Thread Number: 49361
V ZUG Textile Refresher
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Post# 714035   11/8/2013 at 22:07 (3,818 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
This must have launched recently. Works like one of those drying cabinets but adds steam and photocatalysis to sanitize clothes. I'll link the English manual below. It's not on the UK home page yet but there is a German, Italian and French video about it on V ZUG's YouTube page.






CLICK HERE TO GO TO logixx's LINK





Post# 714175 , Reply# 1   11/9/2013 at 14:14 (3,818 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA)        
Beeindrückend...

frontloaderfan's profile picture
That is amazing. For the person that has/wants everything. One wonders what they will cost?

I don't see WP coming out with these any time soon....


Post# 714249 , Reply# 2   11/9/2013 at 20:28 (3,817 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
One wonders what they will cost?

logixx's profile picture
12,500 Dollars (or 11,500 Swiss franc) for the stainless model...

CLICK HERE TO GO TO logixx's LINK


Post# 714402 , Reply# 3   11/10/2013 at 15:57 (3,817 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
The Refresh-Butler

chestermikeuk's profile picture
One would hope the closet comes with it ha ha....


Post# 714403 , Reply# 4   11/10/2013 at 15:59 (3,817 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Of Course....

chestermikeuk's profile picture
The Laundry Studio would have to have these!!


Post# 714408 , Reply# 5   11/10/2013 at 16:14 (3,817 days old) by mrx ()        

€9,332 ??! for a glorified airing cupboard! They can keep it!

I think I'll just stick to hanging the clothes up in the not so fancy, traditional airing cupboard!

There's a lot to be said for old technology!

Basically, in Irish (and most British) homes you've usually got a closest which has wooden slatted shelves with quite wide gaps.
The water-heating storage tank sits in the bottom of the closet and it stays at a steady 35ºC - 40ºC (about 100ºF) at all times inside.

We tend to have a totally different design of water heater to your typical US house. It's normally heated with a heat-exchange coil that takes a feed from the hydronic (radiator) central heating system. There's usually an electric immersion element too which can be used on its own or in combination with the hot water system.
Sometimes, in more modern installations there would also be a solar heating coil.

It's usually 60" x 18" imperial size copper cylinder which is approximately 210 L of hot water.

However, because newer cylinders are very well insulated, they often now put a radiator into the closet as well to boost the temperature as otherwise it would defeat the purpose of the 'airing cupboard'

It's actually a really handy setup though. You can keep your towels nice and warm and fluffy (usually what's in there) and it keeps bed linen exceptionally well as they're warm and cannot go somewhat 'musty' from storage.

You can also use it to dry things like woollens and delicates by just hanging them on a coat hanger and they dry pretty much perfectly over night. They're just kept at a steady, very dry 100ºF all night.

The only downside is that cats usually discover that you have a warm closet full of fluffy towels and pillows and will sneak in there and sleep on everything!

It's something that I would really miss if I were living somewhere else!


Post# 714416 , Reply# 6   11/10/2013 at 16:42 (3,817 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Ahem...

chestermikeuk's profile picture
One thinks the sales demographic of said above purchases would not be the ones using the latest in clothes technology......and we all need something sparkly to aspire to...

And which decade are you describing? most UK homes now have the most compact and energy efficient of combi boilers, usually hung in the kitchen or utilty -
The "Airing" cupboard has well long gone!!


Post# 714420 , Reply# 7   11/10/2013 at 17:02 (3,817 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
It Would Be......

chestermikeuk's profile picture
"James" who would possibly be using it....

"Up until now, unpleasant food odours in a silk dress or folds and creases in a business suit would have been something for professional dry cleaners or a “James” around the house. The Refresh-Butler, an innovation from the inventors at V-ZUG, provides the solution. High quality fabrics can now enjoy refresh, anti-crease, sanitise and drying treatment at home using photocatalysis."



Post# 714460 , Reply# 8   11/10/2013 at 19:30 (3,816 days old) by optima (Cumbria England)        
Refresher

optima's profile picture
Might just have to make room for that in the Bedroom lol.

Post# 714462 , Reply# 9   11/10/2013 at 19:33 (3,816 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA)        
Des isch z'tüür

frontloaderfan's profile picture
CHF 11.500,- for a laundry appliance for a private home, no matter how advanced, is outrageous. The Refresh Butler's most prominent feature is it's snob appeal. V-Zug washers are one thing. Top-notch laundry equipment has it's price. Paying over ten grand to spruce up one's clothing is quite another...

Post# 714524 , Reply# 10   11/11/2013 at 05:09 (3,816 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Refresh-Butler

chestermikeuk's profile picture
Hi Craig, what colour, ha ha?

Hi Ryan, know what you mean but its only obscene to us mortals, there will always be a call for high price luxury products from the world clothing, watches, cars, yachts etc, similarly the cache value of goods with a higher price, which puts V-Zug firmly in the category of Veblen Goods and the cachet that goes with it - in the Swiss banking industry cachet is the norm.

In the 70`s the M brand held a certain status, here they where sold as a cachet high value appliance, one to differentiate from the mass produced, often sold through kitchen specialists and as part of a new kitchen venture, as the brand progressed more models came onto the market and often with wider price range v features....the largest % of M brand laundry appliances sold here now are from there lowest price band, thats the lowest spec product, and you find your "Cache Brand" product is now in just about every home in the land - which is good if the volume and trend continues, but not if you consider the cachet of the brand, hence the new marketing and pricing structure - thats where the likes of V-Zug find their brand is now superbly positioned - in the stratosphere and where it will probably stay, discernable goods with a price tag to prove it!!


Post# 714549 , Reply# 11   11/11/2013 at 07:43 (3,816 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Mike so true

jetcone's profile picture

yet over here we find items like this are introduced to high end clients for a few years to see if they have legs under them. If that all goes well then manufacturers seeking to maximize $$ not cache. They then under engineer the items to reduce price point and reach a mass market stressing "convenience" to that market as opposed to "cache" to the "la-ti-dah" market. 

 

Cool unit by the way but those washer/dryers UGH DROOL SLOBBER UGH FEVER OY! "They ain't no 110V in those babies damn!"

 

P.S. I love the upside down GE dryer opening in the dryer - how refreshing!

 

Its interesting watching the video how they stress killing all those nasty microbes. I just read a piece in the Sunday Times how the Swiss and US have been studying the increase of allergies in people over the last century and they have found people who live,work and get pregnant on farms near cow sheds have a huge decrease in allergies over their lifetime, with the placenta effect magnifying the resistant in the womb. And they conclude that it is the constant exposure to all kinds of microbes from the cow shed that beefs up the immune system. They note at the dawn of the industrial revolution "hay fever" was first talked about and was a rich man's disease. Because they had left the farm life way behind them.

 


Post# 714571 , Reply# 12   11/11/2013 at 11:09 (3,816 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture

Have mentioned the price of this appliance on the German forum and several Swiss members said that their loans are actually higher and therefore things are more expensive that in other countries so - that taken into consideration - this refresher isn't that expensive. Would be interesting to know how much a V Zug washing machine is in the UK versus the same model in Switzerland.


Post# 714574 , Reply# 13   11/11/2013 at 11:32 (3,816 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Previous Models..Adora SLQ + Dryer

chestermikeuk's profile picture
Would cost you now £4.5k.....

CLICK HERE TO GO TO chestermikeuk's LINK


Post# 714607 , Reply# 14   11/11/2013 at 14:17 (3,816 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)        
...and here

ronhic's profile picture

That matched set would cost just short of $10,000....or GBP6,000


Post# 714619 , Reply# 15   11/11/2013 at 14:57 (3,816 days old) by mrx ()        

@chestermike :

Definitely hasn't changed here. Almost all new build has airing cupboards, in many cases they're now bigger than they would have been in the past. I've seen quite a few that are more like a walk-in closet.

The approach here has generally been to make that system more efficient. So, typically you've just got a super-efficient water cylinder. Some of the latest models only lose 1ºC in 24 hours.

There's been quite a lot of retrofitting of solar panels to older homes and new houses post 2008 were required to have solar panels by building regulations. The most recent building regs were pretty serious on environmental stuff. Insulation levels were hugely increased and heat-recovery systems are required. So, you have to have a ventilation system and it has to recover heat using air-to-air heat exchangers.

Even in apartments here you'll usually have a cylinder. Combi-boilers are fairly unusual other than in very small places / retrofitted to very old places.

In rural areas / areas not on the natural gas grid what you'll usually find is an outdoor 'heat pack' which is a condensing pressure-jet oil (gas oil) condensing boiler.

See below:

It's a small washing-machine sized ultra-insulated outdoor 'pack' that is connected to the house using ultra-high insulation district heating pipes.

In older homes, you'd typically still have a small boiler room outside with an oil / gas boiler in it.

Also, alternative fuels like wood pellets are becoming popular and are quite heavily incentivised due to carbon tax.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO mrx's LINK


Post# 714627 , Reply# 16   11/11/2013 at 15:42 (3,816 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Combinations

chestermikeuk's profile picture
Hi mrx,yes a lot of newfangled condenser boilers are now being offered to replace the traditional combi boilers, also the government has linked up with energy suppliers and DWP to offer free combi boilers to replace older inefficient oil or gas boilers.

Solar did take off the last few years here after big incentives but has been reduced due to companies and the government stopping or severley reducing the options.

Brick based or solid apartment blocks have combi gas, some newer wood panel build do offer the new super lagged large electric water tanks which are mains pressured.

I do remember the airing cupboard as a kid, all the sheets and towels warming from the hot water cyclinder with a badly fitted cover haha..


Post# 715017 , Reply# 17   11/13/2013 at 00:42 (3,814 days old) by DaveTranter (Central England)        
Interesting thread

Here goes for a probably rather disjointed 'multi-reply'....

On the matter of the original thread subject, £7,000 (or thereabouts) would pay a LOT of 'professional cleaner' bills!! 'Professional cleaners' also do not occupy house space, nor use your electricity to do their job. I do not think that having one's clothes professionally cleaned has any less 'snob value'. This seems to me like a clear-cut case of 'a fool and his money'.....

Jetcone (Reply#11), Oh, how I agree with your comment regarding the rise of allergies, etc. The Immune System relies on a regular supply of 'insults' to function correctly. In their absence, it becomes either lazy (ineffective) or hypersensitive (allergic). BTW, was the juxtaposition of 'cow shed' and 'beefs up' deliberate?? I hope so, it's such 'delicious' use of language!! ;-)

Mrx (Replies 5+15) It's so nice to discover that not all Building Standards regulators have lost their collective minds! The traditional DHW cylinder and 'airing cupboard' is a wonderful way to capture and use 'waste heat', rather than watching it disappear as a column of steam from the boiler flue. (Yes, I use an electric Immersion Heater - 100% of supplied energy ends up in the water, no waste from flue gasses or pipework loss at all. I've found that the difference in energy cost at point of use (the hot tap) is negligible.) In addition to 'airing' towels and bedding, it makes a wonderful place to 'prove' dough, or even to ferment home-brew' wine! I cannot recommend brewing beer in the airing cupboard though, as it takes forever to wash the malty/yeasty smell out of everything.... :-(

Another benefit of a cylinder of hot water is that when you (as I frequently do) wake up to find the power 'out', you still have a supply of hot water (enough for a good wash, if not a shower or bath) before going to work. I would never have a 'combi-boiler' for this reason. (Why DO power 'outages' always seem to occur at night?? I'm sure there's an 'off-topic' thread in that... )

All best

Dave T


Post# 715043 , Reply# 18   11/13/2013 at 08:03 (3,814 days old) by mrx ()        
@DaveTranter

Yeah, that's a point regarding systems failures / power cuts.

There are some combi-boilers used here, but they're definitely not the norm. They'd be more a feature of very small flats or some very old victorian-era houses that had instantaneous hot water retrofitted to them as a cheap way of doing a proper hot water system.

There were a *LOT* of complaints about them during the 'big freeze' extreme winter we had a few years ago. Much like the UK, we had absolutely unprecedented cold weather back in 2010. It was the coldest winter in 130 years.

The problem was that a lot of mains water pipes running from the deeper street-level mains to individual properties were never designed for -17ºC.
This part of Ireland rarely even gets frost! Much like parts of Devon and Cornwall's coasts we can grow palm trees :D
So, a lot of water mains froze solid or cracked when they thawed.
The result of that was that some people who had combiboiler heating systems were unable to safely run their systems at all and had to be evacuated out of their homes as it was too cold. The systems were unable to run safely without a supply of mains water, or were designed to trip-out if there was no mains pressure so they were left with no heat!!

That's led to a bit of a re-think about fitting them as the more 'traditional' pressurised hydronic systems worked perfectly. A lot of social housing units that might have had such systems have had them modified, especially where there's an old / vulnerable resident.

There were also a lot of issues with attic tanks flooding houses (which I think was the case in the UK too). This was mostly where unoccupied houses (people on holidays / empty new build etc) had attic tanks freeze and pipes burst and completely wreck homes.

So, all in all I'd have to say that Irish and British style plumbing's FAR from winter-hardened stuff!

If weather gets more extreme and those kinds of winters become a regular occurrence, I think both countries are going to need a bit of a re-think about how plumbing's done.


Post# 715044 , Reply# 19   11/13/2013 at 08:39 (3,814 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Well Dave yes

jetcone's profile picture

yes it was a choice of words thank you. My Australian relations tell me most people there feel that kids should eat 5 pounds of dirt before they turn 10!! LOL!

 

I think I am beginning to agree with that philosophy, but then it begs the question of wayy wayy back when!! In our hunter gather culture long before animal husbandry were there cavemen running around with boxes of Kleenex and sneezing with hay fever?? How messy would "Leatherex" be?? GAhhh!

 

Thats a question needs answering.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO jetcone's LINK

Post# 715081 , Reply# 20   11/13/2013 at 13:36 (3,814 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
JonJet.....

chestermikeuk's profile picture
110v might see this digi screen screaming for more, all that colouratiii, would look wonderful next to Big Berta!!


Post# 715085 , Reply# 21   11/13/2013 at 13:41 (3,814 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

But thats the washer/dryer display...

Post# 715091 , Reply# 22   11/13/2013 at 13:56 (3,814 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Yes....

chestermikeuk's profile picture
That goes with the Refresh Butler set that said person showed an interest in ha ha!!

One cant have just one V-Zugerama laundry item!!


Post# 715294 , Reply# 23   11/14/2013 at 08:58 (3,813 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Yes Mike

jetcone's profile picture

I get your point but I bet the boards inside those V-Zug run at 50 cycles not 60 cycles so that alone would whack things up. It'd be a good question for V-ZUg do they use cycle independent boards that can run either 50 or 60 cycles to drive their machines?

 


Post# 715431 , Reply# 24   11/15/2013 at 02:09 (3,812 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Boards...

chestermikeuk's profile picture
Interesting point Jon, will ask a man who can and get back to you - I remember seeing a "Tomorrows World" exhibition years ago and a few manufacturers where presenting a "Console Panel" in the kitchen, like a computer on the wall that controlled all appliances - often thought that would be fun...

Post# 715432 , Reply# 25   11/15/2013 at 02:11 (3,812 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.



Post# 715461 , Reply# 26   11/15/2013 at 06:19 (3,812 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Tap…tap,,,tappp

jetcone's profile picture

tapp,,tap…..


Post# 715475 , Reply# 27   11/15/2013 at 07:54 (3,812 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        
Whirlpool have/had something like that

It´s called Pret-a-porter.

It was launched here in Brazil a few years ago and i'm preety sure it was also launched in the U.S. too.

It looks like a small suitcase, the chamber is made of some kind of fabric and it's completelly foldable. So small that then not in use it can be kept under the bed or in the closet.

Useful? Well... maybe in colder regions where people use a lot of coats.

I bought mine and... used it only once for a suit. Very good to remove cigarette smoke odors but... as I'm always smoking, what difference it would make? duh


Post# 715612 , Reply# 28   11/15/2013 at 19:23 (3,812 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
Console Panels

logixx's profile picture
Many companies offer such a technology, though the smart phone usually replaces a built-in panel. There used to be a project in Switzerland called Future Home (or something) where a family lived I a home that had everything automated. They could even check and close the windows from the main screen in the kitchen. Naturally, their V Zug appliances were connected as well. Miele and BSH have similar offerings and companies such as Whirlpool USA or Samsung have laundry apps to remote control appliances.


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