Thread Number: 45716
Electronic Controls, Bad Rap?
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Post# 668805   3/27/2013 at 23:45 (4,018 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        

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It seems that I often read here on the forums about the undesirability of electronic controls as opposed to mechanical timers etc. But is it really the electronics that deserve the blame? Surely we can all admit that computer control can add some advantageous options to an appliance.

Properly designed and constructed electronic controls _should be_ far more reliable then anything mechanical in the long term. Solid state electronics don't wear out but they can be damaged by impulses etc if they aren't engineered correctly. Note I'm not saying that current appliance controls are properly designed...

Today the case is often that costs have been slashed and quality has been cut to meet the target price. I believe cost cutting and poor design will also effect mechanical timers too. Will a mechanical timer made today still be hauling-the-mail in 50 years?? I don't think today's mechanicals will be as durable and overbuilt as those of the past. And its not a fault of the timer being mechanical, its that quality costs money and people don't buy for quality these days.

With any appliance made today the control(s), be they electronic or mechanical, will likely be unavailable in 10-15 years. Perhaps some NOS parts will be available but control failure may doom the machine.

I have a suspicion that mechanical timers built today will likely prove less easily serviceable then ones made in the past. In order to make things more inexpensively, assemblies are crimped, welded or bonded together. Using screws crews cost money and increases failures. While electronic controls do use components that are either proprietary or may have short End of Life availability, many of the components that fail an electronic control can be substituted with a different part to get the control running again. My opinion is that the electronic boards may be more repairable then a mechanical timer on down the road.

To a large extent the considered non-repair ability and fear of electronics is due to the fact that electronic technology is not as well understood by many repair people. For most of us the mechanical parts are easy to see and figure out, electronics are more of a "black art". It reminds me a lot of how automotive mechanics took to fuel injection. Fuel injection is easier to diagnose and repair then a carburetor, you can do tests and actually isolate the failed part. A carburetor has to be torn down and rebuilt with the hope (fingers crossed) that the problem was fixed. Personally I'd much rather repair a FI system then a carburetor. For full disclosure my opinion of electronics is somewhat biased by having a background in the electronics field.

I only throw this out there to offer a different viewpoint on current controls available in modern machines. I really believe that it is the cost cutting that will cause today's machines to be less long lived then their predecessors. This may spark some lively discussion, now where did I put my asbestos underwear??





Post# 668806 , Reply# 1   3/27/2013 at 23:47 (4,018 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

Our 1993 Whirlpool set has electronic controls and has never had a problem with them.
But then again they have always been used in an indoor laundry room. If they were in a laundry area in a garage, I don't know how long they would last due to the heat and humidity that's out there.


Post# 668807 , Reply# 2   3/28/2013 at 00:10 (4,018 days old) by retropia ()        

The light switch on our over-the-range Whirlpool microwave stopped functioning a few years after we bought it. The light would stay on continuously, so we took out the bulb. The switch is part of an electronic touch pad, and so to fix the light switch, I'd have to replace the entire touch pad. If I remember correctly, the part alone was somewhere near $150, plus labor on top of it. It would be nice to have the light and switch functioning, as we used it a lot.

If it was just a mechanical slide switch, I'd have to believe it wouldn't cost so much to fix it. As it is, it is not cost-effective to replace the entire touch pad. So we're waiting for something else major to go wrong so we can send the entire unit off to be recycled. It is wasteful, but that is the way it seems to go with modern electronics.

Probably from the manufacturer's point of view, it costs less to include all of the switches in a touch pad instead of having individual switches that can be replaced.

(As an aside, John L/Combo 52 said that the light switch failing is not uncommon on these microwave touch pads; I believe he said it is due to a power surge.)


Post# 668809 , Reply# 3   3/28/2013 at 00:19 (4,018 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

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Electronics 'may be more repairable' but for the average buyer calling the average repairman the skill does not exist. Trouble with electronics in appliances seems they are under-engineered for the conditions, as above, heat and moisture. Another is that the marginal electronics are connected with no protection to marginal assemblies like wax motors, so when the assembly fails it kills the board.

Electronics also tend to be grossly overpriced for what they are. The board, components and fab -- all done in China -- can't possibly cost more than $20 and can't possibly be bought for under 5 times that. Electronic appliance boards are an engineered profit center for the vendor. They're designed to fail under any but optimal conditions, and the pricing is piracy.

Other than my 1982 GE microwave I don't own any electronic appliances, and I don't want to.


Post# 668815 , Reply# 4   3/28/2013 at 00:33 (4,018 days old) by washer111 ()        
Good Point:

You make a good point - if electronics were actually built properly, and manufacturers didn't just cheap out and run high current applications through cheap circuitboards, then I'll bet that anything digital would be more reliable for sure! However, this is not the case. Most washers/dishwashers/dryers run heating power, motor power etc through the control board, rather than via a relay, which puts huge stress on the circuitry - this causes premature failure. I believe the same problem caused issues on the older Chevrolet Caprices (see link below) - where high current for the blower motor (A/C system) was run through the controls, which eventually burnt them out, or started a fire. 

 

Although mechanical stuff has the similar design flaws and electrical routing issues - even KitchenAid did it on their dishwashers, as another thread highlighted. The timers on those were obviously over-engineered, otherwise they too would've bit the dust long ago. 

 

If all of this were addressed, you may actually see modern appliance that would run for longer - although poor resistance against heat and humidity would certainly get the better of them eventually. Our old washer (and our neighbours identical set) was cheap enough that when on a Hot wash, steam billowing out of the back of the lid (next to the digital controls) would condense all over the control panel, and likely enter the un-protected area behind the panel - wreaking havoc. Our washer never got this treatment: It was used on Cold water only (hahaha!) Next doors, is more unfortunate. However, in the 3+ years its been there, it hasn't broken down - whilst ours needed a recall kit (although ours was a genuine HE machine, with auto water level and a "Freeze for 5" cycle - that one had manual water level and spins rinses, but no recirculation or any other HE BS to cause trouble). 


Post# 668842 , Reply# 5   3/28/2013 at 06:37 (4,018 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Things like car, jets and space shuttles are full of electronics and they are subjected to far more extreme conditions than those in a washer or dishwasher. As others have stated, the problem is the inferior quality of electronics used in home appliances. The cheap stuff has proved itself unable to handle vibration, heat, or humid/moist conditions. The board on my circa 2004 Frigidaire dishwasher had to be replaced three times in two years due to failures. The board on Smokey The Maytag (which replaced the Frigidaire) malfunctioned and caused the heating element to operate for hours at a time while the machine was off and nearly caught fire. 

 

I agree:  It's not electronics per se that suck.  The problem is the inferior quality of the electronics being used in consumer goods.


Post# 668849 , Reply# 6   3/28/2013 at 07:41 (4,018 days old) by DirectDriveDave ()        

What I love about the mechanical timers is that they tell you exactly how far along something is, whether it be a washer or dishwasher. Now, some electronics did have a "time remaining" which was good, but more often than not, I saw that they didn't have something like that.

Also, in the unlikely event that there is a power failure, and then (hopefully soon) comes back, it will resume right where it left off, you can also, if you need to, turn washer timers to the beginning of a cycle again, if you think you need more wash time, and when you either push in a knob or turn it to off it is fully OFF; no standby.


Post# 668854 , Reply# 7   3/28/2013 at 08:02 (4,018 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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A large drawback of electronics IMO is integration.  For example, a single control board runs everything on a double wall oven, resulting in BOTH ovens being inoperable when the board fails.  One oven is still usable if the other's electro-mechanical thermostat or selector switch fails.


Post# 668855 , Reply# 8   3/28/2013 at 08:03 (4,018 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Electronic Major Appliance Controls

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Good thread topic Phil, problems with poor durability and expensive to repair electronic controls on appliances are a daily problem for us repair guys and you are very correct it should not be this way. We have the technology to build controls that would almost NEVER fail in the life of most home appliances. But manufacturers have usually taken the cheap way and have not had a strong desire to keep appliances out in the field repairable in many cases in barely 10 years.

 

Cheap membrane touch controls may make sense on $100 microwave ovens, but my objection comes in when they use the same level of construction on $1000, 2000, 3000 and up to nearly 10,000 dollar appliances that are built-in to your kitchens and laundry rooms.

 

Touch Membrane controls are very poor at best for durability, notice they are not used on cars, your computer and probably are unheard of in military equipment, LOL.

 

  Phil the guy who started this thread is my younger brother and I think we should also see if we could get one of our older brothers  [ Jerry ] to write something in this thread. Jerry is a Quality Control engineer with expertise in the electronics field. I know that I have certainly learned lots from all four of my brothers and Mother and Father as we are a very technical family, we always have plenty to talk about at dinner, LOL.

 

I do see some signs of progress in the major home appliance industry and electronics are certainly here to stay, consumers should keep up the pressure on manufacturers when they have problems and hopefully there will be more competition among manufacturers to build the best and most reliable product again. Some of you may remember the quality moves by most appliance manufacturers starting in the 60s and continuing through the 70s that were done in response to the many serious problems that major appliances had in the 50s 60s and 70s. Unfortunately by the time every thing was rolling along in the 80s and as reliability had improved so much the emphasis on building the most reliable appliance was put on the back burner. I do predict it will become a bigger issue sometime in the near future if enough consumers complain, CRs could help lead the way but I think they have lost much of their original mission of helping protect consumers from poor quality appliances. John


Post# 668981 , Reply# 9   3/28/2013 at 23:55 (4,017 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        
Humidity and Heat

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In most cases solid state electronics should be very impervious to both humidity and heat, provided it is within reason. As long as the components aren't too hot to touch, they will be fine. I have serviced a few solid state amplifiers that have melted to solder on the transistor pads, 60/40 solder melts at ~360 Deg F... The amps I repaired lived for years after the cooling issues were cured!

Humidity can cause horrible damage due to corrosion. Connectors and contacts, especially those with dissimilar metals can be problematic. Years ago we had a TOL Whirlpool dishwasher that was one of the early units with an electronic control. The card edge connector would corrode badly due to steam and condensation. The fingers on the board were soldered when it went through the wave solder machine. Several times I had to reflow the solder on the fingers and clean the connector to get the unit to run. I believe that John used to cut off the connector and actually solder the wires to the pads!! Ultimately I used a DeOxit grease from Caig Labs to eliminate the corrosion problem. A buddy of mine took that machine and it is still running today.

Solid state electronics can be sensitive to overloads and impulses (surges) but good design will remove those risks. I find that many problems are blamed on surges and a lot of surge protectors are sold this way, the problem is likely blown out of proportion though.

One example of how amazingly durable solid state electronics can be is the Voyager I spacecraft that was launched in 1977. 36 years later, after enduring a the stresses of launch and a lifetime of cold, we are still hearing from it as it is poised to leave our solar system. Of course the design cost of the space craft electronics and one of our modern FL washers is just slightly different...


Post# 668990 , Reply# 10   3/29/2013 at 00:56 (4,017 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        

Interesting thread the Apollo moon missions IIRC were controlled with electronics, that were slow and primitive by todays standards. The stakes were higher than a load of dishes or laundry. Are controls in modern appliances just overly complicated? Will we ever see a modern F/L with the basic 3 cycles of the past (Normal, PP, Delicate). I really do not need controls that read like an Excel Spread sheet. While we are at it lets get the print/displays large enough to not need reading glasses. It is a household chore not a missile launch. alr

Post# 669032 , Reply# 11   3/29/2013 at 10:14 (4,017 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        
Complexity

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Alr,

You raise a good point here with issues of complexity. One advantage of electronic control of a machine is that cycles are now just software. Anything the developer can dream up can be reality for more or less no extra cost. I like to call it "feature creep" they just keep adding and adding till the typical user is overwhelmed. Adding a cycle in a mechanical timer requires an entire redesign of the timer and is expensive, especially if the number of units sold is limited. Hopefully they at least can keep the user interface semi-intuitive or they will just cause problems for themselves.

Of course our desire for complexity (or not) is highly personal. I have been considering a Huebsch commercial softmount front loader. They have an electronic control where the user can fully control the cycles for time, temp, speed, added rinses etc. Might take a while to figure it all out. But the versatility would be awesome! So would be the 9kw sump heater, Powerrrr! It reminds me a bit of Robert's PC controlled washer.

Indeed aerospace electronics are robust, even those back in the 50's & 60's when solid state was still in its infancy and suffering from early development and fragility. They simply engineered VERY conservatively and with lots of redundancy for safety. The fact that Apollo 13 made it back after all it had to endure was testament to care they took in the design. Of course all that cost a lot of money and that surely won't happen in the commercial market.


Post# 669173 , Reply# 12   3/30/2013 at 01:59 (4,016 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Another factor on Apollo and other space missions and critcal electronic applications-is back up systems in case the primary one failed.This has happened on the space flights-the control system had to go to back ups.That is why they are there.Now to design a home appliance that way-premium electronics with back ups-would indeed,be just too expensive for average Joe the buyer.And also----some of those space trips used VACUUM TUBED electronics.Esp the radio transmitters.Even Apollo had tubed transmitters.Eimac made the tubes.Remember there are VAST diffrences between critcal grade electronics-solid state or tube as opposed to consumer electronics.In the critical grades-premium grade semiconductors and tubes,as well as other parts are used-even the circuit boards!Circuit boards and parts were treated with fungicides and imprgenated with epoxy to keep moisture out of the boards and parts.

Post# 669178 , Reply# 13   3/30/2013 at 03:28 (4,016 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

One of the reasons why electronic controls have a bad rap is due to the poor quality and engineering which went into designing them. We can blame the bean counters for this, only because it can have the possibility of adding a lot of cost to something.

A lot of people don't know that there are different grades and tolerances of electronic components. To save a few bucks, the manufacturers sometimes use low grade components with large tolerances.

Case in point, a "budget" 330 ohm resistor can have a variance as much as 5 percent, which means it could have a resistance between 313.5 ohms to 346.5 ohms. Whereas, a more expensive resistor with a 1 percent tolerance will have a resistance between 326.7 and 333.3 ohms.

Now, in a batch of 100,000 resistors with a 5 percent tolerance, a lot of them could be very close to 330 ohms, but there's a chance some of them may not be.

Now, the problem is, when you have a component which is slightly out of whack like that, it can degrade the lifespan of the other components on the circuit board, requiring repair or eventual replacement. However, we're still talking about a few short years after the board has left the QA control department.

Unfortunately, manufacturers really don't have any incentive to make the electronics last past the warranty period.

This is why Military spec components have to meet very rigorous quality control. A 5 percent resistor would never be found in milspec equipment. When there are matters of life and death involved, they can't afford to have electronics fail.

Built properly, electronics can outlast anything mechanical. At least IMHO. In saying that though, this is barring things like lightening strikes, etc.

The big move into electronics is because mechanical timers are limited as to what they can do. Whereas, a Microcontroller can do anything and everything imaginable.

The benefits outweigh any drawbacks...


Post# 669190 , Reply# 14   3/30/2013 at 08:19 (4,016 days old) by thefixer ()        

It's really sad that companys are putting out such crap. The new (3 years) Whirlpool VMW top load design which is everywhere being sold under various brand names and model numbers is a total piece of crap. The control board being one of the many failure items. Prices have recently increased on repair parts for these washers with the control board now running $275-$375! With the cost of the board after markup and the tech service fee, you can buy a new washer. What a joke. And now your 2-3 year old washer is ending up in the landfill or getting recycled.

Nobody is going to be repairing these boards. The average tech has very limited knowledge in basic electrical troubleshooting skills let alone repairing electronic circuit boards. Not that Whirlpool is going to provide the schematics anyway. Iv'e been an electronic service technician for 37 years doing component level repairs. It has been increasingly difficult to do board repairs because of the small parts, density of part layout and specialized equipment required to replace parts. It's a dying art and not cost effective nowadays. It's a downhill slide as long as we keep buying chinese made junk. Not much is made to last anymore.

Eric


Post# 669256 , Reply# 15   3/30/2013 at 19:35 (4,015 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

There is something to be said for purchasing something which can still be serviced.

Even though a lot of us probably couldn't repair a mechanical timer, it certainly looks easy to replace one.

I guess that's really the only problem I have with electronic boards going bad, the price of replacement.


Post# 669270 , Reply# 16   3/30/2013 at 20:23 (4,015 days old) by optima (Cumbria England)        
Electronic Controls

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Quite simple Mechanical controlled. Totally hate todays eletronicaly controlled washers.

Post# 669447 , Reply# 17   3/31/2013 at 16:52 (4,014 days old) by philcobendixduo (San Jose)        
Electronic controls are fine if well engineered

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My 1987 Kenmore "Limited Edition Electronic Fabric Care" washer and dryer are still going strong with never a problem with the electronic controls even with all the heat, moisture and vibration associated with the operation of washers and dryers.

My 1994 Maytag dishwasher - the same. No problems with the electronic controls.

My 1987 GE Spacemaker over the the range microwave - no issues with electronic controls.

I know from what I've read online that many of todays electronic controls are "under engineered" and use "cheap" parts that don't last. One would think that with the advances in computers and electronics, today's controls would be MORE reliable but such is not the case. Very sad.


Post# 737745 , Reply# 18   2/26/2014 at 04:06 (3,683 days old) by juan0069 ()        
Membrane Keyboards

Sorry combo52, but nearly all modern computer keyboards are of the "membrane" design... True, they use a key with a plunger to press on the membrane instead of your finger, but still, same design under the keys.

Post# 737798 , Reply# 19   2/26/2014 at 09:02 (3,683 days old) by julianweber (Rome, GA)        
Membrane Keyboards

@juan0069
"Sorry combo52, but nearly all modern computer keyboards are of the "membrane" design..."

That may be true but you will usually find Cherry keyboard mechanisms in most point of sale system where they keyboards are heavily used. Also, Data entry personnel usually seek out the Cherry keyboards or IBM buckling spring keyboards as they claim they can wear out a modern membrane keyboard in under six months.


Post# 737803 , Reply# 20   2/26/2014 at 09:28 (3,683 days old) by washman (o)        
Well..........

philcobendixduo makes an interesting point. Notice the years he posted for the age of his machines. Notice this was before it became the "thing" to cut costs to the bone. I think that alone explains why his equipment still works. Even though it could be argued electronics were not as advanced as what we have today, it seems apparent they were not built to a "price point" to the extent we see today.

This same logic applies to desktop PCs as well. When I started in IT, an IBM model 60 model 56 or model 70 was da bomb so to speak. I installed a great many of these as file servers on a Novell token ring network. Even some Type 1 baseband configurations as well.
Even the value point 425sx line of machines were pretty sturdy. These machines, being network servers, ran 24/7/365. Service calls were rare.

Then with the 300GL series, things started to go awry. The first defect was the PSU. We replaced those by the dozen. Sometimes 3-4 times a year.
Then we got the "stinkcenter" series 8187 8140 8160 and those were five star pieces of crap. Mobo replacement was so common, that our field guys carried them on hand constantly. I can see why IBM sold out to Lenovo.

I open a desktop PC today and see wiring that barely meets spec for current flow and resistance. I see mobos less than 1/4 the thickness of yesteryear mobos. I see the thinnest possible solder and PSU with barely enough output to run the processor. Start plugging in gobs of USB powered peripherals and good luck!

Dell is no better IMHO. I know some people swear by a Dell PC and that is fine, but they too have a rash of failures that makes me wonder. And these are supposed to be "business class" machines. Pardon me while I laugh.

As I see it there are two entities to blame here. First are the beancounters. When Wall Street started demanding that accountants be placed in charge of business decisions, ostensibly to ensure "shareholder value", product quality declined. Sure the price held steady or went down, but jeez, just look at the junk foisted on a gullible public. Lesson here, never put a beancounter in charge. Of anything!

Second, I blame the consumer. I know, I know, everybody and his cousin wants a good deal or the best price, but come on. How cheap does something have to be before a brave soul questions how it was made to be so cheap in the first place?
It is very common to witness someone bitching about the supposed high price of a given product or service, but have you ever noticed no one questions an absurdly cheap price? And despite all this, we STILL run to the nearest BIG BOX to scrounge for the cheapest thing we can get. In other words consumer demand for the cheapest results in well, a pile of cheap (but junk) products on the shelves. More and more each day, it is getting harder to find a quality anything, even for those who can and will pay more.

Which brings to mind VOIP. I signed on with Vonage back in 2003. Compared to what I used to pay Sprint for a landline, it was a godsend. Caller ID, 3 way calling, call forwarding, etc were all included for a flat price. I could call Europe for pennies as opposed to dollars with AT&T. I was and still am very satisfied. All for 29.95/month. I think it went up but I am still under 40 bucks a month and I can call all I want when I want wherever I want.
I used to help moderate some VOIP forums a long time ago. Well as you might imagine, VOIP was like a weed. Every week, there was a new startup company offering something a little cheaper then what was already out there. And the boards were chock full of "Voip hoppers" as we called them. They'd sign with Vonage, stick around, then some other company like Packet 8 or Brightwing would have something for 21.95 a month and they'd jump on that. Then company X would come along for 14.95 a month and you'd see a mass exodus to that company. And so on and so forth. It was crazy, it really was. It was almost like a drug addiction in a weird sort of way. I don't honestly know which, if any, of those early VOIP companies are still around but for a while, it was like an all you can eat buffet.

Which only goes to reinforce the fetish Americans seem to have in going after the cheapest of the cheap.

I'm certainly old enough to remember when appliances were considered "durable goods". And I am well aware there are other members here, older than me, that remember it also. Sad thing is, an entire generation of millennials or urban
hipsters are coming of age in this climate of throwaway products and they see absolutely nothing wrong with it.

So yes, electronics, when done right, are a good thing. In of themselves they are no worse than a kitchen knife. The reality is, however, they are NOT being done right and thanks to a wealth of stores of problems with washing machines, are only getting a bad name.


Post# 737809 , Reply# 21   2/26/2014 at 09:52 (3,683 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Durable Goods

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Appliances are still considered Durable Goods, and in fact many appliances are lasting and being kept longer than ever and they are diffidently not requiring as many repairs during their usable lifetimes.

Ben [don't take this personally ] the thing that makes appliances throw away appliances is when people throw away a 10-15 YO dryer that could be easily repaired because it squeaks, it gets very tiresome to hear your constant rants about lack of quality when the real problem is the appliance owners inability to get minor appliance problems addressed.

John L.


Post# 737814 , Reply# 22   2/26/2014 at 10:16 (3,683 days old) by washman (o)        
Well John L you have your opinion and I have mine

and before you pass judgement on me (again), realize that I solicited input from not one but TWO local appliance repair shops in my area before deciding to replace the dryer. You run a repair business am I correct? Do you charge for a service call to examine/repair an appliance that is wayyy out of warranty? Do you charge for each visit, say for example one to replace rollers and says 6 months later you replace the heater? Or do you only charge ONCE regardless of how many times you come out? Both repair shops told me that in their extensive experience with GE dryers, the usual set of repairs is rollers, followed by motor, followed by the heater assembly.
So yes, in theory I could have had it fixed but what happens when the next ______ fill in the blank breaks? What about the cost of yet another service call? What about part availability? And the cost of the part itself?

Sure, I made a judgement call, no doubt about that. I'm not in any regret over buying new. Nor am I unhappy with the GE dryer. It did what it was designed to do and probably lasted longer than GE expected it to! I got my money's worth from it (and the washer) and I have no regrets buying them in the first place. In fact, GE was the first brand I looked at when I decided I was going to replace the dryer. See my post on reasons why I did not buy GE.

For your statement to even have the slightest bit of merit and don't take this personally :) I would have to announce that I got rid of 2 perfectly working appliances because I wanted a different brand, color, or wash tub composition. Then you could take me to task, no ifs ands or buts.

I'm glad you are tiring of my rants about quality. That means you are at least reading my posts and I am flattered to no end. Now perhaps you can use your decades of experience in the business and your connections with Whirlpool, GE et al and advise them to start building better quality products.


Post# 737847 , Reply# 23   2/26/2014 at 15:23 (3,682 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Much As One Loves the Mechanical/Electronic Controls

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Of my older Miele washing machine and swore would hate fully electronic controlled machines, really quite fancy the Oko-Lavamat by AEG. It is simply streets ahead of the Miele in so many ways.

The fully electronic controls allow for much finer control of the motor and drum movements. This means instead of spins that cause the machine to bang and clang (the Miele) nearly 99.9% of the time the spins are well balanced and therefore silent. Great for late night laundering.

Will agree with others electronic controls are only as good as the quality put into them. Miele for instance makes all their own motherboards for that reason.


Post# 737853 , Reply# 24   2/26/2014 at 16:12 (3,682 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        
are only as good as the quality put into them

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And this also applies to the mechanical controls too. The wonderfully overbuilt timers of the past have performed admirably. But as they say never use "past performance to predict future trends", mechanical controls in today's machines are surely cost cut in the same manner as the electronics are.

Check back with me in 10-15 years to see how they did ;)


Post# 737934 , Reply# 25   2/26/2014 at 21:34 (3,682 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
GE Dryers

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Ben your GE Dryer Did Not Even Have Rollers, I would never trust the opinion of the guys that tried to scare you out of fixing your old dryer again.

It is fairly easy to check the condition of heaters, motor , idler pulley, etc when fixing a dryer, your wonderful [ I sold 2 SQ dryers and 1 FL and 2 TL SQs today ] new SQ dryer will have a failure in the first 7-15 years of use also, I hope you don't trash it also.


Post# 737981 , Reply# 26   2/27/2014 at 06:43 (3,682 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Phil

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I love that term "Feature creep"!!!

 

John so what failure am I expecting in my dryer in 5 years??

 

Alliance must have got the controls in the Horizon right as its been in deadly tenant service now 13 years with only a ripped boot as a repair.

 

 


Post# 737995 , Reply# 27   2/27/2014 at 08:27 (3,682 days old) by washman (o)        
way ahead of ya combo52

in fact, I have a NIB timer for the washer on its way courtesy of Ebay. This will cover me after the warranty runs out. I would assume I can replace it with a little gumption.

I'm also searching for the motor and pump; again to cover me after the warranty runs out.
Thus, at least as far as the washer goes, I will keep repairing it until the cows come home.


Post# 738191 , Reply# 28   2/28/2014 at 03:33 (3,681 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        

Washman, grab a few center seals too if that is your plan.  I had an Amana washer that really put the hurt on me at 7 years of "normal" use.  In fact it was my last "expensive"  washer.  It is my understanding that a center seal change out is the same expensive repair on the modern TL SQ  machine.   As far as electronic controls,  dishwashers  seem to get the most trouble threads around here.




This post was last edited 02/28/2014 at 03:50
Post# 833660 , Reply# 29   7/24/2015 at 20:50 (3,169 days old) by bethiek ()        
Kenmore Touch Pad

Has anyone replaced the Kenmore touch pad control screen on a dryer? Mine has apparently gone bad, no connection when cycle is touched, just a clunk sound. Obviously they are no longer made, found one used guaranteed to work. Not sure if I can replace myself.

Post# 833766 , Reply# 30   7/25/2015 at 14:10 (3,168 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
This is something

mark_wpduet's profile picture
I've always worried about when looking at a new appliance! I love my new Maytag dishwasher (now 13 mos old). When reading reviews, people LOVED the machine but here and there you would see "do not buy this dishwasher" control board failed just after a year of use, etc. So I'm always paranoid because the model I want usually is not mechanically controlled.....

In fact, every single appliance I have is computer controlled

- WP over the range microwave from 2004 (still working)
- WP 2004 dishwasher died in 2014 but from the motor, not from control board
- WP Duet Dryer from 2005 (still works)
- WP Duet washer from 2005 (still works) but control board replaced 2nd year
- WP range from 2004 (still works)
- Maytag dishwasher fro 2014 (still works)

I watched this video on YouTube before I bought my Maytag hoping I would never experience this problem....






Post# 833772 , Reply# 31   7/25/2015 at 14:55 (3,168 days old) by washerdude (Canada )        

So for we've only had 1 applaince with 1 computer board fault. Strangly it happen right after the warranty.

Kenmore (Whirlpool) French door fridge -3 years - computer board replaced

Whirlpool duet washer - 10 months old - Still works

Kenmore (Whirlpool) Dishwasher - 1 year - Still works (Doing a load right now infact *LOL*)

Kenmore (Built by samsung) OTR microwave - 2 years old - Still works

Kenmore (Built by Frigidaire) stove - 2 years - Still works

Maytag dryer - 4 years - no computer - Still works


Post# 834013 , Reply# 32   7/27/2015 at 06:52 (3,167 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Control Board failures

combo52's profile picture

Hi Mark, if it helps your luck at all with your new MT DW the veido you posted about repairing a MT DW was about one of the older MT designed and built DWs. WP scrapped that design and I can tell you as a tech that that MT design was the worst DW I have ever seen for control panel, board and door latch problems we ever saw in the last decade or so.

 

Your new MT DW is a completely different DW, this is where it is a shame that WP kept the MT name. We sell and install about two new MT DWs a week, no problems with any in the last few years yet.

 

John L.


Post# 834122 , Reply# 33   7/27/2015 at 23:58 (3,166 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
John

mark_wpduet's profile picture
thanks for that. Makes me feel better. Yea I thought that was an older model maytag in the video. The maytag I have is honestly the best dishwasher I have ever used and ironically it feels more solid than any dishwasher I've ever used. Hopefully the controls won't fail. I know this particular dishwasher I have doesn't have a vent at all, which is odd. So I wasn't sure if that would cause shortened life of the control board because of the heat and moisture.

Post# 834153 , Reply# 34   7/28/2015 at 06:54 (3,166 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
No Door Vent In A DW

combo52's profile picture

Would only likely help the the controls, door vents in many DWs allowed moisture to get into the control panel area.


Post# 836563 , Reply# 35   8/14/2015 at 05:01 (3,149 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
my mom's appliances

My mom's appliances are all have electronics with no problems. My mom's lg washer and matching dryer work flawlessly. The rest of her appliances do too.


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