Thread Number: 48407
Filtrating in Minneapolis
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Post# 701502   9/6/2013 at 00:40 (3,857 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

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One of my pipedreams since I have discovered the joys of AW was to have in my very own possession an early Frigidaire Filtrator dryer.  Well, thanks to an alignment of the stars, hard work and persistence, my dream has come true!  Now i can enjoy the pleasure of Filtrator soft towels in the middle of a MN winter!  Here are some pics of the 1952 TR-60:





Post# 701503 , Reply# 1   9/6/2013 at 00:41 (3,857 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

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Inside the drum looking at the RadianTubes:


Post# 701504 , Reply# 2   9/6/2013 at 00:42 (3,857 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

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The other side looking at the drum light and ozone lamp:


Post# 701505 , Reply# 3   9/6/2013 at 00:45 (3,857 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

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The timer, along with the roaster thermometer that I Installed next to the thermostat capillary tube:


Post# 701506 , Reply# 4   9/6/2013 at 00:46 (3,857 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

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More to come as I check out the unique features of this unique dryer!!!


Post# 701508 , Reply# 5   9/6/2013 at 01:29 (3,857 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        
YAY MARK!!!

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CONGRATS on getting a dream machine!  

 

I look forward to reading and seeing more about it!

 

Kevin


Post# 701512 , Reply# 6   9/6/2013 at 02:56 (3,857 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

What do the towels smell like when they come out of this dryer?

Post# 701513 , Reply# 7   9/6/2013 at 02:59 (3,857 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Welcome To The World Of Condensor Dryers

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Must admit those vintage Frigidaire Filtrator dryers have always peaked my interest. Would have one if space and knowledge of vintage appliance repair/maintenance could be trusted. We look forward to hearing from you on this matter.

Congrats!


Post# 701521 , Reply# 8   9/6/2013 at 06:01 (3,857 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        
Congratulations on achieving a dream

Now you will enjoy the Fitrator perfume in your basement. Not even the Hamilton can make that fragrance because it depends on the concentration of the ozone and the boiled cotton smell in the steam.

Something else at which the Filtrator excells is dewrinkling things like suit coats. Throw in a very damp towel to build up some steam and after a few minutes throw in the wool suit coat. In 5 minutes or less, it is wrinkle free.

Never ever let it stop for long with the heater red hot as it can damage the porcelain drum.

Have fun.


Post# 701522 , Reply# 9   9/6/2013 at 06:08 (3,857 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)        
Allen:

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There is no smell in the world quite like the smell of Filtrator-dried clothing. It's something of an ozone smell, and it smells like the quintessence of clean. It's also a very comforting smell, for some reason. I've only been around a Filtrator (one just like Mark's) in a member's home, but I can easily imagine that people who grew up with one in their house have very fond memories of it.

Post# 701523 , Reply# 10   9/6/2013 at 06:21 (3,857 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

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Very nice, indeed, Mark!!   The cabinet looks mint - hope I look that go when I'm in my 60s...

 

Love the photo of the glowing Radiantubes!


Post# 701543 , Reply# 11   9/6/2013 at 11:06 (3,856 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        
Right Away,

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I was going to ask you what's up with that cute little Geiger Counter on the console, but you explained in Reply #3.

The futuristic pics of the glowing drum are a real surprise--had no idea!

Beautiful. I can only imagine the fragrance, the joy, and the warmth. How nice you've found your dream, and started our day with a nice uplift. Thanks.


Post# 701589 , Reply# 12   9/6/2013 at 15:30 (3,856 days old) by christfr (st louis mo)        

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oh your gonna love this dryer they sound so neat and even smell good

Post# 701593 , Reply# 13   9/6/2013 at 15:49 (3,856 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

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Great idea to use a roaster thermometer.  Amazing to see how far the thermostat has drifted over the years.  I'll be curious to hear about the results after you make adjustments.

 

Ben


Post# 701603 , Reply# 14   9/6/2013 at 16:41 (3,856 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

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I like the idea of the thermometer too! Congrats on your new acquisition!

 


Post# 702358 , Reply# 15   9/9/2013 at 20:21 (3,853 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        
More Filtramatic (r) goodness!

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I have continued to play with the filtrator over the last few days.  I'm not entirely sure why I have chosen 90+ degree days to work on the hottest operating dryer ever created!

 

Here is inside the back after careful vacuuming:


Post# 702361 , Reply# 16   9/9/2013 at 20:25 (3,853 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

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Then, since I had stock on hand, I decided to add a 25 amp relay to control the 240 volt current to the Radiantubes.  This should nearly eliminate any chance of contact failure in the timer, thermostat and centrifugal switch.  The control circuit now draws 5 watts at 120 volts instead of 4400 watts at 240 volts!


Post# 702363 , Reply# 17   9/9/2013 at 20:27 (3,853 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

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So, since it's only 92 degrees with a 70 degree dew point, I thought I'd dry a load of sheets.  Here we are at the thermostat cut-out temperature:


Post# 702364 , Reply# 18   9/9/2013 at 20:28 (3,853 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

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The steamy drama that only Filtration can provide!


Post# 702373 , Reply# 19   9/9/2013 at 21:22 (3,853 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Filtrator Fun

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Great progress Mark, you will enjoy this dryer even more during a cold Minnesota winter.

 

I can't tell how you wired the added relay, but you should let the full heater current continue to go through the heater safety thermostat, otherwise if you relay contacts stick you will have a real disaster on your hands and the world may lose another of these rare dryers. Also if you have the new 4 wire dryer cord plugged into a properly wired outlet you should connect the green wire from the cord to the cabinet of the dryer.

 

Keep us posted about further testing, Tom and I rebuilt and used several of these orignal Frigidaire Filtrator Dryers many years ago and we both still have one or more that we still use occasionally. In fact at one time we had one from every year that FD made these, all 7 different styles, we have since thinned the heard a little. All that is left is the TR-61 [ a factory 120 model that has just one 1800 watt element ] that I have connected in my basement, I also have a 1957 and a 1960 version and Tom has the 1956 and 1958 versions, all of ours are white.


Post# 702375 , Reply# 20   9/9/2013 at 21:32 (3,853 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

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John thanks for your comments about this.  Good point about the safety Thermostat.  

 

I included that in the control circuit and NOT in the actual heater circuit.  I get your point about that, though.  That will be a revision that I make the next time I need to remove the back.

 

The reason the white and green are together has to do with the wiring in the building which is a long and not terribly interesting story.  I know it's not kosher according to code but it really is safe for the way I am using it.


Post# 702391 , Reply# 21   9/9/2013 at 23:01 (3,853 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        
Gentlemen, I was really wondering

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Do other condenser dryers give the same effect, or do you need the ozone lamp?

Or, in the end, will only a Frigidaire do, regardless?


Post# 702394 , Reply# 22   9/9/2013 at 23:20 (3,853 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

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I have bypassed the ozone bulb in a few Filtrators and the same 'smell' still emits. When I've used other Filtrators with the ozone bulb wired in I could not differentiate between the two.

Ben


Post# 702407 , Reply# 23   9/10/2013 at 04:59 (3,853 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Wow, that is a real steamy photo! Have no experience with a Filtrator. Was surprised to see a "push to start/pull to stop" cycle dial on a dryer. What does the on/off toggleswitch do?

A beautiful dryer, inside and out. Congrats!


Post# 702408 , Reply# 24   9/10/2013 at 05:13 (3,853 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Have Always Wanted To Find A 120v Version

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But alas it was not to be. *LOL*

Wonder how these GM dryers compare to modern condenser dryer offerings.


Post# 702415 , Reply# 25   9/10/2013 at 06:17 (3,853 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

While the ozone contributes to the perfume, a great deal of the fragrance is due to the steaming of the cotton. If you will remember the scene of Christmas dinner from Dickens' Christmas Carol, when they go to get the pudding that has been steaming in the wash boiler there is this description, "Hallo! A great deal of steam! The pudding was out of the copper. A smell like a washing-day! That was the cloth. A smell like an eating-house and a pastry-cook's next door to each other with a laundress's next door to that! That was the pudding!"

Sometimes the fragrance of boiling hot cotton is achieved by ironing damp cotton with a hot iron.

The toggle switch is for the lights because there is no door switch in this model. The pull to stop timer dial is also because there is no door switch. If the door needs to be opened during the cycle, the machine can be stopped by pulling out on the timer dial instead of turning it to "OFF" which is less convenient.


Post# 702417 , Reply# 26   9/10/2013 at 07:04 (3,853 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        

Way to go Mark. Congratulations! I know the joy of finally getting an appliance that you have wanted for a long time. I am cooking on an O'Keefe that that I got from an AW member that got it from another AW member. Again, congratulations!!

Post# 702434 , Reply# 27   9/10/2013 at 08:58 (3,852 days old) by washerman (cape town)        
How does this work?

Hi there,

I understand the steaming part, but how does this actually cool the stuff down so you can touch it? Does it vent out all of that steam or is there a condenser of some kind?

I would think that this would burn up any lightweight fabric...so how well does it work on things like shirts and anything less than heavyweight denim?

Drew


Post# 702457 , Reply# 28   9/10/2013 at 11:33 (3,852 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

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I figured this would come up at some point.  There are several excellent threads in the archives about Filtrator dryers but I don't have the time to find them right now.  To begin with, study this diagram:


Post# 702458 , Reply# 29   9/10/2013 at 11:34 (3,852 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

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This is a technical explanation taken from an early service manual:


Post# 702461 , Reply# 30   9/10/2013 at 11:52 (3,852 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

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Fabric damage in a filtrator is really not much of an issue if you know what you are doing and use some common sense.  

 

In normal operation things should never get hot enough to cause either degradation, melting or scorching of fabrics.  Fabrics such as polyester will start to signs of degradation at around 350 degrees but do not actually melt until about 500 degrees.  Nylon and Dacron are similar.  Dry cotton will begin to scorch at about 400 degrees.  The normal operating temperature on High for an early filtrator is 210 degrees at the thermostat bulb on high.  In practice this means that the temperature in the middle of a dry load can approach 240-250 degrees.  That's pretty hot, but not hot enough to cause damage first of all because, if timed correctly, things should never actually get so dry that they get that hot at the center.  Secondly, because there is so much steam present in the drum for most of the cycle it is hard to over dry things, again, as long as you keep the cycle times sensible.  Also, I don't know anyone who actually sets these early dryer on the HIGH setting.  I use the medium setting for cottons and LOW for blends and synthetics.

 

 

 


Post# 702475 , Reply# 31   9/10/2013 at 13:50 (3,852 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

There is one problem with the temperatures in the Filtrator and that is that the drum surface can actually be hotter than the air temperature because of the radiant heat from the heaters. Great care must be exercised with heat sensitive fabrics because even if the air in the drum feels just warm, the cylinder can be hot enough for synthetic things to become damaged from the contact. You only have to have it happen once to becopme very, very careful. Generally, if things are wet enough and you are careful, there is no trouble, as Mark said.

Post# 702496 , Reply# 32   9/10/2013 at 15:50 (3,852 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

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Tom, I haven't had it happen to me yet, but I do know of people who have over dried nylon dress socks and found them fused to the drum!  This could actually also happen with the early Maytag dryers with the perforated drum.  


Post# 702498 , Reply# 33   9/10/2013 at 15:52 (3,852 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Cool Down

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Speaking for myself (and I am unanimous) our AEG/Lavatherm does not "cool down" the way one is used to with American vented dryers.

Thus far loads emerge warm to even slightly hot to the touch upon coming out of the dryer. Indeed things are quite moist as well. All this changes as the load meets cool room air. Then whatever moisture remaining evaporates away and things cool down rapidly.

In our vented WP dryer once the heaters shut down for the "Cool Down" portion off cycles not only cool room air enters the chamber. However seeing how condenser dryers are sealed systems this is not possible I think. That is room air does not enter the chamber but is merely used to provide thermal difference for condensation to occur. Therefore it makes little difference to the load inside what the room temperature.

At the end of cycle AEG dryer is still quite warm both outside and inside, along with often moist as whatever water that was not evaporated remains.


Post# 702499 , Reply# 34   9/10/2013 at 15:54 (3,852 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Condenser Dryer "Scent" On Laundry

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Yes, our AEG does this as well, even without an ozone lamp.

We put it down to the fact these condenser dryers are sealed systems thus no outside air reaches the laundry unless or until dryer door is opened.


Post# 702505 , Reply# 35   9/10/2013 at 16:15 (3,852 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

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The AEG dryer may well be a completely closed system.  

 

The first iteration filtrator (1952-1960) was not technically a totally closed system.  Frigidaire designed it such that there would be about 10 cfm of air change in the drum.  In their technical literature they stated that about 50% the moisture from the clothes would be condensed into the collection pan and that the remainder of the moisture would be dissipated into the room.  

 

The second generation of fitrator dryers (1961-1967) appears to be a completely closed system. 


Post# 702508 , Reply# 36   9/10/2013 at 16:42 (3,852 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
50% Moisture Sent Into Room?

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Well you'll won't be short for something to keep you warm this winter! *LOL*

Post# 702512 , Reply# 37   9/10/2013 at 16:52 (3,852 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

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Well, actually no.  It's more like 20 - 30% sent into the room.  Generally speaking you would never take the moisture content of a natural fiber below 20-30%.  So...50% condensed, 25% in the room, 25% left in the fabric.  


Post# 702514 , Reply# 38   9/10/2013 at 16:56 (3,852 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
OIC

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Carry on then.



Post# 702562 , Reply# 39   9/10/2013 at 21:07 (3,852 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        
Taking the Heat

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Can't decide if I'd rather have a condenser dryer now, or a pudding which in our family would be Plum with hard sauce, (smiling).

Great short course and seminar, and many thanks. Last winter when I contracted Combo fever I noticed that all the combos available were condenser dryers. All reviewers mentioned what Laundress did about how the dried load at first seems so moist then quickly dries.

Part of the fascination of laundry for me is scent, the soap, the washing liquors, the clean fresh rinse water, the fragrant line drying, So from what I've read here, a condenser is gilding the lily when one must dry indoors; the scent , transporting; and it does not have to be a Frigidaire.

Have I read correctly?


Post# 702596 , Reply# 40   9/11/2013 at 01:32 (3,852 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

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Here's another recent thread about condenser dryers. Both types of Frigidaire Filtrator dryers were covered in it.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO PhilR's LINK


Post# 702609 , Reply# 41   9/11/2013 at 05:40 (3,852 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Manuals for condenser dryers and even the Hamilton, which dries clothes in a steamy atmosphere, instructed users to test for dryness by taking an item out of the dryer because items would feel damp inside the air in the dryer.

The Hamilton was another dryer which did not cool down because the air stream was mostly pulled through the bottom of the dryer so all of that heated steel at the top of the outer drum under layers of insulation stayed quite warm. I usually direct a stream of air into the upper regions with a Vornado fan to blast some of that heat out into the basement after I am finished with drying during cold weather when I use that dryer.


Post# 702632 , Reply# 42   9/11/2013 at 07:56 (3,852 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Cool Down in Older Dryers

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One of the main reasons that early dryers including condenser dryers did not cool down well in that the cool down time was usually only 5 minutes and many MTs had only three minutes. The early dryer manufacturers were only concerned about the user being able to handle the clothes comfortably when removing them from the dryer, not about the wrinkles that would soon set in from permanent press items sitting in a hot dryer. On modern dryers the cool-down is at least 10 minutes and sometimes more than 30.

 

All Air-Cooled condenser dryers leak at least some of the moisture into the room air where they are operating, these early 1952-1960 Frigidaire s did release around 50% of the water left in the clothing into the room where the machine was operating. My 1962 FD Custom Imperial Filterator that I have been using in the winter for some loads for over 20 years does increase the humidity level somewhat after drying a few loads [ fortunately with an advanced hot air heating system in the house it is quickly well distributed ] but it is much better than early style Filtrator.

 

In the case of Laundresses new AEG condenser dryer that is accumulating little or no water in its collection container I am sure the moisture is going into the room. Laundress it would be an interesting experiment to check the room humidity before you start drying clothing and after you finished drying a few loads. If a condenser dryer is working properly you will always get some water in the pan no matter how fast the load had been spun out.


Post# 702641 , Reply# 43   9/11/2013 at 09:07 (3,851 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

While it is not a condensing dryer, my early 50s GE has no cooldown and completely lacks a no heat setting. It just drys and shuts off. The Hamilton from the same year does have a short cooldown at the end of the cycle. The early Westinghouse auto dry dryers just shut off when the load reached a preset temperature, leaving things hot and dry as hell.

To show you what CAN be done, the Permanent Press drying cycle on our late 60s Philco Duomatic had a long cooldown where the condensing water continued coming into the machine and an 1100 watt element was used to keep the items from getting damp during the cooldown. I rarely used it because I was right there when we dried permapress shirts on the regular dry cycle with its short cooldown and removed items right away, but it was an ingenious cooldown method that gave satisfactory results. The Duomatic was auto dry only, but had a dial that could be set for the degree of dryness. That combined with the inherent soft results of condenser drying always gave perfect results.


Post# 702648 , Reply# 44   9/11/2013 at 09:54 (3,851 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
@Combo

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Wasn't going to post as am sure persons are that sick of hearing about my Lavatherm worries, but have solved the problem.

It turns out besides not having the hose connected to the collecting drawer one was inserting the heat exchanger/condenser improperly.

Directions simply say to *replace* the heat exchanger reversing the method of taking out (pulling out), however when one pondered what was going on whilst staring at the dryer things became clear.

Diagrams on the dryer tell one to pull the condenser unit down and then out. We were simply pushing it back in (again and again). So pulled the thing out and holding it up and pushing upwards reinserted then locked. For the first time one heard a "clunk" sound which meant the nozzle on end of heat exchanger was pushed into the opening in the rear of compartment that leads to the sump/drain pump. Long story short next load that was dried gave about 250ml of water. This water was lint filled and more importantly tinged with bits of blue. Since the hoodies one dried of that colour we take it to mean this was condensed water from this load.

As for where the water was going before we connected the drain hose to drawer properly and inserted the heat exchanger the right way, it cannot enter the room as vapor. Much of it as AEG technical service predicted leaked onto the floor behind and under the dryer. That conversation started by reminding us of our high school physics class; water will always seek a certain level.

The AEG Lavatherm dryer as told to us by AEG Canada is a sealed system. If water collects in the holding chamber before the pump that cannot or is not drained away it will overflow somewhere, but as water, and not turned back into steam. Of course if the sump overflows float will kick in and shut the machine down with proper warning signals as to the problem.

As for amounts of moisture leaking into the room as steam, we've not noticed any change in that regards. Warmth yes, as the dryer becomes very hot during use. Will be able to tell further when cold weather finally arrives and use of the dryer causes windows and or glass to become foggy.


Post# 702651 , Reply# 45   9/11/2013 at 10:09 (3,851 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
IMHO How Much If Any Steam Leaks Into Room With Conendenser

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Is related to how well sealed the door and heat exchanger area are. In a well designed and built condenser dryer those would be the two weakest links such as it was for air leaking both in and out of the dryer.



Post# 702672 , Reply# 46   9/11/2013 at 12:32 (3,851 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)        
Hoodies?

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Launderess, have you taken to taking in washing?

I visualize you in a Marks & Spencer jeweled twinset, nothing less!

Robin's-egg blue, of course - and a pair of those cat-eye glasses so dear to the heart of Mary Whitehouse.


Post# 702694 , Reply# 47   9/11/2013 at 13:47 (3,851 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

"water will always seek a certain level."

And one of the most damning things that could be said of someone's actions in the south was,"Well, water always seeks its own level," because it was always downward, just like behind your dryer.




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