Thread Number: 52626
Speed Queen AWN412 vs AWN542
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Post# 748894   4/9/2014 at 15:51 (3,641 days old) by carly1 ()        

I am interested in purchasing a Speed Queen top loader to replace the 36-year old Maytag A106 that I have been using. The Speed Queen dealership in my town only sells two models, the AWN412 and AWN542. I'm having trouble deciding between these two models. I have a few questions that I hope someone on here can answer for me.

The salesman claims that the only differences between the 412 and 542 is that the 542 has an extra rinse switch and a fabric selector control that offers a few more choices for agitation and spin speeds. The 36-year old washer that I have been using for most of my life did not have any of these these features so I really wonder if these extra features would ever be used and if the 542 is worth $100 more in price. If I never needed an extra rinse or to change agitation and spin speeds while using my old Maytag A106, why would I need these extra features when using the Speed Queen? Does the Speed Queen agitate or spin more strongly than my Maytag A106? I am also concerned that the the extra features might make this model less reliable in the long run. Does anyone know if there is any differences in reliability between these two models?





Post# 748920 , Reply# 1   4/9/2014 at 17:00 (3,641 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
I have the 542 and really appreciate the four agitate/spin speed combinations. Worth the extra money, especially since you are obviously going to keep the machine for the long haul. I use the slow agitation/fast spin (called Knits) quite often, especially with small-to-medium sized loads.

Post# 748925 , Reply# 2   4/9/2014 at 17:34 (3,641 days old) by washman (o)        
Well Carly since Frigilux

appointed me Patronus Absolutus of all things Speed Queen, permit me to help you with your decision. FYI my certificate is on hold as Frig could not find his online certification but I will act as an Ambassador Emeritus in this capacity.


Frig correctly pointed out the differences. Under the hood, so to speak, everything is the same save for the timer and the fabric selector switch and the extra rinse switch.
I use the extra rise about 50-60% of the time, especially when I use a high sudsing detergent or like a doofus, overdose the load. My former GE also had this and I find it to be very convenient.

The mechanicals of both models are the same. Same motor, same trans, same tub etc. Same agitator also.

Regardless of which one you choose, you will be well served by this fine machine. It is the last, and I do mean last, of the old school TL machines that puts YOU in control of how you handle your laundry. It will use plenty of water. It does a spin drain. Having not seen your Maytag in action, I cannot comment on the agitation "strength" vis a vis the Speed Queen.

SQ site lists the agitation stroke of 210 degrees but some on this forum, myself included, have found it to be somewhat less. I think a more accurate measure of the "strength" is the number of strokes per minute. Speed Queen checks in at 68. The spin speeds are 710 normal, 473 RPM for delicate.

For models purchased in 2014, in addition to an industry leading warranty, you now get 15 years on the transmission. What a testament to the quality SQ puts in their machines to offer such a long warranty!

Quirks? Yes there are a couple. First, "warm" is just plain borderline cool. This is due to meddlesome government regulation that puts the fill bias way towards cold with a teeny bit of hot. I put a post on here that describes the flow rate of hot and cold. Naturally the way to work around that for a true warm wash is to start hot then switch to warm depending on how warm you want it to be.

Second, even on "max fill" the water will fill about 1-2 inches below the top row of holes in the inner tub. This is fixable and there is a youtube vid that clearly shows how it is done. Or you could hold the fill to "reset" until it fills to your liking. Me, I did the permanent fix so I could fill and go and post stuff about Speed Queen on here!

Finally and this is purely subjective, is the appearance. Some find it a throwback to 1970's designs. Others find it attractively homely. For me, I could care less what it looks like as I never have regarded a washing machine as a piece of decoration or something I look at when I visits friend's homes. Some go ga-ga over colors like colbalt blue, hot pink, flame red, burnt orange and the like but I always had plain jane white appliances and have no ill effects of not having color matched my new machine to my existing furniture.

Unlike the picky FL machines and the joke of a washer HE TL machines, you can use whatever detergent you like in this machine. In other words use what you used in your Maytag.

I attached a vid link of my very machine in operation. Notice the rollover washing small cleaning rags in TAP hot water! Not dumbed down eco sanctioned hot, but hot, they way I like it. I have other vids too with various loads that you can watch to get a feel for how the agitation.

I hope this was helpful to you.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO washman's LINK


Post# 748926 , Reply# 3   4/9/2014 at 17:35 (3,641 days old) by washman (o)        
The knits/delicate cycle






Post# 748968 , Reply# 4   4/9/2014 at 19:27 (3,641 days old) by JeffG ()        

"Naturally the way to work around that for a true warm wash is to start hot then switch to warm depending on how warm you want it to be."

That would require several minutes of manual intervention for most (or maybe every) load.

The preferred fix is to drill out the flow restrictor on the hot water inlet in the washer valve. It's a quick procedure and more than one set of directions/photos can be found here on AW. Although probably more work for most people, an alternative is to find and install an older valve that isn't flow restricted.

As for the speed dial, as with many other features, if your old washer didn't have one you likely wouldn't miss it on a new washer. But once you learn how to use the speed selections it's hard to imagine not having them. :)


Post# 748969 , Reply# 5   4/9/2014 at 19:31 (3,641 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Carly, the tub on a Speed Queen will seem downright cavernous compared to the little one on your Maytag.  Considering this, the maximum fill level won't seem skimpy to you. 

 

I'm not a Maytag expert, but I suspect that even if your 106 can be fixed, it would be an involved process that would perhaps require hunting down parts, and it sounds like you can't afford to be without a washer for very long.

 

Unlike your Maytag, Speed Queens can wear out their belts.  That's probably the only repair you would have to anticipate over the life of the machine, and if you or someone you know is handy, it's supposedly a DIY repair.

 

I vote for the extra rinse option.  The Speed Queen does a short spray rinse early in the spin cycle -- not nearly as long as the spray rinse your Maytag provides.  You may end up wishing you had the extra rinse option.   It's strange that your dealer doesn't carry the 432, which offers the extra rinse.  Could they order one for you?

 


Post# 749013 , Reply# 6   4/9/2014 at 23:39 (3,641 days old) by DigAPony ()        
Speed Queen agitate or spin more strongly

The A106 spins at 618 rpm, the Speed Queen tops out at 710 rpm, about a 15% increase over the Maytag, but whose counting..

I like Speed Queen, but seriously doubt it will challenge the 36 years of service the Maytag provided.


Post# 749017 , Reply# 7   4/10/2014 at 00:30 (3,641 days old) by carly1 ()        
Thanks

Thanks everyone for the advice. I think the 432 model would serve me well but I'm not willing to wait 3 weeks for my dealer to get more in. If the Speed Queen has a shorter rinse in the spin cycle than my old Maytag, I think I will go with the 532 just so I can get this extra rinse feature. Does anyone know how much extra time a full load takes when using the extra rinse feature? Since I'm on septic, I'm also curious to know if the machine uses significantly more water when extra rinse is selected.

Post# 749018 , Reply# 8   4/10/2014 at 00:39 (3,641 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
The Extra Rinse feature on the Speed Queen provides a second deep rinse, so the tub would fill with water again. Using the Extra Rinse option will add another 21 gallons of water use to a cycle.

A regular cycle does this: Wash, Spin, Deep Rinse, Final Spin. (Just like your Maytag)
A regular cycle plus an Extra Rinse does this: Wash, Spin, Deep Rinse, Spin, Deep Rinse, Final Spin.

The Extra Rinse feature is nice to have if you ever feel like a load needs a 2nd deep rinse, but a regular cycle washes and rinses clothes just like your Maytag did.

As you noted, if you never needed to add an extra rinse with your Maytag, you won't need to with the Speed Queen. I bought the AWN542 for the flexibility of agitation/spin speeds. I don't recall ever using the Extra Rinse option.




Post# 749021 , Reply# 9   4/10/2014 at 01:18 (3,641 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
SQ vs. Maytag 106 Spray Rinse

rp2813's profile picture

Eugene, with all due respect, I must disagree with the statement that "a regular cycle washes and rinses clothes just like your Maytag did."  Generally speaking it does, but . . .

 

The spray rinse on the SQ is much shorter than the one on the Maytag.  A deep rinse is a deep rinse, but IMO that short spray on the SQ isn't enough to extract as much detergent residue as the longer Maytag spray.  In addition, the SQ spray rinse can often begin before the tub is at full spin speed, so its effect is diminished.  The Maytag allows more time for the tub to reach full speed and really force the spray through the load.

 

We owned an Amana for several years.  It was a Speed Queen clone.  After we replaced it with a Duet, we had overly sudsy loads due to the detergent residue still in the clothes that had been processed through the Amana, even though I very often used the extra rinse option with that machine.  After seeing a modern day SQ in action, it doesn't appear that anything has changed with the spray rinse.

 

My advice to Carly would be to use less detergent in order to possibly get away with just a single deep rinse if the septic system is a concern.  Also, the SQ tub is much larger, so full loads are going to use a lot more water than the Maytag did.  Even with a single rinse you're going to be using more water  per cycle than you did with the Maytag, but you should be doing fewer loads as a result of having the extra capacity, so overall your septic system could end up processing less, and an occasional extra rinse wouldn't tax it.


Post# 749022 , Reply# 10   4/10/2014 at 01:26 (3,641 days old) by JeffG ()        

I second Ralph's comments about the SQ spray rinse. One spray just isn't enough, and the difference in rinsing performance between one and two (or, like the old Lady K's, three) is so dramatic, I'm at a loss to understand Alliance's decision. Many years ago a repairman (who otherwise seemed entirely sane) told us nobody other than Sears/Kenmore was allowed to have more than one spray rinse because of patent issues. I've heard stranger stories but who knows.

Post# 749058 , Reply# 11   4/10/2014 at 05:04 (3,641 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Spin Spray?

mrb627's profile picture
What is everybody's problem with the spin spray rinse?
Whirlpool all but did away with the spin spray on their machines years ago.

When I switched from a traditional top loader to a front loader, I never had any residual
sudsing from detergent left behind by my old washer's alleged poor rinsing.

Malcolm


Post# 749098 , Reply# 12   4/10/2014 at 09:04 (3,641 days old) by washman (o)        
I tend to agree Malcolm

The spray rinse is sort of moot when you have a deep rinse in most any TL machine.

Post# 749101 , Reply# 13   4/10/2014 at 09:31 (3,641 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
detergents from the 70/80's were high sudssing and left a lot of residue...extra rinsing always seemed a must for loads like towels...

todays detergents are all heading for HE, and can be used in conventional machines, the added benefit is low to no suds, making rinsing a lot easier for any machine....


almost any septic service company will insist on getting that washer piped somewhere else rather than dumping it into the tank, not everyone can do this, but gray water tanks are common for this type of output, and some just let it go onto the ground...

I am puzzled why gray water tanks aren't a standard with a septic system.....the exact guys who installed and service ours, insisted we get the washer off of that line....you would think that both tanks are put into place at the same time.....

a gray water tank is nothing more than a 50 to 100 gallon tank, surrounded by a lot of stone, along the same lines as the regular septic....nothing that can't be done on your own....


Post# 749111 , Reply# 14   4/10/2014 at 11:03 (3,640 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
New SQ Washer

combo52's profile picture
Hi Carly, the very best SQ washer choice you can make is the SQ Front Load machine, especially if you are concerned about total water usage on your septic system. Not only will the SQ FL washer do a far better job of washing-rinsing-spinning your laundry that either your old MT or even a new SQ TL washer.

That said the SQ FL washer is very expensive however it will easily pay for itself several times over compared to the cost of running another regular TL washer [ the life expediency of a SQ FL washer is approximately twice the expected life of their TL washers, you are going from 20-25 years, to close to 50 years with the FL machine.

If purchasing the SQ TL washer I would just get the AWN-412, as a SQ dealer we sell the 412 almost 10 to 1 compared to the 542. The speed selector switch on the 542s is a weak spot and the extra rinse feature is just plain wasteful, and in addition to all the extra water and electricity it wastes it causes the washer about 50% more wear every time you do a load and use this setting.


Post# 749118 , Reply# 15   4/10/2014 at 11:38 (3,640 days old) by JeffG ()        

"and the extra rinse feature is just plain wasteful"

also

"The spray rinse is sort of moot when you have a deep rinse in most any TL machine."

Guys this amounts to outright disinformation. If this or any feature is "just plain wasteful" it would not survive over a half century.




This post was last edited 04/10/2014 at 12:18
Post# 749130 , Reply# 16   4/10/2014 at 13:05 (3,640 days old) by mtn1584 (USA)        
Combo....

I don't understand your logic that the fabric selector/speed switch is a weak spot.
Mike


Post# 749132 , Reply# 17   4/10/2014 at 13:18 (3,640 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Our intentions are always so good...but I sometimes wonder if our attention to detail leaves drop-by's like Carly more confused than when they arrived.

And on top of that, Carly, we'd love for you to drop by this thread and let us know which machine you wind up purchasing.

Hope we've helped more than we've obfuscated, LOL!

:-)



Post# 749139 , Reply# 18   4/10/2014 at 14:26 (3,640 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)        

kenmoreguy89's profile picture
The fact of SQ front loader washing, rinsing and spinning better than a top loader is relative, you may have people saying just the opposite...at least for what concerns washing and rinsing.
My suggestion will be simple, just go for what has more features, there always will be those times when they'll become handy, but whenever to wait or not, this is up to you...just think about the features and potential use you may do of them, sure if you are corcened about rinsing, better having a machine that does double rinses...then you may even easily be happy with the regular rinse only, but more features sooner or later always pays off during time, at least, so is for me...





Post# 749196 , Reply# 19   4/10/2014 at 18:08 (3,640 days old) by washer111 ()        

Even though you are coming from what amounts to a Bottom-of-the-Line Maytag, I would still recommend spending the little extra money on a machine that has the choice of slower agitation and/or spin speeds, along with the extra-rinse function, depending on your mindset and your house's waters supply:

 

When you consider you might have clothing that is more susceptible to damage than others - the extra speed selection will save you on clothes bills since the agitator won't be beating the clothes into submission (as much). 

 

If you have an "abundant" supply of Well-Water, then I wouldn't be too concerned about the comments on the extra water usage seen with Extra Rinses.

If the supply can get sketchy under high-load situations, I would be more inclined to lean towards the FL machines, but I (personally) find the SQ ones are slightly lacking in terms of the control they offer the user - Compared to their traditional TIMER-based TL machines, I consider them inferior... 

 

Even though the FL isn't very customisable, you can alter the water level set by the factory by adjusting the water pressure switch under the cover.  This would give better rinsing than the two default rinses and "suds flush" between distributing-spins the machine does.

So, you can get more rinses for far less water expended AND dryer clothes to boot at the end of the cycle. If you use a tumble-dryer this means BIG SAVINGS!

 

I'm not sure about the cleaning power of the FL machines SQ offers, especially with the way the Water Inlets are likely to be setup, and the lack of heater.***

But, if you keep your water heater reasonably hot (from around 140º) this should be enough on the Warm/Hot settings to combat most of the " cold thermal mass" of the washer and accompanying laundry. 

If you end up "pining" for a true hot-wash, then you can start the machine empty on a "hot" cycle, cancel after the machine fills, add laundry and start over. No, not exactly "automatic," but its better than "Eco-Mandated" "hot" you'll find on a lot, if not ALL other machines on sale today. 

 

*** Several members on the forums here have the Speed-Queen-FL machines, and have been quite pleased with their laundering ability, especially given hot water and a GOOD detergent. Some loads, like loads of Whites, might need some Chlorine-Bleach to help things along a bit. 

At least in the U.S., the FL machines SQ offers wash very quickly, so that's your tradeoff: Eco-Mandated machines that take 1:30hrs (or more) and clean well, having followed instructions or machines that don't take quite as long, but might not clean as well. The exception, of course, is the Top-Loader, which from the reports stated around here seem capable of doing most loads of laundry very well in a very reasonable amount of time (with reasonably large quantities of water). 

 

I'll add here, since it might be useful, if you already have a 240v electrical supply at your house, depending on service availability, you should be able to get your hands onto a European-style Front-Loader.

The added voltage is of GREAT benefit to these machines, as they can heat the water from tap-cold to near boiling, or anything cooler in very reasonable amounts of time. You also get a "profiled" wash, thanks to the cold-inlet and gradual heating to high temperatures. 

Given proper understanding of one of these machine's operation, and thus a correct understanding of how to effectively utilise this sort of machine, then I would hazard to suggest you could probably get better cleaning than either of the SQ offerings around the same price-point. 

At least here in Australia, buying the Miele washer was (from memory) about $200 cheaper than the SQ-TL machine, and about $300-$400 cheaper than the FL machine. 


Post# 749216 , Reply# 20   4/10/2014 at 20:47 (3,640 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
New TL SQs

combo52's profile picture
The 2nd deep rinse is a very wasteful feature, few if any TL washers had this feature 50 yaers ago and the lack of it is one of many reasons the Carlas MT A106 lasted this long.

The speed switch can be a weak point on the AWN542s because the full sustained motor current travels through this Chinese made switch, we see these switches fail on SQ and WP DD washers as well, and depending on how it fails it can take an expensive motor along with it.

The overall performance advantages of new FL washers are well documented, so I will not attempt to address that at this time [ check out the thread, what do you like about your Hi Efficiency washer ].

To everyone, when I offer advice on appliance related issues I do so with experience learned from dozens if not hundreds of real customers that I have met face to face and discussed these issues with. A single persons experience holds little or no statistical significance and I do not to quote these limited experiences when writing about appliance issues.


Post# 749222 , Reply# 21   4/10/2014 at 22:04 (3,640 days old) by JeffG ()        

"To everyone, when I offer advice on appliance related issues I do so with experience learned from dozens if not hundreds of real customers that I have met face to face and discussed these issues with. "

You're far from the only one. Especially here. You've contributed a lot of helpful and accurate advice, but on some issues (the efficacy of cold water rinsing, somehow magically knowing that an extra rinse cycle will always be wasteful etc), you've been flat out wrong. Nobody is right about everything, but when corrected you tend to become stubborn and make even sillier claims about your own positions.


Post# 749250 , Reply# 22   4/11/2014 at 02:16 (3,640 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)        
Dear Combo 52...

kenmoreguy89's profile picture
Look, I do not want to start controversies or arguments, and if I reply is only because I consider you a good member and really I care about clearing things up with you, if it wasn't so I'd just ignore and abstain from replying further like I do with people I don't consider much in here, so please don't consider this as bitching or personal, I start with saying that of course everyone is free to share their opinions and findings and of course always trying to be helpful doing so, you found FL to be better and so you of course are going to suggest them, but I think it's wise trying not to talk as an absolute fact since, as we all know, not everyone is of this opinion and may strongly disagree, moreover suggesting to read a thread called....., "what do you like about your Hi Efficiency washer ]" you only give one part of the story...
I think it's normal that in a thread called "HE, ECO, Low water and Enerrgy let's hear your positive experiences" or " what you liike of your HE" you have people sharing their POSITIVE experiences and not ones having bad experiences to tell, since these threads calls out for people having good experiences, this does not mean that there are not many others that had negative experiences though!
Of course I don't talk based on my own experiences only either, but of the ones of many other people I had occasion to talk with directly or read their thoughts in various venues and occasions...
I think no-one can determine whatever has to be taken as an absolute inconceivable fact....
I cannot absolutely deny as you say that there are many people actually being happy with their FL, HE etc....but cannot deny the same way there're many others for which it's just the opposite....








This post was last edited 04/11/2014 at 03:01
Post# 749290 , Reply# 23   4/11/2014 at 12:02 (3,639 days old) by rll70sman (Hastings, Minnesota)        
AWN412

Carly,

I have the Speed Queen AWN412 and love it! It's a no-frills machine that gets the job done without lid locks, dumbed-down water temperatures, and fill flow restrictors. While I considered the extra features of the AWN542, I assumed that this model simply fulfilled another price point for Alliance. I asked myself, "Would I really use these features? Is there more that could possibly go wrong down the road?" The lady who sold me my washer and dryer said most people consider the AWN412 over other models higher up in the line. That finalized my decision....

Rob


Post# 749322 , Reply# 24   4/11/2014 at 14:34 (3,639 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
AWN412

mrb627's profile picture
It is still a 2 Speed Machine after all. You simply choose the speed with the cycle instead of an independent switch. Not a deal breaker either way.

Malcolm


Post# 749330 , Reply# 25   4/11/2014 at 14:54 (3,639 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Ditto what Malcom said.  The 412 is a two-speed, but the cycle selected dictates the speeds.  On the 452, you have more control over the speeds, that's all.

 

If it were up to me I'd find middle ground, wait for a 432 and keep using the 106 in the meantime. 


Post# 749354 , Reply# 26   4/11/2014 at 16:23 (3,639 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
On my choice of the 542: The 412 is a 2-speed machine, but you can only get slow agitation on the Delicate cycle, which utilizes an intermittent agitation/soak protocol. The 542 is the only SQ in which you can opt for continuous slow agitation using either the Regular or Perm Press cycles. I use the slow agitation/fast spin speed on those cycles quite often.

This may not be an important feature to others, but it's one I appreciate having.




This post was last edited 04/11/2014 at 16:54
Post# 749367 , Reply# 27   4/11/2014 at 17:48 (3,639 days old) by imperial70 (MA USA)        
Slow Agitation / Fas Spin

using it right now for a load of knit pants and shirts. They come out perfect in my AWN542. Second rinse? I'd rather have the 2nd rinse switch be an extended spin switch. I do use a second rinse but I find myself forgetting to turn the switch off and getting it when I don't want it. :-) Also, there is a long delay (IMHO) between final spin and second rinse.

That news about the Fabric select switch is somewhat disturbing. I wonder what causes the switch to fail. Switching it while the motor is running? If that's the case I'll turn off the machine before turning the fabric selector. Thanks for the heads up.



Post# 749374 , Reply# 28   4/11/2014 at 17:55 (3,639 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Arcing

mrb627's profile picture
I suppose changing the speed switch while the machine is operating could be the source of eventual contact failure. Better to be safe than sorry, I suppose.

In any case, someone coming from a Maytag A108 should be perfectly contented with an AWN412 machine.

Malcolm


Post# 749473 , Reply# 29   4/12/2014 at 08:08 (3,639 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Yikes! I switch the speed selector frequently while the machine is running, just to play around. Guess I'll stop doing that. Thanks for the heads-up on that, John.

Post# 749599 , Reply# 30   4/12/2014 at 19:23 (3,638 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Speed Selector Switch On SQ TL 542s

combo52's profile picture
I did not say not to change speeds when the machine is running, and I dough that it will make much difference if you do, often when we have seen these switches fail the customer reports that they never change this switches setting at all. I suppose that if you sat there and flipped the switch from setting to setting constantly it might shorten its life, but even if it is never changed a lot of current is going through the contacts and terminals of this switch and it could fail anyway.

Post# 749608 , Reply# 31   4/12/2014 at 20:30 (3,638 days old) by washman (o)        
Some clarification on a prior comment

""The spray rinse is sort of moot when you have a deep rinse in most any TL machine."

Guys this amounts to outright disinformation. If this or any feature is "just plain wasteful" it would not survive over a half century. "

Let me explain. Spray rinse ONLY occurs after the 1st drain and during 1st spin. It sprays for 30 seconds.

Then the washer fills for the 1st rinse. Then it spin drains. At no other point does the spray rinse kick in. Not even if you use the 2nd rinse option.

Not sure where you're coming from, but I hardly consider that statement to be misinformation. As Yogitunes pointed out, back in the day of high sudsing detergents, yes, it would matter. But not now with the HE approved liquids and low suds powders such as Sears.


Post# 749618 , Reply# 32   4/12/2014 at 21:41 (3,638 days old) by JeffG ()        

Washman, compare odors from two loads of laundry washed with LCB, one with a spray rinse and one without, and you'll understand why they're important. The simple reason is because no actual rinsing takes place during a deep rinse agitation. None. Residual detergent/bleach/etc is simply redistributed from clothes to the water. So the more of this residual that can be removed prior to the deep rinse, the better.


Post# 749665 , Reply# 33   4/13/2014 at 05:33 (3,638 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)        

kenmoreguy89's profile picture
I never and say never use LCB, but as for bleach and detergent I can fully see how it can be useful to a better deeper rinse, moreover it is not even matter of high or low sudsing detergent for me, I can tell you from an european point of view that really spray rinse makes a substantial difference with any detergent!
Even by using european (automatic low sudsing) detergents you get froth! and especially in low water settings,, and believe it or not in the filter flo I also get suds locks in large loads of towels and so on that spray rinse immediately dissolve, but it is not even a matter of froth, spray rinse really gives a first rinsing to clothes in order to be perfectly rinsed in the deep rinse, while playing with my machines I used to try to skip the spray rinse going directly to final spin and run the rinse, and could clearly see that water in the deep rinse was not as clear as if spray rinse was used, so had to repeat a second rinse....also, I could even experience that there was still so much detergent behind in the first rinse that additioned to the softener resulted in muck and scum....something that never happens when spray rinse is used as it take off a great part of detergent and makes a second rinse not needed most of the time for me...
Even by using low sudsing detergents I see the spray rinse a very good feature that gives a substantial improvement to the rinsing, would never want a machine without it!




This post was last edited 04/13/2014 at 07:03
Post# 749668 , Reply# 34   4/13/2014 at 06:04 (3,638 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)        

kenmoreguy89's profile picture
P.s
My 90s filter flo's heavy soil cycle does automatically two rinses, but most of the time I only need one....I wish there could be a selector to decide whenever use it or not....


Post# 749683 , Reply# 35   4/13/2014 at 08:17 (3,638 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
Fred....

your filterflo should offer both a regular cycle, and an extra cleaning regular with double rinse...

oddly enough I have one that offers both, extra cleaning with double rinse, and a regular cyle, with an optional switch for an extra rinse too...don't understand why both?

the only advantage to the extra cleaning cycle, double rinses, AND double spin sprays...according to the book, you are supposed to double the amount of detergent as well for great stain removal....


Post# 749696 , Reply# 36   4/13/2014 at 10:05 (3,637 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)        

kenmoreguy89's profile picture
You're right Yogi, but thought the extra cleaning wash time was longer than the regular?
If you watch, the distance from heavy to normal soil checks in the extra cleaning chart is greater than the one of the regular... Always thought it to be longer even though I've never timed it...but it was the most logical explanation, even because as you said there are models with a 2nd rinse switch for regular cycles also...

I usually manually skip the second rinse in the extra cleaning cycle....... Even though sometimes I decide to run a second rinse, especially when I use grated soap flakes or when I try detergents that result to be crappy ( badly formulated) and of which I need to put really great quantities....also, they often are crappy because are all about soda and fillers, pretty difficult to rinse....
Anyways..
I think putting a switch to select 1 or two rinses and giving one chart with different wash times/soil levels is smarter than this...







This post was last edited 04/13/2014 at 10:20
Post# 749705 , Reply# 37   4/13/2014 at 10:41 (3,637 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
thats the only bad thing when they cram so many cycles into one timer....for some it seems like overkill....

they could get away with a Regular, with option for second rinse, a Short cycle, and an Automatic Soak....with seperate speed selections, water temps and levels....that alone still would make these machines with endless combinations and variations...from Gentle to Perm Press, and MiniQuick to boot

and yet with something like the Hotpoints with only two cycles, it seems to wash forever...



Post# 750503 , Reply# 38   4/16/2014 at 11:07 (3,634 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        
Spray Rinse

mrboilwash's profile picture
I think a spray rinse *can* make a huge difference in the rinse performance of a toploader.
Anyone in doubt of its effectiveness just wash a large load in really hot water, then stop the washer after the first spin with the spray rinse and check how much the clothes have cooled down.
If the water of the spray would only bounce off the clothes instead of going through them, there wouldn`t be much cooling effect.

However personally I don`t like modern HE toploaders which only rely on spray rinses. I would be in constant fear of missing spots.

Also I never understood why Whirlpool switched to a spray rinse after the deep rinse instead of before. Thought detergent and fabric softener don`t mix well.




This post was last edited 04/16/2014 at 12:41
Post# 750518 , Reply# 39   4/16/2014 at 12:19 (3,634 days old) by imperial70 (MA USA)        
spray rinse

mrboilwash,
I never understood why they switched to the spray rinse after the deep rinse either.

But I agree about having a spray rinse. I notice that in my speedqueen the deep rinse water is always cleaner than it was in a machine that didn't have the spray rinse.


Post# 766936 , Reply# 40   6/30/2014 at 13:45 (3,559 days old) by denverdog ()        
Need advice on pre-wash

I see the 412 has combined soak and pre-wash. It fills, agitates, soaks and empties.

However, I see the 432 and 542 both have separated the soak from the pre-wash, with pre-wash showing up on the regular cycle.

My question is, on the 432 and 542 does the prewash empty before it washes, or does it fill, agitate, soak, and then move on to wash without emptying?

Can anyone explain the differences in prewash between the bottom of the line and the upper two models?

Current washers - 1990 Maytag Neptunes I love, 2014 LG waveforce i am kicking to the curb when I get my Speed Queen.

Thank you. I love this site.


Post# 766981 , Reply# 41   6/30/2014 at 15:53 (3,559 days old) by washman (o)        
Denver dog

On the AWN 542 the prewash fills, agitates (based on the fabric selector) then drains, then spins and stops. It does not go into the main wash cycle.

Hope this link helps.

www.clarkwholesale.net/wp-content...

This site is fun, however it can get quite "hot" as many on here are very passionate about what they believe.


Post# 766992 , Reply# 42   6/30/2014 at 16:19 (3,559 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Hope you include...

... yourself and you love to SQs into your last statement ;)

Post# 767000 , Reply# 43   6/30/2014 at 16:31 (3,559 days old) by washman (o)        
henene4 of course

Life without passion is like cake without icing.

:)

Since SQ does precious little advertising or marketing, figured I might as well carry the flag.


Post# 767046 , Reply# 44   6/30/2014 at 18:19 (3,559 days old) by JeffG ()        

I'm very glad SQ is primarily a commercial producer, and doesn't advertise much to residential customers. I think it's the main reason the company has been spared the horrors of coming up with endless marketing gimmicks for their products, in fact imo it's why we still have top loading washers available from SQ at all.

Now if we can only talk them out of this ridiculous Energy Star nonsense. Their latest bright idea is a partial drain between wash and rinse cycles. So much for any possibility of decent rinsing from their machines.

I still believe this will be self-correcting, either as lack of performance complaints mount or disease outbreaks start occurring. If you don't get to 140F, without chlorine or other bleach you don't kill the nasties. Period. End of biological story, regardless of what our government or any washer manufacturer might claim.


Post# 767207 , Reply# 45   7/1/2014 at 09:49 (3,558 days old) by denverdog ()        
I got this from the speed queen staff - a bit confusing

I don't understand the response I got from speed queen as it seems to conflict with what I see on the dial controls for the various models. Seems all models have a soak, but upper models have separated soak from prewash. Here she tells me that on the upper models the prewash spins out and then continues into the wash cycle. What do you think, is this correct?


Response from speed queen when asking about the separation of soak and prewash on models:

Thank you for your inquiry. The prewash before the regular cycle is a short part of the cycle (about 9 minutes) and it does agitate and spin. Then it goes right into the regular cycle. If you are concerned about putting more soap in the regular cycle (after it spins out from the prewash), you can put more detergent in the dispense for the fabric softener (in the agitator). This will release the detergent at the proper time after the prewash, and during the regular cycle. Probably the biggest difference in these models and the Prewash cycle, is that on the 412, it has time for Soak, but on the other 2 models, there is no Soak time.



Post# 767220 , Reply# 46   7/1/2014 at 10:54 (3,558 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Per the images of the controls on Speed Queen's web site, seems to me that the 542 and 432 Prewash is a lead-in to the Regular cycle ... functions similarly to Whirlpool's Super Wash. Brief agitation, drain/spin, continue into Regular.

The user guides available online describe the soak cycle as a brief agitation, 12 mins of soak, drain/spin and off.  Likely is the same on all models.

Difference between 542 and 432 having a separate automatic Prewash against 412 not having it is that 542 and 432 allow a prewash without the soak time. 412 has prewash as part/parcel of the soak.

A manual prewash can be done by starting any cycle at the Rinse indicator.


Post# 767227 , Reply# 47   7/1/2014 at 11:30 (3,558 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
I was hoping Carly would check in and let us know which model she selected. Are you out there, Carly?


Ben: I'd forgotten all about designating you Patronus Absolutus! Sometimes it is fun to have a look back at the older threads.


Post# 767239 , Reply# 48   7/1/2014 at 12:20 (3,558 days old) by washman (o)        
Poor Carly is probably overwhelmed

with all the information and opinions given on this thread.

Post# 767240 , Reply# 49   7/1/2014 at 12:27 (3,558 days old) by denverdog ()        
Thank you DADoES

You explaination is exactly how I think it works. It helps me decide what model to get.

Post# 767250 , Reply# 50   7/1/2014 at 14:00 (3,558 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
I'd like to see the option of a soak in the middle of the wash portion of the cycle---without using the extra 20+ gallons of water. I ran a load of stained kitchen whites through the AWN542 a couple of days ago and noticed better results when letting the wash cycle agitate for 4-5 minutes, then stopping it for 30 minutes. I restarted the machine and let it finish the cycle---great results without the added fabric wear of adding agitation time.

Would be very convenient if the washer did this automatically---and it wouldn't add energy or water use to the cycle. Win-Win!


Post# 767300 , Reply# 51   7/1/2014 at 17:57 (3,558 days old) by Chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
Imo, I think speed Queen could better the cycle timing for the soaks and prewash. The thing I like about mine is that after a 4 minute prewash it will automatically soak then drain the machine.

Just of note, the AWN 432 and AWN 542 have 3 minute timer increments instead of 2. If I remember right the pre wash has no soak period on the pre wash.


Post# 767301 , Reply# 52   7/1/2014 at 17:59 (3,558 days old) by Chetlaham (United States)        
AWN412 Motor speeds and timing

chetlaham's profile picture
If your curious here is the tech sheet to my AWN412:



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