Thread Number: 4869
Poor Speed Queen "HomeStyle" Line |
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Post# 107672   2/3/2006 at 20:57 (6,628 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Latest CR issue on washers and dryers is out and the SQ front loader came in dead LAST amoung all washers, even behind Roper. Apparently CR marked the unit down for short cycle times, washing results, and some other things. Will post more once have a chance to read my entire issue/article. SQ dryers didnt' fare much better either. Alliance Laundry Systems had better pull their socks up and get on the ball. Launderess |
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Post# 107752 , Reply# 4   2/4/2006 at 08:17 (6,627 days old) by the7 ()   |   | |
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varenovator As stated in SQ website, SQ has one model with internal heater. |
Post# 107843 , Reply# 7   2/4/2006 at 19:41 (6,627 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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I'm willing to bet the farm that all SQ needs to do is to at LEAST double the 9-minute washing time and their score will skyrocket into competitive territory. I don't believe CR has anything against short cycles; in fact they generally point out which dishwashers clean well without taking 2-1/2 hours. But if the clothes don't come out clean, well that's the bottom line, isn't it? Can you imagine a Mom of several dirt-and stain-magnets getting a FL SQ and having clothes come out unclean? I'd be pissed. |
Post# 107848 , Reply# 9   2/4/2006 at 19:54 (6,627 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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jimmyb-- No one has wanted to see SQ return to the home market more than me. I've always been a big fan. I especially admire them for not jumping on the syper-fast agitation bandwagon in the TL'ers. As for noise and cleaning issues, CR judges every machine against the best-performing machine they've tested; Currently, that would be the Neptune TL (tops in cleaning) and the Miele FL'er (quietest). Again, all SQ has to do is add the option for a much longer wash (at least 18 mins.) and even people who wash heavily soiled loads (like me) and who don't pretreat (like me) will get clean clothes from their SQ, too! :)
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Post# 107855 , Reply# 10   2/4/2006 at 21:00 (6,627 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)   |   | |
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I imagine with the glued on front control panel and microchip circuits they could probably offer an upgrade kit pretty cheaply. All it would take is a reprogramed chip replacement and a new control panel to get more wash time. |
Post# 107867 , Reply# 11   2/4/2006 at 22:23 (6,627 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)   |   | |
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I cant take CR seriously. They once downgraded a (T/L) washer years ago because the washer did not have a recessed lip around the top and any water on it would drip to the floor. By that logic older Maytags would be bad. They also hated Euro DW-ers because of excessive cycle times and non self-cleaning food filters. Now they have certainly changed their tune. When I sold appliances for Sears part-time after a full-time day on the accounting job, the BEST customers to F--- with were the ones with Consumer Report's under their arms. They usually had the least amount of sense of all. Then there was the time the customer had a 23.50 inch wide space and wanted a 24.00 inch machine. I would simply put all that in the *comments* section of the invoice. Delivery knew me personally and would call to thank me for making their jobs easier. But all that is another story, for another thread! |
Post# 107954 , Reply# 15   2/5/2006 at 09:24 (6,626 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)   |   | |
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Post# 107989 , Reply# 18   2/5/2006 at 14:14 (6,626 days old) by tgodel ()   |   | |
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Consumers Union has become way, way out of touch in the last five years. It's been said before, it will be said again, but I just don't take Consumer Reports very seriously any more. --Trip |
Post# 108089 , Reply# 19   2/5/2006 at 20:35 (6,626 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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I have never found CR to be totally open to new ways of washing and fairly weighted testing results!! I have had the commercial SQ Horizon FL in my tenants unit for 6 years now. It is installed on the third floor of my house. If any machine was a problem it would be unbearable on the top floor. I hardly know when they are doing laundry and they do ALOT of laundry. I have to empty that coin box every 6 mos. they do so much. Also they are very picky about clean clothes and they stuff the thing full and never complain about how clean the items are. You can bet there was WEEKLY cursing when I had the Staber 1000 dud up there, she HATED that machine along with me! In my experience it has been an outstanding performer. |
Post# 108141 , Reply# 21   2/6/2006 at 05:34 (6,625 days old) by the7 ()   |   | |
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jetcone, Like to know the model no of your commercial SQ Horizon FL. Is it more robust than the home style ones? |
Post# 108175 , Reply# 23   2/6/2006 at 09:46 (6,625 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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While I still defend CR, I also have questions about their reporting. Why, for instance, did it take 2 years of testing the Calypso before there was a mention of how much linting/tangling was happening? Getting back to the original theme of this thread, I re-read the testing results of the SQ FL'er. Everything looked pretty good except for the washing score. I can't believe that with all the FL'ers out there, no one at SQ thought "Gee, maybe we should offer the option of a longer wash." Sorry, but I think it's completely indefensible of them to charge $1400 for a machine that doesn't clean well, not because of inherent design flaws, but because no one thought to add 15 minutes to a wash cycle. You wouldn't HAVE to opt for a longer wash---in fact, I wash a lot of lightly soiled loads on my Frigidaire's 30-minute QUICK cycle, which has a 6 minute wash and only 2 rinses, with great results. But I'd hate to see what one of my uber-stained loads of kitchen towels, etc. would look when they emerged from that cycle. And there ain't NO WAY I'm going to pretreat every stain on every towel, bar mop, dish rag, chef's apron, napkin and tablecloth. I'd use a whole container of pretreater for every load! I pretreat NOTHING. I use a medium dose of powdered Tide CW, 1/3 cup of chlorine bleach, a bit of Downy to break down the suds in the last rinse, and set the cycle for the longest (18-minute) wash, using temp-controlled 65-degree water. No extra rinses or pre-wash/soak cycles. Occasionally, if the load is a Bob Load, I'll reset the machine and add an extra 10 minutes of wash time. Perfectly clean results. All stains removed, clothes rinsed well. One should expect nothing less from a washer in the 21st century. |
Post# 108211 , Reply# 24   2/6/2006 at 15:25 (6,625 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Ok, read the entire CR review on W&D last night, and here is my take on things. First, this has to be the most piss poor review of appliances CR has ever given. One may write to CR if time permits and let them know this. Review does give any information as to what the test load consisted of,what sort of soils/stains were used on test garments, and so on. In fact the entire "review" of washers takes up about 1 and 1/3 page with parts of those pages showing features. Cycle chosen was "normal" but what that is varies by washer IMHO. Here is what CR stays about SQ units: "Short isn't always sweet. Odds are, you've used Speed Queen's commercial machines if you've ever visited a laundromat. But that hard-wroking heritage did not help its consumer models in our tests." "The front loading Speed Queen washer's 35 minute regular cycle proved too short to clean our test loads thoroughly. A thermostat instead of the usual moisture sensor also accounts for the matching dryer's unimpressive performance. Added gripe: control knobs for both that turn in just one direction." Now has ANYONE used a washer with quasi mechianical timers that turned more than one way? Review does not speak to the fact a SQ front loader is built vastly better than the mainly plastic Kenmore "HE2" series CR raves over. Rankings: HE Front Loaders Only: Kenmore Elite HE4T Whirlpool Duet HT Frigidaire LTF2940E (Lowes version) Kenmore HE3 Maytag Neptune MAH8700 Bosch Nexxt Premium LG WM1814C Siemans Ultra Sense Whirlpool Duet GHW9150P LG WM2277H Maytag Neptune MAH9700 Frigidaire FTF2140E GE WBVH6240F Kenmore HE2 4646 Frigidaire Gallery GLTR1670 Naytag Neptune MAH6500A Miele Touchtronic W113 Asko W6021 Speed Queen CTS90AWN |
Post# 108213 , Reply# 25   2/6/2006 at 15:37 (6,625 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)   |   | |
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Post# 108216 , Reply# 26   2/6/2006 at 15:39 (6,625 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Some current models of Whirlpool/Kenmore/KA have timers that turn both ways. GE machines with mechanical controls that are really electronic turn both directions. But as has been said, it is idiotic for *that* point to downgrade a rating. I'm thinking that CR mostly nowadays goes by retailer descriptions and listings of features when they buy the test machines, as compared to testing the machines thoroughly themselves to determine the features and capabilities. CR has repeatedly said F&P washers do not have ATC ... when we know they do. |
Post# 108238 , Reply# 28   2/6/2006 at 17:10 (6,625 days old) by the7 ()   |   | |
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Among these FL, my favorable 3 are the LAST 3. |
Post# 108250 , Reply# 29   2/6/2006 at 18:23 (6,625 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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The Miele and Asko got very good overall scores, receiving a 63 and 61 respectively. By contrast, the highest score for a TL (Whirlpool Gold GSQ9669) was 61...which also garnered a very good rating for gentleness, which I found surprising. (I believe they test for gentleness by throwing in a bunch of squares of open-weave fabric with no hemmed edges. The more threads pulled out of place, the less gentle the washing action.) The only area in which the Miele and Asko didn't receive a very good or excellent rating was for capacity. In fact, the Miele was rated as the quietest machine of the all tested models, both TL and FL. By contrast, the equivalent of my Frigidaire received only a good rating for washing, good for capacity and good for gentleness. As with a broken record, I repeat: Just because a model is 17th on the list doesn't mean it's a bad machine which was poorly rated. The point-spread between the top-rated FL model (Kenmore HE4T, scoring a 79) and the 18th on the list (Asko W6021, scoring a 61) is really not that much on a scale of 100. Except for the fact I prefer a machine with greater capacity, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to purchase either a Miele or an Asko. Granted, the 19th model was the SQ, which received only a 31 due to it's poor washing score. Once SQ takes care of that, their machine will score much, much higher. I have NO defense for their petty comment about the SQ's dial turning in only one direction. It was a ridiculous criticism. But come one, kids; SQ is charging $1400 for a machine that doesn't clean well. Who deserves the criticism, here? If it was a GE, we'd all be bitching up a storm about it. |
Post# 108281 , Reply# 30   2/6/2006 at 23:52 (6,624 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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I got my paper copy of the March 06 CR today in the mail. So now I can see the actual ratings. It is a bit mystifying that Asko and Miele placed so low, purely on the basis of capacity. Oh well. I also made a trip to the local Sears today, to see the Oasis. There was an empty spot where the washer once stood. The saleslady said they had gotten in 500 machines, and they all sold very quickly. But she hadn't heard back from any customers as to cleaning performance. I note that CR says they found the Oasis to clean "competently" although it arrived too late to be included in their complete testing. I was also interested in how the GE FL fared. Although it scored very good on washing, energy efficiency, and noise, it suffered with regard to capacity and gentleness. I think it also got dinged for its supposedly long cycle time, but I think perhaps CR misread the display, mistaking 1 hour 5 minutes for 105 minutes? I'm also concerned that CR probably uses the default "normal" or "regular" wash cycle on which to base all its testing. I think it would be better to do a more thorough evaluation, and see just what each machine can do, maximum, in terms of parameters such as washing efficiency and gentleness. I'd be willing to bet that the Miele and Asko would rate much higher in terms of washing efficiency if their high temp long cycle options were chosen. And so on. At best CR is a snapshot of a slice across the center of each machine's capabilities - but it probably doesn't give much of a clue as to which machines are capabable of far better results than the average machine. |
Post# 108283 , Reply# 32   2/7/2006 at 00:52 (6,624 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 108334 , Reply# 35   2/7/2006 at 11:50 (6,624 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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The7-- OK, that explains why CR mentioned the unidirectional control knob. Like most people here, we were under the impression they were complaining about a mechanical cycle timer which only turned one way. If it's only a cycle selector, then it is odd it only turns in one direction, as most other models I've toyed with turn in both directions. Either way, it's still a petty complaint. Since the SQ TL has a mechanical timer, I believe most of us believed the FL had the same. Interesting. Thanks for the clarification! |
Post# 108359 , Reply# 36   2/7/2006 at 14:07 (6,624 days old) by the7 ()   |   | |
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Sorry for the typing errors in my post. "solid" and "soild" should all mean "soil" or "soiled". |
Post# 108374 , Reply# 37   2/7/2006 at 16:05 (6,624 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Spoke with that nice man from Alliance Laundry/SQ before the holidays and he stated the following changes would be coming to the SQ front loaders: Larger door opening More "user friendly" controls and IIRC addition of "rinse & spin" cycles along with perhaps some others. When SQ first began the PR blitz/launch of their residential laundry line, had the chance to speak with this same gentleman and told him about THS and this forum. Also bent his ear to give him a "housewife" view of their front loader verus the competition. Had no idea the man would actually visit either site, but he did and does so every now and then to keep up on the buzz. All suggestions (mine and others) were brought up at product development meetings, the results we shall see in the 2007 model line. As for the comment another poster made that SQ FL washers do not clean well for the money, that is a load of flannel. Of those whom have purchased the units, have not heard one complaint about laundry results. With proper loading, chemicals, and the mechanical action supplied by the washer, long cycle times really are not needed. Yes, it would be nice to have a longer cycle than 9 minutes for normal, but nothing stops one from stoppping the washer and restarting it again to wash longer. Same thing many, many owners of mechanical top and front loading washing machines have done for ages. L. |
Post# 108377 , Reply# 38   2/7/2006 at 16:49 (6,624 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 108418 , Reply# 41   2/7/2006 at 21:16 (6,624 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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