Thread Number: 47306
Our little semi-scientific towel test... part deux! |
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Post# 687024   7/2/2013 at 23:43 (3,947 days old) by revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)   |   | |
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Yes ladies & gentlemen, you've waited patiently for 5 months and I'm here to tell you now, your wait is OVER! It's finally time to revisit our little towel test and change things around a little. So I again present to you the "1955 Frigidaire vs. 2006 Frigidaire towel challenge.... part deux"! Here is the link to the original thread so you can reacquaint yourselves with "part une". www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/T... |
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Post# 687025 , Reply# 1   7/2/2013 at 23:49 (3,947 days old) by revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)   |   | |
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This time Rich (Golittlesport) and I decided to take the "washer" out of the equation by washing all 8 towels in the 2006 FL, as there is NO way the Unimatic could swallow all 8 of these towels at one time. Here it is loaded and ready to start. Regular cycle, hot water, normal soil, extra rinse and extended 1000 RPM spin (54 minutes). We then went to dinner. |
Post# 687026 , Reply# 2   7/2/2013 at 23:51 (3,947 days old) by revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)   |   | |
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Post# 687027 , Reply# 3   7/2/2013 at 23:53 (3,947 days old) by revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)   |   | |
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Post# 687028 , Reply# 4   7/2/2013 at 23:55 (3,947 days old) by revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)   |   | |
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The other 4 towels go into the '55 Filtrator and it too is set for the same 60 minutes. This post was last edited 07/03/2013 at 01:05 |
Post# 687029 , Reply# 5   7/2/2013 at 23:57 (3,947 days old) by revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)   |   | |
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Post# 687030 , Reply# 6   7/3/2013 at 00:00 (3,947 days old) by revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)   |   | |
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Post# 687031 , Reply# 7   7/3/2013 at 00:04 (3,947 days old) by revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)   |   | |
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Post# 687032 , Reply# 8   7/3/2013 at 00:05 (3,947 days old) by revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)   |   | |
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Post# 687034 , Reply# 9   7/3/2013 at 00:12 (3,947 days old) by revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)   |   | |
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So there you have it folks, we removed the variable of washing in different washers by washing all 8 towels in one load in one machine.
Condensing dryers are the way to go for fluffier towels. Oh, BTW I also did the "touch test" rubbing my hand on each stack of towels.... and the stack dried in the 1955 Frigidaire Filtrator dryer did feel softer!
Rich also wanted to demonstrate just how much water was removed from the towels, even after a 1000 rpm spin. He poured the water from the Filtrators drain pan (after this load of course) into the measuring cup. Just over 1 cup! Very cool!
I hope you enjoyed both part une and part deux of our little towel test!
Kevin |
Post# 687039 , Reply# 10   7/3/2013 at 00:31 (3,947 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA)   |   | |
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Expect a call from Consumer's Reports really soon! LOL!
Actually, it's really neat to see the difference in the fluffiness between the two dryers. I'd still like to learn more about why the difference. I'd always been taught that gas dryers produce softer clothes due to the moist heat vs. a dry electric heat. Interesting. RCD |
Post# 687041 , Reply# 11   7/3/2013 at 00:47 (3,947 days old) by alr2903 (TN)   |   | |
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Kevin and Rich, I really enjoy the "in home" testing you share with us. Now I will be wishing for "Filtrator towels" again. Arthur |
Post# 687043 , Reply# 13   7/3/2013 at 00:54 (3,947 days old) by Revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)   |   | |
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Personally I think it's due to the evaporation process in the filtrator, being that it's a condenser dryer. Andy, as this dryer is not vented, everything is dried in the steam as the moisture evaporates from the clothing, I'm pretty sure this is why towels are more fluffy when dried in this dryer. If you open the door and remove a towel midway through the drying process, it will be extremely hot and literally steaming. If anyone else would like to explain further, please do. Kevin |
Post# 687056 , Reply# 14   7/3/2013 at 06:09 (3,947 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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Post# 687064 , Reply# 15   7/3/2013 at 07:19 (3,947 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)   |   | |
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Interesting test and nice pair of laundry equipment you got :)
I think Kevin's theory is right. When, in the midle of the cycle, you open a condenser dryer in which the internal circuit is closed a stream of steam comes out of the machine but also from every single garment. The steam makes everything much more soft and fluffy than just hot air blown through the laundy. That's my opinion :) Ingemar |
Post# 687073 , Reply# 16   7/3/2013 at 08:40 (3,947 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 687075 , Reply# 17   7/3/2013 at 08:53 (3,947 days old) by SEL8207 (naples, florida 34117)   |   | |
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I don't understand exactly; there is a dehumidifier inside the filtrator that removes the water?; if so why would they be steaming. Want to learn more about this method and there 's no mechanical esplanation of how it works; curious les. |
Post# 687077 , Reply# 18   7/3/2013 at 09:12 (3,947 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)   |   | |
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is there is a dehumidifier inside the filtrator that removes the water
Yes Les, it's a similar process without using a compressor... Great tests guys, I love our Filtrator because how wonderfully soft the clothes come out. At some point once the towels are dirty again you guys might want to redo the test now using the Unimatic as the washer (do two loads if necessary) to see if there is any difference in height. |
Post# 687079 , Reply# 19   7/3/2013 at 09:21 (3,947 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)   |   | |
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I think the dehumidifier does not condens instantaneously all the steam, but part of the moisty air goes back in the drum. So in the beginning of the cycle when the laundy is still very wet more steam is produced than condensed. That's why the laundry is steaming.
Than gradually less and less moist comes out of the laundry and more easily is for the dehumidifier to condens it into water. |
Post# 687080 , Reply# 20   7/3/2013 at 09:34 (3,947 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)   |   | |
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Post# 687081 , Reply# 21   7/3/2013 at 09:36 (3,947 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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Post# 687084 , Reply# 22   7/3/2013 at 09:48 (3,947 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Ingemar,
Your illustration shows how the newer 27" (1961-67) Frigidaire Filtrator dryers work. The pre-1961 30" models like the 1955 Kevin used in his test are similar in concept but they have perforated drums, no fan-forced airflow through the clothes and no lint filter (lint collects at the top of the condenser). Martin, Early Filtrator dryers have tiny vent holes at the top of their insulated cabinets as shown in the 1958 illustration in Robert's post. Newer ones recirculate air with a fan through the condenser. |
Post# 687085 , Reply# 23   7/3/2013 at 09:49 (3,947 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)   |   | |
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"I always thought a condenser dryer recirculated its own air over and over.... "
If you have in mind a European condenser dryer than the response is "yes". But as I had the chance to see it now, that's not the case for the Filtrator, where the air is not always the same over and over again. Thanks Unimatic for the picture. |
Post# 687087 , Reply# 25   7/3/2013 at 09:55 (3,947 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)   |   | |
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Post# 687089 , Reply# 26   7/3/2013 at 10:00 (3,947 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 687090 , Reply# 27   7/3/2013 at 10:08 (3,947 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 687092 , Reply# 28   7/3/2013 at 10:16 (3,947 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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Post# 687096 , Reply# 29   7/3/2013 at 10:29 (3,947 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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When I got my '65 Filtrator dryer from John, I was curious about the germicidal ozone lamp that worked with the drum light off and that didn't work with the drum light on.
Ozone lamps usually need to have the drum light to be on at the same time as the drum light acts as a ballast for the germ lamp. In the newer Filtrator dryers, there's a door heater and they used this heater as a ballast instead of the drum light. So the ozone light doesn't come on when you open the door and the drum light doesn't stay on when the dryer is operating. |
Post# 687097 , Reply# 30   7/3/2013 at 10:33 (3,947 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)   |   | |
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In vintage condensing dryers its all about heat, and lots of it. The high wattage heater raises the temperature of the recirculating air inside the machine. This provides the energy to vaporize the water that is in the clothing. The moist recirculating air is then routed through an air-to-air heat exchanger. Since the room temperature is well below the dew point of the hot moist air in the closed system, the water vapor condenses for collection in the heat exchanger. The waste heat is rejected into the room air, much of which is recovered from the latent heat of evaporation of the condensed water. For efficiency sake its probably best not to run a condenser dryer in an air conditioned space in the Summer!
A refrigeration system could be used to lower the temperature of the condensing heat exchanger. This would allow the process to take place at a reduced temperature, although there still needs to be some heating to get the water to evaporate in the first place. I believe that the European heat-pump dryers use the waste heat from the refrigeration system to aid the evaporation. A cooler condensing surface will lower the dew point temperature of the closed system air aiding evaporation at the lower tempertures. Of course of interest in this thread is that the theory of the steamy hot environment of a condenser dryer aids in fluffing the towels. A reduced temperature refrigerated condenser dryer may not have this effect, efficiency be dammed! |
Post# 687165 , Reply# 32   7/3/2013 at 18:36 (3,947 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 687193 , Reply# 33   7/3/2013 at 23:01 (3,946 days old) by peteski50 (New York)   |   | |
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Post# 687210 , Reply# 34   7/4/2013 at 02:19 (3,946 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 687413 , Reply# 35   7/5/2013 at 07:21 (3,945 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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I'll post the Bendix method. Its more similar to Ingemar's machine but has no filter for lint. The Bendix is a sealed system that recirculates the same heated air over and over. It also has the heated air make direct contact with the cool water stream to cause condensation. All the moist air and lint is then pumped down the drain.
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Post# 687428 , Reply# 36   7/5/2013 at 09:00 (3,945 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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A question about Filtrator dryers: Do you notice less wrinkling of shirts/pants with the Filtrator as compared to a standard vented dryer without steam-assist? I'd think the steam in the Filtrator's drum would mimic the environment created by new dryers that have steam-assist.
Have those of you who use both condenser and standard vented dryers in your laundry set-ups noticed a difference in wrinkling? |
Post# 687496 , Reply# 37   7/5/2013 at 17:26 (3,945 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
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My Bosch dryer (which runs at 167F until the load reaches Damp Dry - then it shuts one heater off) will wrinkle clothes just fine. Even with partial loads. Here's a de-wrinkle video I made. This is with office shirts that were still damp when removed. Even if they were dry, the wrinkes wouldn't have fully disappeared - they'd just be a little "softer". I think CR comes to the same conclusion that steam dryers remove odors but not so much wrinkles. CLICK HERE TO GO TO logixx's LINK |
Post# 687498 , Reply# 38   7/5/2013 at 17:32 (3,945 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
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I have read in Europe they are using some heat pump dryers which I guess are a similar concept!
Yes, they just run at lower temps - round about 113F. CLICK HERE TO GO TO logixx's LINK |
Post# 687512 , Reply# 39   7/5/2013 at 18:58 (3,945 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)   |   | |
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1)"This was a really great test. I wish they made these dryers today. I have read in Europe they are using some heat pump dryers which I guess are a similar concept!!
2) Actually the heat pump is just meant to heat the air to dry (they just do not use discard heat, they rather still use it and create it on purpose ton dry clothes, rather some uses discard cold for the condenser), is not all about room temp and refrigeration, they would take sooooo long if so (they're already long to dry, even ones running with fully cold activated condensers) the heat pump cold side activated condenser iprovides less time...they take anyway so much to get the job done compared to vented ones ...some commercial laundries over here and also in USA adopted this heat pump heating and cooling system for space and locations where venting is not possible.
This post was last edited 07/05/2013 at 19:16 |
Post# 687517 , Reply# 41   7/5/2013 at 19:38 (3,945 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)   |   | |
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I didn't understand the speech between Yogi and Ingemar....so let me understand, european condenser dryer re-use the same air over and over...that's a fact we fully know...but from the pics it shows the filtrator just discard the condensed air outside and start with new dry air...this is what I understand from the pic! Also in your pic Ingemar is so! looks a dryer that discard out the air after it passed through condenser!!! This is not how European dryer works! At least all the ones I've seen and used here! If so..... So why all these people saying about the steamy athmosphere? (Thing that for my personal experience never brought my laundry to be fluffier or better). |
Post# 687573 , Reply# 42   7/6/2013 at 06:02 (3,944 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)   |   | |
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"Also in your pic Ingemar is so! "
Hi, I have to say "no". The picture I've posted is from a typical European condenser dryer. If you look better you will see that the circuit is closed. You can tell from the red/ orange arrows, that goes round and round and not out of the circuit. The blue arrow is the airflow of cool air coming from the room atmosphere forced by the fun to keep cool the condenser. The two ducts are sealed. The damp air goes through that part of the condenser wich is coverd with the grey plastic. The cool air from the atmosphere goes through the condenser from the side. |
Post# 687578 , Reply# 43   7/6/2013 at 08:04 (3,944 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)   |   | |
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Oh Okay Ingemar, thanks... I could understand differently at first glancen from the pic. Oh BTW now that I have the opportunity even if does not matter with the topic now...are you no longer interested about italian detergents for your collection? I didn't hear from you anymore. This post was last edited 07/06/2013 at 09:06 |
Post# 687580 , Reply# 44   7/6/2013 at 09:05 (3,944 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)   |   | |
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Tom you're pretty right about saying that, of course they act like a steam chamber to steam wrinkles when you put dry wrinkled items along with few wet ones. This post was last edited 07/06/2013 at 09:28 |
Post# 687622 , Reply# 45   7/6/2013 at 14:19 (3,944 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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I'm using a Miele condenser dryer for 16 years now and never had such a smell experience. And my dryer is perhaps ten minutes slower than my AEG vented dryer. You must have used a pretty bad condenser dryer then.
The only issue I have is that my laundry comes out a bit more wrinkeled out of my Miele condenser dryer than out of the AEG vented one. Perhaps the Miele uses a somewhat lower temperature, at the end the clotes are not as warm as they are from the AEG. |
Post# 687623 , Reply# 46   7/6/2013 at 14:26 (3,944 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Here's a drawing of the innards of an Asko dryer. It shows how a condenser dryer works. The red air flow is a recirculating one in a closed circuit. It heats up the laundry and is cooled off again in the condenser, where the damp from the laundry is condensed. The condenser is cooled by a separate air stream (blue) that is taken in from the room where the dryer is.
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Post# 687635 , Reply# 47   7/6/2013 at 16:19 (3,944 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)   |   | |
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I used Bosch, Electrolux (AEG) and an older Miele, the one I was given was a Siltal they all worked the same way......actually the air intakes to cool the condenser were placed in the front if I remember right the right one sucked the air and left one was the out-take. I always made sure the condenser was clean and I used to shower it every 3-4 loads...they always took forever and if in those situations I could have hanged outside I would have done it (vacation apartments in France and Switzerland, no clotheslines allowed), they always took up to 2 hours vs. the average 40-60 minutes of european vented dryers always for full 7kg loads I used in my life, american electric ones are way more faster than europeans also. Anyway This post was last edited 07/06/2013 at 16:34 |
Post# 687637 , Reply# 48   7/6/2013 at 16:32 (3,944 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 687646 , Reply# 49   7/6/2013 at 17:40 (3,944 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 687648 , Reply# 50   7/6/2013 at 17:42 (3,944 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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The newer style Filtrator and drain pan from my 1965 dryer.
This post was last edited 07/06/2013 at 22:00 |
Post# 687649 , Reply# 51   7/6/2013 at 17:43 (3,944 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 687650 , Reply# 52   7/6/2013 at 17:46 (3,944 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 687938 , Reply# 53   7/8/2013 at 10:29 (3,942 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)   |   | |
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