Thread Number: 52391
New Whirlpool FL Washers Use MORE Water
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Post# 747080   4/2/2014 at 12:13 (3,647 days old) by joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA)        

joe_in_philly's profile picture
Comparing similar models, the new models appear to use more water and energy based on Energy Star website information. Although Whirlpool's FL washer's performance is rated fairly highly rated by consumer reports, perhaps Whirlpool realized that they needed to use more water and possibly higher temps to increase performance. I think that is a good thing. Hopefully they didn't decrease the top final spin speed, which is 1400RPM in the current model.

The WFW94HEA* model is the current model, and the WFW95HED* model will be coming out soon.

Some Observations:
1) The Modified Energy Factor (MEF). The higher the value, the more efficient the washer. The new model has a lower MEF.

2) The Water Factor (WF). The lower the value, the more water efficient the washer. The new model has a higher WF.

3) The Annual Water Used is 4582.87 for the old model, and 5280.24 for the new model.





This post was last edited 04/02/2014 at 16:21



Post# 747084 , Reply# 1   4/2/2014 at 12:38 (3,647 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
A Good Thing...

mrb627's profile picture
Now if they would just do something about those GOD AWFUL KNOBS!

Malcolm


Post# 747087 , Reply# 2   4/2/2014 at 12:51 (3,647 days old) by joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA)        

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I think the new knob (top control panel) looks better than the old one.



Post# 747091 , Reply# 3   4/2/2014 at 13:13 (3,647 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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I noticed the same thing in the Consumer Reports ratings. The very similar Whirlpool-made Maytags are rated as Excellent in water efficiency, while the upper-end Whirlpools are rated Very Good, leading one to assume they use a bit more water than the Maytags.

I prefer the Whirlpool 98 model to the top-of-the-line Maytag 8000 due to added flexibility in using the Extra Hot water setting in several cycles. You don't have to choose the Sanitize cycle, which is really, really long on the PoolTags.



Post# 747107 , Reply# 4   4/2/2014 at 15:09 (3,647 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

This would be great news if a manufacturer finally realized that their units are not using enough water. The new model looks to have a slightly larger volume, so I wonder if the extra water will amount to better rinses. I guess it would if it wasn't filled to capacity but if the machine matches the water to the load size...I donno.

Hey I like knobs so no problem for me.

Will be great to see videos of these new machines.


Post# 747119 , Reply# 5   4/2/2014 at 15:54 (3,647 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
So glad you posted this

mark_wpduet's profile picture
What a relief! My Duet from 2005 is 9 years old this month. I've been DREADING the thought of buying a new front load washer over the years because each year, the water usage got lower and lower.......and now, that seems not to be the case

Post# 747121 , Reply# 6   4/2/2014 at 16:18 (3,647 days old) by joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA)        

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My HE3t is almost 11 years old, so I am trying to plan ahead when it is time to replace it.

Post# 747150 , Reply# 7   4/2/2014 at 17:48 (3,647 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
The earlier WP made Duet's and HE3t's

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must be pretty good machines. I've heard of several people mention theirs is approaching 11 years old. I think they were made in Germany, at least mine was.

Post# 747184 , Reply# 8   4/2/2014 at 21:30 (3,647 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Yes,

launderess's profile picture
Seem to recall the early launched WP Duet washers were made in Germany

Post# 747210 , Reply# 9   4/2/2014 at 23:38 (3,647 days old) by A440 ()        

Great information Joe! Thanks!
My original Kenmore Elite is almost 12 years old. W/D set. They are still working as the day they were new. I have never had an issue with the dryer except for the usual cleaning to keep it "lint-free". The washer had to have a new front seal done and it was easily done by me. (and it was my fault for the damage) It also needed a new drain pump that was so easy to fix. Everything else is original. Fantastic cleaning and I never do small loads.
Glad you posted this about the new machines.
Brent


Post# 747213 , Reply# 10   4/3/2014 at 00:02 (3,647 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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I think the WFW 9750 was one of the last Germany-made units under the Whirlpool brand. Guess that would be the HE5t under the Kenmore name. Not sure about Maytag. The Sport models were made in Mexico.

I think the earlier models were more fun in some ways. After the interim spin, I have seen the new models come to a full stop before filling. Mine still keeps the drum at distribution speed for some time while filling and some even earlier models distributed until they stopped filling.


Post# 747271 , Reply# 11   4/3/2014 at 09:06 (3,646 days old) by roscoe62 (Canada)        
newer duets

have direct drive, how does this compare to the older machines, is it more durable or short lived?

Post# 747287 , Reply# 12   4/3/2014 at 09:57 (3,646 days old) by joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA)        

joe_in_philly's profile picture
My HE3t has a flow meter, so it measure how much water is used for the wash part of the cycle, and then does a calculation adding a certain amount extra for the rinse. So it doesn't need to measure the water level when filling for the rinses. If I divert a little water out of the drawer during the wash fill into a bucket, the rinses will fill to a much deeper level than are normal.

The newer WP FL washers, at least the models without the automatic detergent dispensers, do not have a flow meter. It is my guess that they need to be able to measure the water in the drum during the rinse fill, so they don't spin while filling. Many years ago when the duet first came out, I remember viewing a video of a whirlpool rep talking about a whirlpool patent for FL washers that involved the spin-fill - saying that it pulled more of the detergent solution out of the load for better rinsing. I believe the newer WP washer have longer spins after the wash than the older ones, increasing rinsing effectiveness. When the first FL came out in the US, low sudsing detergent wasn't as ubiquitous, so WP washers were designed with a brief spin after the wash, possibly to avoid stirring up too much suds. Ironically, the spin-fill seems to create suds, especially with loads like towels, although they quickly subside once the rinse begins.



Post# 747300 , Reply# 13   4/3/2014 at 11:52 (3,646 days old) by A440 ()        

I can remember a commercial that Whirlpool had talking about "Catalyst Cleaning". It would of course show the Whirlpool Catalyst toploader spinning with the soap mixture then fresh water entering, but it also showed the Duet Spinning while fresh water entered into the drum.

Post# 747312 , Reply# 14   4/3/2014 at 13:07 (3,646 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Fast-forward to 5:15. I wish mine did that!






Post# 747322 , Reply# 15   4/3/2014 at 13:56 (3,646 days old) by joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA)        

joe_in_philly's profile picture
That is how mine works. There is no clean washer cycle on my washer, but the outer drum is completely clean. I think the spin fill keeps the outer drum clean.

Post# 747354 , Reply# 16   4/3/2014 at 16:46 (3,646 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Whirlpool - Bauknecht

launderess's profile picture
IIRC first few years of the Duet series came from Whirlpool's Bauknecht factories which makes sense. That is where "larger" commercial front loaders for the German market were produced for years, thus the R&D and other expertise was already in-house as it were.

www.whirlpoolcorp.com/brands/bauk...






Post# 747399 , Reply# 17   4/3/2014 at 20:25 (3,646 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Hm, that washer seems strangely familiar to me! ;-)

Bauknecht produced the Duets (and its siblings) from 2001 until 2012 in Germany.


Post# 747428 , Reply# 18   4/3/2014 at 21:56 (3,646 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Does it now ?

launderess's profile picture
Wonder why that could be! *LOL*

Post# 747429 , Reply# 19   4/3/2014 at 21:59 (3,646 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
My Lavamat

launderess's profile picture
Will do spin fills on rinses using the famous "jet spray" as well. Yes, it does whip up quite a bit of froth. Sometimes you think the water will be clear but soon as enough is in the tub that the load becomes saturated, out comes the suds if detergent residue is present.

Post# 747676 , Reply# 20   4/4/2014 at 20:16 (3,645 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Joe - in - Philly

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I can't remember if it was you or someone else, but on my Duet, I can hit a certain sequence and get a real clean washer cycle. I posted this a few years ago, but it wasn't working on some other people's machines.....So either my machine has old or new software.....

It's been a while since I've used it on mine, but I think it's :

Rinse/Spin Warm/Cold/ Low Spin speed/ Cycle signal softer, and press extra rinse three times.


Post# 747694 , Reply# 21   4/4/2014 at 22:13 (3,645 days old) by joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA)        

joe_in_philly's profile picture
Thanks. I tried again now, and still haven't been able to get it to work. I even tried adjusting the settings up and down a position since my HE3t has extra settings (like extra slow spin/tap cold), thinking maybe it is a positional thing. I think my washer is the first version of this line.

Post# 747907 , Reply# 22   4/5/2014 at 19:05 (3,644 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Yes

mark_wpduet's profile picture
For example, mine doesn't have prewash......so on the machines with prewash or autosoak, I think those buttons are used in the sequence.......but since you tried that, it must be a software thing......Mine was built in Germany in Oct 2004.

Too bad, because it's an AWESOME Cycle. The only thing I don't like about it is it doesn't use very hot water. More warm water and a lot of it and the motions are crazy and fast with water going everywhere. It would be better if the water got hot. The drum is barely warm when it's over.


Post# 747967 , Reply# 23   4/5/2014 at 23:23 (3,644 days old) by zipdang (Portland, OR)        
hidden clean washer cycle

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I've got the KitchenAid version of the Duet and have tried every combination of buttons I can think of but can't get any clean washer cycle to activate. It was made in Germany in 2006.

Post# 748188 , Reply# 24   4/6/2014 at 18:56 (3,643 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
There is a thread I posted about this

mark_wpduet's profile picture
a few years ago.......I think we ended up determining that perhaps that cycle was added perhaps for a few months on the production line, then taken off? Only to be added again with a dedicated clean waster button..I'll see if I can find it.......Hold....Found it



CLICK HERE TO GO TO mark_wpduet's LINK


Post# 748258 , Reply# 25   4/6/2014 at 22:36 (3,643 days old) by zipdang (Portland, OR)        

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Hey Mark, thanks for the link. I reread the old thread and tried all the suggested sequences, plus a bunch of variations of them, but came up empty. Since most of the parts in the KitchenAid are the same as those in your Duet, and they were probably both built in the same factory in Germany around the same time, it's weird that the hidden cycle is on some machines but not others. I can understand why it wouldn't show up on a Kenmore branded version, but Whirlpool and KitchenAid are brandmates and it seems like they'd share programming or something. But no, apparently not.

Post# 748326 , Reply# 26   4/7/2014 at 05:42 (3,642 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
I know

mark_wpduet's profile picture
strange indeed.

But I can say this..........

I really could do without that cycle, even though it's fun to have. The only time I use it is if I've washed something like the cat blankets or something the cat has slept on......and the machine will have hair in it.....it flushes all the hair out.......but it still doesn't clean down in the door seal as good as it should, I think because the temp of the water never gets above warm. It needs to be HOT HOT HOT, then it would do much better. (at least on mine)...I still get coffee maker hot water and a clean rag with rubber gloves to clean the inside of the door seal every so often.....doesn't take much time.


Post# 748388 , Reply# 27   4/7/2014 at 09:54 (3,642 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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None of the European models ever had a cleaning cycle either. :-/


Post# 748550 , Reply# 28   4/7/2014 at 19:36 (3,642 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Logixxx

mark_wpduet's profile picture
Do the door seals in the Euro machines still need to be cleaned? I can imagine that they would, even though they use more water. I notice the area that needs to be cleaned is from the 4 o'clock to the 8 o'clock positions (for me very occasionally) and I'm sure more often for those with bad laundry habits.

Post# 748560 , Reply# 29   4/7/2014 at 19:52 (3,642 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture

I don't think I'd really need to clean the door boot unless I oversuds the machine, while washing something in there that sheds a lot of lint. Once the suds are gone, lint will still stick to the door boot (yes, four and eight o' clock) and needs to be wiped off. I still do, however, wipe everything with a small towel just to keep the washer in immaculate condition and to avoid these pesky water spots that we get here from the well water.

 

Oh, and about my comment on the universal lack of cleaning cycles: that was just referring to our "Duets" - other washers have them now. Generally, Euro machines also use little water - it's the extra cycles that will get the water level up like this rinse on Delicates:


Post# 750157 , Reply# 30   4/15/2014 at 00:08 (3,635 days old) by footleg ()        
Does this help my choice

New to the game, and intrigued by the additional water usage of the impending new Whirlpool (WFW95HED*), because the paucity of water has struck me (from afar) as a detractor for the FLs.

A new machine for me is in the cards (due to the constellation of difficulties which beset the aging Maytag TL), and SWMBO has an ax to grind with the destructive qualities of the agitator on her dainties; and not to hijack this thread in the SQ direction, but I'm drawn to its vital American-ness.

So the question I pose is this: SQ TL (AWN542) or FL WP (WFW96HEA or WFW95HED when it arrives) or do I go toward the Fisher & Paykel? My searches have narrowed the decision to this tripod. To me the relevant aspects boil down in this order:

1. Does it get the clothes clean without destroying them?
2. Is it reliable?
3. Is it Made in the USA?

I would have to go with the F&P if it could fulfilled the requirements of #s 1& 2 and the WP-FL and SQ-TL could not, but #3 matters. Am I right in thinking that the SQ & WP are American made? Will they clean and not destroy (the clothes or themselves)?

Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi... you're my only hope...


Post# 750424 , Reply# 31   4/15/2014 at 23:40 (3,634 days old) by DigAPony ()        
3. Is it Made in the USA?

Home Depot specs for their current Whirlpool Duet line states: "American Pride. Buy with confidence knowing this model is dependably designed, engineered and assembled in the U.S.A."

Note: Key word is "assembled" many parts could be still be sourced elsewhere, but still sounds better than Made in Mexico.

I say go with the WP to keep peace in the house and meet your other concerns as well.




CLICK HERE TO GO TO DigAPony's LINK


Post# 750458 , Reply# 32   4/16/2014 at 06:34 (3,633 days old) by Pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)        

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The tv show How It's Made is broadcasting a segment on washing machines tomorrow at 9pm EST. The segment was filmed in Clyde, OH at Whirlpool's washer plant. They filmed Whirlpool front load washers. (The platform is called Alpha for those interested...)

Post# 750479 , Reply# 33   4/16/2014 at 08:50 (3,633 days old) by GeorgeCT (Fairfield, CT)        
Pulsator...thanks for the heads up.

georgect's profile picture
I got the DVR ready to record that episode of "How It's Made", should be interesting.

Post# 751015 , Reply# 34   4/18/2014 at 18:13 (3,631 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Saw it

mrb627's profile picture
Just finished watching the how it's made episode and I have to say, I'm not very impressed. Very short piece. Did they have to blur the brand name? Sadly, it appears that LG has surpassed Whirlpool in machine design. The tub bearings on the LG are a modular unit that connects to the tub and not pressed into the back requiring the rear portion of the drum to be replaced after a failure.

May not prove anything long term for LG, but it does seem like a step in the right direction.

Malcolm


Post# 751146 , Reply# 35   4/19/2014 at 08:42 (3,630 days old) by GeorgeCT (Fairfield, CT)        
I feel you Malcolm...

georgect's profile picture
I didn't think it was that interesting either.
They just showed the big parts being put together, not how the drum was made or the control board being put together.
You can see the same thing on Youtube of a washer being dismantled and put back together.

I noticed the blurred Maytag logo but they showed the Maxima XL name.


Post# 751212 , Reply# 36   4/19/2014 at 12:36 (3,630 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Yes - just watched it

mark_wpduet's profile picture
I don't have that channel on Directv because I downgraded my package a while back - but, I found it online and watched it......

Yep - that's Whirlpool. I could see a LOT of similarities with my Duet from 2005. God , they need to put an access panel for that drain pump! WTH??? Why don't they do that? So stupid!!

I do like Whirlpool..I've hardly had any trouble with my appliances that are all WP....and I will have lived here 10 yrs in Sept. KNOCK ON WOOD!!!! - But, I think the LG washers look cooler to me. And the cool way they operate, with the jets, etc.

Still torn on what to get when I do ultimately have to replace my washer.....

Oh, and PS! A friend that has had a Frigidaire front load washer that is 5 years old sold hers and she replaced it with a TL washer. She felt it didn't use enough water and wanted a TL......(Whatever), but anyway......I went to look to see what the Fridigdaire FL washer looked like........I thought it looked and felt cheap as hell. It must have been a BOL.. But hey, she had no trouble out of it for five years and no someone else will be using it.



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