Thread Number: 46430
New KitchenAid Dishwasher Model KUDS30FX
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Post# 677503   5/5/2013 at 18:39 (4,006 days old) by bravos4me ()        

Purchased this a few weeks ago. I know, everyone here will say I should have bought an old Hobart-built KA-whatever, but my wife wanted new, not vintage, and this replaced a 7 year-old similar machine (same wash system, motor, pump, etc.). Needed to replace because someone in my house accidentally fell on the open door and put it all out of whack so much so that it would not stay closed, etc. Enough said about that; my problem is with the new machine. The old one cleaned beautifully, dried beautifully, and we were 100% happy with it.

This new version has a stinky smell when it is finished washing. Sometimes even fishy or swampy smelling. Dishes dry well, but the walls and door of the tub (stainless, as was my old one) are sometimes damp. Yes, I've checked that the drain is attached to the underside of the cabinet before it goes into the garbage disposer, so I don't think it's a drain problem. There is virtually no water to speak of in the sump, etc. I called KitchenAid customer service who said to be patient, that the new smell will dissipate. They also suggested turning up the rinse aid dispenser to use a bit more, which should help with drying the tub. So far that seems to be helping. What really gets me is that there appears to be no venting of the machine. There is no vent inside the door (which my old machine, and any other's I've owned had). I checked the parts lists and some models don't have them and some do. Of course, the people at KA said the machine does, indeed, vent, but I'm not so sure about that. Some of the higher end machines (which use the European filter system; my wife wanted no part of that) seem to have a vent, and some even have a fan-assisted vent.

Any thought from any of you our there?





Post# 677571 , Reply# 1   5/5/2013 at 23:18 (4,005 days old) by squeenjj ()        

I've seen some models like that that has the vent on the side of the door. Usually on the left side. Doesn't seem smart as that steam is going directly onto your wooden cabinets.

Post# 677577 , Reply# 2   5/5/2013 at 23:41 (4,005 days old) by retropia ()        

I'd suggest trying Cascade Institutional detergent; it has both bleach and phosphates in it. If you have a GFS near you, you can purchase it there.

Also, be sure to always use at least some detergent in the pre-wash cup. Modern dishwashers use very little water. Detergent in the pre-wash can help keep grease and soil suspended in the first cycle as it is flushed out, so it doesn't build up over time.


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Post# 677645 , Reply# 3   5/6/2013 at 10:32 (4,005 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
I just bought a new K/A a month ago

iheartmaytag's profile picture
On some models there is not inside vent, and the outside vent is as mentioned on the left side of the door.

This vent on the left side is not a steam outlet, but a cool air inlet. The way this drying system is supposed to work, if I understand correctly. During the dry portion of the cycle the cooler outside air is drawn through the open vent to cool the tub, where the steam will condense and drain into the sump.

This is why the inside of the machine is rather damp after a cycle has completed. I have only used the heated dry once, and opt for the no heat, but I use Finish/Jet Dry and have had no complaints about the dishes being wet. I do use the sani-rinse which allows the dishes to "flash dry" very quickly if you pop the door after the end of cycle beep. But I have left the dishes in the machine all night and they were perfectly dry by morning with no intervention.

As for the smell, it will go away in a few weeks of use. It's just the new smell. I really had a kitchen full of new smell, because I had a new range delivered the same day as I got the K/A DW.


Post# 677653 , Reply# 4   5/6/2013 at 11:09 (4,005 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
This vent on the left side is not a steam outlet, but a cool air inlet. The way this drying system is supposed to work, if I understand correctly. During the dry portion of the cycle the cooler outside air is drawn through the open vent to cool the tub, where the steam will condense and drain into the sump.
A tech bulletin I've seen advises that some models have a vent exit at bottom of the door toward the floor.


Post# 677680 , Reply# 5   5/6/2013 at 14:28 (4,005 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Which one is it? SearsPartsDirect list 27 model numbers for KUDS30FX___. It certainly has a vent somewhere to release excess pressure during the heated wash and rinse. This vent might, however, have noting to do with drying. So, what's the full model number?

Post# 677687 , Reply# 6   5/6/2013 at 14:58 (4,005 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
Model Number

iheartmaytag's profile picture
Is dependent on the cabinet finish. WH--White SS-Stainless Steal BL--Black. The rest of model is same.



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Post# 677697 , Reply# 7   5/6/2013 at 15:32 (4,005 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
There's an engineering change digit/number at end of the model that can be significant for parts & design.  Said revision number is referenced only on the model tag on the appliance, not in product sales info on KA's site.


Post# 677829 , Reply# 8   5/7/2013 at 05:35 (4,004 days old) by bravos4me ()        
Yes, there is a side vent on the door...

but it doesn't seem to be connected to anything; there is no vent on the inside of the door to let the steam out.

Model ## is KUDS30FXSS8 DADoES (and logixx). the SS is for Stainless Steel, but the 8 does seem to indicate some different parts. I did look at this particular one on searspartdirect and it seems to confirm my feeling that there is no vent to the outside.

For what it's worth, the smell seems to be getting a little better. I'll report back in another week or so, hopefully to let you all know that it is gone.

Thanks, all, for your interest.


Post# 677884 , Reply# 9   5/7/2013 at 09:17 (4,004 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Compare KUDS30FXSS revisions 0, 1, 2, and 3 to revisions 4 and higher.

0, 1, 2, and 3 have a round vent port (#7) at the top interior of the door with a venting mechanism (#5) inside the door.

30FX does not have the ProDry™ feature, which involves a drying fan and a duct that connects to the vent mechanism and leads down to bottom edge of the door.

The venting mechanism (for non-ProDry™ models, early revisions) has a flap that closes (via wax motor) during operation, and remains closed for 6 hrs after the cycle ends.

The vent flap opens if the door is opened during the 6-hr period, and does not reclose.  This can conceivably cause moisture to release from the side-vent on edge of the door.


Post# 677885 , Reply# 10   5/7/2013 at 09:17 (4,004 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
KUDS30FXSS4 and higher do not have the venting port and mechanism.


Post# 677989 , Reply# 11   5/7/2013 at 16:51 (4,004 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Looking at the exploded views, it seems there is no sound insulation on the back of the tub. The dishwasher likely uses this surface for condensation drying. Also, there is a small vent with a flap where the water enters the tub to release excess pressure during the hot wash/rinse cycle.

Post# 677999 , Reply# 12   5/7/2013 at 17:55 (4,004 days old) by bravos4me ()        
so why do they...

...make these changes in design? I've read somewhere that people were complaining about the vent on the side of the door causing too much condensation on the cabinets, resulting in damage to them. I put waterproof foil tape there, as suggested in the installation instructions, to help avoid any such damage. Looks like they may have tried to solve the problem with this redesign.

DADoES, thanks for posting the diagrams; it got people to see the issue better.

logixx, I've heard of condensation drying (Bosch and other European designs, perhaps?), but what exactly is it? I think it was one of the reasons we avoided a Bosch (besides the fact that the racks are so much smaller, which my wife just couldn't get beyond; top rack measured 3 inches shorter front to back). Have read a lot on line about Bosch machines stinking; maybe related to condensation drying?

Thanks to all for your input.


Post# 678013 , Reply# 13   5/7/2013 at 19:07 (4,004 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
With condensation drying, the moisture (steam) from the final rinse condenses on the stainless steel tub. As the tub doesn't have heavy heat insulation all around it, some area of it cools off rather quickly once the final rinse has stopped, thus creating this cooler area for the steam to condense. Depending on the manufacturer, some dishwashers will have fans to speed cooling the tub from the outside (Miele) or a pocket filled with cold water that is attached to the tub (Bosch in Europe).

This is my Bosch. You can see how the cold water behind the tub helped pull the moisture from the air. The rest of the tub is very hot after the drying cycle.


Post# 678033 , Reply# 14   5/7/2013 at 20:12 (4,004 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        

iheartmaytag's profile picture
BTW
Brovos4me. We both made a good selection with this Kitchenaid. Top rated.


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