Thread Number: 50548
It continues... The ongoing saga of the Inglis
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Post# 727729   1/14/2014 at 18:54 (3,726 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

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New Year, new projects, right?? Well, kinda...

This is a 'hangover' from a restoration I ambitiously undertook last fall - getting my 1966 Inglis back into shape. I've started a new thread because there were lots of photos taken as I ran into one obstacle after another and I was afraid they'd take too long to load. Here's a link to the original thread and a photo of the 67 Whirlpool donor transmission that I hope will keep this project from going south...


CLICK HERE TO GO TO turquoisedude's LINK





Post# 727731 , Reply# 1   1/14/2014 at 18:57 (3,726 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

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I am convinced that there is now something wrong with the jury-rigged Inglis transmission that I turned into a narrow-belt version.

I started by removing the drive block. The heat of the basement, assisted by the HIGH setting of a hair dryer softened it up and it popped right off!


Post# 727732 , Reply# 2   1/14/2014 at 18:59 (3,726 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

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This is easy now... Having the right tool and having removed two tub nuts so far, I had no difficulty getting this removed.

Post# 727733 , Reply# 3   1/14/2014 at 19:00 (3,726 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

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Now, here's where things get...interesting.

The transmission slid right out, which I expected. What I did not expect was for the basket drive to slide right out, separately!


Post# 727734 , Reply# 4   1/14/2014 at 19:02 (3,726 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

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Now, compare that to the Whirlpool donor transmission. Note the basket drive is still pretty firmly attached to the transmission shaft. I can't for the life of me remember how it looked when I first pulled it from the 67....

Post# 727735 , Reply# 5   1/14/2014 at 19:04 (3,726 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

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It gets better... Note the close up of the drive pulley and upper clutch plate. They are definitely not attached.

Post# 727736 , Reply# 6   1/14/2014 at 19:09 (3,726 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

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I apologize for the poor close-up, but check the plate and pulley on the new narrow-belt basket drive I popped onto the Inglis transmission. It's very firmly attached from what I can see.

So here's my first 'wall' I've run into... Is the plate and pulley supposed to be so close? On the Whirlpool, I suspect that the basket drive shaft has pulled up on the transmission shaft. Can I just slide it back? If so, how much force can I safely use to slide it back down?

I've promised Hubby no more new projects until I get this one done, so I'm anxious to get this one completed!


Post# 727794 , Reply# 7   1/15/2014 at 06:24 (3,725 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Even I know there should'nt be

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that much of a gap between the pulley and the clutch shoe. The pulley outer rim is the clutch plate and I see on yours it has rust, it should be shiny if the spin is engaging. 

 

Did you download the whirlpool doctrine?? The break down of parts should help. I forget what activates the spin clutch when the wigwag calls for spin, anybody chime in here, is it the breaker bar sliding under the spin pulley that raises it up to the clutch??

 

Memory comes back, the basket drive is supposed to be attached to the tranny through a pin & spring on one end and the other end sits on that post coming up from the body of the tranny. The whole thing should have come out together.  By the way how are the spin bearings in this machine do I recall you changed them out?

 

And picture #5 looks like you are completely missing the wigwag and breaker bars, that would account for the megna-gap between the pulley and clutch shoe.

In Picture #6 I see the breaker bars under the pulley BUT the saddle of the clutch is not attached to the two posts, did you take it off the posts to take the picture or did it come out of the machine like that?

 

 

 

 


Post# 727801 , Reply# 8   1/15/2014 at 07:50 (3,725 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

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Jon, you're confirming what I had not been 100% sure of. I've read and re-read the doctrine, but still wasn't quite visualizing it all!

In picture 5, the wig-wag and bars are there, but on the other side of the transmission case. What scared me and what you confirmed was that the gap between the pulley and plate are not a good thing. Methinks the donor WP transmission will need a complete rebuild!

In picture 6, the clutch saddle is not attached to the mounting posts - that was intentional so I could compare the gaps!

Just for the pure heck of it, I tried spinning the main drive pulley by hand and sliding the agitate or spin bars in and out to simulate the wash, neutral drain, and spin actions. I may have jumped to a false conclusion that the modified Inglis transmission is toast! What bugged me was why the machine didn't work that way when the tranny was actually in the washer... A discussion with John (combo52) brought up something that I should be rapped squarely across the knuckles with a ruler for not considering... The belt!!

It never even occurred to me that because I switched to a narrow-belt drive system that I was NOT using a new drive belt... I don't think that the motor could be that weak, but I do have a spare (or three) in case a new belt doesn't help. But it looks like I pulled the transmission for nothing, but oh well...

Would anyone happen to have the WP part number for this type of belt? Worst case scenario, I'll be in the city next week and I can try the parts place where they didn't point and laugh at me when I was looking for the Maytag air dome hose.

Stay tuned!!


Post# 727810 , Reply# 9   1/15/2014 at 08:50 (3,725 days old) by thefixer ()        

"I forget what activates the spin clutch when the wigwag calls for spin, anybody chime in here"

The spin cam bar is pulled towards back of washer allowing clutch shaft to drop, yoke drops which allows brake spring pressure to press clutch against pulley.


Post# 727830 , Reply# 10   1/15/2014 at 11:19 (3,725 days old) by revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        

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Hi Paul and Happy New Year!

 

As for PN for the drive belts....

 

#95405 - regular "woo-woo" belt

 

#96386 - quiet pak belt

 

I hope this helps!

Kevin

 

 


Post# 727839 , Reply# 11   1/15/2014 at 12:32 (3,725 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

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Paul, it looks like the set screw for the brake collar is not engaged in the set hole on the spin tube. I don't think the actual transmission (minus the basket drive) from the '67 Whirlpool has issues but instead the brake package needs some attention.

As Jon mentioned, study the doctrine, especially the parts about the drive package. Also, I added photos of the rebuilding of the drive package on my '59 Restoration.

If I were in your shoes, I'd take the '67 Whirlpool's drive package apart, inspect the drive pulley bearing, and rebuild it using the new spin tube you have (using parts between the two, but making sure you use the standard belt drive pulley and clutch to convert the washer back to the standard size belt). If you have questions, let us know.

Ben


CLICK HERE TO GO TO swestoyz's LINK


Post# 728347 , Reply# 12   1/17/2014 at 17:01 (3,723 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        
Stuck!

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I've been trying to slide the basket drive and spin tube assembly off the 67 WP donor transmission, but, to quote Granny Clampett, "It ain't a budgin'"

I've tried tapping it gently with a hammer, but was afraid I'd mess something up.

Its sitting by the oil stove in the basement in Ogden - I thought that maybe there was some gummed up grease keeping it stuck. At this point, I'll try anything!!

Any suggestions??


Post# 728408 , Reply# 13   1/17/2014 at 22:00 (3,723 days old) by recyclewasher ()        
Set screw

Check the pointers raised by swestoyz in above post.
It's not gum holding it back and if you continue with the hammering without backing out the set screw it will distort the aluminum brake which has four areas where the aluminum is very thin (by the 4 small spring areas are about 1/16" thick) and then it will Break!
I didn't have any service manual with me when I dismantled mine and found the set screw the painfull way! I still have the broken pieces in a zip lock bag so when I have some free time to fab a jig to weld and machine it back to keep as a spare. The hole was hidden by grease gunk and I didn't know or see it before I resorted to the hammer.
My 0.02$


Post# 728437 , Reply# 14   1/18/2014 at 01:36 (3,723 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Paul

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I see gloss on your belt and also fraying, both "belt no-no's". Tsk tsk

 


Post# 728470 , Reply# 15   1/18/2014 at 06:24 (3,722 days old) by recyclewasher ()        
Inspection mirror

If you can insert a small inspection mirror between the yoke where the (4 small brake springs are- don't loose these either as they are colour coded for brake tension) and the aluminum round disc above it ( which holds the set screw) you should see where the set screw hole starts from the perimeter -looking up under its skirting) or use a paper clip and try to locate the set screw hole on the perimeter of the round aluminum disc- I forget what size Allan key I used to back it out

Post# 728477 , Reply# 16   1/18/2014 at 06:57 (3,722 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        
Set screw is out

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I removed the set screw, as described by Ben, before I started to try to remove the basket drive assembly. I am afraid that there's something very wrong here...

I've been given one last chance to get this washer and the various parts, bits, and pieces working again and off the basement floor or it will be sent to a new vocation as a Kia...

If you had to on a solution here, what would it be: swap the transmissions or replace the belt?


Post# 728497 , Reply# 17   1/18/2014 at 08:02 (3,722 days old) by recyclewasher ()        
Ok I went and found the old zip lock bag of parts and

Looking to see if there were 2 set screws? Nope but you need to get the parts diagram to find out where the circular retaining ring in pic goes on basket drive, bird beak pliers required here. Been so long since I did this, I can't remember exactly and transmission is already installed in washer.

Solvent to soak out and soften the old gunk still between The shaft and aluminum disc and alternately 'working it out up and down the shaft' with small wood hammer shaft below and wood block above to get it to free up on the shaft. If you can get it to move enough so that the 4 small springs can be removed then you can add a bearing removal tool in the bigger space
I noticed you have small dimples on the disc surface right above where the small springs are located.
Weird



Post# 728499 , Reply# 18   1/18/2014 at 08:06 (3,722 days old) by recyclewasher ()        
Another view pic

..

Post# 728501 , Reply# 19   1/18/2014 at 08:27 (3,722 days old) by thefixer ()        

The upper brake drum set screw goes into the spin tube, not against the agitator shaft. The set screw should not prevent the basket drive from being pulled off the agitator shaft. That retaining ring is to hold the lower brake drum to the clutch plate with yoke and brake pad in between so that the yoke lifts the clutch disc away from the pulley when the brake is applied.

Post# 728504 , Reply# 20   1/18/2014 at 08:37 (3,722 days old) by recyclewasher ()        
Thanks for clearing that up

Been a while since working on one :)

Post# 728518 , Reply# 21   1/18/2014 at 10:16 (3,722 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)        
The problem getting the basket drive off...

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Paul,

What you are describing happens from time to time, in fact I had it with my 1986 KM 70, which isn't a high-mileage machine. There is a sleeve bearing inside the spin tube which rides against the agitator shaft, toward the top of the tube, just below the area where the spin tube seal is installed.

With use, the spin tube seal will cause some friction wear to occur on the agitator shaft, usually as polish marks (when you're lucky) and later as small grooves or gouges on the agitator shaft, just like the bearing seals can do to the outside of the spin tube. If or when these grooves/gouges get moist, the worn bare metal of the shaft starts to rust, and expand. It then won't allow the bearing in the spin tube to pass by when trying to remove the spin tube/basket drive.

Sometimes these can be very difficult. I have always been able to separate the parts, but a few have taken serious effort. My personal method: Make sure the drive pulley is secure on the gearcase, because you'll need it as a gripping surface and to prevent the internal gearcase parts from moving. Then clean the spin tube so it is not slippery in the center and you can get a firm grip on it. **Be sure the gearcase is engaged in agitate**. Grab the drive pulley with one hand, and the spin tube with the other, and TURN the spin tube back and forth while pulling UP on it, and hold the drive pulley steady so the agitator shaft doesn't move. Twisting it with upward force will eventually raise the tube over the wear-groove in the shaft. Adding some turbine oil inside the worn area may help keep things moving.

If a great deal of effort is required to make the above work, it can leave the sleeve bearing in the spin tube damaged, but if you don't plan to re-use the spin tube, it doesn't matter.

This is a method I started using on my own and has always worked for me, but it can be tedious - perhaps the professional service guys of AW know a better way?

Gordon


Post# 728519 , Reply# 22   1/18/2014 at 10:21 (3,722 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)        

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Paul - as a side note, WP recommends that the sleeve bearing in the spin tube get a teaspoon or so of turbine oil upon re-installation of the basket drive on the gearcase. This will lube the bearing and seal and slow the re-development of wear grooves.

G


Post# 728613 , Reply# 23   1/18/2014 at 20:00 (3,722 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Stuck Basket Drive

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Hi Paul, I told you that the spin tube was stuck due to a rusted agitator shaft, Gordon has also confirmed this.

THERE is NO reason to even try to remove the basket drive from the transmission.

Both the agitator shaft and the spin tube are trash, if you want to save the transmission and basket drive components for rebuilding by installing a new agitator shaft and you can also rebuild the basket drive by installing a new spin tube, you need to do as I suggested and SAW the two shafts OFF several inches above the upper brake, then everything will slip apart easily.

I mailed you a new narrow belt yesterday PT # 96388, and if I were you I would try replacing the belt on the washer before starting to rebuild another transmission and basket drive assembly.

John L.



Post# 735947 , Reply# 24   2/17/2014 at 20:09 (3,692 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

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Well, I only finally got over to Vermont to pick up the new drive belt last week, and today, I had to try it out. I managed to get the transmission back in, bad back and all. Better still, I remembered to loop the belt around BEFORE re-attaching the transmission mounting bolts...

Now, before I put the son of a thing back in, I was able to make the wig-wag work and engage spin and agitate functions while manually turning the transmission pulley. With the motor running, I had agitation for about 5 seconds, then nothing. Note that in this video the wig-wag isn't moving.






I think I need a new transmission. Oh, and a large Manhattan, too... Sigh....



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