New member, questions about my off- balance 81 Kenmore belt drive

I've heard of these rubber suspension balls drying out and becoming noisy, and have that in a couple of my machines, but they don't seem to allow the whole mechanism to move more freely, as a properly working snubber should hold down the entire mechanism. If you don't think the machine is too loose or "springy" within the cabinet, I would direct my attention to:

1) Look again at the snubber pad. If it is worn down significantly so that its height has become reduced, the snubber spring may not be able to exert enough force on the pad to properly press it against the snubber plate. When this happens on plastic tub ring machines, the spring itself will often wear gouges on the edge of the tub ring, so you can see when this problem is developing.

2) Check the snubber spring itself. Is it rusting? Is it properly seated in the corner gusset? Are the bolt and nut tight?

3) Look at the snubber plate on the tub ring. Is there a slippery detergent/slime build-up on it?

4) Is the tub ring properly centered, secure and in place?

5) Check the rear leveling legs. The rear legs can slowly sag over time due to breakage or fatigue of two white plastic little clips that hold the leveling link in place. When these clips fail, the steel rear legs will slide too far up into the cabinet, making the entire machine slowly center itself too far back in the cabinet. I didn't know this could happen until I noticed it on two machines of mine and my mother's 1981 Kenmore. This may be why Whirlpool is still making those clips --- people must be buying them. I got some last year that were molded in 2012. If you suspect this may be a problem (look for an uncentered tub ring that seems to center toward the back of the cabinet more than normal) I can help you find the part number for the clips.

6) Check the overall level of the machine, side to side and front to back. Also check the front legs that they aren't loose or not screwed in far enough.

7) Verify the stability of your floor. A weak floor can be a real problem for belt-drive machines due to their weight, especially large capacity models.

8) Is the machine in an overflow pan? This may be a longshot, but when my 1986 70-series belt drive was newly delivered, it was in a galvanized overflow pan that held the machine firmly (it seemed) when not running or when agitating, but when it went into spin the pan would flex as it wasn't perfectly flat, and this allowed the machine to shift slightly during the first few initial spin rotations, just enough to pop off the out of balance relay. Putting it on a secure floor when I moved two years later stopped all that.

Those are the areas where I would focus my attention. When I last checked not long ago, new snubber springs, subber plates, and pads were still available on eBay and from Sears, plus other places as well.

Take some pictures if you're still stumped! Best of luck to you Eugene, we're here to help you.

Gordon


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Post# 745676 3/27/2014 at 23:02 (3,675 days old) by lorainfurniture (Cleveland )
Checkrate/Likes Hello, my name is eugene, and I have been in the used appliance business for the last 13 years. Hopefully I will be able to contribute a bit of useful knowledge to this forum, but meanwhile, if have a question regarding my 1981 belt drive Kenmore washer. It seems to go off balance more often than not. I re sanded the snubber, but still my problem persists. From my google search, it looks like the next step is replacing the suspension balls? Pn. 91073. Alas, they are nla. First, am i on the right track in solving my off balance problem? Second, does anyone know where I can find some?

Post# 745680 , Reply# 1 3/27/2014 at 23:46 (3,675 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)
Checkrate/Likes 3 *I would focus my attention elsewhere first...* I've heard of these rubber suspension balls drying out and becoming noisy, and have that in a couple of my machines, but they don't seem to allow the whole mechanism to move more freely, as a properly working snubber should hold down the entire mechanism. If you don't think the machine is too loose or "springy" within the cabinet, I would direct my attention to: 1) Look again at the snubber pad. If it is worn down significantly so that its height has become reduced, the snubber spring may not be able to exert enough force on the pad to properly press it against the snubber plate. When this happens on plastic tub ring machines, the spring itself will often wear gouges on the edge of the tub ring, so you can see when this problem is developing. 2) Check the snubber spring itself. Is it rusting? Is it properly seated in the corner gusset? Are the bolt and nut tight? 3) Look at the snubber plate on the tub ring. Is there a slippery detergent/slime build-up on it? 4) Is the tub ring properly centered, secure and in place? 5) Check the rear leveling legs. The rear legs can slowly sag over time due to breakage or fatigue of two white plastic little clips that hold the leveling link in place. When these clips fail, the steel rear legs will slide too far up into the cabinet, making the entire machine slowly center itself too far back in the cabinet. I didn't know this could happen until I noticed it on two machines of mine and my mother's 1981 Kenmore. This may be why Whirlpool is still making those clips --- people must be buying them. I got some last year that were molded in 2012. If you suspect this may be a problem (look for an uncentered tub ring that seems to center toward the back of the cabinet more than normal) I can help you find the part number for the clips. 6) Check the overall level of the machine, side to side and front to back. Also check the front legs that they aren't loose or not screwed in far enough. 7) Verify the stability of your floor. A weak floor can be a real problem for belt-drive machines due to their weight, especially large capacity models. 8) Is the machine in an overflow pan? This may be a longshot, but when my 1986 70-series belt drive was newly delivered, it was in a galvanized overflow pan that held the machine firmly (it seemed) when not running or when agitating, but when it went into spin the pan would flex as it wasn't perfectly flat, and this allowed the machine to shift slightly during the first few initial spin rotations, just enough to pop off the out of balance relay. Putting it on a secure floor when I moved two years later stopped all that. Those are the areas where I would focus my attention. When I last checked not long ago, new snubber springs, subber plates, and pads were still available on eBay and from Sears, plus other places as well. Take some pictures if you're still stumped! Best of luck to you Eugene, we're here to help you. Gordon

Post# 745787 , Reply# 2 3/28/2014 at 10:55 (3,674 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)
Checkrate/Likes *Off-Balance 1981 BD KM Washer* All Gordon s points are good and should be checked., but in addition make sure that all three transmission braces are in place between the transmission and the bottom of the base plate. Unscrupulous servicers often removed them when changing the belt etc and threw them away, without them the machine will never behave properly. And if the washer seems to become off balance no matter the load remove the agitator and see if the wash-basket is starting to crack near the base of the basket tube. I have never seen bad suspension balls in a WP built washer this new. Hi Gordon, WP still sells the rear and front feet and the plastic clips for these washers that you mentioned because they are still using them on the 24" DD Thin-Twins.

Post# 745918 , Reply# 3 3/28/2014 at 20:20 (3,674 days old) by lorainfurniture (Cleveland )
Checkrate/Likes Here are some pics of the machine and snubber.

Post# 745919 , Reply# 4 3/28/2014 at 20:21 (3,674 days old) by lorainfurniture (Cleveland )
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Post# 745921 , Reply# 5 3/28/2014 at 20:22 (3,674 days old) by lorainfurniture (Cleveland )
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Post# 745922 , Reply# 6 3/28/2014 at 20:23 (3,674 days old) by lorainfurniture (Cleveland )
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Post# 745924 , Reply# 7 3/28/2014 at 20:24 (3,674 days old) by lorainfurniture (Cleveland )
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Post# 745932 , Reply# 8 3/28/2014 at 20:54 (3,674 days old) by lorainfurniture (Cleveland )
Checkrate/Likes So just for reference, that is a few pieces of baby clothes and it threw the machine off balance. The machine is pretty level. The tub sits centered, and firmly on a concrete floor. Furthermore the machine has only been in my house for about 2 or 3 weeks. So I'll try and answer all the questions in order; 1. Snubber height ? Not interfering with tub ring. 2. Spring is not rusted, still very stiff, and. Bolt is tight. 3. Snubber plate is clean and dry 4. tub ring is secure 5. Machine is level to my eye. I will verify later with a real level I'll check trans braces tomorrow. The machine overall is really clean. It is a suds saver, with lint filter. Minimal surface rust was taken care of as soon as it came in to the shop. Looking through my hoard of appliance parts I found 2 nos genuine pumps, and a new in the box motor. Looks like this machine will be around for a while.

Post# 746530 , Reply# 10 3/31/2014 at 09:54 (3,671 days old) by lorainfurniture (Cleveland )
Checkrate/Likes I ordered a new snubber yesterday off eBay. I figured 10$ is worth guessing. Although I have much experience with appliances, the belt drive is slightly before my time. I will update when I install. Hopefully good news.

Post# 746593 , Reply# 11 3/31/2014 at 17:25 (3,671 days old) by whirlykenmore78 (Prior Lake MN (GMT-0500 CDT.))
Checkrate/Likes *Just on an hunch.* Have you tested the electrical continuity of the out of balance sensor? Exposure to water, heat, or debris can alter their effectiveness and in some cases cause these electronics to become hypersensitive. WK78

Post# 746781 , Reply# 13 4/1/2014 at 11:45 (3,670 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)
Checkrate/Likes *Off-Balance 1981 BD KM Washer* When I replied I did not realize that this model had an unbalance switch and it was only the off-balance switch tripping. RIP THAT SWITCH OUT, you do not need it only some KMs had it and NO WHIRLPOOL ever had it including Commercial models, no harm will result if you disconnect the switch, as an authorized WP servicer for almost 40 years we disconnected hundreds of these stupid OBSs, you will never miss it, it will not hurt the washer if it bumps a few times as it gets going into the spin cycle. These switches were only on some Sears models and were a sales gimmick to get people to spend more on a fancier model.

Post# 746871 , Reply# 15 4/1/2014 at 19:06 (3,670 days old) by DADoES (TX,�U.S. of A.)
Checkrate/Likes 1 � only some KMs had it and NO WHIRLPOOL ever had it including Commercial models ... Belt-drive Whirlys, right.� Direct-drive, the Catalyst does.

Post# 745933 , Reply# 9 3/28/2014 at 20:58 (3,674 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)
Checkrate/Likes Wow, a suds model, and one of only two models to ever have a DA agitator AND a manual clean filter - NEAT! That machine was made just a few weeks after the minor conversion to the "energy efficient" belt-drive which reduced water capacity from 25-26 gallons in a large capacity machine to 22. The conversion happened in summer 1981 and your machine was made in week 36, or early September. I don't see anything at first glance in your pics that looks out of the ordinary, but I'll check in more detail tonight when I can sit and study the pictures. Can you take a brief video? Gordon

Post# 746632 , Reply# 12 3/31/2014 at 20:54 (3,671 days old) by lorainfurniture (Cleveland )
Checkrate/Likes 1 I did not, but the tub is definitely going off balance. If I where to bypass the ob switch, the machine would surely start banging around. Diagnosing a worn part is a lot more challenging than diagnosing a broke part.

Post# 746856 , Reply# 14 4/1/2014 at 18:26 (3,670 days old) by lorainfurniture (Cleveland )
Checkrate/Likes I have disconnected a few back when I first got in to the appliance biz. I'll keep the wire nut as back up, but hopefully the snubber will solve the issue.

Post# 749169 , Reply# 16 4/10/2014 at 17:02 (3,661 days old) by lorainfurniture (Cleveland )
Checkrate/Likes Snubber seemed to have little to no effect. I replaced both snubber and spring. The wife says that it only goes off balance on cotton sturdy and not pp, or delicate. Does the washer have a 2 speed motor? I was under the impression that it was one speed. I will bypasss the ob switch to keep things moving unless someone can help me find the smoking gun. This really has my curiosity because obviously it has been fine for the last 30+ years.

Post# 749208 , Reply# 17 4/10/2014 at 19:14 (3,661 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)
Checkrate/Likes *Off-Balance 1981 BD KM Washer* Hi did you ever get a chance to see if the transmission braces are still in place and tight? This is likely a 2SP washer, you can tell by seeing if there an orange wire connecting to the motor, if it is a 2SP machine it would use the lower speed for spinning on PP and delicate. John L.

Post# 749214 , Reply# 18 4/10/2014 at 19:45 (3,661 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)
Checkrate/Likes This is definitely, without a doubt, a 2-speed machine. It is 70-series machine in case anyone is curious. John's suggestion about the braces definitely needs to be addressed. If this were my issue, and I found the braces secure, I would energize spin with the basket empty and see what the tub does in regard to oscilations during acceleration. If that is fine, I would then check what is being washed in these loads that go out of balance. My experience with these machines has taught me to be aware of what I am loading if I blend say a 60% load of big towels with gym shorts and t-shirts. Sometimes things can shift to where the bulk of the towels are on one side and the much lighter jersey shorts and Ts end up on the other. My washers usually protest in that situation, especially if slightly too much water is used, which allows things to really move around. If your wife is accustomed to loading a washer that way, this might be your culprit. Most of the time now I don't wash all my gym stuff in one load. Gordon

Post# 749229 , Reply# 19 4/10/2014 at 23:08 (3,661 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA)
Checkrate/Likes *Not washing your gym stuff in one load...* But Gordon, you told me you did that as an excuse to be able to enjoy using the Reno washer more often... RCD

Post# 749236 , Reply# 20 4/11/2014 at 00:01 (3,661 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)
Checkrate/Likes Andy - I simply wash towels with towels now, shirts and shorts with other knits, etc. like it should have been in the first place. G

Post# 751316 , Reply# 21 4/19/2014 at 21:30 (3,652 days old) by lorainfurniture (Cleveland )
Checkrate/Likes *Update:* Replaced snubber, problem still persists, but not nearly as much as before. Once in a great while it will still go ob, but I believe the machine is working as it should. To answer about the supports, everything seems to be there. Here is a pic. If only there is a way now to get this thing to spin a bit faster.....

Post# 751317 , Reply# 22 4/19/2014 at 21:31 (3,652 days old) by lorainfurniture (Cleveland )
Checkrate/Likes Another pic