Thread Number: 48018
Miele G2150 Diamante Dishwasher
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Post# 696361   8/14/2013 at 02:20 (3,901 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

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I had been loyal to my In-Sink-Erator Classic Supreme dishwasher, a KA 22 series clone, from the first day I installed it and gave the Thundering Thermador a swift kick all the way up to Oakland back in January of 2011.

 

Little did I know that on a run to the local ReStore just for kicks last week I'd find a beautiful TOL Miele Diamante in great shape complete with owner's manual.  It was a new arrival.  It was tempting.  But it seemed a little pricey so I walked away.

 

Over the next couple of hours, recurring thoughts of the machine were making me anxious.  It would match the other appliances in our kitchen so much better than the ISE.  After consultation with one of our well-respected resident experts here who, as it happened, was equally excited, the decision was made.  A quick run back to the ReStore and it was mine for a fraction of what it cost new.

 

Not a moment was wasted after the machine arrived at its new home.  The ISE was summarily extracted and replaced by the Diamante.  I wanted to be sure the machine had no problems within the time frame the ReStore's return policy allows.

 

It performed silently as it completed a test cycle.  No issues or leaks.  It was a keeper.  Dave was thrilled with it, even though he doesn't do the dishes.  He complained every time the ISE would be running while he was trying to watch TV in the breakfast room.  He loves the Diamante.

 

I've processed a few loads through it since, and I'm smitten if not 100% hooked.  Say what you will about vintage KitchenAids, but this 5-year old (at most) machine has proven it can out-clean them all.  I'm a convert, although some may consider me a traitor.  The last two loads contained crusty un-rinsed items that I know from experience the ISE would not have gotten clean.  Even a pie dish containing crusty areas with cement-like adhesion that wouldn't budge with a metal utensil came out clean.  The ISE would have been no match for such a challenge.

 

Take a look at this sleek European beauty:




This post was last edited 08/14/2013 at 02:48



Post# 696362 , Reply# 1   8/14/2013 at 02:21 (3,901 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

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The panel


Post# 696363 , Reply# 2   8/14/2013 at 02:23 (3,901 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

$#1


Post# 696364 , Reply# 3   8/14/2013 at 02:24 (3,901 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

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$#2


Post# 696365 , Reply# 4   8/14/2013 at 02:26 (3,901 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

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$#3

 

The top cutlery rack lifts out so is as convenient as a removable basket.


Post# 696366 , Reply# 5   8/14/2013 at 02:28 (3,901 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

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The rear wall could double as a shaving mirror.  It even reflects the stove across the room.


Post# 696369 , Reply# 6   8/14/2013 at 02:40 (3,901 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
Vintage DW Fans, Relax

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The ISE is safely stored away in the shop.

 

I do not expect the Miele to provide 20 years of trouble-free performance like a classic Hobart designed machine can, so the ISE will be waiting in the wings.

 

Does a Miele have its quirks?  Indeed.  Does it require some behavior modification with loading?  For sure.  I can't BobLoad this thing like I could a vintage machine, there are no china guards, and the user must push the on/off button after the cycle has ended, which is a new practice to me.

 

I liken this change to that of switching from a top-load washer to a front-load.  A front-loader requires more care and will last longer with regular maintenance, just like a fine car.  It's no different with classic vs. contemporary dishwashers.

 

The bottom line is this:  The Miele makes my glasses sparkle and handles tough challenges with ease, it uses the same hard water (but much less of it) that the ISE did, and doesn't require running the sink faucet to get the water hot first.  Those are all reasons enough for me to hope this machine will last me a while.




This post was last edited 08/14/2013 at 02:56
Post# 696373 , Reply# 7   8/14/2013 at 03:12 (3,901 days old) by mieleforever (SOUTH AFRICA)        
That is a keeper!

Although I don't own a Miele DW, I do own a Miele washer and Dryer, and truth be told they work flawlessly each and every load.

The glass rack can even be adjusted with the one end higher than the other, as I was shown in a Miele Boutique. They really are superbly designed machines that just goes quietly about doing their business, no fanfare, no drama, no bling, just very high quality, and rather conservative in their designs, however it will still look good after 10 years. Its like comparing Maria Callas with Lady Gaga (the latter being a Korean counterpart)!!

I truly hope and believe you will have years of good service out of this machine. When our Siemens kicks the bucket a Miele it will be.

Regards





Post# 696410 , Reply# 8   8/14/2013 at 08:13 (3,901 days old) by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada)        

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Wow, what a great find! Why would anyone get rid of it? How long does a normal cycle take?

Gary


Post# 696418 , Reply# 9   8/14/2013 at 08:49 (3,901 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
WORD!

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I find that Miele makes a much better dishwasher than a washing machine. I easily disconnected the washer and dryer but could never give up my dishwasher. Their dishwashers are spot on! And while they do take up to 3 hours to complete the task, they are hush quiet about it and complete to perfection.

Malcolm


Post# 696423 , Reply# 10   8/14/2013 at 09:25 (3,901 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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That thing is too beautiful inside and out.....have to keep my eye out for one in the future...

and as always, its when your not looking is when something pops up!


Post# 696459 , Reply# 11   8/14/2013 at 13:10 (3,901 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
Cycle Time

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If I'm not mistaken, it can vary depending on soil level and/or water heating, but don't quote me on that.  I haven't officially timed it yet, but last night's load seemed to come in at right around two hours.

 

As for why anyone would get rid of it, I can only speculate.  We're talking Silicon Valley here, the wealthiest county in the U.S., and people have money to burn on everything from Teslas to trophy homes.  Probably a house was purchased and the five year old kitchen was considered to be out of style, or the whole place was gutted down to the studs.


Post# 696461 , Reply# 12   8/14/2013 at 13:17 (3,901 days old) by aladude ()        

You got this at a RESTORE?!? I'm beyond jealous.

Post# 696518 , Reply# 13   8/14/2013 at 17:42 (3,901 days old) by washer111 ()        
Neat Find!

Its cool because its a Miele dishwasher, but whats even "more cool" is the fact your found it at a thrift-store that usually specialises in vintage stuff and assorted junk! You are one very lucky man :-)

 

As for the ISE Machine, I'm shocked that you would have trouble with its cleaning ability!?!? I'm assuming the inclusion of the "forever and ever" heated Pre-Wash then the rather cool Main-Wash is responsible for your disappointments (As I've never seen any complaint about Pre KD-19 machines here)? Or perhaps the lack of "Soak 'n' Scrub" cycle?

 

But it looks like a great find, and you are to be congratulated. At least though, I can say that I am at least beating *someone* with my Dish-drawer and the 60 minute Delicates cycle (cancelling at the drying phase).

 

Perhaps a shot or two of the ISE machine beforehand removal so we can get a feel for the difference in style?


Post# 696521 , Reply# 14   8/14/2013 at 18:07 (3,901 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
The ISE

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It's a 22 series clone, and would be most like a Patrician model if KA was still making them at that point.

 

This one has automatic water heating so there is no delay.  No Soak & Scrub either.  For a while it had been giving me trouble with spotting and rinse aid dispenser leakage (go figure).  As I stated above, the Miele is using the same hard water supply and delivering sparkling glassware.  I even reprogrammed the rinse aid dosage to dispense 2ml instead of the default 3ml and still got spotless results.

 

Here's a shot of the ISE:


Post# 696653 , Reply# 15   8/15/2013 at 13:27 (3,900 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

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Welcome time wonderful world of Miele dishwashers. My LaPerla has the same wash system and a water softener added as well. My lower rack is a tad different than yours is I do find that they do hold a ton of dishes. Your machine should also alternate between wash arms...middle arm first then the bottom and top arms. These machines perform well and Miele stands behind what they sell. Your most intensive cycle should be Pots and Pans. I know with mine the wash pump is at the max and one can hear the scouring taking place and it raises the wash temp to 170 F. Nothing survives that kind of scouring and heat. Just make sure that once a month to check on the filter array and clean it out if you have to. Mine has a reminder that will nag me until I do it. My dishwasher is coming up on 6 years old now and only one repair in that timeframe that Miele good willed the parts. Had they not a wash pump assembly was a whopping $670 and the feed tubes were $100 a piece...I would be looking at a new machine for that price. And not a Miele.
But anywho once you get used to the racking and I know some have issues with the silverware tray...it took me a good week to get used to it...I group the silverware according to type like spoons, forks, knives and granted it does take some time to sort it out I do save time when I unload it and put the in the drawer. Very rarely I find something not clean. Enjoy!


Post# 696830 , Reply# 16   8/16/2013 at 08:54 (3,899 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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Very nice find!

You mentioned not being able to BobLoad this machine like the ISE, is that primarily due to the sizing of the whole machine or the racking?

May have to start hitting the Restore again regularly, and hope for lightening strikes here. Always been curious about the Miele dishwashers.


Post# 696869 , Reply# 17   8/16/2013 at 13:51 (3,899 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
BobLoading

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I think the issue with BobLoading modern dishwashers is that their wash arms don't spew the same volume of water as vintage ones.  I stacked a medium sized dish on top of a smaller one in the lower rack, and it didn't come clean even though it was positioned in a way that, if it were in the ISE, it would have been hit with enough spray to emerge clean.

 

It seems careful placement is the key to success with BobLoading a modern machine that uses less water.  It will be a fun challenge trying to find the right configuration to effectively get all contents of a BobLoad clean in this machine.  I need to study the owner's guide more with regard to placement and loading techniques.  The rack configurations are literally foreign compared to what I had become accustomed to with the ISE.

 

On the flip side, since the Miele uses less water than the ISE, so I don't have to feel guilty about running it when it's not fully loaded.


Post# 696870 , Reply# 18   8/16/2013 at 13:57 (3,899 days old) by zipdang (Portland, OR)        
Congratulations!

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In time you'll figure out how to Bob Load that thing. They really can hold a ton. Just make sure the water protection device at the distal end of the inlet hose (where it attaches to the water source) is in a vertical position and not laying horizontal on the floor. They don't like that.

Post# 696873 , Reply# 19   8/16/2013 at 14:07 (3,899 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
Water Protection Device

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David, do you mean that big blocky thing? 

 

When you say vertical, would that be positioned so the thin edge is on the floor as opposed to the larger flatter side?

 

I've also been advised that there's no need for an air gap on the drain hose.


Post# 696875 , Reply# 20   8/16/2013 at 14:19 (3,899 days old) by zipdang (Portland, OR)        

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Yes, the blocky device. It shouldn't lay flat at all. Its long axis should be vertical with one hose connection on the top and the other on the bottom. Mine was originally installed with the water protection device on the floor and it conked out after 2 years. The valves inside fault out, and while the hose can replaced without the need for a service tech it's still a $200+ part.

Think of it this way: the protection device should be oriented like a book standing upright on a bookshelf versus laying flat on a table. I wish I had a photo of mine. I'll see if I can find one to help clarify.


Post# 696877 , Reply# 21   8/16/2013 at 14:29 (3,899 days old) by zipdang (Portland, OR)        

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This is what my friend Patrick (Pdub) found when we were trying to diagnose the problem when my machine's device stopped working. Hope it helps.

Post# 696878 , Reply# 22   8/16/2013 at 14:33 (3,899 days old) by zipdang (Portland, OR)        

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Let's try that again....

Post# 696879 , Reply# 23   8/16/2013 at 14:37 (3,899 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
OK Got It

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I'm pretty sure mine is just on the floor.  So should the dishwasher end of the hose be on top and the inlet end on the bottom?


Post# 696884 , Reply# 24   8/16/2013 at 15:02 (3,899 days old) by zipdang (Portland, OR)        

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I'm pretty certain mine is oriented with the water supply end on the top and the hose to the dishwasher connected to the bottom. We hung a small hook in the cabinet to hang it from which seems to be working quite well.

Post# 696907 , Reply# 25   8/16/2013 at 17:18 (3,899 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

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I took a look and my hose presents a problem.  The protection assembly is right at the end of the hose by the connector for the supply.  I'll have to install an elbow to position it vertically.  As it sits now, there's a double violation.  It's horizontal and the larger flat side is in the same plane as the floor.

 

This isn't a huge deal to correct.  One of the fittings I had to use in order to adapt to the garden hose connector type appears to have a defect that no amount of teflon tape will fix, creating a very slow drip.  I was planning to tend to that issue anyway.

 

I guess now it's just verifying whether it matters which direction to aim the elbow.


Post# 696955 , Reply# 26   8/16/2013 at 19:53 (3,898 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
It Has Been Reconfigured

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I took a look in the owner's manual and in the back there's a warning about cutting the inlet line since it has electrical components running through it.  The drawing showed the box assembly with the connector at the top, so that's how I worked it. 

 

As you can see, adapters were necessary for the initial connection because the original supply line from some 40 years ago used a flare fitting.  It seemed prudent not to mess with the elbow coming out of the supply valve.  The leak was happening between the two brass fittings that are now separated by the galvanized street elbow.  I used galvanized because I had a couple of non-Chinese ones around and decided to save myself a trip to Orchard Supply.

 

In the picture below, you can see that there's still a small leak where the male end of the street ell is fitted into the brass flare- to-MIP adapter, but it's barely a drop every 30 minutes compared to at least a couple of drops per minute before.  Using the galvanized fitting helped quite a bit.  That brass adapter is clearly suspect, but I think the leak is so slow that it will "take up" fairly quickly.  I'll keep an eye on it.


Post# 696956 , Reply# 27   8/16/2013 at 19:58 (3,898 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Been looking at some installation instructions and it doesn't state anything as to how the WPS housing is to be installed. Just warns against cutting into the hose (as it contains electrical components) or crushing the hoses when pushing the unit into place.

As far as Mike's comment on water pressure goes: am not sure but at least in Germany, only the top four out of 15 models have variable spray pressure. Interestingly though, every model has the sensor wash, which only comes on the LaPerla in the US. Wonder why that is?

Do a Google search on "Miele dishwasher BobLoad" to get some ideas - most pictures are from here, actually!

Alex


Post# 697336 , Reply# 28   8/18/2013 at 20:00 (3,896 days old) by zipdang (Portland, OR)        

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Ralph the way you have your water protection device installed looks correct. Nice job. Patrick figured out why the valves might fail if they were laid down horizontal but I can't remember what the logic was.

Do you know your local water hardness? The salt indicator might come on if it detects the hardness is at or above 4ppm...I think. Our hardness here is only 0.5-1.0ppm so the built-in water softener doesn't require salt. If you do have soft water watch the dosing on rinse aid. I've noticed anything over a setting of 2 will give a frothy final rinse. Right now it's set at 1 and things seem to be okay using Finish Jet Dry. Have also had the best luck using Ecover tablets. Maybe it's because they're formulated in Europe for European machines, I dunno, but they work fantastic in my Miele. Stainless steel pots and pans come out shinier than anything else can get them, no glass etching, plastics aren't chalky.

My machine has the information display including the timer, so if you are curious as to how long any of the cycles *should* take let me know and I can check them.


Post# 697345 , Reply# 29   8/18/2013 at 20:39 (3,896 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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A beautiful Miele, inside and out! I've grown to love the flatware/utensil upper rack on my LG. And super-quiet dishwashers so nice, especially given the longer cycle times. Congratulations!

Post# 697353 , Reply# 30   8/18/2013 at 21:45 (3,896 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

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David, thanks for the tips.  My machine doesn't have water softening capability but so far it hasn't proved to be an issue.  I know the water here is fairly hard, but the Miele seems to take it in stride.

 

I'm currently using my stock of phosphated Cascade along with clear Cascade rinse agent.  I bumped the dosage down to 2ml because I was catching a whiff of rinse aid after running a cycle.  Glassware is still sparkling, so I might give 1ml a shot and see how it does.  The true test will come after I run out of phosphated detergent.

 

Meanwhile, the Diamante continues to impress.  It even made knives that had been used for peanut butter sparkle.  That has never happened before with any dishwasher I've owned.

 

We were puzzled by the "Rinse" light (not the rinse aid refill light) when the machine first ran and thought something could be wrong.  Since the washer completed its cycles and all dispensers were activated as per usual, I assumed this indicator light was normal during the wash phase and your photo seems to confirm it, but there is nothing specific about it in the owner's guide.


Post# 697362 , Reply# 31   8/18/2013 at 22:25 (3,896 days old) by zipdang (Portland, OR)        

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The "Rinse" light is a bit of a misnomer. It means rinse in the sense of a shower, as in when the machine is circulating sprays of water versus ceasing action for a drying phase.

Glad to hear all is well and that you're enjoying the machine. The Pots and Pans program has yet to disappoint me on anything I've thrown at it. The top/3rd tier tray becomes so essential that you wonder what you did without it. In one of the photos above of the lower rack it appears some of the tines are bent and out of alignment. When aligned don't be surprised by how closely the plate racks are spaced. Packs 'em in and still does a marvelous job.

European machines have an impressive capacity once you figure out their nuances. My mom had a Swedish Asko for years and could cram more into that thing than she can in her current modern (3 years old?) KitchenAid Superba.


Post# 697388 , Reply# 32   8/18/2013 at 23:46 (3,896 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
The Tines

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Thanks for clearing things up about the rinse light.  I had a feeling it meant exactly what you said it does.  I'm still getting used to the tines and what to load where, but I did straighten out most of them since taking the picture above.  They can use a little more tweaking but I need to spend more time with the owner's manual to learn a little more about loading strategies. 

 

I'm getting used to the third rack for utensils.  It's a better system than just fitting large ones like tongs and spatulas into the upper rack as is the case with most dishwashers.  Some are too tall to place in the traditional utensil basket and will end up blocking the upper rack from being pulled outward.  Miele solved that problem with the third tier.  I also like unloading the top tier.  With either system, you're spending extra time on the front or back end.  With a basket, you can drop things pretty much anywhere, but sorting through it when putting things away takes time.  With the third rack, "nesting" when loading is the rule rather than the exception, but it makes putting away clean items a snap.

 

The upper (middle) rack seems like a free-for-all.  So far I haven't been able to load it as tightly as on the ISE.

 

When I checked the guide, it appeared the pots & pans cycle omitted a portion of the wash cycle, which seemed odd.  I'll review that again as well.  So far I haven't had the need to use that cycle, but it's only a matter of tine.  Laughing

 


Post# 697422 , Reply# 33   8/19/2013 at 02:49 (3,896 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

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With mine the Pots and Pans cycle and the Heavy/Intensive cycles take a rinse away after the first Prewash. Thats because it adds more water to the other portions of the cycle to maintain the water pressure boost. It will still use 6 gallons regardless and everything comes out clean. Now the other thing is that I know with mine that every cycle will vary in time. A normal cycle will take about 2 hrs and 10 mins on average. I have seen times where it has been under 2 hours, but with mine it takes into account at how hot the water is coming into the dishwasher. One thing is thatif your water is already piping hot your cycle times will reduce.
The top rack you will find that it does hold alot of silverware and utensils but be aware of that top arm...it doesnt take much to stop it. What I do with spatulas and big long handled items is that they go into the middle rack and they wash beautifully. If I wash an all pots and pans load I will remove the top tray inserts and drop the upper rack to its lowest point then I can do lids in the upper rack along withe bowls and whatnot and that top arm scours like crazy.
In time you will figure out your racking and where to put items...it does take time and I know with mine its amazing how much it can hold.


Post# 697907 , Reply# 34   8/21/2013 at 14:52 (3,894 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
Detergent Dosage

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Right now, in addition to loading strategies my learning curve has come to include detergent dosage. 

 

Last night I chose the Pots & Pans cycle for the first time.  It worked beautifully on the target items and seemed to get the job done in less than 2.5 hours, but I noticed a definite clouding effect on glassware.  This isn't fancy stuff, just heavy everyday tumbler type glasses and the coffee carafe.  I've become so used to filling both cups on the ISE that I think maybe I'm using too much by doing the same thing with the Miele considering how much less water it uses per fill.  It's evident that the cups are proportionally smaller, so I presumed a full main wash cup wouldn't be an overdose.

 

I know the basic rule of thumb is to use less detergent if there's less soiling, but I'm wondering where to draw the line and if there's ever much need to fill both of the Miele's cups to capacity.  Any advice on how much to use would be appreciated.  I'm happy to conserve my remaining supply of phosphated Cascade by using less if I can get away with it.

 

This may be a trial & error process since the water supply is fairly hard, but I'm going to start using less with the next load, and may not bother with any detergent for the pre-wash.


Post# 697928 , Reply# 35   8/21/2013 at 17:04 (3,894 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Hi Ralph,

It could also be the temperature. On the Aussie ones the Pots and pans cycle gets up between 160degF and 170degF

If I put any glassware in with the pots and pans cycle, its only heavy glass tumblers or the such.

Anything thin walled seems to go permanently cloudy at those temps.

We have soft water however so I don't have experience with water hardness issues.

Cheers

Nathan


Post# 697935 , Reply# 36   8/21/2013 at 17:42 (3,894 days old) by aamassther (Hendersonville, NC )        

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I've found detergent needs to be dosed quite carefully in my La Perla II. I keep it to 20cc for a normal load and 30 cc for a pots and pans load, plus about 5cc in the prewash cup. Fill the cup is way too much soap. They use enough less water that less is better.
That's a great machine, btw. The silver tray is my favourite feature. So easy to put things away from.
HTH, Todd


Post# 697941 , Reply# 37   8/21/2013 at 18:52 (3,894 days old) by zipdang (Portland, OR)        
Detergent dosage

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With our very soft municipal water it only takes about 1 TBSP (or 20 mL at most) to clean a full load on the Normal program, or one detergent tablet. The only time I use detergent for the prewash is on the Pots & Pans program, and even then it only takes about 1/2-1 tsp to do the job.

The detergent dispenser cup should have little markings in it to indicate how full it is. Try starting with the lowest amount and increase from there until you have results that work for you. You should be able to get perfectly clean dishes without cloudy glassware.


Post# 697945 , Reply# 38   8/21/2013 at 19:08 (3,894 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

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Well for starters never load glassware into a load that you intend to use the Pots and Pans cycle...in a word the high temp and detergent will = etching and very bad etching at that. Thats the cloudiness you are seeing in your glassware. Remember this machine is a different animal and has no problem reaching target temps. It will heat water rather fast since it has the water heater inside the wash pump.
When I use the Pots and Pans cycle I use it just for that..pots and pans. If you have glassware involved then I would use the Normal cycle in your case. For mine I use the Heavy/Intensive cycle and add a Soak option to it.You could try the Sani Cycle and see how that does. I will have to look at the manual to see the max temps. Also the tech from Miele told me that the All in One pacs from Finish like the PowerBalls and Cascade Platinum are too much detergent for the machine. I have been using powder Somat and the new Proxi tabs with great results.


Post# 697949 , Reply# 39   8/21/2013 at 19:59 (3,893 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Finish Tabs

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I have been using the Finish tabs with excellent results. I set the machine to the tabs setting and it increases the rinsing and omits the rinse aid dispenser. Fantastic!

Malcolm


Post# 697954 , Reply# 40   8/21/2013 at 20:29 (3,893 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

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Thanks for all of the excellent input.  I'll be ratcheting back the dosage for sure.  No more in the pre-wash cup and only to the lowest mark for the main wash.  Yay!  My phosphated powder will last longer!  Or do phosphates even matter with this machine?

 

Lesson learned with regard to appropriate contents when using the pots & pans cycle.

 

I don't currently use tabs but if I eventually do, my machine has no "tabs" setting and instead the user guide advises to set the rinse aid dispenser to zero.  Easy enough.

 

Vintage is cool to look at, but at the end of the day it has to be about results.  It's been two weeks almost to the minute since this machine was installed, and I think I can safely say I'm already spoiled.


Post# 697977 , Reply# 41   8/21/2013 at 21:37 (3,893 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Yes, these machines do use less water but also keep in mind that there is still grease that needs to be washed off the dishes. To me, less water only means a more concentrated grease solution. I tried less detergent in my water-efficient Bosch and I ended up with drops of grease in the sump after the final rinse.

I get the best results with Quantum tabs. I might even put a few drops of liquid dishwashing detergent on the door for the prewash - zero suds and keeps the grease from gunking up the drain hose etc. while the machine washes.

Used to put fancy Rosenthal glasses in with pots and pans on the autoHeavy cycle (up to 167F) all the time and never had problems with etching. Cheap glasses would etch over the years, though.


Post# 697978 , Reply# 42   8/21/2013 at 21:52 (3,893 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

nmassman44's profile picture
I usually tell the dishwasher what kind of detergent it will be using and I was surprised that the tech told me that...so I posed the question...the why give the customer the option in choosing between powder, gel, 2n1 tabs, 3n1 tabs when its too much of a dosage for the machine? He didnt know what to say. I still use the PowerBalls and the all in one Pacs from Cascade. They work and work well. Phosphated detergents the dishwasher loves.

Post# 697981 , Reply# 43   8/21/2013 at 22:16 (3,893 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
Why the option?

logixx's profile picture

1. Marketing. Some manufacturer came up with the idea to sell a machine with a tab option because detergent tabs outsell powders. So it only made sense, in the consumer's mind, to have a dishwasher that is optimized for tablets.

 

2. The x-in-one option, on some dishwashers, will decrease the amount of water taken in for the interim rinse, thus more rinse aid (surfactants) from the detergent can be carried over into the final rinse and won't get washed away. The final rinse it heated to a higher temp to increase drying effectiveness and the drying cycle is prolonged.


Post# 697992 , Reply# 44   8/21/2013 at 23:24 (3,893 days old) by aamassther (Hendersonville, NC )        

aamassther's profile picture
I agree with nmassman. Mine loves phosphate powders best as well. I get perfect results on the most baked on stuff with Somat powder. Cascade complete phosphate free does fine on everyday loads. Surprisingly, the worst results with Quantum tabs. Which I liked best in the old Bosch.

Post# 698215 , Reply# 45   8/22/2013 at 17:34 (3,893 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

nmassman44's profile picture
Now I know that you said that the machine cant be "Bobloaded" here are a few pics of mine from tonight. I do realize that my lower rack is different from yours but you get the idea. I used Somat powder detergent and did not rinse at all...as you can tell. I will post pics of after the cycle is finished.

Post# 698216 , Reply# 46   8/22/2013 at 17:35 (3,893 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

nmassman44's profile picture
upper rack

Post# 698217 , Reply# 47   8/22/2013 at 17:35 (3,893 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

nmassman44's profile picture
top rack...now with this rack I group the silverware as you can see ..its a bit of work sorting but it makes for easy unloading and into the drawer easier when they are clean. My silverware has chunky handles and dont fit handles in and heads out. I load heads in...I hope that makes sense as thats the only way to explain it.

Post# 698218 , Reply# 48   8/22/2013 at 17:37 (3,893 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

nmassman44's profile picture
The cycle of choice is Normal. Now on this display it will show me estimated cycle time in this case 2 hrs and 2 mins. After the first intake of water the dishwasher will sense how hot the water is and how big the load is by how much water it takes to wet the load. It will add water to keep the pump from cavitating. I went into the cycle paramaters and used the more water setting which adds another 16 oz of water per fill. So that said after the first prewash the sensor system will either add time or reduce it. I have seen some Normal cycles take 2 hrs and 30 mins long to less than 1 hour and 35 mins at the least.



This post was last edited 08/22/2013 at 17:52
Post# 698220 , Reply# 49   8/22/2013 at 17:38 (3,893 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

nmassman44's profile picture
My gorgeous beauty. This dishwasher has been relatively easy to keep the outside clean. The panel is flat glass and no buttons to get in the way of cleaning the control. The stainless steel though is a bitch. One has to go with the grain and the upper control panel area show fingerprints very easily. But to me that is a non issue. It looks like it belongs in this spot and matches the countertop well.



This post was last edited 08/22/2013 at 17:55
Post# 698253 , Reply# 50   8/22/2013 at 19:29 (3,892 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Thanks Mike!  Your machine does look beautiful, and like it belongs there.

 

I noticed the configuration of the bottom rack is different on yours, turned 90 degrees from how mine loads.  I'll be getting the hang of maximizing contents as I go along.  So far I haven't followed the instructions about placement of spoons with handles toward the center.  Everything is loaded with handles outward.  I don't see what difference it could make unless I had a lot of silverware to wash and reversing the spoons helped with maximizing space.

 

I'm contemplating a fairly light load for tonight or tomorrow night.  On Saturday I'm planning to use a wok that's been hanging above the stove for a very long time and has a sticky coating of grease all over it.  I'll have to wash the wok by hand because it's not dishwasher safe, but the lid is equally sticky and I'm sending that through the Miele.  I don't think it calls for the pots & pans cycle but there's only one way to find out!


Post# 698574 , Reply# 51   8/24/2013 at 11:24 (3,891 days old) by Lightedcontrols ()        

That machine is a really great dishwasher. I've been selling several of those machines a week with absolutely no customer complaints at all. I wouldn't be surprised if you DID get 20 years or more of trouble free service out of it. Right now I would say it's the best on the market.

Post# 698577 , Reply# 52   8/24/2013 at 11:31 (3,891 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Mark, thanks for that vote of confidence.  I hope you're right!

 

I did the wok lid load on the normal cycle and the lid came out still sticky on top.  I'm a little afraid to use the pots & pans cycle until I figure out the current draw.  The one time I used it thus far, I noticed a sort of musty smell in the under-sink cabinet and it seemed warm in there as well.  I traced the heat and odor (again, a musty/dusty smell, not an electrical smell) to the small dedicated breaker box that controls the outlet for the dishwasher.  The box contains an old school glass-encased 20-amp fuse, which was fairly hot to the touch. 

 

If anyone can advise on where I might find technical data, I'd appreciate it.  Clearly the pots & pans cycle makes regular, if not uninterrupted use of the heating element and seems to be stressing out the electrical supply.


Post# 698664 , Reply# 53   8/24/2013 at 17:46 (3,891 days old) by zipdang (Portland, OR)        

zipdang's profile picture
Under "Specifications" in the installation guide for your model it says: "The dishwasher comes equipped with a 4 ft (1.2 m) power cord with a molded plug for connection to 120 V, 60 Hz, 15 A grounded receptacle."

Does that help with regard to power draw? With regards to utilities usage it also says:

Electric: 0.01 - 1.23 kWh
Water: 1.3 - 6.3 gal (5 - 24 l)

If you don't already have the manual you can get a PDF of it from Miele.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO zipdang's LINK


Post# 698698 , Reply# 54   8/24/2013 at 21:21 (3,890 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

nmassman44

We have the same model Dishwasher - G2830 and I found your remarks about the normal cycle interesting since mine works completely different in this cycle. I think it must be software versions. On my Dw the Normal cycle is a dumb cycle so the cycle I usually use is the sensor cycle. By that I mean that Normal will make absolutely no adjustments to the cycle at all unless there are differences in incoming water temperature and then it will do a hold until the water reaches temp. I tested this by washing 1 clean dinner plate. It washed this clean plate for 65 minutes so mine is not using the soil sensor in this cycle at all. When it got to the rinse I canceled the cycle. With the sensor cycle it will adjust the one pre rinse from 13 minutes down to 8 for small loads, the main wash time will vary between 18 minutes for light soil to up to 76 for heavy and it may do 3 rinses for heavy soil. Today my total cycle time was 1 hour 41 minutes. Also Normal on my machine will take more water than any other cycle except rinse/hold. I can tell this because of the length of the water intake time and I also checked the water level in the machine. Normal brings the water almost up to the edge of the door and after the fill there is no other attempt to adjust the amount of water. Other cycles have the water only covering the filter screen and the water is no where near the door, and it will add a bit of water or not for the first 3 minutes of each fill if needed.

The other thing with mine is that the cycle named(I think it is economy) uses a lower temperature than the rest but will do 3 rinses if the dishes are dirty..but the manual never mentions this at all.

I got my machine in June of 2006 so I think your Dw has a newer version of the software than mine. I Wish my normal worked like yours, so my usual cycles are Sensor or water save.

I have a water hardness between 8 and 14 Grains per gallon, but I use different detergents each week. This week I used Finish powder - good results - next week I am using Miele tabs(the older ones with phosphates), and the next week I will use Finish Quantum, and next I will use Cascade Paks. All of these do a good job so I rotate each week.

I have the detergent adjustment but just leave it at Normal since I always want it to dispense rinse aid. I didn't know there might be changes in the amount of rinse water taken in so perhaps I will try the tab setting to see what happens.

Liked your pictures of loads - yes Miele Dw can be bob loaded!

I don't think you can go wrong with any Miele DW. Some of their new washers sold in N/A maybe be another story though.


Post# 698701 , Reply# 55   8/24/2013 at 21:38 (3,890 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

rp2813

Great DW and I expect you will get many great years out of it. I've had mine for 7, cleans anything I throw at it and doesn't seem to matter what detergent I use.
Like others have mentioned I wouldn't put glasses in when you do a pots and pan load. My previous Miele Dw had the temperatures listed on the control panel and it stated that pots and pans was done at 170F, so I reckon that yours is using this same temp.

When I do pots and pans or other loads with high temps I first do a load of only glasses. I use the short wash and it works great for glasses and lasts about 25 minutes.

Have fun with your new machine!


Post# 698703 , Reply# 56   8/24/2013 at 21:47 (3,890 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

rp2813

One more thing....try the china crystal cycle on lightly soiled or small loads. It uses the soil sensor takes less time than normal and It works very well even if you are not washing china!


Post# 698727 , Reply# 57   8/25/2013 at 00:52 (3,890 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

nmassman44's profile picture
One thing with my dishwasher, I went into the "settings" where one can change the type of detergent etc, there is a setting for the sensor to turn it on or off. I have it turned on so its on every cycle, not just sensor cycle. I went into the "service mode" and went into Water Plus and have the More setting on. Jerrod you might want to see if you have that option for the sensor, it adjust every cycle and ensures proper washing. Mine also adjust at every water intake for the water softener. Our water runs about 10d to 11d in the summer and up to 13d in the winter. But not more than that.

Post# 698728 , Reply# 58   8/25/2013 at 01:10 (3,890 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

nmassman44's profile picture
One more thing before I forget is to make sure you go online to miele.com and register your machine. It saves time if you ever need service and they stand behind what they make. I am quite impressed by them and the level of service I got. The service charge was $180 and since my issue was fixed, the dishwasher has been flawless.

Post# 698741 , Reply# 59   8/25/2013 at 02:30 (3,890 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Thanks for the advice.  I'll take another look at the sequences for "short" and "light" cycles. 

 

I didn't think of registering my machine since I'm not the original owner and it's out of warranty.  I wonder whether they can tell me where it was before, at least the city or town -- if the previous owner registered it.

 

I don't think I have the same capability on my machine for sensor settings and more water.  If I do, it would be accomplished by pushing a series of buttons and counting flashing lights, but the only thing I saw in the owner's guide that could be changed that way was the rinse aid dosage.

 

I'll get the info off of my machine's tag and see about registering it on line.


Post# 698748 , Reply# 60   8/25/2013 at 04:34 (3,890 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Economy Program

mrb627's profile picture
I tried using the Economy Program once and the cycle cancelled itself. The message on the panel said the incoming water temperature wasn't hot enough.

Malcolm


Post# 698767 , Reply# 61   8/25/2013 at 09:06 (3,890 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        
nmassman44

I went to the setting menu and there is a setting that says "adjust sensor wash"
the options are on and off. Mine is set to off. Is this the setting you are talking about?


Post# 698768 , Reply# 62   8/25/2013 at 09:08 (3,890 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        
Malcolm

I don't have my manual handy but I am probably using the wrong cycle name because I have the Dw language display set to GB. If it is not economy then it was the cycle named Energy save.

One thing though is that you have a newer model and don't think the cycles behave the same on the newer DW.


Post# 698770 , Reply# 63   8/25/2013 at 09:16 (3,890 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

nmassman44's profile picture
yes Jerrod you found it...turn it to on.

Post# 698836 , Reply# 64   8/25/2013 at 14:11 (3,890 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

I can't imagine ever opting for the "Economy" cycle.  That's too much like doing laundry in cold water. 

 

Since I'm not able to change settings on my machine, I'll probably use "Normal" 90% of the time and either "Pots and Pans" or "Light" as required once in a while.


Post# 698849 , Reply# 65   8/25/2013 at 15:05 (3,890 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        
rp2813

Actually economy is not as bad as it sounds. First of all the cycles found on the models that we have are configured differently than the newer DW with the same cycle names. I found my manual and Economy is the correct name for the cycle I was referring to. On my machine there is another cycle that behaves the way Malcolm describes by not heating the water and using your household water temperature. The name of that cycle is Energy Saver. So Miele has changed the behavior of some cycles while using the same name and also they have deleted some cycles on the newer machines that were found on the older machines. No problem since they all work good.

Economy gives me a main wash of about 45 minutes with a temp of around 125F, two rinses and a dry which uses a lower temp of water than other cycles but still dries well. I use this cycle a lot for average soil and get very good results, so give it try it and see what you think. Last time I used it it ran for 1 hour 26 minutes and cleaned everything in sight.



Post# 698852 , Reply# 66   8/25/2013 at 15:20 (3,890 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        
nmassman44

Ok I turned this setting On. Actually I had tried this setting years ago but didn't see any difference in the sensor cycle so switched it off. I didn't realize it affected the sensor use in other cycles.

Will try it Monday afternoon which is when I will wash the dishes from Friday night, Saturday, and Sunday. Not a lot since I mostly eat out on the weekend. guess I'll try it with the normal cycle. When I use the sensor cycle the time left will be adjusted up or down about 13 minutes into the wash. Does this happen in Normal also?

So after that on Tuesday I am going to try my 1 clean plate test and see what happens. I hope I get the sensor working in all cycles - if not then my software is just different than yours and I will probably live with it.

Also your Dw looks great in your kitchen against the black countertop and stainless sink.



Post# 698871 , Reply# 67   8/25/2013 at 18:48 (3,890 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Unless Miele changed the software exclusively for the US models, the Adjust Sensor Wash option limits the range of possible water temperatures on the Sensor Wash cycle from 113F as a minimum to 131F as the lowest temp.

Post# 699087 , Reply# 68   8/26/2013 at 18:45 (3,889 days old) by machinehead ()        
Make mine Miele, bitte!

Drool, drool, drool! I did a lot of research on DW's about 3 mos ago, looking at all the higher-end stuff: Viking, Thermador, Miele, Bosch 800+ series, etc. Fell in love with Miele... Someday, when I grow up, I'd love a Futura Diamond in our kitchen, in-cabinet lighting and all... Till then the KDS-17A will keep the seat warm. Beautiful machines, guys...

Post# 699275 , Reply# 69   8/27/2013 at 14:45 (3,888 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        
Oh yeah

I see that diamond and it makes me want to sell something.

I am in the second stage of testing the adjust sensor setting - using one l clean dinner plate - so I will post something Thursday after I run a final load using the sensor cycle to compare it with Normal.



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