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Thread Number: 48559
Oxydol liquid |
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| Post# 703623 9/16/2013 at 23:11 (3,867 days old) by stan (Napa CA) | ||
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| Post# 703624 , Reply# 1 9/16/2013 at 23:11 (3,867 days old) by stan (Napa CA) | ||
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Back of | ||
| Post# 703634 , Reply# 3 9/17/2013 at 01:57 (3,866 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
I tried it for the first time one month ago, I start with the premise that I don't usually like liquids as I think they does not work as good as the powders, and this is for about every liquid from me tried in my life..
This detergent is just like Dustin describes, in my opinion is total c**p, worth nothing, it's water... does not smell (a very very weak minty/euchaliptus note) and does not leave any scent on clothes... Just colored water with a little surfactant/soap and scent in it...that's it... While it may be a barely okay choice for some people to "refresh" some laundry,I would not use it even for that purpose (it does not leave any smell), it is not good for anything that is dirt... I finished my 15 loads bottle in 2 loads (half bottle per load) as it would not get water sudsy/soapy...it didn't wash anything of course, and didn't left any scent... I cannot imagine using it in the reccomended dosification! I just can't believe they sell this c**p and expect people to buy and like it... well it's a 1$ detergent, okay, but it does not make sense, unless they want on purpose to tease people ...this detergent is a joke...you're buying water... there're $1 liquid that are way better than this! And $1 powders that are actually very good! I can't speak for the powder oxydol as I never tried it yet and I wish I could, especially the 1 cup green package version (not the other stuff with Biz) that looks good and for which I heard very good things... Anyway, this is a meaningless detergent, a joke, a tease....I think the plastic bottle is worth more than the content.... | ||
| Post# 703647 , Reply# 4 9/17/2013 at 04:58 (3,866 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E) | ||
I Use This: | ||
Post# 703686 , Reply# 5 9/17/2013 at 14:43 (3,866 days old) by Yogitunes  (New Jersey) |
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I grabbed two cases, one in some mango-tango scent(red bottle)....very light(watered down), and for very light loads.....I got them for .50 a bottle at Family Dollar.....
I like the bigger 2X liquid version from BigLots, 4.80 a bottle, heavy duty detergent, with a great scent.....and also the Regular formula 1cup powder....for 5.00 at Family Dollar.... 
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| Post# 703732 , Reply# 6 9/17/2013 at 19:05 (3,866 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E) | ||
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The Problem For Me.... | ||
| Post# 703746 , Reply# 7 9/17/2013 at 20:22 (3,866 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
Freddie, I'm so glad to see you restraining itself. You kill me, Buster Crabtree, LOL.
About a year ago or more, my vision was snatched then riveted to a three-shades-of-green (and one of them luminescent) box on the soap shelf at Tops Markets. I got so happy because my Aunt Mickey, (Lenore), whom I'm Aworg-named after, used Oxydol in her Easy Spin, and she loved having me help her do the wash, and would always say, "Mike, would you clean up the machine for me?" No sweeter request have I ever heard. "Clean up" included draining the big tub, removing the spiralator and spinner, undoing the quick connect Y hose & main hose, moving the faucets to and fro. In other words washer boy Heaven. Oxydol had a captivating, unusual, distinctive, sharp smell. Not so much now. Whatever version this once was, it smelled cheap and fake compared to the vintage stuff, but the box when new was really beautiful. The sinister admen's deceit and trickery did its work. Damn them! But it was fun, and the rush of memories of Mickey were worth it. I was doing something else just now--forgot what--and came across this ad for Oxydol from 1949. Interesting that they mention " those no rinse suds" referenced here at Aworg, the other day, in another thread. So here's a pic of my long gone box, and the commercial. WARNING: Very primitive graphics and a dreaded wringer washer--OH NO! Stan, I'll try a whiff of the liq next time shopping. CLICK HERE TO GO TO mickeyd's LINK 
This post was last edited 09/17/2013 at 22:38 | ||
| Post# 703750 , Reply# 8 9/17/2013 at 20:31 (3,866 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E) | ||
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Michael:
The box you show is a concentrated powder version that has been discontinued. What remains is the "Smells So P & G" scent concentrated powder, the Classic One-Cup Formula, and the two versions of the liquid - dollar store and regular with BIZ.
The kind you show is one I would be very happy to see come back; I was very upset when it disappeared, haunting area stores for weeks to find remaining stocks. Only Fareway had any, and pretty soon, it was over. Fortunately, I am presently quite happy with the Classic One-Cup Formula. Which means they'll discontinue it soon, no doubt. | ||
| Post# 703753 , Reply# 9 9/17/2013 at 20:40 (3,866 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
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Yeah, | ||
| Post# 703756 , Reply# 10 9/17/2013 at 20:45 (3,866 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E) | ||
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Michael:
The Classic One-Cup Formula says "Original Scent" on the box, but it's not even close to the smell of the Oxydol my grandmother used. Maybe they mean it's an original scent no one's ever used before, LOL.
It's a clean, slightly citrusy-sweet smell, not too bad and doesn't cling to clothes. But it's not the eye-watering CLEAN smell I remember. By the time my grandmother got through doing up a load of whites, pretreating with original Wisk, then washing with Oxydol and Clorox (in the brown glass jug), I am willing to bet there wasn't a bacterium left in all of East Point, Georgia. The fumes alone were enough to kill germs. | ||
| Post# 703764 , Reply# 11 9/17/2013 at 20:55 (3,866 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
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Sandy ~ Yes, "eye-watering" SHARP-- that's it: you remember. Almost an indescribable scent. One would think they coveted all the recipes for the long-gone scents in a vault deeply recessed. Why can't they bring them out for a new generation? Gain, Calgon, Dash: nothing today is even close. The ads for Gain really make me shudder at their Orwellian "newspeak." I can barely stand the scent, while the vintage version was every bit as intoxicating as the new stuff claims to be. | ||
| Post# 703767 , Reply# 12 9/17/2013 at 21:19 (3,866 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E) | ||
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Michael:
What's funny is that Gain was introduced as a detergent containing enzymes - something that didn't need a separate stain-fighting booster like BIZ. What was even funnier was that both Gain and BIZ were P & G products at the time *, but P & G has never hesitated to play both ends towards the middle, eh? Now Gain stands for odorific excess.
By the way, that heady combo of Wisk, Oxydol and Clorox was probably more chemicals than the EPA would allow Monsanto to mix together today. * BIZ is now a CR Brands product, same as Oxydol, which is why the premium Oxydol liquid contains BIZ stainfighters. | ||
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Post# 703772 , Reply# 13 9/17/2013 at 22:05 (3,866 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.) |
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Here's a box of the classic I picked up this week | ||
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Post# 703774 , Reply# 14 9/17/2013 at 22:08 (3,866 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.) |
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The back | ||
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Post# 703775 , Reply# 15 9/17/2013 at 22:09 (3,866 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.) |
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Apropos to the discussion about washing diapers | ||
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Post# 703776 , Reply# 16 9/17/2013 at 22:12 (3,866 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.) |
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But in case that doesn't do it | ||
| Post# 703800 , Reply# 17 9/18/2013 at 01:06 (3,866 days old) by stan (Napa CA) | ||
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Hi John | ||
| Post# 703816 , Reply# 18 9/18/2013 at 04:55 (3,865 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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Restraining??? Me??? I don't think to be restraining...LOL
I really regret I bought this...I can't understand how this thing can be sold..does not get any sense for me this product, if not the one of being a tease, a swindle on purpose.. I would get more from a bottle of dish soap...and even more scent.. "Oxy power"...where do they see the oxy in it? It's water with a little soap in it, scent is almost unexistent to my nose and laundry does not get any... I don't think I'm restraining... | ||
| Post# 703823 , Reply# 19 9/18/2013 at 06:34 (3,865 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina) | ||
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Hmmmm I did not know the original Oxydol is still available. I will have to get a box to put in my stash. It was pretty good laundry detergent back when I was in college. | ||
| Post# 703845 , Reply# 20 9/18/2013 at 09:12 (3,865 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E) | ||
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Stan:
"Is that box the detergent, or soap version?"
Your answer's right there on the box, where it says: "OXYDOL combines the finest washday detergent with color-safe bleach," plus: "For best results, use no packaged water softener with OXYDOL. In hard water areas, using a little extra OXYDOL works better than adding a water softener, gives a whiter wash, and saves money, too." That would mean a detergent jam-packed with lovely, lovely phosphates. | ||
| Post# 703877 , Reply# 21 9/18/2013 at 13:51 (3,865 days old) by stan (Napa CA) | ||
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Oh yes
see that now. I paid more attention to the front of the box than the back. ( where it says detergent )
Freddy, the bottle I have, is as you, and others have described, watery solution not even as thick as dish detergent, but for $1.00 who cares, I'll use it to wash the car, or something, not a big deal. I'll go back to my own stuff for laundry. And I think your right, for $1.00 I could have got a small box of Sun Detergent (not the best stuff either) but would have been better than this liquid. Oh well! | ||
| Post# 703881 , Reply# 22 9/18/2013 at 14:02 (3,865 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E) | ||
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Um, Actually....
....Since I had some brights to wash in cold water today, I made sure to take a whiff of the Dollar Tree Oxydol liquid while I was using it.
The scent is mild, but it does remind - I said remind - me of the old Oxydol scent. It is not the same, and it's not at the eye-watering intensity of the old scent, but it does make me think of the Oxydol scent I remember from all those years ago. | ||
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Post# 703890 , Reply# 23 9/18/2013 at 14:46 (3,865 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.) |
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Post# 703892 , Reply# 24 9/18/2013 at 14:59 (3,865 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Viscosity
of a liquid detergent has absolutley nothing to do with the detergent`s strenght.
Just add some really strong brine (table salt) and it`ll thicken like magic. All those gel type detergents as Ariel Excell are only marketing BS making you believe it`s super strong. Just think of detergent Pods, the dosing is approximately the same as gels but no need for viscosity control. But I agree, the buck store Oxydol hasn`t impressed me either. Guess it`s really just watered down. | ||
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Post# 703896 , Reply# 25 9/18/2013 at 15:32 (3,865 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Detergent
P&G tried out and perfected perborate bleaching systems with Oxydol before giving the full treatment to Tide With Bleach. Biz also shared some of the same activated oxygen bleach technology.
Thing is because top loading washing machines and all domestic washers for that matter lacked internal heaters wash water never reaches the temps to really get Oxydol going. I mean you didn't see Persil recommending soaking laundry with chlorine bleach before washing did you? Unless very well rinsed a good portion of the perborate bleach in Oxydol would be negated by the remaining LCB if used for soaking. On the bright side if enough Oxydol was used it would drastically cancel out LCB thus acting as an anti-chlor. Have a box of 1970's Oxydol in my stash am going to break out next in the vintage product usage rotation. Sadly though had hoped to save my box of DASH for awhile the box is starting to leak and maybe becoming swollen. This tells me the product might be on it's way out so time to start using it up. Maybe will give vintage "ALL" detergent (with the three B's) a rest and use Dash instead. If it is truly low sudsing and easy rinsing can use it in the AEG. | ||
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Post# 703898 , Reply# 26 9/18/2013 at 15:37 (3,865 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Ariel Excel Gel
I don't down about all that, but can tell you must use *VERY* small amounts in both the Miele and AEG or have terrible rinsing problems. The stuff just does not want to come out.
Problem is the stupid dosing cap while having indicator marks does not take into account gel does not spead out like liquid. So you have to shake or whatever the silly thing to make dispensed product level. By that time you may have put in too much. I've gone to using the small kitchen digital scale one uses for baking to weigh out product instead. One thing with the AEG is that due to the low water levels in most wash cycles it does take awhile for the Excel gel to fully dispense. First time used in Lavamat was worried that the cycle would end before all product fully was shifted out. | ||
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Post# 703905 , Reply# 27 9/18/2013 at 16:15 (3,865 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.) |
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Leaking Dash
That's a shame. The one box I have arrived solid as a rock (well, almost), but with a little careful massaging, without opening the box, it seems to be powdery again. The Monsanto All, on the other hand, is bulging in spots.
I put one of those Damp-Rid things in the closet where I keep detergents to see if that would help keep them from getting clumpy. As for Oxydol, I suppose some people in the Fifties had those dual-temp water heaters that have been mentioned here (there was a gas company film with Darren McGavin that showed how it worked.) Didn't they have temps up to 180°? | ||
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Post# 703907 , Reply# 28 9/18/2013 at 16:40 (3,865 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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You're Better Off Using It Now If Ever
Unless you are simply planning to keep that box of DASH for display you might want to consider cracking it open and putting contents to use.
Having acquired a rather decent powdered detergent from both sides of the pond now, know what to look for in eBay adverts and thus aren't seeking to increase my lot. Unless stored in a dry and climate controlled space all powdered detergent products absorb moisture from the air via carton. Now if the stuff is stored in dry cabinet or shelf that process is slowed. If OTOH stuff has been stored in a damp basement, under sinks, or so forth then all bets are off. Now when looking at detergent offerings on fleaPay or some such I look for clues of damp; mold, staining, bulging and or leaking boxes..... Unless we're speaking of something extremely rare I'll take a pass. | ||
| Post# 703908 , Reply# 29 9/18/2013 at 16:45 (3,865 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina) | ||
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Old Powder Formula Too bad. It did seem a little too good to be true, but I was going to search for it anyway. | ||
| Post# 703909 , Reply# 30 9/18/2013 at 16:48 (3,865 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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Launderess
Machines lacked internal heaters in the USA, true... but that does not absolutely mean they could not have temperatures to have the oxydol (perborate ingredients) going as you say, I mean starting from 140F and more... loaded from the tap...
I do that with my washers (no heaters) and also I use pure perborate alot while doing laundry with soap flakes, and that do a nice job. Like it is for me, for many others it was and it is the same thing... So it does not make sense for me what you say...sorry... I don't also get your statement about Persil not suggesting using bleach in prewash...what you mean? What you refer to? About the fact it contained perborate maybe so no suggesting use of chlorine? Most european detergent does not, never did..like most american ones also does not.. As far as I know no detergent both vintage/old or new from me tried, never suggested or mentioned to have prewash with chlorine... I'm not saying it is no possible, just not commonly..especially as we look for more modern stuff (from the 60s to present)... All the things I could seldomly read indeed were: "If chlorine bleach is needed add it in the last 5 minutes of wash cycle" this for american products meant for top loader machines and they did contain perborate....but never in a detergent box I've read run a pre wash cycle before wash one, never, just a few times in low end chlorine bleach bottles... but again, not saying it is impossible.. But this makes me think at the fact you say of perborate and chlorine eliminating each other... If it is no good to have chlorine left in clothes then it is even less good adding chlorine to wash solution..so where's the point i this? I'm puzzled... European washers ( at least many ones you'd find in Italy) because of the different washing and cycle of the machine, would do chlorine bleaching automatically and this would take place in the first rinse (if needed), or in case of lack of automatic bleaching cycles manufacturers suggest to run a rinse or prewash before wash, or wait to add it manually after wash cycle ( this is the preferental method suggested)... But I see that when one use bleach would probably never mind, care and need to benefit of perborate though rhen... I also found weird what I heard about some machines from elsewhere in europe that would mention that machine gets ruined from bleach??? I find it crazy! Silly! I would never have a machine that gets ruined just for some bleach, moreover in the eventuality I'd need it to get something white before home dying or simply fix a wash error, rare event but possible. I feel like I should be allowed to use bleach in washer! Like a normal machine should.. I mean.. Okay it ruins clothes time after time, but a washer??? Is that made of paper maybe?? Ahahahah! It's not acid! Anyway, as you well know I don't like front loaders and how they do (not) work....so this thing is not going to touch me minimally... This post was last edited 09/18/2013 at 18:47 | ||
| Post# 703910 , Reply# 31 9/18/2013 at 16:52 (3,865 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E) | ||
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180 Degrees?
Yikes!
Even in the days when energy rates were low compared to today's (adjusted for inflation), I can't imagine many people electing to pay for such a high hot-water temp. There is a little-remembered secret about the '50s and the early '60s - economy. Our parents had grown up with both the Depression and wartime rationing, and now that they had it good, they still didn't waste stuff, or money. It was also a single-breadwinner economy, meaning that one parent (usually Dad at that time) brought home the bacon, with all other members of the household dependent on that person financially. I well remember all the home sewing, home freezing and canning, the seat covers and ring-and-valve jobs and Earl Scheib paint jobs to make old cars last a while longer, the constant reminders to "Close that door!" and "Turn out that light!," the self-administered home permanents, the careful use of coupons and the drive to get the most bang for the laundry buck. All of it was necessary to stretch that single, intractable paycheck, and all of us did it without even thinking; it was just the way things were. We were not lower-income people, either; my Dad earned excellent pay for that time and place. It's just that we were buying a house and raising three kids. Millions of new suburbanites lived exactly as we did - getting ahead, but not having it all. Anyone turning a water heater to 180 in my family (immediate or extended) would have found themselves in a comfy institution getting 72 hours of psych evaluation. | ||
| Post# 703915 , Reply# 33 9/18/2013 at 17:24 (3,865 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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My apartment taps (common condo heater) gets out hot water never less of 150°f, it even regularly reaches 170°f - 180°f in high demand times such as lunch hours, morning or dinner times...
I pay for hot water so I want hot water, not warm, hot...but that's just the norm for how I see things...I mix it with cold of course if I need it warm, as it should be.. At the seaside house we indeed have a wall instant water heater that heats water and produce hot water for radiators (like many people do have here) from Vaillant, the max set up gets water at stationary 182 F°.... Also....where I work we have an electric acculumatory water heater, never measured temp there but is as hot as the one coming out my apartment... Electric water heaters over here are not very commonly found because of cost of electricity... I think these temperatures are just the norm....as they should be.. If you don't want to have set up a temperature that high you could easily increase it when you have to do laundry..or even better have a small one installed just for laundry use..maybe filling already warm water from your general household one and you could just turn it on at the time of the need to turn water actually hot (you'd need to let flow some other water to empty the cold one and have it filled with warm).. Anyway...I find the instant ones to be the best choice, they runs at the exact time you need hot water and shuts off at the time you close the tap.. if you have a gas hook up and possibility to install one that's good...then running on gas, the cost is so low than electricity... This post was last edited 09/18/2013 at 17:52 | ||
| Post# 703925 , Reply# 34 9/18/2013 at 19:27 (3,865 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E) | ||
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Andy:
I didn't mean every family did all those money-saving things, but most families I knew back then engaged in one or more of them.
Fred: How cheap are your utility rates in Valenza? Heating water to 180 here in the States would cost a bleeding fortune. Or are you actually the Duchess of Alba, so the cost isn't important? ;-) | ||
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Post# 703931 , Reply# 35 9/18/2013 at 20:24 (3,865 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.) |
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Exactly right, sandy
Nobody would have dreamed of hiring a lawn service -- you did it yourself, or hired a neighborhood kid if you were away. Paint, wallpaper -- DIY. Simplicity dress patterns, check. Church rummage sale for kids clothes, check. Cousins' old tricycle and swingset, check.
Here's the dual temp gas water heating setup video, at the 11:00 mark. The whole thing is worth watching, it's a hoot! Great appliances, too. | ||
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Post# 703937 , Reply# 36 9/18/2013 at 20:31 (3,865 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.) |
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Using old detergent
I know I won't be able to hold off using it forever, Launderess, but am going to take my time and enjoy it. As you once pointed out, there's no use dying with unused detergent!
At the same time, all the old stuff is 40+ years old now, so waiting a few more years shouldn't be a dealbreaker for any of it at this point. | ||
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Post# 703952 , Reply# 37 9/18/2013 at 21:25 (3,865 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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@Kenmoreguy90 Someone upthread made comment about the directions on the Oxydol box suggesting for heavily and or badly stained items that could not be shifted with washing, soaking and or boiling with the product that a one hour soak with "bleach" could work. In the United States "Bleach" universally refers to LCB unless "oxygen" or "all fabric" proceeds the word. Most American homes today do *NOT* give water temps >130F and certainly not 180F from the taps. Back when the package of Oxydol in question was printed it was possible to purchase heaters that gave water at 180F or even 140F but that does not mean water which reached the machine equaled those temps. Distance from the washer along with other factors would influence what temperature "hot" water was when it entered the machine. Then there is unless the washer had good insulation water temp would certainly drop as it encountered both the cooler laundry and the appliance tub/parts themselves. Depending upon cycle length the end temp might be ten or more degrees cooler. Also the package gives the standard washing directions in terms of water suggestions many housewives on this side of the pond followed; that is "hot", "warm", or "cold" water based upon soils and or other factors. Since American washers then and to a large portion still today do not heat water a separate wash or soak with cool or cold water is required before starting a wash with hot. Filling a washer directly with hot water will set certain stains. This was something known going back to soap and water days. Persil and prewash: Unless grossly filthy European washing machines and soiled laundry do not require a prewash. This is because as noted above it is possible to start the wash with cold or cool water and gradually reach hot or boiling. Many machines did include and recommend such a cycle for heavily soiled whites because two washes give better results on such things than one long. Also if the washer was plumbed with both hot and cold the main wash cycle could be started with hot water thus saving a bit of time and costs in heating to very hot or boiling. Adding LCB Five minutes after.... Aside from Oxydol and later Tide few if any domestic American detergents contained oxygen bleach. This was fine because Americans by and large prefer LCB by a wide margin for stain removal and overall whitening and sanitizing of laundry. Chlorine bleach however can affect two components of laundry detergents, bluing agents (OBAs), and enzymes. Once one or both began to be included in American detergents makers began to suggest waiting a period of time after the wash had begun to allow the bluing agents and or enzymes to do their work before adding LCB. Chlorine bleach residue: Commercial laundries have known for ages that the residue from chlorine bleach is harmful to textiles, and by the way the stuff is very hard to completely remove from fabrics. Various chemicals and multiple rinses are used after a bleaching cycle to remove and or neutralize traces of LCB. American housewives OTOH have largely been left to fend for themselves. Older laundry manuals one has read do give instructions about the care required to rinse all LCB away from fabrics and the various techniques and domestic chemicals that will neutralize bleach, but you rarely if ever find such information on a packet of Clorox. In general if you can still smell LCB then it still remains on textiles. Further exposure to heat (drying and or ironing) will activate the bleach and cause fabric damage. This damage can range from yellowing to outright disintegration of textiles. Remember watching someone who had pre-treated a stain with LCB, rinsed, then washed the thing in an automatic washer that had several rinses. She went to iron the shirt and when she came to the area treated with LCB soon as the heat touched area it became one huge hole. That was that for that shirt. Water heaters: Many persons have no choice where the heater is installed and few if any are interested in installing a second unit just to provide hot water for a washing machine. As one has stated again and again, Americans are not that bothered by washing at temps below boiling or even very hot because they are wedded to the use of LCB. Chlorine bleach does all it's whitening and stain removal in five minutes or less. Colder water will clock in near five and hot much less. This is why among other reasons commercial laundries have long had a separate short "bleaching" cycle that comes *after* the main wash. Most housewives either add the stuff at the start of the wash or return during the cycle to do it then. Some top loaders then and now along with most front loaders sold today have bleach dispensers that will add LCB at the proper time. Some do this at a certain mark during main wash, others during the first rinse. This post was last edited 09/18/2013 at 23:10 | ||
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Post# 703953 , Reply# 38 9/18/2013 at 21:37 (3,865 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Machines runied by LCB
No, it is not crazy and many European washer makers from Bosch, AEG, Asko, and even Miele warned against frequent use of LCB and in the case of one (Bosch or Asko cannot remember) used to warn that use of the stuff just once would void their warranty.
If you read the package of any chlorine bleach you will see the words "corrosive" because that is what the stuff can do. LCB can and will harm many types of metal such as some forms of stainless steel and so forth. Front loading washers often have SS inner and or outer tubs. Modern front loaders also have a wide array of sensors between the tubs that can have metal parts that are subject to harm caused by bleach. Some brands of SS sinks sold here advised against using cleaners containing bleach (chlorine) routinely. This advice comes because most cleanser and more and more cleaning products sold in the USA are loaded with LCB. American top loading washing machines OTHO usually never had sensors between the tubs and the latter were made from vitreous porcelain/enameled steel which in theory is not harmed by LCB. Long as the surface is not damaged or chipped to expose the underlying metal things should be fine. In any case both for top and front loading machines have gone to plastic inner and or outer tubs. This fiberglass or whatever is not harmed by LCB. Then all you need worry about is the sensors. European washing machine makers from Miele on down threw up their hands in defeat trying to convince American housewives and others *not* to use LCB. Now all if not most washers from that side of the pond sold here not only allow/recommend LCB but provide a space in dispenser for it to be used. | ||
| Post# 703954 , Reply# 39 9/18/2013 at 21:43 (3,865 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E) | ||
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Better Be Specific, Dear:
Just in case anyone is wondering what will neutralize chlorine bleach, the short answer is: Hydrogen peroxide.
I'm saying this because it's possible to do yourself some real mischief if you start thinking your way through the problem. LCB is a base, and acids counteract bases, so a handy acid should do the trick, right? This reasoning has led many a person to the vinegar bottle, and the result has been chemical pneumonia or worse from the toxic gas produced when bleach hits vinegar. Or vice versa. The reaction may not be harmful if concentrations of the chemicals are low and ventilation is good, but why fool around with a combination used to make deadly chlorine gas in a couple of world wars? So, hydrogen peroxide. Not vinegar, mmkay? | ||
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Post# 703956 , Reply# 40 9/18/2013 at 22:03 (3,865 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Would Still Go With A Sour (Acid) | ||
| Post# 703960 , Reply# 41 9/18/2013 at 22:23 (3,865 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas) | ||
I'll use it to wash the car, or something, | ||
| Post# 703982 , Reply# 42 9/19/2013 at 01:09 (3,865 days old) by stan (Napa CA) | ||
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Harley
Thanks for thinking of that, I dought this stuff has the strength, but will take your advice, and not wash the car with it LOL.
Laundress, your last two posts here where spot on! You were at your best with the explainations. I appreciate how well worded they were, and glad you dropped in on this one. The laundry sour is something I have always thought should be available to the average consumer, and not left to " fend for themselves" and should be on the shelf next to the LCB. Clorox would do well to make there own version, to be used after the use of LCB. When I worked in Dry Cleaning, laundry sour had to be used even when LCB wasn't used, just to remove/ neutralize the residue from the strong detergents. If someone in the back had forgotten to use the sour, the shirt presser would be the first to see it, as the hot press would tell on them! The whole load would have to be re rinsed with sour. | ||
| Post# 703991 , Reply# 43 9/19/2013 at 04:32 (3,864 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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Launderess....
I think some of the things you say are just your thoughts.. For example, the fact of the heaters, well, today many, many good water heaters still make water 160°F-170°F, according to what I could see in brochures... Distance from water heater and heat loss: It is okay what you say, but that's why pipes are insulated, regarding heat loss in the machine, that also possible and it happens,of course, but I think water will never loose more than 20°c in such circumstances nor in the short 15 to 18 minutes that toploader agitator machines require to get the laundry clean, moreover as I could see, in most of occasions,in many house laundry areas were and are historically located near water heaters just for this reason, they got water more hot being near them, there're exceptonal cases where you can find washer and dryer very far from heater...but principally it is so. Regarding certain stains that would get more "setted up" than how it is originally, I mean with a direct hot fill, that's a true statement, one I recall is blood, but such stains gets out (at least for me) perefectly as the wash proceed.. I almost never made a cool prewash. Prewash in European machines is required, for heavily soiled loads as you say, it removes the "biggest" part of dirt before starting the wash...that's a universal procedure usually made for the same reasons in both the machines types... Regarding oxy bleaches in detergents, not sure of the times you refer to... But I don't think that there were just a few...another was All powder for example and then others I know.. Of course if you talk about earlier ages than 60s it was rare to find perborate,and that was everywhere.... Such stuff was called abd claimed by detergents makers on packages with names like : "bleach action"..."bleach powder" but that was it. Regarding Chlorine bleach affecting the detergent, it of course affects Enzymes (kills them) and nutralize effect of OBs, also true it would get the laundry white and remove the same way enzymatic stains..so for those who preferred adding chlorine for various reasons that was fine anyway as it worked or did what the detergent for various reasons could not make..and that's why infact as you say it was suggested and still is nowadays suggested to add it durng the last minutes of the wash.. I completely agree with the speech of Chlorine left in clothes..it's really hard to get it off of clothes...in some circumstances infact, when not completely rinsed it may give the opposite effect during both automatic or line drying.. A garment not well rinsed from chlorine both for the action of heat of the dryer and sun in line drying would get yellowed.. Weakening of fabrics treated with bleach is well known fact for me...as I said and I'll keep sayng. Again, regarding water heaters and fact that americans are not that bothered to wash at hot temperatures, well, that's your find, mine are different... True, many don't care nowadays, not like older people used (younger people infact), but not all, nor I think the most.. And regarding the use of bleach as they're wedded to it, well, I think it is partially true, and that's makes sense when you speak of people that tried everything and then gets back to bleach as their conditions, for the most disparate reasons, can't make work other stuff... But, not for the most... if for the most bleach would be the answer to everything, then they would not care to have detergents that makes the work of the bleach...they would just produce and seek for simple soap-like stuff, without all those dfferent OBs, enzymes and indeed bleaching agents... As you can see some of your finds are pretty different from what I could see... But I fully agree with some of your statements... About bleach in european front loaders: Still find crazy that SOME machines would get ruined by bleach. Regardless sensors, even in machines sold in Italy back then and today with the "sensors" would be perfectly okay to use bleach in... Otherwise they would not make machines with automatic bleaching cycle... So I don't really get this... Bleach is corrosive, sure it is, but not that much... a washer if it is a serious one should handle it, no matter how many sensors "fuzzy" or whatever... From what I know reading older manuals of AEG machines and others that had nothing but a temperature sensor and a normal pressure water level sensor...yet even there they stated you must not to use bleach...and so like for new they stated that for other older models, no difference, no "techlogical" matter.. the same was for the less electronic and more mechanical ones you could find... Indeed, for most italian machines it was and still is perfectly okay... even the ones with the most "sofisticated electronic trinkets"... So IMO they're not serious machines in that sense also... Sandy: Duchessa??? LOL Rather Duca, don't you dare! LOL I live in a condo with central heating, this means we have a large heater that heats water for the whole condo. I pay rates based on consume of liters, I have to check well how much money it cost me for cubic liter... But, the bill arrives every two months and the cost of forniture is pretty high, but not too much... You see, my granma for examples lived in a taller condo than mine, an attic at 14 floor, there water would come at 120°F, and because she lived in an attic even less, infact for her maytag she had installed an accumulatory gas heater just for it.... (you're often not allowed to have gas water heaters when you've centrals, some regulations prohibit this, but I would not give a damn)... My granma paid almost as much as me for her hot water..but her was less hotter.. The average hot water in apts here is of 130°f-150°c f in central heaters buildings...at least this is in my town.. For me is a normal water hotness the one I get, slightly more than the average yes but good to be otherwise I'd have the need to have installed another gas heater for my laundry... We pay for the liters we use, so it means that when my granma needed a greater flow of hot water to have it the temp she wanted (so hot water counter meter numbers would count more liters used) with my temperature I could use less flow and mix it with cold and have the same temperature using less hot water,simply hotter... My bill is pretty high, but no more than it was the one of my grandma and not that much of the average... The heater in my condo is not run by the condo, but by a gas, fuel and heating company.. And we recently have had the heater changed as the old one started giving problems. Now, the most of newer apartment complex opted for individual heating with wall type heaters/furnaces as so everyone can get the water at the temperature he desires and deciced whenever to run the radiators or not and at which temperature,paying just gas bills.. Other older apartments whenever didn't have a central hot water system had both simple gas or electric accumulatory/static heaters or instant gas ones ( in italian called: Boiler/scaldabagno) that would produce water almot boiling infact... Now the electric ones mostly disappeared to leave space to gas ones and especially intsant gas ones... Nobody ever complained in my condo about water being too hot, rather is common in other buildings having people complaining that is not hot enough.. As long as you pay for hot water for liters you use is good to have water coming the hottest possible, especially when cost are standardized for about everyone... If we paid less per liter then I would gladly accept the proposal of turning heater to a lower temperature and have installed a gas heater for my washer.. But since we pay that much I'm happy this way... At the farm my father has a large wood-heater that produce hot water for sanitary use and heats water for radiators..the maximum temperature you can set is of 176°f (80°c).... For my new house there (in the other building of the farm), we are thinking to opt for one of those wood stoves/kitchens that would heat water for sanitary and house heating plus being able to bake in it's oven and cook on it...and put also a wall heater/furnace for summer and in the eventuality the stove would go out of service... The name of the product is Bosky, Thermorossi. www.thermorossi.com/ita/legna.php... | ||
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Post# 704013 , Reply# 44 9/19/2013 at 07:44 (3,864 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Listen Bub
What temperatures American water heaters will make versus what comes out of the taps are two different things. For years Americans have been advised to limit the temp of "hot" water to 120F, both to conserve energy and to protect children, the elderly and others against possible scald burns. Yes, some homes do choose to crank up their hot water to 140F or above, but that will depend on many factors including what sort of energy used to heat water and how much it costs.
Not every home has insulated hot water pipes, indeed I don't recall a single home having them in our area growing up nor have I see one ever. And no, not all American homes have their laundry areas remotely near the source of hot water. Washing machines can be in basements, garages, off car ports, in or off kitchens and so forth in private homes. Maybe the water heater is next to the washer, maybe it is not. Much depends upon when and how the home was designed and or constructed. Many housewives today and others are moving their washing machines and dryers up from basements to first floors. They are certainly not going to move the water heater upstairs as well. Just look at some American television shows such as Bewitched (washer and dryer in a nook in kitchen), and the Brady Bunch (laundry room off the kitchen near maid's bedroom) and you won't see a water heater in sight. Then there are those who live in multi-family homes and or apartment buildings. They certainly do not often have water heaters in their apartments (though some do, again it depends upon several factors), thus hot water must come up from the basement or ground floor usually where the central heater/boiler is located. Pre-wash cycles: Were not universal in American top loading machines historically or now. Just look at the various controls and or manuals posted through this group for top loading washers, especially vintage. Of course such cycles did exist as did versions such as the "Super Wash" on Whirlpool machines. But again this was not universal across all brands and models. What Americans call "hot" water for washing widely varies, but it is usually between 120F to 140F. What temps the machine will give and or allow is another matter. Don't know where you have been shopping for American detergents and or whom you've been speaking to regarding laundry habits here; but am here to tell you LCB is big for whites and colourfast laundry. Shelves in supermarkets and shops are full of the stuff and you can see persons pouring LCB into washers by the cup full at Laundromats. No, most Americans do not see a contradiction between using lots of LCB and TOL detergents with enzymes and OBAs. Indeed one has nothing to do with the other. I've even seen persons using LCB when Tide with Bleach was the detergent. In essence adding oxygen and chlorine bleach to the same wash load. Many of the attendants at Laundromats do this all the time. It's not my laundry nor my job so keep well buttoned, but it does explain the pitiful state some of some service wash. Americans are also wedded to LCB for its perceived sanitizing properties. Clorox used to make a huge deal about this and still does, even though not all versions of their chlorine bleach are registered disinfectants. This post was last edited 09/19/2013 at 10:37 | ||
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Post# 704040 , Reply# 45 9/19/2013 at 10:09 (3,864 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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@Laundress..... | ||
| Post# 704042 , Reply# 46 9/19/2013 at 10:41 (3,864 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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Listen dear.
I'd be glad if you'd remind me the exact line where I did write that in ALL of the homes laundry areas are loacated near water heaters, I have said in most of occasions, in many houses, that to me means often, but absolutely not ALWAYS..
There's a huge difference between the two... One is total BS, the other is not.. They were historically OFTEN placed near the water heater..or in it's proximity in the house.. I get though different thing is always more today, in modern days as you say laundry locations are moving from the usual locations they "generally" had in the past to other corners of the house and in most of these occasions it happens to be far from the heater...I'm not surprised at all... Anyway that's a secondary part of the speech, not so much relative or important and unless you live in a castle-like house I think you'd not get that much of heat loss... but anyway this thing is just a minimal part of the general speech, for how I see things.. Just wanted to point a few things out.. Prewash: Prewash was a TOL feature often, that's correct, also true that a pre-wash was easily made with a rinse cycle and spin and then manual adavancing to wash, and that's what people did... Detergents: Never spoke of contradiction, if you got it this way it is not what I meant...I just said that since, for disparate reasons, one would find that a detergent, product (new or old) does not work, thenwould rather use the "proven bleach" to get the job done, and that's what happened and happens, and that's what one would do a priori when knows that such detergent will not bring stuff white and or not get out a certain stains, here is how it will soon become an habit to use bleach, so this if one misses the conditions such as for example water enough hot, a bad dirty white load that turns clean and nice without bleach will never happen today, nor tomorrow, nor likely even using the most rated of detergents available. Most people do not even know what stuff is inside detergents, they just think: "the stuff removes these stains, no it does not" and in case they knew it would not they would rather go grabbing bleach and use it, and would soo become an habit, which is surely easier rather than wondering if there's something else they can do about it and so then do it... unfortunately sometimes as I said, is not possible to do something else even if one would like to.. so when I say: "It's easier to grab a bottle of bleach" I mean it's actually easier and in some occasions/cases unfortunately is the only thing you could do for too many reasons, that includes even financial limitations. Sometimes happens also that something else could be easily done but user's both don't know of or don't care of..or it's too lazy..etc.... BUT This does not means that in both the cases said detergent would not have done the job the same way, but in different conditions, and so without the bleach... And when I say that I will never understand people that use bleach for cleaning I take for granted I'm not speaking of the ones that have no way to do otherwise for the reasons above,but I'm referring to the lazy one not willing to do otherwise even if they could..I refer to people not seing their laundry disintegrating wash after wash without caring of it, I'm refer to ones keeping using bleach like a banshee for every load that has a few stains when there would be products that may cost a buck more, but would do the same job of their so loved bleach.. That's what I'm talking about...and there're alot out there! Said this, even here in Italy shelves are full and you could see some do that in laundromats and at home, keep in count that often in laundromats temperatures are too low and kept so purposedly to lower running cost...then shorter washes in coin operated type machines, especially coin-op front loaders, are not what I'd personally call clean...and here you'd want and need the bleach. But I know it wanted to be an example.. it does not matter commercial or not... I see that nowadays, there people not caring anymore of hot washes, especially younger people you know, the ones that always less have teached the basis of housekeeping by their mothers, but that's the same everywhere... but there is a difference when it comes to talk of europe and laundry and temperatures... in europe you find guidelines for laundry, you set a specific temperature and that is..you cannot escape from that...simple: 30-40°c Colored darks and wollens, 60°c : Whites and colorfast 95°c: Boilwash... Hard go wrong, the temperature you set, the temperature you get.. Temperature knobs have all these setting: 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 95.. In USA you have 3 settings: Cold, warm, Hot... so who is gonna tell someone if the hot setting actually will have enough hot water coming out the tap? Who is gonna say them this water is hot enough, no it is not... They're like: "I set hot, it should be hot" even if water getting out is actually barely warm. Here is why the conception of hot wash soon gets distorted, forgotten, like it's happening always more among youngers..they're not teached anymore... So here they will likely use bleach like a banshee as nothing or very few would get acceptably clean and white.. So here I say that bleach is also often used when there're not the conditions to have detergent working or doing it's "full" job, one case are the machine that could not fill water enough hot or have enough hot washes, of course way more differently than europe where they heat water theirself, such conditions are of course likely to be in the USA and that's why the bleach has more popularity also, as there're some that can't get the conditions to make a decently clean laundry without it..so it is actually needed from some folks more than is averagely in europe, but still not for the most just for some...largely yes, but not from all nor the most..and not all the times.. BTW..what americans call hot wash matter.. well who knows it probably vary from area to area the consideration about how much how washes has to be hot... so even bleach use would vary from area to area... As I was saying, the same way even here in Italy and elsewhere in Europe like Spain or Greece, Romania ecc there're some people who would use bleach in laundry as well, this for many reasons, some do that convinced is the only thing that sanitizes, others says is the only thing that gets stains out, others says that it's the only thing making stuff white...not the most even here, but some probably less than in USA, okay, but they would...to make a percentage something like the 30% of italians...spain who knows, gues the same, little more or little less.. I can get that in Spain there's the same conception as Italy. So you easily get (and I give it for granted) that even in countries where there're the most of front loaders, so your beloved european front loaders boiling washers, there're people who would still use bleach, this let you realize that it is also a cultural-habit reason for some, then it strictly depend on other factors also, like detergents quality... etc... So matter of the temperature is just one of the many, while it is important is not the only one...it's rather a blend of matter including cultural and social ones. We could push this conversation so far.....and probably would never end.. Looks like also some of my words are always taken wrongly...not for what I actually mean.. But again this is not the first nor I think the last time that something like this happens..and nor the first or the last one that we will disagree on something.. You can't always agree with someone.. This post was last edited 09/19/2013 at 11:15 | ||
| Post# 704198 , Reply# 48 9/20/2013 at 05:03 (3,863 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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And............ | ||
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Post# 704218 , Reply# 49 9/20/2013 at 08:05 (3,863 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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well theres always gonna be someone going to extremes.....
but for some things, other than laundry, bleach can work wonders, as mentioned, for treating skin from poison ivy and such, a simple solution applied to the area can help cleanse reduce the oils.... Liquid Tide is good for this as well....I had poison ivy once, treated with Tide as the doc recommended, gone in a little more than a day....a lot better than calamine lotion, applied for days.... | ||
| Post# 704221 , Reply# 50 9/20/2013 at 08:11 (3,863 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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| Post# 704223 , Reply# 51 9/20/2013 at 08:26 (3,863 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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Anyway, it was meant for a laugh......of course bleach can and is used for other purposes and even for some personal care use and treatment... | ||
| Post# 704287 , Reply# 52 9/20/2013 at 16:41 (3,863 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina) | ||
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Bleach Water Bath You've got to be freakin kidding me??!!!!!! :O lolll | ||
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Post# 704337 , Reply# 54 9/20/2013 at 22:17 (3,863 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.) |
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I see | ||
| Post# 704357 , Reply# 55 9/20/2013 at 23:45 (3,863 days old) by stan (Napa CA) | ||
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Bleach bath! My strange addiction! | ||
| Post# 704589 , Reply# 56 9/22/2013 at 09:28 (3,861 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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dding oxydol to the bath....LOL | ||
| Post# 707863 , Reply# 57 10/8/2013 at 00:21 (3,846 days old) by stan (Napa CA) | ||
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Hi all
Thought I'd comment on this detergent after using it, on, and off basis, for a while now (trying to give it a fair shot)
As someone said up thread "it's not terrible" but dose not meet expectations most here would require. I did find that if I spiked it with a little washing soda, and borax, it preformed much better, and noticed a little more sudsing (but not a lot) The addition of STPP, and some non chlorine bleach instead, would most likely put a little more hair on its chest! So if someone has any of these other additives (think most of us do) you can make it work for moderately soiled laundry. I also spiked one load with a Tbls of finely grated Lye Soap, the two together, appeared to achieve decent chemistry, and got some good shifting. This was on a med load (T.L). about 10 gallons per cycle. | ||
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Post# 707995 , Reply# 58 10/8/2013 at 15:47 (3,845 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Borax and Washing Soda
Are alkaline builders which in theory should improve the performance of any liquid detergent. By this we mean you are not only increasing the pH of the wash water but each bring other "goodies" to the laundry party that pure liquid detergents alone normally do not. This is partially the idea behind those "boost" pods from P&G and others. In addition to enzymes they contain oxygen bleach and IIRC small amounts of soda.
Soap in addition to being alkaline in solution brings various other properties as well. So there you are then. | ||
| Post# 708048 , Reply# 59 10/8/2013 at 20:45 (3,845 days old) by stan (Napa CA) | ||
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Thanks Dear | ||
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