Thread Number: 5086
Thomson TX898 - No paddles in drum? 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 111143   2/21/2006 at 12:14 (6,637 days old) by the7 ()        

Thomson TX is my son's new Euro-size FL washer/dryer in HK.
It can wash 6 kg and dry 3kg. See 1st photo

Apparently there is no paddle in the drum. See the next 2 photos.




Post# 111144 , Reply# 1   2/21/2006 at 12:15 (6,637 days old) by the7 ()        
2nd photo

 Is this the only paddle?

Post# 111146 , Reply# 2   2/21/2006 at 12:18 (6,637 days old) by the7 ()        
3rd photo

 Are these the Hot air inlet and return when used as dryer?

Post# 111147 , Reply# 3   2/21/2006 at 12:20 (6,637 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
ODD.

Post# 111151 , Reply# 4   2/21/2006 at 12:38 (6,637 days old) by the7 ()        
Update

 The left hand side inlet is for water-jets (not Hot air). See Photo.

Post# 111154 , Reply# 5   2/21/2006 at 12:53 (6,637 days old) by the7 ()        

If the LHD is for water-jets, then the RHD would be Hot Air Inlet for drying and the return could be through the circumferencial holes in the drum. Any thoughts?

My son says:
"FYI, a normal 40C "cotton" wash at 1300rpm for the Thomson TX898 takes 1hr 41min (LED display). If the "Eco" feature is selected, the cycle takes 1hr 47min."
"As for the drying function, it usually takes at least 1hr 30 min for the clothes to be as dry as the ones using the dryer in Vancouver."

Post# 111185 , Reply# 6   2/21/2006 at 14:41 (6,637 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Interesting! Thanks for posting the pics. How on earth do the clothes get picked up and dropped if there are no paddles? Hour and 40 min. for wash, hour and 30 min. to dry. That's quite a time commitment for a single load of laundry.

I wonder if the top-loading horizontal axis machine will ever catch on in the US? There is some talk about Whirlpool having a patent for just such a washer...

Post# 111186 , Reply# 7   2/21/2006 at 14:42 (6,637 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Are there no paddles on both sides of the opening? I mean more towards the top of the drum when it's open. We can't see that part of the drum on the pictures.

Post# 111209 , Reply# 8   2/21/2006 at 16:07 (6,637 days old) by the7 ()        
Will ask my son to confirm!

 I will email my son to look again to see if there are any other paddle-like objects besides the only one at the bottom.

Post# 111309 , Reply# 9   2/22/2006 at 04:50 (6,636 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Very Interesting!!

 chestermikeuk's profile picture
Looks a very different machine than the other TL washer-dryers, like the sound of those directa jets,

Would love to see this operate with clear sides just to see if the load really does move without the larger paddles we are all used to.

Post# 111378 , Reply# 10   2/22/2006 at 10:47 (6,636 days old) by hoovermatic (UK)        

This is almost exactly the same as my Hotpoint TL, just one paddle. Mine can be removed to access the trap that catches buttons and coins etc and it is quite heavy too. Unlike my previous h-axis TL, this one always returns the opening flaps to the top and the paddle is at the bottom, so it is something to do with the weight of it that allows it to do this.

Initially, I didn't even notice this lack of paddles and when I did, I thought it was most unusual. I can confirm however, that it has no detrimental effect on the washing action or effectiveness. My machine is A rated for wash performance and I am very happy with it's cleaning ability.

I share your curiosity, but, if it helps put your mind at rest, that one paddle does a top job!!

Post# 111380 , Reply# 11   2/22/2006 at 10:52 (6,636 days old) by hoovermatic (UK)        

Incidentally, the cycle times on my Hotpoint TL are terribly long. As I have said on here before, the quick wash at 30 degrees takes just over 90 mins!!!!!! When I read the cycle times in the instruction book I assumed it was a typo, until I used the programme. I find that I use the 'quick' wash for almost everything and as I am a great beleiver in the 30 degree setting and Ariel, it suits me down to the ground.

I like the look of those water inlets on the side of the drum, I don't have those!!!!

I want a GE Harmony with a glass window please :-))))

Post# 111447 , Reply# 12   2/22/2006 at 18:20 (6,636 days old) by jmirawm (Barling Arkansas)        
top load horizontal in U.S.

Who is Staber Industries?
Staber Industries began re-manufacturing laundry equipment in 1976 from manufacturers such as Maytag, Whirlpool, GE, and Speed Queen. Based upon this experience, we were able to implement design improvements for a new type of clothes washer and we have patented a unique tub design that can clean more effectively than circular tubs. Staber washers have been produced in Groveport, Ohio, since 1993.

There are videos of the washer. Click on **how to use** scroll to the bottom of that page.

Available in White, Black, Ocean blue, Ruby red, and Ivy Green.

At some point someone shared a couple of videos here. I have two of them on my computer. I would give credit where credit is due....but Alas, I dont remember who shared them.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO jmirawm's LINK
Post# 111506 , Reply# 13   2/22/2006 at 23:40 (6,636 days old) by monkeyward40 ()        

yeah staber industries in ohio here where iam owns the patents to the top loading horizontal axis with the tub that is stop sign shaped so that it pulls in the soapy water to wash the clothes better then most front loaders and it uses alot less water then regular front loaders on the market.

Post# 111516 , Reply# 14   2/23/2006 at 06:06 (6,635 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
E VAI!

 Louis, do you see? You prompted me to open a new thread speaking about TL h-axis... here you are, somone else has though it before me! GOOD, I love EUROPEAN TOP LOADING HORIZONTAL AXIS, and if I do not wrong, you too!

Anyway, let me say something about this kind of washer as I own one (2001 Whirlpool AWT8104D), and my aunt owned one too (1972 IGNIS model***), I know them quite well.

1. LITTLE/NO PADDLES:You can't judge the paddles dimension untill you have heard the tumble sound, there may be long (1 min or more) tumble in both directions intermetted with short pauses to achieve a more gentle action on fabrics instead of a tumble action with more "energic" paddles... and the gentleness will be on fabrics in drying cylce too.

2. LONG TIME: I have already said it in some other thread, but let me repeat it, if you had to do laundry by hand you would be right to complain long cylce time, but it's the washer that do it all for you! Put clothes, add soap...swithc on! Just do it! Then if you had to come back to washer, after 30 min or after 1 h 30 min I honestly do not find any difference :-))) In the mean time of course your washer does not eat the laundry!!! LOL :-))
Long time I think it mean a more warranty of get your clothes clean rather than in a shorter cylce, my washer heaviest cycle last 2 h, but it has also cylce of 1 h and rapid cyle of 30 min, it depends on the soil level.

3 STABER: The start point to get even in USA TL h-axis; they say the exagon innner tube is better than a paddled circular tub... I disagree at all! Think to the performance of any FL you have seen in USA, and try to think if they wer TL...i mean TL h-axis... what about it!!?!? Would it be a suitable machine for US consumer?!?!?

Good bye everyone
Diomede

Post# 111529 , Reply# 15   2/23/2006 at 07:11 (6,635 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        
Aspete , aspete, aspete ma che? Fai quello che devi fare.

toggleswitch's profile picture
I must say I am back to a top-loader for a while and the quick cycle time and ease-of-loading via a large high port (8upa, puerta, porta, door) is fabulous!

There is MUCH more lint in the dryer these days which MAY be due to rough treatment in the washer, or the much longer dryer time needed.





Post# 111554 , Reply# 16   2/23/2006 at 10:00 (6,635 days old) by designgeek ()        


Very interesting; I definitely want to get back to this topic but will have to wait until tonight....

Post# 111605 , Reply# 17   2/23/2006 at 16:33 (6,635 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
What a fun! :-)

 Steve, you make me surprised every more! :-))
When I read you writing in italian I can't stop laughing... I APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORCE! If you want I can give you some Italian lessons... although I find you're quite good to be a principant! LOL...

Anyway, I can say you that here agitator had been discontinued since 1950's when Zanussi with a Westinghouse license had been producing FL washers for decades.

Tumble washing system had been appreciated by Italian consumer in the follewing year, when in the 1960's twin-tubes had been discontinued and people started to purchase their first washer. Both my grandmothers purchased their first washers in the late '60. They were FL washers.

I can't imagine how you can appreciate FL, while the same system washing, with top loading machine, would not be good as well for you too.

Then concerning the long time of the cylce, you have to consider that:
- those machine in heavy duty cylce always make a prewash of 15 min at 40-45°C., followed by the main cycle and 5 rinses,with at least one inter spin and a final spin of 10-15 min at 800-1000-1200-1400-1600 rpm.
- I don't know about the HK Thomson, but here all washers have only one COLD inlet valve, so they have to increase temp, until that you have selected... the work at 220-240 V, but how long do you think they take to increase temp from 8-10°C to 90-95°C!?!?!?!?!?!? Of course if you do your heavy at 60°C it will take surely less time, and you consume less energy too!

At the end, a machine like that above, in USA, wiring at 220 V, with the second provided hot water inlet valve, will surely take not much more than 1 h to do a complete heavy cylce (without pewash)...

YOU SHOULD TRY IT :-)))

GOODNIGHT
Diomede

Post# 111616 , Reply# 18   2/23/2006 at 17:51 (6,635 days old) by the7 ()        
Thomson TX898 at 220V 50Hz

 Thomson TX898 in HK is supplied at 220V 50Hz 15A circuit. So it could have a high power heater (say 2000-2500 watts) for heating washer water and for drying. It also has only one COLD inlet.

Post# 111727 , Reply# 19   2/24/2006 at 04:49 (6,634 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Yes, I like European H-axis toploaders, it's definitely a very effective design. I'm fascinated by that. On the other hand it's also the most boring design since you can't see what is happening. No wash day drama here!!

The Thomson can draw max. 2200 Watts, so the heating element is probably 2000 Watts. It means it can be connected to a 10Amps circuit overhere.

Monkeyward,

I assume that you meant to say that the Staber uses a lot less water than regular TOPLOADERS on the market? The Staber isn't a very energy and water efficient machine, most new American frontloaders use less IIRC. The hexagonal drums create a lot of space between the drums, which increases the amount of water used.

Post# 111859 , Reply# 20   2/24/2006 at 21:01 (6,634 days old) by the7 ()        
My son's reply.

My son said: "There are no other objects other than the removable (not likely, as you need a "star-shaped" screwdriver") paddle at the bottom of the drum."

So TX898 has only one small paddle at the bottm.

Post# 111888 , Reply# 21   2/25/2006 at 05:26 (6,633 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
Maybe for drying cylce...

 Very strange for a EuroTL to have only one paddle... at least they have three ones.

I suppose that's to have not much plastics element in the drum to reduce any risk of demage with high temp in the heavy drying cycle...although termoindurent plastic must be used for element such as that to achieve high temp resistence.

By the way, reading an instrucion manual of a muchine such as that, I read that you have to take out the dispenser (which is generally under the lid in machine like that, made of thermopalstic) during the drying cycle (so I found that wash'n dry is not automatic!), to don't get dry any powder detergent residue left.

I might assure that any other machine like that has got at least three (I would they were more!) "acuminate" paddles... splashing sound seems quite energic! :-)))

Bye
Diomede

Post# 111913 , Reply# 22   2/25/2006 at 08:56 (6,633 days old) by the7 ()        

I am also skeptical at the one paddle TX898 because most of all other washers and dryer have 3 (or more) paddles.

We could not question its washing performance because it is a modern machine with top class A washing performance as awarded by IEC.

I think that the washing and drying could be done automatically in one go. Will email my son to confirm.

Post# 111934 , Reply# 23   2/25/2006 at 10:39 (6,633 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
Thermoindurent plastic - themoset. RIGID, stays in from once set.
Thermoplastic- becomes pliable/moldable at higher temperatures.

I dont like the idea of one paddle. Sometimes it takes a good paddling to get reuslts.




Post# 111944 , Reply# 24   2/25/2006 at 11:29 (6,633 days old) by the7 ()        
TX898 auto wash and dry

 My son replied:
"Yup. That is possible. Can combine with 1-19 hours delay, eco care, sleekare setting too."

So it confirms that TX898 could be programmed to wash and dry in one go.

Post# 112231 , Reply# 25   2/27/2006 at 00:36 (6,632 days old) by designgeek ()        

One paddle can be quite sufficient in a smaller drum. The point of the paddle is to provide enough added friction to cause the load to roll. Large paddles in a small container can produce the paradoxical result that the load moves as a static whole, with no (or less) relative motion or mixing action. Also in a narrow drum you can get decent rollover and mixing action with no paddles, depending on friction between the load and the surface of the drum.

The placement of the plastic paddle opposite the door, seems intended to counterbalance the added weight of the hinges and latch on the door.

Horizontal-axis TLs by definition have "invisible" washing action (you can't watch). The closest you're going to get to being able to observe the cycle is by fitting a clear perspex lid over the top and bypassing the safety switch on the existing lid. (You need a lid otherwise the spin cycle will help wash your ceiling as well as your clothes!)

The closest we're going to get to visible washing action is if e.g. Staber made a unit with clear front panels on the inner and outer tubs, and a clear front cover. This could be done, and if the rear panels on the inner & outer tubs were also clear, it could include a light behind the rear of the outer tub, which would shine all the way through.

As far as the relative efficiency of Staber vs. others, the drum geometry could be equally efficient if a lower overall water level was used, counting on the "pumping" action of the drum geometry to compensate for the added clearance space. Probably the majority of the Stabers are sold to buyers in remote areas who prefer the simple & robust construction and the ability to easily self-maintain the machine over the years. Simple DIY maintenance is a compelling sales case in a rural environment. Many buyers are off-grid using solar and/or wind power (some for ecological reasons, but many for the simple practical reason that it would cost them more to extend grid power to their locations than to install their own solar & wind equipment), and have wells for water, so maximum electrical efficiency would be more important than maximum water efficiency.

Post# 112317 , Reply# 26   2/27/2006 at 10:04 (6,631 days old) by the7 ()        

Very good observation/comment from designgeek about the white paddle.

My son told me that this white paddle is screwed with TORX T20. The drain outlet hole on the outer tub could be inspected by removing this white paddle.

I would speculate that the indentation on the door may also act as another small paddle. If so, then TX898 has two "mix and match" paddles.

My speculation/comment:
For H-axis washers, small paddles tend to distribute the laundry evenly around the drum in spinning.
In V-axis washers (TL-agitator), there is no paddles to interfer with the even distribution and they have less vibration problem.

Post# 112395 , Reply# 27   2/27/2006 at 16:31 (6,631 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
Vedo e non vedo...

 Generally, those machine has got a safety switch, whic is on ONLY during rinse and spin cycles. It means that in any moment of the wash cycle you can open the lid, to look at the drum rotating, and I can tell you that's amazing to see the sudsy drum rotating (obviusly the drum stop itself as just as you open!).

That's why it would make sense to add clothes during the wash cycle while not during the rinses and... don't you think it would be dangorous to let that kind of washer spin with the lid open!?!?

I often open the lid (although my wahsers is in the basement), but sometimes during the cycle (2h), I go to visit her and I open the lid so look at the drum and to check otu the dispensers...

Bye
Diomede

Post# 112456 , Reply# 28   2/27/2006 at 20:21 (6,631 days old) by the7 ()        
TL H-axis also have safety door lock !

 Most modern washers, including TL H-axis, have safety door lock during the wash phase as well as during the rinse and spin phases. One needs to stop the washer first before the door is unlocked.

Of course, you could always fool or bypass the door switch if you know how.

Post# 112535 , Reply# 29   2/28/2006 at 09:44 (6,630 days old) by designgeek ()        

the7, thanks; and good observations on your part also, about the indentation in the door serving as a second paddle, and about load distribution going into spin.

Re. safety interlocks: they're designed to prevent small kids and idiots from Darwinizing themselves. As for the rest of us, common objects such as pencils and clothespins work casually as bypass mechanisms, and the more ambitious among us fit a toggleswitch on the back of the machine (or a key-lock switch if there are kids around).

The only place where I think a safety switch is really useful is on a highspeed spinner e.g. SpinX, since if something gets loose at 3,200 rpm, it's going to become a missile and could harm someone in the room. But to keep the action visible, there's no reason a spinner's external container couldn't be made out of clear polycarbonate, either alone or in some kind of "safety glass" type of laminate.


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