Thread Number: 51725
Miele W32445 front loader, load not dry after spin 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 741155   3/11/2014 at 15:43 (3,692 days old) by kamrate ()        

Hi folks, new user here hoping that others can help me pinpoint the cause of my troubles with a Miele W3245 front loading washing machine.

The problem is that following a spin cycle with a full load the load is still quite damp, sometimes to the point of parts being dripping wet. Normally this machine maxes out at 1600 RPM, so I would expect a fairly dry load when finished.

My guess is that excessive vibrations trip the anti-vibration sensor, causing the machine to not spin at full speed. Lighter loads come out just fine, very dry. I have observed the machine spin with a full load, and it does seem to me that it vibrates more than I remember (not that I have checked before the problems started).

I have replaced the shock absorbers with SUSPA brand absorbers which appear to be the same brand and type as originally installed. One thing I did with the absorbers is that I played around with them a bit, pulling them out and pushing them back in, which I *think* does not harm them, but I am not *sure* of this.

I have not moved the machine in the last three years or so, which makes me less inclined to think that the problem is an unstable surface, even if the feet are on levelled planks.

I have not replaced the springs holding the drum up. I have no idea if this is a likely cause of this issue, nor do I have any idea how I might inspect the springs to see if they are OK.

So, in summary, I am somewhat desperate. Does anyone have some pointers about what I can try next? I am handy enough to measure voltages and whatnot with a multimeter if needed, it is just that I am not sure where to look now.




Post# 741156 , Reply# 1   3/11/2014 at 15:52 (3,692 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
How old is it and how heavy do you use it?

 The cause *may* be the carbon brushes (this model should not have a FU-drive). So i suspect worn carbonbrushes as this can cause such problems!

Post# 741161 , Reply# 2   3/11/2014 at 16:35 (3,692 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
If It Were The Brushes

 launderess's profile picture
Then then the machine wouldn't spin or tumble for that matter at all, no?

Post# 741168 , Reply# 3   3/11/2014 at 16:53 (3,692 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Have you checked the pump to make sure all the water is draining out of the machine? At the end of the cycle there should only be 1-2L of water left when you drain the pump. Any more and its not working correctly.

If the pump is blocked there could be residual water remaining which is preventing the spin out.

If the machine is spinning at all, then the clothes shouldn't be dripping.

I had a problem with my machine where a bean bag bean had made it into the pump and was blocking the breather hole at the top of the pump chamber. Every time the machine filled with water, the pump would fill with air and air lock, so it would spin with a fair amount of water in there, leaving everything wet.

Post# 741171 , Reply# 4   3/11/2014 at 17:00 (3,692 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
@launderess

 Not in all cases. Sometimes, if the springs pushing the brushes onto the rotor a to weak because of heavy use or to short brushes, it can occur that at high speeds the small gaps between the collector-plates (aren't they called so) cause the brushes to be pushed away from the rotor for a short time. This way the motor looses power. It is just like driveing over road bumps. If you go slow, thats no problem. If you go fast, you "fly" a short distance.

Post# 741176 , Reply# 5   3/11/2014 at 17:22 (3,692 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

mrboilwash's profile picture
Don`t know the particular model, but usually there is a water reservoir between the pump and the drain hose which is used to seal the detergent recovery valve at the bottom of the outer drum by gravity from the water in the reservoir.

If something is wrong with this valve gray water might splash or seep back into the drum and result in a partially dripping wet load of clothes despite of a high final spin speed.



This post was last edited 03/11/2014 at 17:43
Post# 741187 , Reply# 6   3/11/2014 at 18:29 (3,692 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Being that this machine spins at 1600RPM, its highly unlikely that it has brushes. The Miele products that spin Faster than 1400RPM all have the professional brushless motor.

Post# 741281 , Reply# 7   3/12/2014 at 03:34 (3,691 days old) by kamrate ()        

First of all let me say thank you to all that chip in with suggestions, much appreciated. Especially after I bought shock absorbers and that did not work :o)

@brisnat81 and @henene4 - I found a reference to the W3245 here
shop.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/12ml09-mi...
but I do not know if this is accurate. So just to be clear - we are saying that the vibrations could conceivably cause the carbon brushes to "bump" away from making contact, resulting in a slower spin, correct?

Could it be that it is actually the brushes in the *drain* pump that are affected? I *think* that at times there has been wetness at the bottom of the drum, but hard to say 100%, could just be that the load was wet and gravity pulled the water to the bottom of the pile.

I have taken of the drainage pump and inspected it, could not see anything obviously wrong. I have taken off and inspected the rubber reservoir below the drum, which has a plastic ball that floats and seals the drum during the cycle. I also cleaned this. I also inspected the hose from the drain pump up towards the block of backflow valves, no issue there. It seems to drain just fine, I can see the outlet hose.

About how old it is - uhm... more than five, less than ten years I think. Eight maybe? It is a household machine, for a family of five so I would say 5-10 loads per week. At least once a week I run a 95 celsius wash (boiling) so not much chance of residue buildup. Every once in a while I run this wash with a dishwasher tablet to really make sure anything growing inside dies.

Post# 741283 , Reply# 8   3/12/2014 at 03:49 (3,691 days old) by richnz (New Zealand)        
Check the hoses

 There is a hose that runs from the pump to the water inlet. It's small and it connects to a Y connector. Check that this is clear.
Also check that the ball valve is not clogged and this can be released by undoing one screw and pulling down firmly.

Post# 741289 , Reply# 9   3/12/2014 at 05:02 (3,691 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

@mrboilwash Actually, sorry, but ththusel should be based on the same machine-design as our old W3241. And all of the W3xxx should habe had brushmotors. Since most of these W3xxx series machines have been discontinued. Further, some of W1xxx machines had 1600rpm and the normal motor. Especislally 8 or more years ago, 1600rpm and brushed motors were not unusual.
@kamarate Not exactly. I mean the motor runs slower causing lower vibration frequencys, ergo the tub swings more to wach side. You know this phenomena at every start of the spin: The drum swings quite a big distance to every site. Once it picks up speed, this distance is getting smaller thus THe vibrations are better absorb by the dampers...

Post# 741328 , Reply# 10   3/12/2014 at 12:13 (3,691 days old) by kamrate ()        

@richnz
Not sure what you mean when you say "the ball valve" to be honest. The hoses are all clear as best as I can tell.

Post# 741354 , Reply# 11   3/12/2014 at 14:12 (3,691 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
Carbon brushes

 ozzie908's profile picture
According to a google search of the number it does indeed have carbon brushes and as miele motors are known to wash when they do not spin.

For the cost of replacement brushes its surely a good idea to just try them?

Austin

CLICK HERE TO GO TO ozzie908's LINK
Post# 741355 , Reply# 12   3/12/2014 at 14:14 (3,691 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Hi Kamrate,

There is a small black hose that connects to the top of the pump and runs up the steel support on the front left of the machine. It then connects to the hose that goes from the Dispenser drawer to the wash tub. This is the hose that RichNZ is talking about

On my Machine this is where the bean bag beans had gone and were blocking the hose. This hose lets any air pockets out of the pump, if its blocked then the pump wont necessarily drain.

@Henene4
I've got the W3933 which is definitely the 1600RPM Commercial drive as is my 1800RPM W2888.
In Australia, from the W2XXX series onwards, anything Miele that spins over 1400RPM has the Professional VFD motor, no brushes to be found. This is usually the Navitronic and the model with the 3 line LCD display that are at the top of the model range.

Post# 741364 , Reply# 13   3/12/2014 at 14:48 (3,691 days old) by kamrate ()        

I can confirm that this smaller hose is NOT blocked. I took the top off and was able to loosen the hose, and there was no resistance when blowing into it down into the pump.

Post# 741367 , Reply# 14   3/12/2014 at 14:54 (3,691 days old) by kamrate ()        

Btw, if anyone should happen to have a service manual for the W3245 that would certainly be helpful. I have managed to get the front off, but only with some effort, specifically I was unable to get the right hand side of the control panel off, so I had to pull out the left hand side and managed to get to an underlying screw without removing the control panel. Pretty sure this is not what the German engineers had in mind....

Post# 741379 , Reply# 15   3/12/2014 at 15:06 (3,691 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Removing the motor...

 ... Should be easier Form the bottom. But getting servicemanuals is pretty mich impossible for Miele. At least for these machines.
I just remember how the serviceengenieres checkt the shocks: The washer was loaded with a flat 1kg rubber peace. Than it is setten to spin at full spead. If it handels that without fault, the shocks are OK.

Post# 741483 , Reply# 16   3/12/2014 at 22:43 (3,691 days old) by richnz (New Zealand)        
Ahh the hoses

 Sorry about the classy photos but here are the hoses I was referring to

Post# 741484 , Reply# 17   3/12/2014 at 22:44 (3,691 days old) by richnz (New Zealand)        
And the bottom part

 You can see the ball-valve in the background

Post# 741485 , Reply# 18   3/12/2014 at 22:46 (3,691 days old) by richnz (New Zealand)        
to inspect the ball valve

undo the top screw and pull downwards. Maybe there is a sock in there slowing the draining???

Post# 741511 , Reply# 19   3/13/2014 at 02:47 (3,690 days old) by kamrate ()        

Great pics :)
As for the ball valve, yeah, had that off, no issue.

I will try to get some pictures of what the machine actually looks like inside.

I am a bit miffed that I got new shocks, when it appears there was nothing wrong with the old ones. Grumble... Might have to borrow a one kilo rubber ball and see how that works out.

Post# 741516 , Reply# 20   3/13/2014 at 04:57 (3,690 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

mrboilwash's profile picture
The reservoir for the ball valve I was reffering to is almost on top of the machine.
A faulty detergent recovery valve is only one posibillity but still my best guess.

The link goes to the patent of the ball valve and the reservoir is #12 in the graphics. It`s just to give an impression of how much water "could" actually seep back into the drum.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO mrboilwash's LINK
Post# 741518 , Reply# 21   3/13/2014 at 05:38 (3,690 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

mrboilwash's profile picture
A faulty ball valve is also quite easy to rule out without any disassembling at first.
If possible unload the washer immediately after the cycle is finished.
Then check for the next few weeks for a tiny puddle of water in the drum before you load the clothes.
This way you`ll recognize a possible problem even if it is only a periodic thing or if it takes a few hours for the water to seep back.


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