Thread Number: 48216
15kg LG washer launched in Germany
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Post# 698823   8/25/2013 at 13:38 (3,868 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Hey there!

I have been on holiday for 2 weeks now and as in a few days the IFA starts, today I checked all of my known sites for new products and as I went above the LG Germany site, I saw this: A 15kg labeled washer (see link). Just checked the standard facts:
-All standard cycles
-All standard LG-options
-All in all normal energy consumption etc.

But there are some special things I recognized:

-First of all, this machine is huge with 98,2cm (38.66 inch) heigth, 68,6cm (27 inch) width and 76,7cm (30 inch) depth for the EU. So I think, it is based on one of the US BOL modells.
-Furthermore, I was shocked about the weight of the machine: 83kg only. A Miele of normal standards weigths the same being way smaller. Looks like a lot of cheap material, doesn't it?
- But the last thing what really nocked me of the ground was the heater: As all German washers have a heater, and these heaters are used in nearly every cycle to heat up the water from tap cold up to 95°C max, they need power. But tis one only got 2200W. Thats nothing. As much as any other washer. How long will this take on a full boilwash? The Bauknecht BIG (also US based) is labeld 11kg, has the same heater and as Alex (logixx) can tell you, it takes hours to heat up.

So i just want to hear your opinion about that washer and how you think about it (except it is an LG)...

Happy holidays
Henrik


CLICK HERE TO GO TO henene4's LINK





Post# 698834 , Reply# 1   8/25/2013 at 14:07 (3,868 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        

Been on the market here in Italy for more than a couple of years.
Of course I won't trust LG for anything because they have a dreadful reputation, plus they always cheat on what the machine offers.
15 KG my A$$, the drum is only 112 litres... just like stuffing 10/11 kg in a washer with a 74 litres drum in a standard cabinet.

Plus they claim a total warranty of 10 years, while if you look it only has the standard 2 years warranty they are obliged to offer and 10 years is only on the motor, which notoriously is the component less prone to damage in a washing machine.


Post# 698839 , Reply# 2   8/25/2013 at 14:35 (3,868 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA)        
IIRC..

frontloaderfan's profile picture
LG had an enormous frontloader when I still lived in Germany back in the late '90s - 2000's. It had the control panel on the rear of the top panel like a US toploader and it also had the detergent dispenser on the top. The drum was huge as was the rest of the machine but most of it looked to be made of cheap plastic. I was impressed by the commercial-grade size but went with the Miele instead. I believe it cost something like DM 1800,- back then.

Post# 698840 , Reply# 3   8/25/2013 at 14:41 (3,868 days old) by electron1100 (England)        
10 years

electron1100's profile picture
Yes I often laugh when I see "10 year" guarantee on the motor, but of course there is no 10 year guarantee on the seal so when this fails and the bearings go and then take the motor with them the guarantee is useless, misplaced specmanship designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

A sad state of affairs

Yours tired of crap ;-(


Post# 698841 , Reply# 4   8/25/2013 at 14:45 (3,868 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA)        
10 year "guarantee"

frontloaderfan's profile picture
Nothing more than a marketing gimmick really. The average consumer sees the big "10 year guarantee" and thinks it applies to the whole machine, not thinking or knowing that the seals/bearings are much more likely to fail long before the motor does. P.T. Barnum summed up the way most companies think today when he said "there's a sucker born every minute".

Post# 698847 , Reply# 5   8/25/2013 at 15:01 (3,868 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Yeap, it's around 1300 bugs up here, so matching price at all. But if I see our W961 coast 1200 DM, I would definitivley go with the Miele...

Post# 698848 , Reply# 6   8/25/2013 at 15:02 (3,868 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        

On top of that LG spares are among the most expensive on the market and after 8 years they simply disappear from the market and you're left alone!
This I was told from one of their service techs... go figure!
Only Samsung is a bigger offender when it comes at this!


Post# 698850 , Reply# 7   8/25/2013 at 15:09 (3,868 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Ok, Miele spare parts are expensive as well. 70€ for a doorseal... or 160 bugs for a dryer-heater... Thats pretty much, isn't it?

Post# 698930 , Reply# 8   8/25/2013 at 23:37 (3,868 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        

Yes, but I can order a Miele spare for a machine made in 1980 and they still have it!
And on first istance the Miele machine from 1980 will still be working after the repair.
If your LG breaks down you simply call the dump and have it picked up...


Post# 698936 , Reply# 9   8/26/2013 at 00:38 (3,868 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Do Not Think Anyone Can Beat Miele For Spares Costing Dear

launderess's profile picture
But to their credit Miele's parts are very high quality IMHO. We on this side of the pond are biffed twice in that Miele North America (as with AEG for that matter) marks-up the cost of spares to reflect various import and shipping costs.

"X" year warranty on ...

Those things always makes one chuckle. Yes the tub on a dishwasher or washing machine, or motor in same may be warranted for ten years or so, but chances are under all but the most extreme usage other parts will give out long before a motor. Older porcelain on steel or good SS tubs aren't going to wear though soon either.


Post# 698942 , Reply# 10   8/26/2013 at 03:55 (3,868 days old) by l86810 (Southend, UK)        
Any other new LGs?

l86810's profile picture
Only the other day I was thinking it's been a while since we've seen anything thing new from LG.

About a year ago the washing machine buttons round the display were replaced with touch sensitive areas, but no actual functional changes.

It's been ages since they released a new line of washing machines! Anyone know if anything new is coming? Automatic stain removal menu? Turbo wash in the EU? New programs?


Post# 698950 , Reply# 11   8/26/2013 at 04:57 (3,868 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
The big question ofcourse is, how big is that drum actually?

Post# 698960 , Reply# 12   8/26/2013 at 06:38 (3,868 days old) by chris74 ()        
My thoughts

I think one should not mess up dry weight with volume. If you can wash a king or queen size duvet in it (it offers the programme bed spreads) then it is okay even when you do not reach the full capacity of 15 kg / 33 lbs...

@frontloaderfan: I remember that machine, too. Though I think it made a worthy impression back then.


Post# 698961 , Reply# 13   8/26/2013 at 06:57 (3,868 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        
how big is that drum actually?

As I previously wrote is 112 litres and the thing went on sale over here ages ago...

Post# 698989 , Reply# 14   8/26/2013 at 11:38 (3,867 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA)        
@ Chris74

frontloaderfan's profile picture
Do you remember the model number of that LG machine? I remember it fascinated me but it just seemed like too much washer for a single person. I remember Quelle had it, which was where I bought my Miele...

Post# 698990 , Reply# 15   8/26/2013 at 11:42 (3,867 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)        
flipping the coin

aquarius1984's profile picture
When I joined this club 7 years ago I was very dubvious of LG and thought that there machines were rubbish.

Well say what you want the machine that I despised (my mothers) has just made it to its 8th birthday.

Its had one repair in 8 years and those were the bearings. They actually didnt need changing last year as they hadnt quite failed but the bearing seal was starting to fail and the machine made an odd noise while spinning.

Investigation pointed that the bearings were about to fail sooner than later but hadnt actually gone.

7 years old, no repairs at that point from a £320 machine used daily.

Go figure.

The bearings were very easy to replace, the machine is simplicity itself inside. Everything is accessible, replaceable and serviceable.

Now in its 8th year its showing no signs of its demise touch wood and is still washing daily for 4 people and a dog.

Sure its not made in Italy - but then its lasted longer than the POS Italian machine before it.

Id reccomend an LG long before Id go for an Italian one anyday.


Post# 699012 , Reply# 16   8/26/2013 at 13:09 (3,867 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)        
Looks to me that something else flipped...

haxisfan's profile picture
aquarius1984 - what is the need to denigrate Italian products like that... in a short paragraph you mentioned 'Italy/Italian' 3 times and associated it with volgarity and lack of respect. It's clear that you have some personal thing going on there, but it's totally out of place to vent your personal repressions in a forum designed for a totally different purpose.

My Candy made Hoover is even 1 year older than your mum's appliance, and I paid £300.00 including delivery at the time... it has also been used on a daily basis and and it has never had any breakdowns (minor or otherwise) nor repairs. I only just replaced the soap dish cos' the retaining hook just snapped and it would come out of the cavity all the way when pulled open (however it didn't really need to be replaced). The bearings are a little noisy now, but the drum is still firmly attached and they'll probably have a few more years to go.

I also had a Candy dishwasher from 2003 which I sold last year on eBay as it was a basic model and I wanted something more advanced... again, it always worked flawlessly and never seen an engineer. It's now with a new a very happy owner... I don't know how long for though :-P


Post# 699030 , Reply# 17   8/26/2013 at 14:49 (3,867 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)        

aquarius1984's profile picture
Just like the need for those wishing to 'denigrate' Korean and Asian products despite never actually owning one or even expressing first hand experience?

Theres been plenty of Italian machines in our family and 5 out of 6 have not made it past their 5th birthday.

The one Korean machine has surpassed that and was one of the cheapest.

Perhaps you wish I use the old saying 'if you have nothing good to say then dont say anything'?

Maybe when others take that advice too.




Post# 699035 , Reply# 18   8/26/2013 at 15:13 (3,867 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Well, there is the new ECO line on dryers and washerdryers, EcoHybrid I think. These dryers are genius in my opinion: They have a heatpump AND a conventional, small heater. Dry fast and good (reversing drum). And then these washer-dryers have a combined drying system: air and water condensation. I sold one of these during my placement at MediaMarkt here, they seem pretty well built and they would be my second washer-dryer-choice after Miele, of course...

112 liters are the biggest sold washer on the market here at this point of time. Would like to have a 200l dryer down the basement...

But my biggest question was the heater. I mathed that up:
Water has a specific heat capacity of 4.2kJ/kg.
Cottons have a specific heat capacity of 1.34kJ/kg.
1kg cotton-fiber can suck up up to 320g of water (Wikipedia...).
The washer uses 107l each cycle with 3 rinses. Means it uses 26.75l each fill.
Let's say the water has 20° when it enters the machine.
Now we have 15kg of cotton and 26.75l of water in the drum. To heat up that mass 1°C, we need 15*1.34kJ+26.75*4.2kJ=132.45kJ.
The heater offers 2200W output at 85% efficiency, what makes 1870W effective heating power.That means it gives us 1870J-->1.87kJ each second.
Now we divide these 132.45kJ by these 1.87kJ and get round about 71 secods for each degree celcius to heat up.
Now see the standard temperatures:
-At 40° we need to heat 20°, means 20*71s=1420s=23min and 20sec.
-At 60° we need to heat 40°, means 40*71s=2840s=46min and 40sec.
-At 90° we need to heat 70°, means 70*71s=4970s=82min and 54sec.
More then a hour to heat for a boilwash... WTF??? That's fu***** much!!!
And then add the soaking, rinsing, balancing, spinning etc. times. You end up at more then 3 hours for a boilwash... Thats to much...
But, who knows better then we? ;D


Post# 699046 , Reply# 19   8/26/2013 at 15:39 (3,867 days old) by electron1100 (England)        
Asian machines

electron1100's profile picture
Yes I am afraid my opinion of Asian made machines was tainted by working at the re-cycling centre.

An example would be every LG that came in had knackered bearings, the build quality was nothing special, the bearing housings were fairly small so I can only assume so were the bearings fitted, or of course was the seals that were failing, I mean your mums only lasted 7 years which to me is a very short time for a tub seal to last.

Then there was the guy on here who stripped that LG direct Drive washer to repair it and gave us plenty of pictures and descriptions of its failings the list goes on though LG are not the only company churning out this sort of equipment on an unsuspecting public

Then of course there were all the other budget Asian machines, much the same but even more under engineered and cheaply made only a few years old if that, then of course all the electrical failures, control boards etc etc, so from my viewpoint Asian machines have nothing to offer other than glitzy front panels.

And of course my Bosch was a German built one not that did it any good as I only kept it a year so I cannot comment on its longevity.

As regards saying nothing I do try and be constructive in my criticisms of machines that I think do not make the grade and my opinions on LG machines have been talked about openly on here before

If you now own an Asian machine and are happy with it then good for you, enjoy it.

But I think to write off Italian machines in such a negative way is not called for, remember Italy was one the premier washing machine producing countries, it is only cheap crap coming from other countries that have forced them and other countries to downgrade their own products to compete with cheap labour countries, so we all end up in this situation.

Gary



Post# 699047 , Reply# 20   8/26/2013 at 15:48 (3,867 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)        

haxisfan's profile picture
@ henene4 - your talking about a new ECO line on dryers and washerdryers, and EcoHybrid... what are they... LG?

@ aquarius1984 - Nobody on this thread has made any reference to nations, nationalities or races but yourself. I'm probably missing something out here but I fail to grasp the reason why you're saying these things to me. I don't have a problem with stating the name of the brand which has caused me distress, without picking on the whole race of people associated with the country where the product comes from. For that very reason I'm not too keen on Indesit products independently of the country where they're made/designed. Maybe in this case you should re-read your last sentence and follow your own advice.


Post# 699048 , Reply# 21   8/26/2013 at 15:50 (3,867 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)        

aquarius1984's profile picture
Gary,

My response was not directed at you, I respect your findings and experience.
They are very valid and very first hand.

I was responding to the member who has not had first hand or quantitive experience with details and explanations passing comment about something he clearly dosnt know about.

7 years is young I agree but given the life expectancy of 6-7 years of a machine its on the nose and considering it was easily repaired given 2 hours work and cheap parts its exceeded its owners expectations and mine too.

Like I mention its outlasted those Italian machines previous to it and that alone given its cost, I think a good deal compared to what could of been bought and disposed of during the 8 years.

Hope no offence caused to yourself Gary, really wasnt you I was posting about. :)


Post# 699050 , Reply# 22   8/26/2013 at 15:54 (3,867 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)        

aquarius1984's profile picture
Haxis-fan,

My post was neither to you too.

The culprit seems to have a fixation with slagging off Korean goods on previous threads and when the shoes on the other foot seems nowhere to be seen as usual!!!!!

For every reason he finds slag off an LG I can mention something Italian im sure.

:)


Post# 699054 , Reply# 23   8/26/2013 at 16:00 (3,867 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)        
aquarius1984... I see :-)

haxisfan's profile picture
I apoligise for sabotaging this thread this way, I'm still curious to hear what henene4 has to say on the EcoHybrid machines ;-)

Post# 699064 , Reply# 24   8/26/2013 at 16:15 (3,867 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Yes, LG. They are called EcoHybrid (as I looked up now..) and are pretty new here. These washer-dryers were avaible since spring as a 9/6 and a 8/6 kg version, now they started a 12/8 kg version, too. Heatpumpdryers launched the same time as 9kg and 8kg, later came one without glass-door, know the 9kg version had been quit.

Post# 699427 , Reply# 25   8/28/2013 at 05:12 (3,866 days old) by chris74 ()        
Model No.

@ frontloaderfan:

Sorry, I don't remember its name. And since Quelle is no more, I think it was rarely available anyway.


Post# 699492 , Reply# 26   8/28/2013 at 12:26 (3,865 days old) by washerlover24 ()        

Who would produce enough washing to fill one of these though I wash for 3 and that's with a six year old getting changed a least twice a day considering its the six weeks holiday at the moment and I'm using a 5kg currys essential washing machine and I have that on once or maybe twice a day but I think having a 15kg washing machine for domestic use is abit silly I would never buy a machine with over 8kg I reckon I've had a hotpoint ultima with a 8kg and I think it's too big, ok don't get me wrong it came in handy sometimes but not very often I used to find myself under filling it all the time , I've got to switch to a compact washing machine and tumble dryer soon with a tiny 3kg load due to I'm moving and the flat I'm moving to has only the space for a small washing machine, but 15kg is just way to big.

Post# 699504 , Reply# 27   8/28/2013 at 13:01 (3,865 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
83 kilos - that's not much. Mine is 101 kilos with a 92 liters drum and I thought that was light weight.

Yes, mine takes quite a while to get hot. It can do a 60C wash for a full load of lighty soiled cottons in two hours but I suppose that means as soon as the NTC registers 60C, it will drain. Thermals holds are practically unknown to the washer. If I load - as the manual suggests - six kilos into the washer and select Daily Wash, it'll drain after 25 minutes of main wash regardless of whether the temp is at 40C or not.

Unfortunately, this new place I'm living at does not have hot water in the laundry room - otherwise, heating wouldn't be an issue. I really wonder why they can't make washers with 3.500 watt heating elements any more. My dryer draws almost 3.000 watts so why not the washer, too? *grrr*

The EcoHybrid LG is on the Englisch web site as well:

www.lg.com/uk/washer-dryers/lg-F1...


Post# 699509 , Reply# 28   8/28/2013 at 13:41 (3,865 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

83kg? 101kg with 93l drum??? I think you mean 8kg and 11kg, don't you? And that's really no matter at all. 16A can give you 3200W, and that will match to the most houses at all...

Post# 699512 , Reply# 29   8/28/2013 at 13:58 (3,865 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
The LG weighs 83 kilos and has a 112 liters drum.
Mine weighs 101 kilos and has a 92 liters drum.

The LG seems really leight for such a high "rated" capacity of 15 kilos.

That's what I thinks, too. 16A should be possible with most households. Most condenser dryers here are rated at 16A and no one complains. But washers are all just 10A...


Post# 699516 , Reply# 30   8/28/2013 at 14:20 (3,865 days old) by paulc (Edinburgh, Scotland)        
83kg

paulc's profile picture
Seems awfully light for such a big capacity washer. My Miele is 95kg, 6kg capacity.

Post# 699721 , Reply# 31   8/29/2013 at 08:25 (3,864 days old) by chris74 ()        
One cannot compare FL to TL, but...

...our Candy TL holds 7kg and I doubt it reaches 70kg empty weight...When it comes to the spin cycle I always believe it is going to burst (or blast).

Post# 699726 , Reply# 32   8/29/2013 at 09:10 (3,864 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

7kg load to 70kg weigth is good. But EU TL machines are always more heavy then FL machines as they have a higher leveled center of gravity. Mieles with 5.5kg TL modells weigth at least 90kg, even through they use GlaronK, a special mixed plastic, for the outher tub...

Post# 699780 , Reply# 33   8/29/2013 at 14:33 (3,864 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
I just had a look at the Samsung WF 431 (sold over here as a "commercial model") and it only weighs 100 kilos as well - at a rated capacity of 14 kilos.

The Bosch Logixx 10 was around the same weigh for a ten kilo capacity. Besides, it only came with a weak heating element of only 1300 watts IIRC.


Post# 699836 , Reply# 34   8/29/2013 at 16:53 (3,864 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        
Italian machines longevity

I had a German AEG, and the bearings barely lasted 3 years. The Zanussi which followed, lasted 8 years: the motor was on the way out. Now have a Panasonic.

My mum had British Hoover machines, followed by a Candy-ised Hoover Excel which lasted about seven years (motor and electronics). She now has a Bosch aged 7 years.

My sister had a Candy Aquaviva and it lasted about 14 years. Now has a Bosch.

My brother had a Candy Combiwash and it lasted even longer. Now has a Hotpoint.


Post# 699946 , Reply# 35   8/30/2013 at 10:25 (3,863 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Which Pani do you have? I got a NA148VG4, really great machine....

Post# 700599 , Reply# 36   9/2/2013 at 10:28 (3,860 days old) by chris74 ()        
Samsung 12kg

A WiFi washer... Weight 71 kg, drum volume 79 litres. I think this is way too little. The 60° programme will run 4h4mins, this is ridiculous. 2.400W seems a little bit weak, too.


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