Thread Number: 50018
Opinions: Miele G976 SCU Plus Dishwasher 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 722279   12/21/2013 at 02:08 (3,776 days old) by washer111 ()        

Being on vacation does have its perks. Visiting family at present, I have the opportunity to present to you a Miele G976 SCU Plus dishwasher, discuss some Pros and Cons, and display a load I ran through recently.

Firstly, I will begin with the Cons (So we are all cheered up and happy for the load I will show):
The racking arrangements on this machine are fairly nice, if you will excuse the fairly shallow upper rack with no Wine glass Supports. The rack is also non-adjustable, meaning you really cannot stuff it to the gills, like you might want. I am also somewhat disappointed at the quality of the baskets and tines. The machine, being about 3 years old already has bent tines, snapped off tines and rust spots. To be fair though, I will note that my DishDrawer back home has several rust spots on one basket (Which was in the Most-Used drawer), but none of the tines have bent or snapped off. The racks also bind a little as you drag them out, and the wire is incredibly thin - not like the thick runs on a vintage KA or GE machine.

Then there is the cutlery tray. I don't know about anyone else, but I am 99% Not-Fond of that thing. The 1% represents the ease of UN-loading. LOADing is a completely different story. 1 knife/fork/spork/spoon/teaspoon (ETC) at a time, trying to put them in so I can fit everything but still get clean. Hmmm. Sounds time consuming? Yes it is. Give me a cutlery basket in the door or lower rack ANY day of the week!

My final complaint is the long cycle times. Alright, it gets everything clean. The "Normal" cycle, which the manual states cannot be used on "Dried on loads," is just on an hour (For reference, the longest is about 2.5hrs). Then however, the machine decides that it wants to Dry the dishes. 30 minutes later... Finally done...
I do not think there is any ill effect turning off the machine before it finishes, but with an onboard water softener, I wouldn't want to risk it.

Now for the pleasant bit that will cheer you up:
No, I haven't had the chance to run one load of crusty, nasty dishes through, since there are too many of us for dishes to sit for more than half a day (We are running the machine almost 4 times a day!). But I have gotten some (un-rinsed) dishes in and have been pleased with the cleaning results.
This included a baking tray used for brownies, which I washed on Universal Plus (Wash -> Wash 55º -> Rinse -> Rinse 65º -> Dry. 1.5 hrs washing) and came clean.

And this washing time isn't in vain: The machine runs all three wash-arms at the same time, at least from what I can hear. Even with a full load, there is plenty of sloshing and wishy-washy sounds being made - so I think everything is 'O.K' inside the machine.

Anyway, here are some shots of the load I ran after even more people visited for dinner, desert and in true Scandinavian tradition, Coffee!




Post# 722280 , Reply# 1   12/21/2013 at 02:10 (3,776 days old) by washer111 ()        

Upper Rack

Post# 722281 , Reply# 2   12/21/2013 at 02:13 (3,776 days old) by washer111 ()        

The 1% loved Cutlery Tray!

Post# 722283 , Reply# 3   12/21/2013 at 02:16 (3,776 days old) by washer111 ()        
Washing:

 Used the 50º (122ºF) "Normal" cycle. 1 wash and two rinses. Without drying is about 1:04 on Cold water connection.

The Cutlery Tray:

Post# 722285 , Reply# 4   12/21/2013 at 02:20 (3,776 days old) by washer111 ()        

Now that is embarrassing... Wrong photo!
The Upper-Rack

Post# 722286 , Reply# 5   12/21/2013 at 02:24 (3,776 days old) by washer111 ()        

Now for the cutely tray. For real this time

Post# 722327 , Reply# 6   12/21/2013 at 10:15 (3,776 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
The Normal cycle is more like a Daily Quick wash on these. I read that people managed to gunk their dishwasher up by almost exclusively using that cycle - as they used it for "normal" pots and pans.

The cutlery tray takes training. I didn't like it when I used it for the first time but I have seen people load it almost as fast as you could dump cutlery into a basket.

Post# 722379 , Reply# 7   12/21/2013 at 15:24 (3,776 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Are you sure its only 3 years old? The 1XXX and 2XXX series date back about 7 or 8 years now.

The Water softener is on the wrong side of the tub to fit into those generations.

Do you have a pic of the control panel? This is a nice full load.

Post# 722389 , Reply# 8   12/21/2013 at 16:24 (3,776 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
Age

logixx's profile picture
Yeah, it's more like 13 years old.

Post# 722488 , Reply# 9   12/22/2013 at 00:34 (3,775 days old) by washer111 ()        
Memory is Not 100% Accurate

 The machine is from the 976 Series, which has a page on the Australian "Product Review" site - so I don't think it will be too old...
It may have been purchased on clearance, but I was here 4 years ago, and I don't think it was here back then. Failing that, it would maybe be from between 2006-2009 (Between two visits).

Will post a picture of the control panel a little later. The machine is very well used, so I don't want to make it look un-cared for.

Post# 722490 , Reply# 10   12/22/2013 at 01:04 (3,775 days old) by washer111 ()        
Control Panel Shot

 If you take a look at the video linked, then you can see the (German) version of the control panel... Of course, the example in this thread is actually in Norwegian, but you get the idea.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO washer111's LINK
Post# 722504 , Reply# 11   12/22/2013 at 05:56 (3,775 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
The G976 models are similar to the G646 models. IIRC these were introduced somewhere around 2000. So 13 years could be indeed it's age.

Post# 722555 , Reply# 12   12/22/2013 at 15:49 (3,775 days old) by washer111 ()        
Machine Age

 Just checking through some photos I have from 2009 reveal the machine was indeed present then. It is older than I think!

So now it is a "race" between 2002 and 2006. At least one of those times, I recall seeing the European dishwashing symbols and being very curious about their meaning. They are pretty cool. But maybe I am mistaken, with it being so long ago!

Post# 722672 , Reply# 13   12/23/2013 at 08:06 (3,774 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK)        
Miele

 vacbear58's profile picture
I have a Miele 646SC Dishwasher which I bought on sale in January 2003 which appears identical excepting that the intensive programme runs at 65 degrees not 75. I have no problems with any rusting or any other problems with the racks. The top rack does have wine glass supports but they are removable, I will grant this is not a machine for tall wine glasses although the top rack is adjustable for height on both sides using the yellow levers on the sides.

I love the top cutlery tray, I find it really does not take much time to load it, and, assuming you sort the cutlery as you load, unloading it is a breeze as everything is already sorted. It is very rare for dishes to be anything less than spotless after a cycle in my dishwasher

Al

Post# 722920 , Reply# 14   12/24/2013 at 13:40 (3,773 days old) by washer111 ()        
Now for more Grumbling

 So imagine another load like the one pictured above, add a large platter to the top of the dinner plates on the lower rack. The plates have some mashed potato residue that is FRESH (Less than an HOUR).

I use 20g of detergent for the Main-Wash, plus about 10-15g for the Pre-Wash on "Universal Plus 55º" (130ºF). Thats about 30g of detergent total. That should be MORE than enough for this load of freshly soiled dishes.

About 2hrs later (Include 1:34 or so of washing)... Mashed potato residue on ALL the dinner plates loaded. Items on the upper rack (which are just some glasses and utensils) are CLEAN. So this tells me that the lower rack needs both the spray from the top AND bottom to clean well. No Bob-Loads allowed, it seems.
YET, my DishDrawer could clean ALL of this in 1hr flat (Or 1hr 30min with drying) in two separate loads split between the drawers, with about the same amount of water and electricity.

So much for Miele machines being "better" cleaners. My "one arm wonder" can do the same! And my machine receives the bad reviews (Over 600 reviews on "ProductReview," with an average of about 3.5 stars...)
Tell me which machine is better!
If you want proof of my claims - ask for it and I WILL post it here (Or use the Searchilator!). I've washed very dirty (and dried) Casseroles on my machine on that 60 minute Delicate cycle. Could I do it in the Miele on the "Normal" cycle (Or even Universal Plus?)?
I don't think so.

The cutlery rack has grown on me somewhat, but I still consider it inferior to proper baskets. Besides, on non tall-tub models, it steals valuable space for wine glasses in the upper rack!

*Rant mode: OFF*

Post# 723019 , Reply# 15   12/25/2013 at 03:30 (3,772 days old) by MikeKLondon (London)        
Racks ~V~ Barskets

I found that once you get used to a rack there's no going back. but it did take some time to get used to it. Yes the Miele does take 2.5 hours to do a pan wash but I'm usually out or in bed not sttting waiting for it, so I cant see why it matters how long it takes it always comes out spotless every time. My current Miele is now 12/13 years old and not a rust mark in sight or bent racks. It has had one major service and new pump at a cost of around £300.00 but I hope its good for a few more years as they no longer make the same model it built in at high level so there's no bending to load / unload.

Post# 723021 , Reply# 16   12/25/2013 at 03:32 (3,772 days old) by MikeKLondon (London)        
Op's Sorry Basket

 Should read Basket with out the R

Post# 723035 , Reply# 17   12/25/2013 at 05:59 (3,772 days old) by washer111 ()        

I personally don't mind waiting up to 2.5hrs for a load of dishes, provided that they are actually CLEAN following all that washing, rinsing, heating and drying.
Thats my main complaint here. 2 Washes, two rinses, heating and drying that takes 2hrs and the dishes are still dirty! That is completely unacceptable.

Post# 723089 , Reply# 18   12/25/2013 at 14:58 (3,772 days old) by washer111 ()        
Another Attempt (For Better or Worse)

 Right now a load is about half-way through the Universal Plus cycle on some more fresh Christmas dishes, similar to last night's load.

Whether it was a good idea or not, I tried my hand at "Bob-Loading" the machine.

For the purpose of experimentation, I also upped the detergent load from last time. The packaging for the Sun detergent recommends 18g in the Main-Wash for Regular Soil. I used 20g yesterday for Main-Wash + 10-15g in the Pre-Wash. The Heavy Soil/Hard-Water recommendation is 30g, so I used that in the Main-Wash + 20g in the Pre-Wash.
I'm really hoping the Miele can kick butt on this load. If not, I guess the 75º (167ºF) cycle could probably take care of it!

I will post photos post-wash and you can see the shining dishes, or mucky, icky dishes. Lets just hope its the former, not the latter!

Post# 723152 , Reply# 19   12/26/2013 at 02:31 (3,771 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Perhaps there is something wrong with your machine. I use the Automatic cycle on my Miele dishwasher and everything comes out spotless every time. Or perhaps it's the detergent?

Post# 723156 , Reply# 20   12/26/2013 at 03:12 (3,771 days old) by washer111 ()        

I actually don't think the machine is at fault. The filters are clear, the spray jets are clear. Perhaps it is the detergent!

The load from last night come out spotless, so I am happy that it was clean. But the amount of detergent I had to use is *slightly* alarming...
Pictures will come soon

Post# 723210 , Reply# 21   12/26/2013 at 14:17 (3,771 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Where does Sun detergent come from these days? I wasn't aware it was available for sale anymore. Is it from the Supermarket, or a $2 shop special?

What does Sun packaging look like

Post# 723221 , Reply# 22   12/26/2013 at 16:15 (3,771 days old) by washer111 ()        

The Sun detergent here (Norway) comes from a Supermarket. Notably the 'Meny' (I think that is "Menu") chain.

You can get Rinse-Aid, Powder, Tablets and "Power-Boost" stuff. The detergent comes in something like a 2+kg jug!

Post# 723232 , Reply# 23   12/26/2013 at 17:08 (3,771 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Washer111--- Thanks for the photos and commentary concerning the Miele. It's fun to read about real-world experiences with appliances. It took a few weeks to get used to using the upper rack for silverware/utensils on my LG, but it's the feature I miss the most on the new GE.

Post# 723392 , Reply# 24   12/27/2013 at 13:51 (3,770 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

I had a similar model purchased in 1996, but it was a G885SC. Similar baskets except the racks were adjustable with the middle raising, lowering and tilting. It had normal 130F and normal 150F as well as intensive and pots and pans at 170F, and some other special ones. I never had to worry about things getting clean even at 130F but the dishes sometimes did not dry as well as 150F.

The center arms washes the middle rack, but there are holes and slits in it near the end that let the water spray down over the bottom rack. The slits spray outward so when the arm turns the water sprays out across, front, back, sides, of the bottom rack. I think this might be to get the items from the front and back as the arms turn. It could complete a cycle at 150F in 70 minutes which is the one I usually used.

I bought my current DW in May 2006 but it has the same wash arm set up in the center that sprays out. This one uses alternating arms, but the center arm still has that ability to spray down out over the bottom rack. It averages 105 minutes with normal soil but it sets it own temperature so I don't know what its using.

Post# 723485 , Reply# 25   12/28/2013 at 02:18 (3,769 days old) by washer111 ()        
The 2nd Results!

 Bottom Rack:

Post# 723486 , Reply# 26   12/28/2013 at 02:21 (3,769 days old) by washer111 ()        

Middle Rack

Post# 723487 , Reply# 27   12/28/2013 at 02:24 (3,769 days old) by washer111 ()        

Cutlery Rack (Upper)

Post# 723488 , Reply# 28   12/28/2013 at 02:26 (3,769 days old) by washer111 ()        

Clean Dishes, From the Bottom

Post# 723489 , Reply# 29   12/28/2013 at 02:28 (3,769 days old) by washer111 ()        

Middle Rack

Post# 723490 , Reply# 30   12/28/2013 at 02:31 (3,769 days old) by washer111 ()        

Last, but not least, the Cutlery Rack.

I guess the trick with this machine is being very liberal in terms of determining the soil, and using plenty of detergent!

Post# 724303 , Reply# 31   1/1/2014 at 12:36 (3,765 days old) by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan)        

maytaga806's profile picture
Its way too basic, where are the water towers? And the look of the inside is ugly.

Post# 724936 , Reply# 32   1/4/2014 at 05:14 (3,762 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        
Water towers

 If this machine is anything like my previous Miele and my current one you shouldn't really need water towers. The center arm is up under the middle rack so it is taking the place of a tower. For the cutlery tray there is a longish flat arm that circles and sprays down and across the cutlery tray. It gets the items from the front and back as it rotates. You can't see this arm unless you get on your knees and look up.

As for the racks looking ugly...well I haven't seen any DW racks that looked to great except for the ones in my older 1970's KA which were dark blue then the lighter blue version. The arms in my newer Miele are long and square at the end instead of tapered so I like that shape a bit better. Other than that the racks are just basic white.

From this post Sun DW detergent is something I would never buy, in fact I don't think it is available in any store I shop in. I stick to Finish Quantum tabs or Miele Tabs. Occasionally I try cascade but I really don't like the scent of it, and it costs more than Finish and doesn't clean any better in my water conditions.

Of course there is the Cascade Kitchen Counselor in the commercial but she compares apples to grapes buy comparing Finish gel to Cascade action pacs. Sorry girl..no gel is gonna clean better than a multi compartmented pac..no not even Cascade gel.

Post# 728249 , Reply# 33   1/17/2014 at 02:04 (3,749 days old) by washer111 ()        
Detergent Choice

Yes the "Sun" detergent really isn't that impressive considering the huge dosages you have to use for effective performance on this machine. 

 

I personally would have used Finish or Miele tabs, if they were available in the house at the time (Although "Sun" tablets were in the cupboard...). 

 

The worst part for me was the lack of Phosphates in the detergent. Hard water or not, that stuff really helps to get things clean. Enough that I do notice a difference between the >30% Phosphate Finish powder I get here in Australia and the No-Phosphate formula by Morning Fresh, Earth, especially the latter, which foams excessively and has issues with Protein removal from plates directly in the water spray. 

Suffice to say, I should stock up on the good stuff before it is discontinued. And maybe sell some to my fellow members on the board (But it might be expensive to ship to the U.S.)

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