Thread Number: 48049
Norge Heavy Duty 20 |
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Post# 696851 , Reply# 1   8/16/2013 at 12:29 (3,876 days old) by dustin92 (Jackson, MI)   |   | |
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Don't give up on it, I am sure it can be fixed. It sounds like maybe your main seal has given out? I can't really give any more advice, but I am sure someone here can point you in the right direction! |
Post# 696856 , Reply# 2   8/16/2013 at 12:39 (3,876 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)   |   | |
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First try pulling off the agitator and see if beneath it is the source of oil problems, leakage around the top of the steel rod post. There's a white plastic round fitting in the top center of the agitator, then under that is a 7/16 or 3/8 nut. Then pull of the agitator, not easy. There are a few O-rings and available seals that fit on the agitator post and under the block on top of the post(removed with an Allen wrench), possibly those are in need of replacement. I would expect them to be very dirty and grimy, but especially look to see if the oil color/etc seems to match your problem spots. Second, remove the front of the cabinet--2 screws near the floor---and check for oil/water leaks inside the cabinet. Don't expect it to be very clean, but a picture or two posted here may help someone diagnose. Others will have more ideas, but major rebuilds on this machine aren't easy. At all. If you happen to have transmission fluid rising up and working its way into the tub, through a variety of seals and O-rings, that machine ain't in great shape.
Others here have more Norge knowledge than I, and I am somewhat(??) stuck in the middle of a 1978 Norge rebuild. From my limited knowledge I can't really guess at the source of your spots. Watch the outcoming waste water. Is it flowing as fast as you ever remember, or maybe a pump problem and dirty water is straining thru the clothing too much? Are the spots spread all over, or do they match the perforations inside the tub? Matching the perforated holes would tell me pump/discharge problems. Also, are spots and oil residue left inside the tub when you remove the clothes? That is a sign of leaking oil into the water, not a sign of pump problems. I'm just thinking of mine and typing away at you, sorry.
I have very much enjoyed 2 years with my Norge, but in tearing it apart and seeing how it was designed in the 50's and never updated, I agree they have some major problems once they reach 30 years of age. But 30 years of use ain't bad, I am not knocking Norge.
I will continue to watch this thread and hope you find an easy fix and continue to enjoy your favorite machine. However, if things are beyond your desire or ability to fix, please keep me in mind if you decide to get rid of the machine. Depending on where you are in Ohio, I may be interested in your dead Norge.
My picture shows the agitator removed. Mine had old ugly grimy build-up, but not new wet grease. Check yours. My other pics are of a complete teardown, no help to you. So far, darn it, my pics don't show a complete rebuild.
I am in Akron, and happy to watch this thread and answer any questions I can, but others will have more knowledge and success with Norges. And pictures might help us diagnose. |
Post# 696871 , Reply# 3   8/16/2013 at 13:59 (3,876 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 696874 , Reply# 4   8/16/2013 at 14:11 (3,876 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )   |   | |
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Tale the time and expense to fix it, you will never find anything even remotely as good today! |
Post# 696882 , Reply# 6   8/16/2013 at 14:45 (3,876 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)   |   | |
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Have a few days patience, someone else may have a better answer. It's a good sign that the inner cabinet is dusty instead of greasy and wet. Give the various folks who post here a few days, who knows. Transmission leaks are extensive difficult work. Sealing up the agitator post may be much easier and resolve the problem.
See if you can get the agitator spline off, that vertical grooved item like in my pic, with a set screw and lots of elbow grease, maybe a gear/pulley remover. Under it are various O-rings and washers, pretty similar to garden hose washers. If oil isn't sprayed around the cabinet interior, then it has to be a SLOW SLOW leak, and sealing the agitator post may make the machine run oil-free for a few more years. There is also a spring enclosed washer, maybe next to impossible to find new, but maybe a short stack of garden hose washers or whatever size it takes will seal you up? I hate to give up on a Norge.
Keep coming back here a few days and see if there are better answers, I am not a pro. I am watching to learn, like you.
Look carefuly BEFORE YOU REMOVE CLOTHING. Are the oil drips on the clothes straight out from the base of the agitator? That would narrow it down and prove oil is seeping routinely from under that vertical grooved spline, down the inner tube of the agitator and out the underside of the base.
As you and your husband check it out, keep in mind that the grooved top is for the agitator, it turns 180 degrees back and forth while washing. The main tub and its tube rising up to barely beneath the vertical grooved block are stationary while washing, then spin 640 RPM for the spin cycle. It's that small amount of space in between that you are trying to seal. Sealing is supposed to be from inside/under the vertical grooved spline.
This post was last edited 08/16/2013 at 15:07 |
Post# 696886 , Reply# 7   8/16/2013 at 15:15 (3,876 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)   |   | |
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This item MIGHT be exactly what you need. But I'd hate to tell you to spend $30 and be wrong. This is the springs/washers/seals for inside/under the grooved agitator spline, where it sits atop the spinning tubs inner tube. Hopefully you can get that grooved spline off and inspect the seals, likely worn to nothing, spring deflated after all these years. I CANNOT guarantee this will solve your problem. Any pics you can take of your overall machine and console, then open the lid and a picture of the agitator, will help us know your exact style/era of Norge. This Ebay sale is extremely likely for your machine, and your 30 year old seal/spring system is likely horrid, but I am no pro, just advising from typed paragraphs, no pictures or anythng seen.
And you're very likely to need a gear puller to get that spline off the post. But they can be found cheap, auto-parts stores.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO akronman's LINK on eBay |
Post# 696889 , Reply# 8   8/16/2013 at 15:17 (3,876 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)   |   | |
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Post# 696892 , Reply# 9   8/16/2013 at 15:34 (3,876 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)   |   | |
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Here is my original post when I got my Norge. I love the machine. It did love me for 2 years, then it changed its mind. I am working to change it back. CLICK HERE TO GO TO akronman's LINK |
Post# 697183 , Reply# 10   8/17/2013 at 20:54 (3,875 days old) by supersurgilator (Indiana)   |   | |
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As soon as you said it was green, my initial thought was that it was fabric softener residue coming through the holes in the spin. Hopefully the hot wash you ran it through will clear it all out. |
Post# 697939 , Reply# 12   8/21/2013 at 18:21 (3,871 days old) by lovemynorge ()   |   | |
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Mr. Akronman, Im am actually on vacation now, but as soon as I return, Ill see if I can post some pics and determine if the seal is right for my vintage model. |
Post# 697956 , Reply# 13   8/21/2013 at 20:33 (3,871 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)   |   | |
This post has been removed by the member who posted it. |
Post# 697957 , Reply# 14   8/21/2013 at 20:37 (3,871 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)   |   | |
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Post# 697974 , Reply# 15   8/21/2013 at 21:34 (3,871 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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My friend Bob in Cleveland has three of these machines that WORK and they are close to just getting scrapped because he is moving his shop and does not want to take these along. They are available for little or nothing, contact me for contact information.
While these interesting machines are great performers when they get old and have serious problems they are one of the most difficult washers to repair. This is because, 1 they DO NOT come apart easily, 2 they will need LOTS of parts to fix them properly and 3 you will be very lucky if you can find even 1/3 of the parts to do the job properly, let alone the expense and difficulty of completing the repairs.
If you want to keep a Norge working I would suggest doing what I did, find a low mileage machine without major problems and swap out the major inner tubs,transmission, main bearings and seal assembly.
PS to LovingmyNorge, I would bet you would be thrilled with a new Speed Queen TL washer, if I were you and wanted to continue to use a traditional TL washer for the next 20 - 30 years I would buy one soon before this choice is not available, John. |
Post# 697999 , Reply# 16   8/21/2013 at 23:55 (3,871 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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Post# 700975 , Reply# 18   9/3/2013 at 21:37 (3,858 days old) by lovemynorge ()   |   | |
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Here is the control panel from my Norge |
Post# 700977 , Reply# 19   9/3/2013 at 21:45 (3,858 days old) by lovemynorge ()   |   | |
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I am attaching a picture of the seal diagram and the packing box. |
Post# 700983 , Reply# 20   9/3/2013 at 22:14 (3,858 days old) by lovemynorge ()   |   | |
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Sorry, couldnt fit the seal box in the pic. The box was marked "The Westward Company". |
Post# 701051 , Reply# 21   9/4/2013 at 07:08 (3,857 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)   |   | |
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Now I'm not sure what to advise, stumped here. Darn. And it's extremely difficult to find any parts list to prove your transmissin is the one that matches your seal. I have yet to find any PN's for mine, I just look for anything marked Norge, Montgomery Wards, Magic Chef, and if it looks like my machine I buy it. The seal you got is the only seal I know of, everything about your machine looks exactly like my 1978 spindle, splined post, etc. I bet your old worn seal looked about exactly like the new one, right? Did you clean the innards of the splined post so the seal seated well? I'm just asking everything I can think of because I am stumped.
What exact year is your Norge? It must be one of the last before they ended production of this old technology.
Hopefully someone else here will be able to give better advice. I will be watching to hopefully learn, and thank you for your pics and getting back on this website after vacation.
I truly hope all goes well for your continued use of that Norge, I hope my advice proves that, but I must say that if nothing works and you decide on a new machine, I may be interested in your washer. My 1978 is currenlty out of commission, difficult repairs, and maybe various assemblies swapped from one to the other will get one back into working order in my basement. But I'd rather see the correct advice given here, a success story that will get both of us back to that loud Norge wash. |
Post# 701068 , Reply# 23   9/4/2013 at 08:13 (3,857 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)   |   | |
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Post# 701714 , Reply# 25   9/7/2013 at 09:42 (3,854 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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The Model # is on the front of the machine near the floor [ peeking through an oval hole punched in the front panel ] or on the top or rear of the control panel, the 33-7929 # is the part # for the lid.
The little bit of oil that is leaking will never hurt the transmission in the next 5 years, the real issue is that water is probably leaking into the transmission from the lower seal around where the washer tub is mounted causing the oil to float up and leak out at the top of the agitator post, replacing this top seal will not fix the washer for long.
These Norge Built washers are great performers while they last, BUT they are very difficult and expensive to repair if not impossible given the availability of replacement parts.
AGAIN my friend Bob in Cleveland has 3 working Norges that he will practically give away and if they do not find homes they will be recycled for scrap metal, contact me if anyone needs contact information, John. |
Post# 701746 , Reply# 26   9/7/2013 at 12:22 (3,854 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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Too bad the machine in the link below isn't closer to you, presuming with a huge leap of faith that it hasn't worked itself to death. It has some interesting options you rarely see.
Of course the Maytag also shown is light years beyond Norge/Magic Chef in build quality and durability, and would be the preferred machine of the two by most members here. Hint, hint.
Just for kicks, take a look: CLICK HERE TO GO TO rp2813's LINK |
Post# 701747 , Reply# 27   9/7/2013 at 12:40 (3,854 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)   |   | |
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Post# 702818 , Reply# 30   9/12/2013 at 08:50 (3,849 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)   |   | |
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