Thread Number: 49267
White King
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Post# 712987   11/3/2013 at 15:16 (3,798 days old) by StrongEnough78 (California)        

strongenough78's profile picture
After many years of having to use laundromat washers most of which give warm water on the hot setting and all of which give only a 9 minute wash time, I noticed my whites were looking quite dingy. I've tried different detergents with and without oxygen bleach and even used Arm and Hammer Washing Soda. There was slight improvements but not drastic. A couple years back I did laundry at a friends house equipped with a water softener and noticed a major improvement. So recently I've been curious to try White King so I finally bought a box. Washed some whites in the hottest water possible and followed the directions on the box. I must say I'm in love with this stuff. My socks came out completely clean and much whiter than before. I can't wait to try it in a regular washer with a full wash cycle. I highly recommend it!




Post# 712990 , Reply# 1   11/3/2013 at 15:21 (3,798 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
IIRC White King Water Softener

launderess's profile picture
Contains phosphates.

Easy test is to take a teaspoon or less and dissolve in a glass of warm water. If the water remains clear more than likely the stuff has phosphates.

Or you simply could just read the label. *LOL*


Post# 712993 , Reply# 2   11/3/2013 at 15:44 (3,798 days old) by StrongEnough78 (California)        

strongenough78's profile picture
Lol Laundress! Actually it contains no phosphates. Which is weird cause a couple of years ago I bought a bucket of stpp which helped but never produced results like this stuff. Maybe I wasn't using enough of it.

Post# 712996 , Reply# 3   11/3/2013 at 16:09 (3,798 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Really?

launderess's profile picture
Post# 713004 , Reply# 4   11/3/2013 at 16:33 (3,798 days old) by Mich (Hells Kitchen - New York)        
Packaged Water Softners...

mich's profile picture
Available in Supermarkets (Rain Drops, Calgon, White King) don't contain Phosphates, and haven't in Years.

Calgon is Sodium Sesquicarbonate, a variant of Sodium Carbonate, and supposedly complexes just like STPP or Sodium Hexmopolyphosphate would.

Even in the Late 70's Calgon had special formulas, that were Phosphate Free for areas "limiting" phosphates. Although, Thanks to the 1980's & 90's bans, and the Automatic Dishwashing Phosphate Bans, there are no more phosphate laden Booster products on store shelves. Even in states without any bans, whatsoever.

Unless of Course, were talking about NOS ;)


Post# 713013 , Reply# 5   11/3/2013 at 17:23 (3,798 days old) by Mich (Hells Kitchen - New York)        
Vern

mich's profile picture
I'm going to assume that there's a decent sized Mexican Population somewhere close to you, and with that, you probably have some Mexican Markets or Bodegas arround.

Look for Some Phosphate'd Ariel or Foca. I think you'll be shocked on how well they work, even in California'n Hard Water ;)


Post# 713034 , Reply# 6   11/3/2013 at 19:14 (3,798 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

I wonder if this stuff is sold in Texas? I've never seen it here.

Post# 713046 , Reply# 7   11/3/2013 at 20:27 (3,798 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
We had

stan's profile picture
a thread about White King water softener a while back.
Somehow I got the impression that it had phosphates in it? Think it was due to the MSDS. However what's listed on the box
(washing soda) and the weight of the box, make me think it dose not contain phosphates.
I called the Company, and explained that the MSDS said one thing, but the label on the box said another! (Think it was made by Sun)
I never did get a straight answer from them.

One of those things that I left as a mystery!


Post# 713053 , Reply# 8   11/3/2013 at 20:50 (3,798 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)        
Yep!

danemodsandy's profile picture
Yes, White King is made by the same manufacturer that makes Sun detergents - Huish.

This probably positions it as a "value" alternative to Calgon - which, trust me, they ain't givin' away.

Every Huish product I've ever used was excellent value for money. I currently use their Cuddle Soft liquid fabric softener (gotta keep that Maytag softener dispenser useful!) and their Sun oxy powder.

Another virtue of Huish products is that they still make products in quieter scents, without the P & G stinky-poo fruit salad smells.


Post# 713061 , Reply# 9   11/3/2013 at 22:26 (3,798 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)        

supersuds's profile picture
Vintage (1960s?) box of White King I'm using.



Post# 713062 , Reply# 10   11/3/2013 at 22:26 (3,798 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)        

supersuds's profile picture
Back of the box indicates it is non-precipitating.



Post# 713063 , Reply# 11   11/3/2013 at 22:29 (3,798 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)        

supersuds's profile picture
And on the side, it says sodium sesquicarbonate. I'm not surprised, because it looks just like the old Calgon did. You have to be careful how much you use, too, because it softens do effectively any detergent with a tendency to foam up will really build up a head o' suds.

Post# 713065 , Reply# 12   11/3/2013 at 22:33 (3,798 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

Another virtue of Huish products is that they still make products in quieter scents, without the P & G stinky-poo fruit salad smells.

You must be referring to the wango-tango-mango scents P&G loves so much.


Post# 713069 , Reply# 13   11/3/2013 at 23:47 (3,798 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
John

stan's profile picture
Is the box heavy? Like washing soda?
Sodium sesquicarbonate is a mix of baking soda, and washing soda.. I think? If so, it would form a precipitate.
Wonder if back then, they used this, and STPP in the mix, and only mentioned the SS on the box?


Post# 713072 , Reply# 14   11/4/2013 at 01:02 (3,798 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)        

supersuds's profile picture
Stan, yes, it is heavy for its size...much like All or Dash were at the time.

I suspect you're right about it being a mix with STPP, because SS is definitely precipitating by itself. How else could they claim White King was non-precipitating?

Wikipedia says SS forms crystals, and you can see crystalline forms in the WK powder. That reminded me of the older Calgon that was available up to ten or so years ago, that was clearly marked as having phosphates. But Mich says it had SS, so the two ingredients must not be incompatible.


Post# 713074 , Reply# 15   11/4/2013 at 02:27 (3,798 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
Hi John

stan's profile picture
I had the same question a while back (if they interfered with each other)
From the answers I received, they don't! provided that their balanced by some type of percentage of one vs the other in the same mix.
Noticed your All Free/Clear powder in the photo. I've never tried it. How do you like it?


Post# 713077 , Reply# 16   11/4/2013 at 03:54 (3,798 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        
Current Ingredients:

mrboilwash's profile picture
Sodium Carbonate
Sodium Chloride
Sodium Silicate
Sodium Polycarboxylate
Sodium Gluconate


CLICK HERE TO GO TO mrboilwash's LINK


Post# 713078 , Reply# 17   11/4/2013 at 04:09 (3,798 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Have Some Vintage Amway Water Softener

launderess's profile picture
That also contains phosphates and Sodium sesquicarbonate so the mixture must be or was fairly common.

Post# 713080 , Reply# 18   11/4/2013 at 04:22 (3,798 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

mrboilwash's profile picture
The combination of Phosphates and Sodium Sesquicarbonate was also found in Calgon Bath Beads. Don`t know if it`s still in production.
Have brought a package from a trip to the States some years ago, but never understood the idea of putting something alkaline into bath water.
My skin wasn`t fond of it either.


Post# 713085 , Reply# 19   11/4/2013 at 05:17 (3,798 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
All Soaps Are Alkaline To Some Extent

launderess's profile picture
So if you use that for bathing there you are then.



Post# 713096 , Reply# 20   11/4/2013 at 08:08 (3,798 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

mrboilwash's profile picture
Usually I don`t use soap, but bodywash which isn`t alkaline at all.
Soap has been OK for centuries but you don`t soak for an hour in "real soap" suds as you might do in a product for the bath tub.

But back on topic.
I thought of using the Calgon Bath Beads as a laundry booster but finally tossed it, because it also had mineral oil and who knows what else in it.

Could imagine the Sodium Polycarboxylate in White King to keep the washing soda from precipitating with hard water minerals.


Post# 713108 , Reply# 21   11/4/2013 at 10:33 (3,797 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)        
All Free/Clear powder

supersuds's profile picture
I like it pretty well, Stan. Seems like a more economical alternative to Tide. I do notice a bit of a chemical smell to laundry when it comes out of the washer, but it isn't noticeable once the clothes are dry.

Post# 713120 , Reply# 22   11/4/2013 at 11:38 (3,797 days old) by Mich (Hells Kitchen - New York)        
I've looked...

mich's profile picture

all over, but it's extremely hard to find, ALL powder, in any form in my area... Sad, I hear it's good stuff :) 

 

 


Post# 713141 , Reply# 23   11/4/2013 at 13:28 (3,797 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
Vern

stan's profile picture
Sorry to have left you out with all this, but how is it working out with the rest of your laundry? What detergent are you using with the White King? Are you still "in love" with this stuff?

Post# 713147 , Reply# 24   11/4/2013 at 13:51 (3,797 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

ll over, but it's extremely hard to find, ALL powder, in any form in my area... Sad, I hear it's good stuff :)

We find it at Walmart here, always stocked. $4.88 for a 40 load box. Not too badly priced, and it cleans very well.


Post# 713165 , Reply# 25   11/4/2013 at 15:22 (3,797 days old) by StrongEnough78 (California)        

strongenough78's profile picture
Hey sorry for the late reply. There is a Mexican supermarket chain here where I can get those detergents. I actually was using Ariel with phosphates a year ago. Results weren't bad but not as good as with the White King and I love the scent of the Ariel. Stan, I've used the White King on a few loads like towels and colored clothes with great results. Everything is much fresher smelling too. Oh and I'm using it with Gain powder. I use a half cup of White King and half the amount of detergent as per the instructions. I get a good amount of suds but not too much and the rinse water is crystal clear.

Post# 713172 , Reply# 26   11/4/2013 at 15:48 (3,797 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Calgon Bath Beads

launderess's profile picture
Well no, wouldn't recommend them for laundry. Aside from the scent and often colouring agents the stuff does contain skin softening agents.


All Calgon products grew out of the original CAL-cium g-ON-e formula (get it, CALGON), which was mainly a phosphate laden product used at first for softening water in steam boilers/engines (locomotives, ships, heating, etc...), then later dishes and laundry. Indeed the makers of Calgon touted it's ability to soften water and thus rinsing cleanly as hygienic for when doing foodservice ware including the military at the time.

As detergents replaced soaps for laundry and cleaning and diesel replaced steam Calgon had to find other uses. As many laundry and other cleaning products contained phosphates the need for a separate product such as Calgon was eliminated, again this hurt sales.

Enter Calgon bath beads and so forth for all the same reasons you'd soften wash water.

Have had many early packages of Calgon (in silver paper wrapped boxes) and one could use it for many personal care routines. From bathing to washing one's hair, anything that involved using soap with hard water.


Post# 713257 , Reply# 27   11/4/2013 at 21:18 (3,797 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
1/2cup !

stan's profile picture
You must be using a T.L !
It would be interesting to do Laundress's test with the glass of warm water, and compare it with ordinary washing soda, just for the off chance they've got something more going on in there!
If it is mostly washing soda, and your using a powdered detergent...combined, well, that's a lot of washing soda!
On the other hand, if it's working for you...

Keep us posted Vern.


Post# 713313 , Reply# 28   11/5/2013 at 02:59 (3,797 days old) by StrongEnough78 (California)        

strongenough78's profile picture
Yeah I only use top loaders when I wash clothes. I only use front load for big bulky items. I've used actual washing soda before and didn't get results like this. There must be something different between the two. When I get a chance and if I remember, I'll try the water test.

Post# 714511 , Reply# 29   11/11/2013 at 02:07 (3,791 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
Decided

stan's profile picture
to do Laundress's test with White King Water Softener.
What so you think...fairly clear!


Post# 714516 , Reply# 30   11/11/2013 at 03:44 (3,791 days old) by StrongEnough78 (California)        

strongenough78's profile picture
Looks a bit clear to me. I haven't had time to try that myself yet. Thanks for trying it Stan.

Post# 714525 , Reply# 31   11/11/2013 at 05:19 (3,791 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
Vern

stan's profile picture
I'll try It again with using a little more, just incase, and also a separate test with washing soda, and do a side by side.
Pics to follow.


Post# 714564 , Reply# 32   11/11/2013 at 10:20 (3,790 days old) by dirtybuck (Springfield, MO)        

The only two water softeners I've used in the past were "Blue" Rain Drops and Calgon. Church and Dwight now manufacture Rain Drops (the word "Blue" was removed), but I've not had any luck in finding it.

As for All, it's one that I use regularly (Surf is the other one I like). I'm using the Free and Clear liquid and Free and Clear Oxy for now. They seems like good enough detergents in getting the job done.

Even when they're on sale, I've shyed away from most of the P&G brands due to their price, but at times will pick up an occasional bottle of Era.

Her4e's a pic of the Rain Drops water softener box and a small blurb about it from the Arm & Hammer website..


CLICK HERE TO GO TO dirtybuck's LINK


Post# 714576 , Reply# 33   11/11/2013 at 12:16 (3,790 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
Here is

stan's profile picture
the side by side comparisons, the one on the right is the White King, one on left is Arm & Hammor Washing soda. This may explain why Vern felt the W.K worked better? Either the White Kings extra ingreideants make the difference, or they're sneaking in some phosphate?
(Secrets safe with me)


Post# 714587 , Reply# 34   11/11/2013 at 13:09 (3,790 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
Oh

stan's profile picture
And the P.H was the same for both. Around 10.

Post# 714592 , Reply# 35   11/11/2013 at 13:24 (3,790 days old) by rustyspaatz ()        

basically a box of salt.


Post# 714599 , Reply# 36   11/11/2013 at 13:56 (3,790 days old) by StrongEnough78 (California)        

strongenough78's profile picture
You never know. They could be sneaking in phosphates lol. I doubt it though. The White King is clear though, no doubt.

Post# 714613 , Reply# 37   11/11/2013 at 14:36 (3,790 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
Salt

stan's profile picture
would only have a P.H of 7 (neutral)

Have done a couple of experiments with W.K, results to follow.

One of the reasons for washing soda, is that it boosts alkalinity, binds with hard water, and help shift oil.
Since W.K has the same P.H, and at lest "appears" to be less precipitating, it "may" be a much better option, short of using STPP
(P.H of around 9)


Post# 715034 , Reply# 38   11/13/2013 at 06:45 (3,789 days old) by Mich (Hells Kitchen - New York)        
Last time I checked...

mich's profile picture

The Salt Packets, at McDonald's, were Zeolite.  I'd be interested to dissolve two or three packets, along side your white kind, and just compare. 


Post# 715072 , Reply# 39   11/13/2013 at 13:05 (3,788 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
Really

stan's profile picture
Didn't think Zeolites were etable? Knew they are used in cat liter!
I also used Laundress's water test for Borax and water was also clear?
Let us know how the Zeolite test goes!


Post# 715651 , Reply# 40   11/16/2013 at 05:02 (3,786 days old) by StrongEnough78 (California)        

strongenough78's profile picture
My Mom noticed today how much brighter and whiter her clothes have been lately :-)

Post# 715667 , Reply# 41   11/16/2013 at 08:20 (3,786 days old) by Mich (Hells Kitchen - New York)        
Zeolite...

mich's profile picture

Is listed on there salt packets, and from my limited tasting, they seem do be, actually, really salty goodness ;)

 

 

Anyhow, typically, water softening products, (like White King ) contain, strong Builder Agents, and these agents will actually pull calcium and magnesium deposits, out of clothing. Clothes, really do look much better when washed in Soft Water, or Softened water, because those Calcium Deposits, actually work against, and bind with your detergent, and they get all trapped in the fibers, giving you that nasty dingy look. 

 

Everyone seems to think, Clorox is the answer, but when it reacts to Hard Water, you get that pastel Yellow look. I think for you, the White King, or another packaged water softener product, is going to give you the best results. 


Post# 715681 , Reply# 42   11/16/2013 at 10:40 (3,785 days old) by retropia ()        

I've been looking, but so far haven't been able to find White King or Rain Drops locally.


Post# 715722 , Reply# 43   11/16/2013 at 15:53 (3,785 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
White King....

USED to contain STPP. Then about 10-15 years ago, they started with different formulations. They would stamp a faint mark on the boxes to indicate what the softener was. A "P" meant STPP. A "Z" meant Zeolites. I think there was a third marking that meant just washing soda, but I don't recall what that was.

Gradually the "P" stamped boxes disappeared and all that was left were the "Z" boxes. It would not surprise me if the current stuff is not stamped at all, and they all contain Zeolites or some other non-phosphate softener. Zeolites would be listed as aluminum silicate, if listed at all. Detergent labeling in the USA is still a hit-and-miss affair. It doesn't seem that mfgs are required to reveal much of anything on the ingredients list, unless there is something definitely toxic in the mix.

I remember using White King Laundry detergent back in the 60's and 70's. It was pretty good stuff, high sudsing, great for top loaders. Probably loaded with phosphates.

Sodium sesquicarbonate is indeed a mix of sodium bicarb and sodium carb. It will precipitate out hard water minerals. Not sure what is in the current White King booster that prevents ppt. Perhaps it's the unlisted zeolites.


The stampings on White King were of a grease-pencil or china marker type of ink. So they rubbed off the slick box surface pretty easily. Often it was difficult to tell just what the marking was.

I doubt very much that the table salt McDonald's provides is made primarily of zeolites (aluminum silicate). Perhaps it's added as a drying agent in trace amounts?


Post# 716159 , Reply# 44   11/18/2013 at 23:59 (3,783 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
Hi Sudsmasterter

stan's profile picture
Here's a pic of the number stamped on my box. There is a Z in the numerical sequence ?
So far this dose not preform as well as STPP, but a little better than washing soda. This with a little Borax, or oxygen bleach... Not bad,


Post# 716213 , Reply# 45   11/19/2013 at 05:20 (3,783 days old) by StrongEnough78 (California)        

strongenough78's profile picture
How much did you use of the White King and of STPP? When I was using STPP my results weren't as good as I got with White King.

Post# 716215 , Reply# 46   11/19/2013 at 05:55 (3,783 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

mrboilwash's profile picture
Please pardon me for being a smart ass again, but I seriously doubt that there are Zeolites in current White King despite of the "Z" in its production code.

Zeolites don`t dissolve in water so the water would be cloudy or at least they would settle to the bottom of the glass after a while.

However, the link I posted earlier to the White King`s ingredients list referes to a particular UPC code (10072613711113)


Post# 716308 , Reply# 47   11/19/2013 at 16:01 (3,782 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
I SWEAR

mark_wpduet's profile picture
That I have seen this stuff in the detergent isle before............I'll have to look next time I'm shopping.

Post# 716329 , Reply# 48   11/19/2013 at 17:41 (3,782 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
Sefan

stan's profile picture
It O.K to be a smart ass LOL
And I think your right! Just wanted to show the number.

Vern, I've never used the W.K and STPP together. I'm out of STPP now, and been too lazy to order.
I have mixed the W.K with a little Borax, and have used the W.K with liquid non chlorine bleach. And other than the glass of water test, That's as far as I've gone with it.
A few times the surfactant I used was a little lye soap in the mix.
So far I'm finding that it's doing a deceit job... How much better than ordinary washing soda... ? I think a bit better. Or it just wish full thinking!


Post# 716431 , Reply# 49   11/20/2013 at 05:22 (3,782 days old) by StrongEnough78 (California)        

strongenough78's profile picture
Oh I was just wondering how much you use in general. You said you got better results with stpp. I was curious to know how much of that you use.

Post# 716521 , Reply# 50   11/20/2013 at 14:14 (3,781 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
Hi Vern

stan's profile picture
It was about a 1/4 cup for a full load in my T.L

Don't know what part of C.A your in? We may have the same water? (Hardness)

Is the W.K still working well for you?


Post# 716717 , Reply# 51   11/21/2013 at 04:48 (3,781 days old) by StrongEnough78 (California)        

strongenough78's profile picture
I'm in Fresno. The water here is moderately hard according to the cities reports. It's still working great. I'm gonna need to get more.


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