Thread Number: 50270
OLD Electric Warming Oven |
[Down to Last] |
Post# 724966   1/4/2014 at 09:02 (3,736 days old) by robinsondm (Upstate NY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Hi folks,
My pantry contains an old electric warming oven. It has no markings that I can see. However, the house generally had all GE appliances, so it might be a GE. Based on what I know about the history of the house, I'd guess the oven dates from the late '30s or early '40s. It's 24 inches wide, and fits in a "standard" undercounter opening, except that it appears to rest above the baseboard molding, rather than on the floor. The oven may have identifying markings on the back, but it's built-in, and I'd prefer not to remove it unless absolutely necessary. I'll attach some pictures in the next few posts. Does anyone recognize this oven? Thanks, Dean First picture: This post was last edited 01/04/2014 at 09:19 |
|
Post# 724967 , Reply# 1   1/4/2014 at 09:02 (3,736 days old) by robinsondm (Upstate NY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 724968 , Reply# 2   1/4/2014 at 09:04 (3,736 days old) by robinsondm (Upstate NY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 724969 , Reply# 3   1/4/2014 at 09:05 (3,736 days old) by robinsondm (Upstate NY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 724973 , Reply# 4   1/4/2014 at 09:20 (3,736 days old) by polkanut (Wausau, WI )   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 724976 , Reply# 5   1/4/2014 at 09:26 (3,736 days old) by robinsondm (Upstate NY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 724984 , Reply# 6   1/4/2014 at 09:41 (3,736 days old) by rockland1 ()   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Most warming drawers today sell at or above $1000. They're probably not worth that much, but that's where the pricing is. |
Post# 724991 , Reply# 7   1/4/2014 at 10:09 (3,736 days old) by wiskybill (Canton, Ohio)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Dean, I'm curious. Have you ever checked it with a thermometer to see what temps correspond to low, med, and high? I could see this as a very useful addition to any kitchen, if you have the space. Bill |
Post# 724996 , Reply# 8   1/4/2014 at 10:24 (3,736 days old) by robinsondm (Upstate NY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 725055 , Reply# 9   1/4/2014 at 16:16 (3,736 days old) by 58limited (Port Arthur, Texas)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 725084 , Reply# 10   1/4/2014 at 18:39 (3,736 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
You are so fortunate to have it. My new GE range has a warming oven where the storage is normally. I wasn't sure I would use it when I bought it, but I wanted it. You don't realize how much you use it.
fixing pancakes on weekends, you can keep the batch warm while you put the next bunch on the griddle. When you are having big dinners you can keep the bread warm while you are finishing the rest of the meal. Works great as a plate warmer too. For something that I wanted that I didn't think I would use much, I am surprised that I have it on several times a week. |
Post# 725116 , Reply# 12   1/4/2014 at 20:57 (3,736 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
When I worked at an Arby's a few years ago we had a warming oven like this. They call it the Alto-Shaam. You place 3-4 roasts in it after they bake in the oven in back and you keep them in the Shaam so that you have enough of them to slice for the lunch and evening rush. It is supposed to be 140 degrees, see if that one is that hot. In fact, the interior of that warmer looks like the inside of the Alto-Shaam. We also had warming drawers like they did at Denny's. In an Arby's they are used for potatoes.
|
Post# 725200 , Reply# 14   1/5/2014 at 11:00 (3,735 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
That must be some mansion to have that appliance installed in butler's pantry during the Depression. I wonder if your Schenectady location could mean that it was the home of some GE executive. |
Post# 725205 , Reply# 15   1/5/2014 at 11:20 (3,735 days old) by robinsondm (Upstate NY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Tom,
It's not really a mansion, but it is a nice big old house. And the house was originally built for a GE executive! I live in a neighborhood called the GE Realty Plot: www.realtyplot.org/... My house is not nearly as fancy as some in this neighborhood. Nowadays, the neighborhood is mostly non-GE people. And (sadly for me) the houses are worth much less than you'd think, because 1) most affluent families choose to live in the suburbs, and 2) the taxes in Schenectady are quite high. Points 1 and 2 are unfortunately related and self-reinforcing, but that's off-topic for this thread. Dean |
Post# 725210 , Reply# 16   1/5/2014 at 11:38 (3,735 days old) by robinsondm (Upstate NY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Okay, I measured the temperature in the warming oven with an oven thermometer, and got the following:
Low: ~170F Med: ~220F High: ~270F It takes a long time for the oven to warm up and stabilize, so these measurements took a while. For more accurate measurements, I could use a remote-reading thermometer, but I don’t have one. Dean |
Post# 725211 , Reply# 17   1/5/2014 at 11:43 (3,735 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Wow! Thanks. Beautiful location. It seems when cities have treasures like your neighborhood, there should be a tax break to keep keep up the value and desirability of the location. Thank you for sharing your treasure. |
Post# 725309 , Reply# 18   1/5/2014 at 16:40 (3,735 days old) by robinsondm (Upstate NY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Hi Folks,
I temporarily removed the guard in the rear of my warming oven to reveal the heating elements. A picture appears below. To me, the cloth wire insulation, etc., looks consistent with a guess of late 30s or early 40s, but I'd be curious to hear others' opinions. As you see, there's some light rust on the elements. I don't know if I should try to remove the rust (after cutting power to the oven) or leave it alone. Two other tidbits: 1) I've seen the oven's main power cord (it plugs in behind an undercounter refrigerator) and the power cord is cloth insulated. 2) The heating elements say "TRENT, H.E. Trent Co., Phila. PA., 115V, 300W". There is a Trent Inc. in Philadelphia, that makes heating units for industrial applications. Any more thoughts or guesses on the oven would be appreciated. As I said, I'd rather not remove it to examine the back for additional markings. Thanks, Dean This post was last edited 01/05/2014 at 18:15 |
Post# 725312 , Reply# 19   1/5/2014 at 16:51 (3,735 days old) by robinsondm (Upstate NY)   |   | |
This post has been removed by the member who posted it. |
Post# 725323 , Reply# 21   1/5/2014 at 17:30 (3,735 days old) by robinsondm (Upstate NY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 725324 , Reply# 22   1/5/2014 at 17:32 (3,735 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 725343 , Reply# 23   1/5/2014 at 18:02 (3,735 days old) by robinsondm (Upstate NY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 725347 , Reply# 24   1/5/2014 at 18:11 (3,735 days old) by robinsondm (Upstate NY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
@gansky1: Yes, it could be intended as a plate warmer. In the past, that's how we've used it, rather than using it as a keep-warm oven for food (though I think it would work for that purpose also).
@mrx: If the cloth insulation is really a serious risk, then I have bigger problems than the warming oven. Namely, much of my house wiring still has cloth insulation! When I've worked with it (e.g., to install new outlets) the insulation has always seemed to be in good condition. The cloth was impregnated with a wax, I think, that keeps it soft and pliable. We did talk to an electrician once about re-wiring the house to get rid of the old wiring, and it was too much for him! That same electrician did remark on what good condition the old wiring seemed to be in. Anyway, I'm sure I could rewire the warming oven. Would you recommend that? Rewiring the house would be a much, much bigger deal. Fortunately, we do have centrally-monitored, hard-wired smoke alarms in the house. Dean |
Post# 725545 , Reply# 27   1/6/2014 at 12:50 (3,734 days old) by 58limited (Port Arthur, Texas)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
4    
|
Post# 725555 , Reply# 29   1/6/2014 at 13:33 (3,734 days old) by mrx ()   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
If the wiring's from the 1920s you're talking about a system that's coming up on 100 years old! That is *NOT* safe. Ask any electrician. |
Post# 725557 , Reply# 30   1/6/2014 at 13:41 (3,734 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
When I bought my house, it had to be "emergency" rewired the night before closing due to the inspector finding Knob and Tube wiring and the insurance company refused to issue a certificate.
Sellers and I split the cost my half was approximately $2500, Luckily we did not have to change the service as we already had 100 amps coming in. If it had been less the insurance company would have required an upgrade to the service as well. $$$ |
Post# 725559 , Reply# 31   1/6/2014 at 13:43 (3,734 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
2    
Especially one that is trying to sell you new wiring!
I'd surely not worry about the wiring in the appliance itself. Its in a metal box and provided its protected by a fuse or circuit breaker you are fine. It would either short and trip the protection or go open meaning no heat, no other reasonable failure is possible. I won't comment on the home wiring as none of that has been detailed here. If the OP is concerned it would be wise to have a professional electrician look at it in person. Armchair quarterbacking on a forum by folks that have never seen said wiring isn't likely to be helpful... |
Post# 725560 , Reply# 32   1/6/2014 at 13:51 (3,734 days old) by mrx ()   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Well, good luck with it! I won't be commenting on anything like this again as my opinions are clearly most unwelcome on this forum. Adios! |
Post# 725574 , Reply# 33   1/6/2014 at 14:52 (3,734 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
That's my thinking too, that it is a dish warmer since it is located in the pantry, but could be used too keep foods warm. Would really come in handy at the holidays. Never seen one this old. Very neat. Thanks for sharing. |
Post# 725577 , Reply# 34   1/6/2014 at 14:57 (3,734 days old) by robinsondm (Upstate NY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
Well that (mrx's departure) is unfortunate. I sent him a PM to say I thought this was just a disagreement over the need to re-wire, and that no one had intended for him to feel personally insulted or leave the forum. I also encouraged him to consider rejoining.
But, I don't know if mrx will see my PM. So, if any of you know how to reach mrx, maybe you could reach out and encourage him to consider rejoining the forum? Thanks, Dean |
Post# 725687 , Reply# 37   1/6/2014 at 23:27 (3,733 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
3    
|
Post# 725813 , Reply# 38   1/7/2014 at 12:06 (3,733 days old) by kenwashesmonday (Carlstadt, NJ)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
The wiring in the warming oven appears to have the same type of asbestos impregnated insulation found in electric stoves. It tends to hold up very well over time.
Ken D. |
Post# 726358 , Reply# 43   1/9/2014 at 06:12 (3,731 days old) by robinsondm (Upstate NY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Thanks for the comments on wiring in the warming oven and my house. I will leave the oven wiring alone and keep using the appliance. FYI, the oven has its own circuit, shared only with the undercounter fridge.
Also FYI, my house wiring is not knob and tube. The original cloth-covered house wiring runs through metal conduit to metal junction boxes. All the fuses are the right values. The overall house was upgraded (long ago) to 150 amps. This post was last edited 01/09/2014 at 08:24 |
Post# 726359 , Reply# 44   1/9/2014 at 06:29 (3,731 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
I would like to point out that MRX is from Ireland, where 220v is the norm, rather than the somewhat more benign American 110v. Electrical safety is a somewhat different ball game where he's from. 220 doesn't just shock if you have a problem - it welds your arse to the wall.
Our frames of reference can be different, and sometimes it's for a good reason. That does not mean that anyone is right or wrong here; we just know what we know because of the reality we've always contended with. |
Post# 726391 , Reply# 45   1/9/2014 at 09:10 (3,731 days old) by robinsondm (Upstate NY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Well, Sandy, I view the USA's 120V/60Hz standard as plenty dangerous and potentially lethal, even if slightly "less deadly" than Ireland's 230V/50Hz. I realize there's also room for some disagreement on safety practices.
Mostly, I'm disappointed that mrx took the discussion so personally, and decided to leave the forum altogether! |
Post# 726443 , Reply# 46   1/9/2014 at 14:24 (3,731 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Done maintenence work...220 hurts worse than 110!!! and 277 on a lighting circuit really will make you jump!!! |
Post# 726448 , Reply# 47   1/9/2014 at 14:49 (3,731 days old) by robinsondm (Upstate NY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 726584 , Reply# 49   1/10/2014 at 00:48 (3,730 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
More people are electrocuted from 120V than any other voltage-BE CAREFUL!!!120V IS LETHAL!!! |
Post# 727014 , Reply# 50   1/11/2014 at 17:16 (3,729 days old) by robinsondm (Upstate NY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
My wife did some internet sleuthing and found a 1937 catalog called "Whitehead Work Saving Kitchens." It contains images of 2 very similar (but not quite identical) warming ovens. See the picture below. Note the similarity of the control knob (called a "three-heat switch") and indicator light, and the heating elements behind the guard -- just like mine -- on the left picture. The description even says 600-watt, and my oven has 2 300W elements. The catches at top and bottom, and the rubber stops, also look the same. And the oven on the right is called a "plate warmer," just as folks above deduced was the intended use for my oven.
While the shelving configurations are different, and my oven lacks the decorative slots on either side of the control, this is obviously very close to what I have. It doesn't tell me exactly who made and/or sold my oven -- Whitehead, H.E. Trent, etc.? -- but it seems the same manufacturer made both my oven and the Whitehead catalog offerings of 1937. This post was last edited 01/11/2014 at 17:52 |
Post# 727080 , Reply# 51   1/11/2014 at 21:25 (3,729 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 727774 , Reply# 52   1/15/2014 at 01:10 (3,725 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
That is asbestos fiber and as long as you don't disturb it it will last a long time and work safely. That was the best insulation at the time for heating equipment. That is white american asbestos not european brown. As such my father, a material scientist at GE, felt the concerns about it were overblown as the brown variety has a hook structure to the crystal that hooks into lungs while the white american has straight crystal structure which does not hook.
I'd leave it alone and enjoy your appliance.
My House had Knob n Tubing and a lot of them still do here in New England, its considered very safe BUT and this is a BIG BUT it is not polarized like today's systems so DONT ever plug a computer into an KnT circuit, I fried one once which was very expensive.
Nice area I know it well I have good friends that live on Wendell and you may remember their house was used in the filming of "Beyond The Pines"?
|
Post# 727889 , Reply# 53   1/15/2014 at 17:09 (3,725 days old) by Davey7 (Chicago)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
My dad said the same thing about asbestos fibers and their danger. I think we have gotten a touch paranoid about asbestos and lead as a whole (not say there aren't risks, just overstated risks). |
Post# 727914 , Reply# 55   1/15/2014 at 19:11 (3,725 days old) by robinsondm (Upstate NY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Tom (CircleW): You appear to be psychic, and it’s scary. :) Seriously, I was getting ready to reply to the posts before yours – mentioning that I won’t disturb the asbestos, etc. But I was also thinking to myself, “I’d better not tell them about the fused neutrals!” I started Googling “fused neutrals” to get the latest thinking on this situation and how to remedy it. I then returned to the forum and saw your post – positively spooky!
Anyway, near the back entrance to my house is the most beautiful electrical panel you’ve probably ever seen – gorgeous copper conductors and knife switches, and a built-in light bulb – but with fused neutrals. It was likely the original panel for the house, and just as you said, various later upgrades never touched this box.
I will look into getting this situation fixed. Because the panel is so beautiful, I’d prefer to remove (and save) the whole thing, and replace it with something more modern -- rather than having an electrician add jumpers around the fuses. But, I’ll do what I have to.
In the meantime, have you considered making some extra income as a psychic? :)
Dean
|
Post# 728087 , Reply# 57   1/16/2014 at 13:57 (3,724 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
American Family Insurance refused to insure the house as long as it was in place.
and a house with Knob and Tube are not FHA insurable for loans They cite: Fire hazard due to insulation, or other contact with wire or rodents. Shock or electrocution hazard as mentioned above. Lack of ground and ground fault interrupters. Since my house was built in 1935 they also stated that electrical requirements for a home have vastly changed and the older style wiring is not equipped to handle the electrical loads. I also felt safer having it replaced. |
Post# 728089 , Reply# 58   1/16/2014 at 14:07 (3,724 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 728092 , Reply# 59   1/16/2014 at 14:33 (3,724 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
The Biltmore house...is FULL of the original wiring!! |
Post# 728475 , Reply# 62   1/18/2014 at 06:51 (3,722 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
I totally agree that it is probably best to leave the wiring of that beautyful plate warmer alone. If it aint broke don`t fix it.
I guess it doesn`t make sense now as long as the neutral is still fused, but you might consider to add a grounding wire. (Just a wire attached to the cabinet and a water pipe or similar.) Would love to see a picture of the electrical panel. |
Post# 728482 , Reply# 63   1/18/2014 at 07:22 (3,722 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
thats exactly what happened in my house built 1892, downstairs there was 100 amp circuit breaker service and skeins of romex running up to the house, BUT after the $4,000 computer failure it was found the top two floors were powered by K&T, and it gets better, the prior alcoholic homeowner just brought the romex up to the attic for 11 rooms and stripped it and WRAPPPED it around the K&T -- then he place newspaper and two layers of fiberglass insulation over the whole mess. K&T can handle a lot of current; when my electrician found this he cut the wires and he said they flew apart and 11 rooms immediately went dead. There is now 5,000 feet of new romex snaked through this whole house.
I won't tell you what the prior bojack owner did with the gas pipe in the third floor, but I can tell you my plumber came down white as as sheet and AFTER he shut the gas off to the entire house took me up to see it.
|
Post# 728778 , Reply# 64   1/19/2014 at 15:19 (3,721 days old) by robinsondm (Upstate NY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Jon (jetcone),
I wanted to thank you for your earlier note on 1/15. As you and others have suggested, I'll leave the oven's asbestos wiring alone.
FWIW, I wanted to repeat that my house does not have K&T. Instead, the original wiring runs through metal conduit.
I know which house you're talking about on Wendell Avenue -- it's a small world! I don't know the owners very well, though I have met them before. Thanks again,
Dean |