the engine was tuned and it had a fresh spark plug.  Otherwise it was almost impossible to start.  My aunt and uncle were very elderly and that lawnmower mostly sat in their garage and they paid a neighborhood high school kid to mow for them.  I've never seen another Sunbeam brand mower since and I have been looking.  Another aunt of mine had a self-propelled lawnmower with the same wind-up mechanism.  It was red and the handle bar grips curved inward.  It gave it a funky modern appearance.  She too had trouble starting her mower and eventually gave it to a man that worked for her.  She replaced it with a Sears Craftsman.  It was funky too in that it had an on/off  switch and a pull cord.  There was no way to adjust the engine speed.  There was no choke that I can recall.  It started every time.   It took me a while to get used to the fact that the engine speed was set and there was nothing for me to adjust once it was started.     


Post# 651173 , Reply# 50   1/5/2013 at 08:36 (4,126 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        
My reply to Brent!

...new furnace is not as toasty as the new one.  


Post# 651216 , Reply# 51   1/5/2013 at 12:49 (4,126 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)        
Y'Know, Brent:

danemodsandy's profile picture
That's the first time I've ever seen a water heater in bondage....

* ducks and runs *


Post# 651221 , Reply# 52   1/5/2013 at 13:15 (4,126 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        

LOLLL!


Post# 651226 , Reply# 53   1/5/2013 at 14:04 (4,126 days old) by kimball455 (Cape May, NJ)        
Warm Morning Water Heater

kimball455's profile picture
Retromania

Don't know if this is the one you mean but here is the link to more info and a picture. When I was quite young we had a coal cook stove that heated the kitchen and also supplied hot water. That was replaced with a kerosene stove (vented) and a John Wood water heater. That water heater lasted over 50 years. We had a Magic Chef gas stove for cooking along with the coal stove. It was not fun in the summer. IIRC the coal cook stove was eliminated somewhere about 1947.

Harry


CLICK HERE TO GO TO kimball455's LINK


Post# 651249 , Reply# 54   1/5/2013 at 15:12 (4,125 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        
Harry,

Thanks for the photo and info, but I never saw the Warm Morning heater that my mother described.  I don't know if it was a stove because it was either in the kitchen or back hall.  I'm not sure.  I think she said kitchen.  I know she said they had a wood burning stove for cooking and also a kerosene stove which she called an oil stove.  She clarified that for me that it burned kerosene.  Yes.  Can you imagine how HOT it must have been in the summer here in the South in a kitchen with a wood burning stove AND no air conditioning.  Speaking of hot climates.  My grandparents built a new home in 1946.  In 1950 we had a heat wave and the temp stayed around 100 degrees for a few days.  My grandfather had central air put in their home.  My parents bought the house out of the estate in 1957 when my grandfather died.  Grandmama had already passed away in 1948.  Anyway, the central air was complicated.  There was this monster of a contraption in the furnace room that droned and vibrated, etc, etc.  Outside in the yard on the utility side of the property was something called a water tower. that had to do with the air conditioning.   It made a racket also.  In the late 60's it caught on fire.  A neighbor called that that contraption at the side was smoking.  All that got ripped out and replaced with a big Carrier unit.  After all that fuss and expense of tearing out the old ac and putting in the new system my mother said it was too expensive to run and half the time didn't turn it on unless we had a heat wave.  At least we had tall ceilings and floor fans in every room.         


Post# 651326 , Reply# 55   1/5/2013 at 19:54 (4,125 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        
The height of the ridiculous

A used Day & Night water heater for $110.00.

"slow93" does not begin to do the seller justice.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Tomturbomatic's LINK on eBay


Post# 651349 , Reply# 56   1/5/2013 at 21:28 (4,125 days old) by cornutt (Huntsville, AL USA)        
Ruud Duo Temp

How did that work? Did it have two separate tanks?

Post# 651350 , Reply# 57   1/5/2013 at 21:28 (4,125 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
Warm Morning...

I think what She had was known in the South as a Hot Water Jack, it was a small wood or coal burning stove, with a hollow dome type top, water came in the back at the side and as it was heated rose by gravity out the top and into a storage tank.

Post# 651354 , Reply# 58   1/5/2013 at 21:34 (4,125 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        
Duo Temp

had a mixing or tempering valve to reduce the temp for the hot water for the bathrooms.

Post# 651358 , Reply# 59   1/5/2013 at 21:41 (4,125 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
Hotpoints!!!

In the old days, Hotpoints had elements that were NOT immersion units, they were bands that went AROUND the tank, not quite as fast, but LONG LASTING!!

Post# 651396 , Reply# 60   1/6/2013 at 10:21 (4,125 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

GE shared those elements with Hotpoint, small wonder. I can't help but imagine that they were not as efficient as the immersion type.

Post# 651408 , Reply# 61   1/6/2013 at 13:03 (4,125 days old) by 58limited (Port Arthur, Texas)        

58limited's profile picture

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

A440 wrote:

"Retired after 52 Years of use. Nothing wrong with it. Gas company said it was way too old and red tagged it."


*******************************

 

Oh that's great, now you'll be replacing it every 7 years or so from now on.  Everything new is JUNK !  This sort of thing burns my a**.

 

Ken D.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

How did the gas company see it? Were they working on something else? Are you required to have a periodic inspection? I've never had the gas company come into my house for any reason. When they serviced the outdoor gas lines and replaced the meter, I told them I'd light my own pilots.

 

My house still has the original Ruud Monel gas water heater from 1936 and it works fine.

 

 

 

 


Post# 651409 , Reply# 62   1/6/2013 at 13:08 (4,125 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        
Ruud Monel Water Heater

Is that cool or what.  You win!  :)

 

 


Post# 651411 , Reply# 63   1/6/2013 at 13:11 (4,125 days old) by 58limited (Port Arthur, Texas)        

58limited's profile picture

A local mansion/museum here still has the original working copper 20gal. water heater from 1905. I don't know the manufacturer.


Post# 651413 , Reply# 64   1/6/2013 at 13:54 (4,125 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        
Speaking of water heaters, does anyone recall seeing the typ

Matt,
Do you mean the ones that were counter height and depth with a porcelain top with backsplash? They were available in both gas and electric. They were often in kitchens in the south where there were no basements. I think they were usually 30 gallon tanks.


Post# 651421 , Reply# 65   1/6/2013 at 14:29 (4,124 days old) by luxflairguy (Wilmington NC)        
"looked like a washer or..."

There were two names associated with this style: cabinet style or GE used "Table Top".

Post# 651439 , Reply# 66   1/6/2013 at 17:11 (4,124 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        
Anything 90 and above can direct vent. Anything below 80 wo

I'm confused. What's the difference between direct vent and or requiring a flue? Do you mean PVC vs metal?

Post# 651440 , Reply# 67   1/6/2013 at 17:13 (4,124 days old) by gusherb (Chicago/NWI)        

Don't have an old house so don't have an old water heater like a few of you guys are showing off! But our 50 gallon Ruud with the high recovery 60,000 BTU burner (as opposed to the typical 40k burner) think it's called the Ruudglas Pacemaker is going on 23 years old very soon.
Everyone else on the block had to replace theirs at the 11-15 year mark back between 2002-2006.

It's either Bradford-White or State here (rebadged AO Smith), would rather go with a Rheem/Ruud when the time comes as I keep hearing that Bradford-White's are only lasting 5-8 years around my area. Don't like AO Smith/State.

In the suburbs hot water heat is very hard to come by, even houses from the turn of the century before last had the cheaper gravity-hot-air furnaces with giant "octopus" ductwork. Fortunately I live in a newer not so drafty home with properly sized gas furnaces, because I hate forced air heat. My dad's 3 unit 3 story apartment building in Chicago built in 1915 has hot water with cast iron radiators and as drafty and uninsulated as that brick building is it's incredibly comfortable with the thermostat set to 70, gas bills are 600 dollars though! (used to be 1000 with the old 1950's boiler)


Post# 651442 , Reply# 68   1/6/2013 at 17:18 (4,124 days old) by gusherb (Chicago/NWI)        
Andy

Direct vent means that it pulls all of it's air for combustion from outside and will not remove any conditioned air from your home.

The typical water heater that uses a PVC vent vs metal flue is just a standard efficiency water heater with a blower attached that dilutes the hot exhaust with cooler air from the room to cool the exhaust gases down before it enters the PVC pipe so it doesn't melt. The higher end models (like AO Smith Vertex) are actual 90+% efficient water heaters.


Post# 651446 , Reply# 69   1/6/2013 at 17:49 (4,124 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        
Sorry.

We were talking about waters heaters weren't we??! I guess I was thinking about the furnace I had put in in 2008. It's a 90% (I freeze by the way. Wish had the old one back minus the extra cost of running it!) efficiency gas furnace and is vented out with PVC. Folks approaching the back door see and hear it and think I am running the dryer. The old furnace vented through the chimney that remains from when there was a coal furnace here.


Post# 651481 , Reply# 70   1/6/2013 at 20:02 (4,124 days old) by gusherb (Chicago/NWI)        

Furnaces are like you stated originally. 90+% efficient uses PVC for the exhaust. Anything below that uses a metal flue vent. Direct vent still applies in the same way. But the installers don't always run the second pipe for intake air (usually when they want to save time on the job. When the furnace is equipped to bring outside air in for combustion it should be utilized)

boilers for steam and hot water heating is slightly different. boilers below 85% efficient use the traditional metal flue or chimney. 85% efficient can use a stainless steel vent that can be piped out the side. above 90% and it can use PVC just like a 90% furnace.

It's most common to see those PVC vents piped out the side of a building, and that's usually done for convenience. It can be piped out the roof in the same manner as a metal flue too. My neighbors went with a high efficiency furnace and power vent water heater back in 1992 and chose to vent them both out the roof.


Post# 651483 , Reply# 71   1/6/2013 at 20:12 (4,124 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        
Thank you

Thanks for the clarification. I have seen the vent plus an intake and didn't know what the intake was until you explained it.

Post# 652205 , Reply# 72   1/10/2013 at 08:00 (4,121 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        
NuTone

The house I grew up in had a NuTone exhaust hood over my mother's Custom Imperial range. The control buttons were different colors. The material was brushed aluminum or stainless steel. My guess would be aluminum, but I not sure. It had a cool feature in that the fan/motor could be removed which I saw my mother do quite a few times as she was a clean freak. Guess that's where I got it from. Wish I had it now. It would look great in my old kitchen!!

Post# 652209 , Reply# 73   1/10/2013 at 08:47 (4,121 days old) by polkanut (Wausau, WI )        

polkanut's profile picture

The woman who does our taxes has a brown natural gas Warm Morning heater in the basement where her office is, and that little thing really makes that entire area nice & toasty warm.  It's about 25y/o and has a standing pilot light.  Before that she had a wood space heater, but it was a pain to use, and by the time you were ready to go back upstairs is when it would start to get warm down there. 


Post# 652281 , Reply# 74   1/10/2013 at 15:00 (4,120 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        

I picked my mother up at the assisted-living and took her to a dental appointment and I forgot to ask her details about the Warm Morning Heater they had in the house when she was a little girl. I can't remember what it ran on. It was either wood or coal. After I took her back to her apartment I drove up North Main Street to an Aldi's grocry store. It's warm today and I had the window down. All of a sudden I smelled an odor that was nostalgic for me. When I was a kid we would visit my father's sister and her family at a place they had on Sullivan's Island out from Charleston, SC. They had a gas stove in their kitchen that ran on propane. It always smelled faintly of propane or 'bottled gas' as they called it. To me it has a different odor than natural gas.

Post# 652534 , Reply# 75   1/11/2013 at 22:29 (4,119 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        
Department of Redundancy Redundancy

sudsmaster's profile picture
They are called hot water heaters to distinguish them from the warm water heaters and the tepid water heaters, which don't sell very well to begin with.

Realistically, everyone knows what you mean if you say "hot water heater", instead of "water heater". I think there's a natural tendency to add the "hot" to "water heater" because hot water indeed is the desired end result.

As in, you turn on the hot water faucet and nothing but ice cold water comes out. The problem? The gizmo at the other end of the hot water pipe isn't heating properly. You want what comes out of the hot water faucet to be heated. Hence, hot water heater.


Post# 652537 , Reply# 76   1/11/2013 at 22:46 (4,119 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        
PVC venting of 90%+ gas furnaces

sudsmaster's profile picture
I have read about these, but am puzzled as to how one hooks up the pipe. I understand that the furnace is so efficient that the exhaust is cool enough not to melt the PVC. But literature I've read indicates that in various jurisdictions, the exhaust condensate is acidic enough that it's not legal to discharge it on the ground, but rather it must be sent down a drain. Where I suppose it could eat through the drain pipe (by law they have to be cast iron or copper here).

In my house this could present a challenge. While the current gas furnace is in the crawl space, and it vents through a six inch diameter ceramic type of chimney tube to the roof, there are no nearby drains to accept said exhaust condensate were I to upgrade the furnace to a high efficiency one. There would be a convenient run to the nearest foundation vent if dribbling the condensate on the ground (in this case, onto the concrete courtyard/driveway adjacent to the home). I'd be a little worried about staining the concrete and more worried at the acid eating through the concrete.

Is this a legitimate worry? Are people directing the condensate pipe for their HE furnaces onto the ground (or concrete) without problems?




Post# 652599 , Reply# 77   1/12/2013 at 08:06 (4,119 days old) by polkanut (Wausau, WI )        

polkanut's profile picture

Our new Carrier high efficiency, and our previous Lennox Pulse gas furnaces both have/had a reservior attached to the outside of them to where the condensate collects.  When the reservior is full the float inside trips a small pump, and it is pumped overhead through tubing that is fastened to the floor joists, and it comes down, and drains into the basement sink.  I save the water, and use it for watering houseplants, and in our steam iron.  I've not had any problems with it being too acidic, because it is just condensation.  I usually get a 6qt pail of water every day and a half, even more when the central a/c is in use.


Post# 652611 , Reply# 78   1/12/2013 at 08:28 (4,119 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

The heated air is exhausted through the 2 or 3 inch pipe. The acidic water usually exits the furnace at a point so low that a condensate pump is used to lift it to a standpipe. My PVC pipe for the furnace drain is shared by at least one washer and then intersects the main line. I hope the condensate does not attack the cast iron sewer pipe, but this house has had a condensing furnace for over 25 years so if it were going to do damage, I guess it is too late to do anything.

I wonder what type of acid it is. Would it be carbonic acid from the combining of the carbon dioxide from combustion with the water vapor in the natural gas? If so, that is not generally a strong acid, but you would not want it sitting, undiluted, in a copper drain trap. It would probably interact with the concrete to form a carbonate. Some experimental prodecures for capturing CO2 have piped it into salt water to form calcium carbonate.


Post# 653030 , Reply# 79   1/13/2013 at 13:15 (4,118 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        
Someone please tell me...

What the rumble rumble may have been in the gas water heater at my aunt's house when she turned on the hot tap at the kitchen sink?

Post# 653054 , Reply# 80   1/13/2013 at 14:50 (4,117 days old) by Maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)        
Might be

calcium carbonate or other hard water minerals. They can cause noise in the tank, which is why prudent people drain a few gallons from the valve every year. Hard water minerals can act as insulation, causing the burner to run longer. At least, that's what my heating contractor told me before I entered Rental Hell.



Lawrence/Maytagbear


Post# 653090 , Reply# 81   1/13/2013 at 15:34 (4,117 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        
Thanks!

We don't have hard water here where I live, but there are trace mineral deposits which may be the culprit. No. I doubt my aunt and uncle ever bled any water off. Thanks again!

Post# 653208 , Reply# 82   1/14/2013 at 01:29 (4,117 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
I get the same rumble occasionally on the 30 year old Monkey Ward hot water heater here. I've replaced the anode rod twice (last time it had a lot of fine fluffy white crud on it) and flush the tank every few years. It's also relatively soft water here. I have a remote inspection camera now so the next time I pull the anode rod I'll use it to inspect the inside of the tank.

Just in case I have a spare water heater (lightly used) that I could replace the Monkey Ward with. But the Ward seems just fine.

Thanks for the advice on the condensing furnace drain. I agree that the acid is most likely carbonic acid. The nearest stand pipe is in the laundry closet on the main house level (it's one story above a crawl, the furnace is in the crawl), but the drain line for the washer is copper, which runs for about 10 feet under the house to a cast iron line, so not sure I'd want acidic water dripping into it all the time.



Post# 653225 , Reply# 83   1/14/2013 at 05:59 (4,117 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

If the furnace shares a drain with a washer, the weak acid would be flushed from time to time and would be somewhat diluted by the water in the trap. If you decide to go that woute, you could drop a calcium pill or a TUMS in the standpipe every other day or so during the heating season. At least the drain would not belch, unlike most people who take an antacid.

Post# 653403 , Reply# 84   1/14/2013 at 20:18 (4,116 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
Unfortunately the standpipe for the washer is recessed into the wall behind the washer, and not accessible unless the washer is pulled out of the laundry closet.

Well, the current (aged) furnace works well enough. Seems to be in pretty good shape; no CO detected in the home, either. Which is good since the furnace is about 33 years old now. And it's come in handy during our most recent cold snap (frosty windshields in the mornings).



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