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Thread Number: 52723
Cutlery Basket vs. Cutlery Drawer |
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| Post# 750234 4/15/2014 at 10:33 (3,655 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) | ||
My Mother recently got a new Bosch dishwasher due to a product recall because of a possible fire hazard. In Germany this particular recall gives you a choice of either a free repair or a 20% discount on any new DW from the BSH group. Since hers was a little over ten years old it seemed the discount was the better deal.
The new DW has a cutlery drawer which is very nice to load and unload, but her flatware looks terrible now. There is always a whitish film at the bottom of each piece where the water collects - runs off. I`ve tried to adjust the amount of rinse aid from 3 to 5 (factory setting) which is an insane amount in my opinion, but still no improvement. I wonder if it could be so bad because she only uses the Auto 45°-65° cycle and she is one of those women who couldn`t put a dirty dish into a dish washer ever. Everything gets pre rinsed to perfection before loading. So I thought maybe there are not enough water changings and the whitish film could be detergent residue ? Or is it a common problem with cutlery drawers ? I mean what is the point of the drawer if you have to polish your flatware ? Thank God my 12 years old DW (with cutlery basket) wasn`t part of the recall. Not sure if I would opt for one with a drawer if I had to buy a new one now. | ||
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Post# 750239 , Reply# 1 4/15/2014 at 10:47 (3,655 days old) by rp2813  (Sannazay) |
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 No problems like that with our Miele. We have fairly hard water here and I bumped down the amount of rinse aid dispensed to 1ml very soon after we installed the machine, yet I still get good results. I use the "Normal" cycle, which automatically heats the water to Miele's specifications, all the time. Since last August when the machine was installed, I've used the "Pots and Pans" cycle only once.
I'm not familiar with the Bosch machines, but our Miele has a third small wash arm at the top of the tub that's specific to the cutlery tray/rack. Perhaps that makes a difference? | ||
| Post# 750252 , Reply# 4 4/15/2014 at 12:09 (3,655 days old) by Mich (Hells Kitchen - New York) | ||
If the water usage has been messed with... Like they have been here in America, she probably needs to look for another detergent. Lower Water Usage machines, now need special detergents with "extra shine" and "rinse aid" bulit in. Powders & Liquids, and Gels, just don't work so hot in them. Like I said, I'm sure hers is really different, but, I think an "All in 1" or "Tablet/Monodose" Product, may work better for her.
It's my understanding that Finish Quantum, has polishing agents. Somat Tablets might also be a great choice. Try to look for a phosphated based detergent, as what she is experiencing is typically limescale, and phosphates do wonders on conditioning that. Also, try turning on the "sani-rinse" or "heated rinse" and the upping the rinse aid dispenser for better results.
If you notice any streaks, or crap, after upping the rinse aid, turn it down and find a good middling point. 3/4 is normally good for most water conditions. | ||
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Post# 750253 , Reply# 5 4/15/2014 at 12:10 (3,655 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Yes, running a soil-sensing cycle with a clean load is not a good idea, in my opinion. The auto cycle will then use as little as seven liters (or six, if the dishwasher has Water Management). Maybe she should use just a little bit of powder or even gel, if she just uses the dishwasher to rinse the dishes.
Alex | ||
| Post# 750285 , Reply# 6 4/15/2014 at 13:12 (3,655 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas) | ||
have to ask the obvious question | ||
| Post# 750329 , Reply# 7 4/15/2014 at 15:57 (3,655 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) | ||
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Thanks for your input guys, everyone`s is very much appreciated !
Have to explain that my mother is 74 years old and very stubborn. She has her own ways and oppinions when it comes to houshold chores, so it`s pointless to try to change her. The detergent she uses ATM is "Lidl W5 All in one Tabs". Very good stuff, loaded with phosphates, I use them myself. There is also salt and rinse aid in the machine, both on factory setting as she wanted it to have. Salt is on setting #4 and should be OK for our water conditions. Rinse aid is now on 5 ml. I told her I get perfect results with 1 ml, but she still wanted it on #5. There is no little spray arm on top, just a nozzle. My initial hunch was also that the machine uses too little water in the automatic cycle when washing almost clean dishes. The problem is that she already loves this cycle because it does not take forever. Will give my best to get her to switch to the standard 50° cycle maybe with speed perfect option and see if things improve. | ||
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Post# 750334 , Reply# 8 4/15/2014 at 16:15 (3,655 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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Which model does she actually own? Just curious... | ||
| Post# 750349 , Reply# 10 4/15/2014 at 17:19 (3,655 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) | ||
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I don`t know, have to check out which model next time I vistit my parents.
We bought it from Media Markt, it was on sale for €499.- minus the 20% rebate. Just a MOL undercounter model with stainless steel front (and tank), 42 dB, A++ rating. I also don`t think it`s a temperature problem, I think it`s a not enough water problem. Will consider everyone`s suggestions but as I said she has her own ways. She is a perfectionist in many ways but she also doesn`t seem to be as bothered by the cutlery as I am. This post was last edited 04/15/2014 at 17:35 | ||
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Post# 750359 , Reply# 11 4/15/2014 at 17:57 (3,655 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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I'd just change the rinse aid setting quietly. My grandma is 90 and she won't use the 1.400 rmp spin on her Miele washer because she says clothes come out too dry... only to put everything in the dryer once the wash is done. What's the logic behind that?
I use speedPerfect almost all the time - cycles take 65 to 90 minutes and the results are relly good. If she already likes the auto cycle, maybe try to convince her to add the speed option. It will still adapt somewhat to the soil conditions but use more water than without speedPerfect. Alex | ||
| Post# 750677 , Reply# 12 4/17/2014 at 13:00 (3,653 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) | ||
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| Post# 750701 , Reply# 15 4/17/2014 at 15:32 (3,653 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) | ||
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Will do my best to convince her to have the rinse aid reduced.
I totally agree the factory setting must be way too much. I have mine on the lowest setting as well and get great results along with All in 1 Tabs. On the other hand I find it very strange that there is no soapy rainbow colored film on her dishes at all with all that rinse aid. It`s only the white stuff on cutlery. Very interesting that you mention Lidl All in 1 in the UK is phosphate free. Does it at least look similar to what we get ? 
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| Post# 750702 , Reply# 16 4/17/2014 at 15:35 (3,653 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) | ||
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| Post# 760711 , Reply# 18 6/1/2014 at 08:33 (3,608 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) | ||
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Update
Turning the rinse aid down to setting #3 did not show any visible improvement.
But I had a chance to try out the standard Eco 50° cycle and wow, there was a huge difference. My Mother also kept the old cutlery basket from her former Bosch just in case she would not like the drawer. Last time I visited she proudly showed it to me installed although it does not fit well into the new bottom rack. She said she got sick of searching her reading glasses just to load some flatware. She still prefers the automatic cycle and I gave up to talk her out of prerinsing. She explained she wouldn`t tolerate the smell of rotten food in her kitchen and I respect her point of view. | ||
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Post# 760712 , Reply# 19 6/1/2014 at 08:45 (3,608 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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Nice! So, everyting ended well. She got clean cuttlery without changing her habbits. If she wants to, you could order her a matching cuttlery basket and unistall the drawer so she got a fitting basket and more space in the top rack. But if she is fine this way, thats ok. | ||
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Post# 760713 , Reply# 20 6/1/2014 at 08:45 (3,608 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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If your mother prerinses everything she'd better start using less detergent. Perhaps half a W5 tab is more than enough. A full tablet of detergent will eat the innards of the dishwasher in the end.
A friend of mine, who prerinses religiously, had a motor destructed by his prerinse regime. The motor of his Miele dishwasher died after ten years. The first thing the Miele repairman asked was if he prerinsed. He confirmed that. The Miele man replaced the motor and said to him he would be back if he continued prerinsing. I think the dishwasher lasted another nine years, but he doesn't use it frequently because he is single. My friend bought a new Miele dishwasher. I bet this one will not last longer than ten years. He is still prerinsing. And because the newer one uses less water, the detergent solution is stronger. Most likely he will have problems again. I never prerinse. My AEG 6060 lasted 18.5 years. The motor was still working, I got rid of it because I got a good deal for a new Miele. And the racks of the AEG started rusting. The AEG motor was just as silent as the day I bought it! | ||
| Post# 760781 , Reply# 21 6/1/2014 at 15:17 (3,608 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) | ||
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Henene I`m afraid a new cutlery basket alone would not fit any better, because the problem lies in the bottom rack`s additional spikes. But it seems to work for her and as you said everything ended well. She still uses the drawer for things like spatulas and so on.
Louis thanks for your input. Now that you mention it, I remember about your friend`s Miele. My Mother always got a lifespan of 10 to 15 years out of her dishwashers in the past, not too bad. Excessive etching has never been a problem anymore since those highly caustic chlorinated detergents were replaced by milder enzyme based ones about 20 years ago. But I agree, a little less detergent probably wouldn`t hurt either. Personally I only prerinse when I won`t start the DW the same day, but I don`t bother with prerinsing otherwise. And I stay clear of the automatic cycle unless the load is really dirty. I am so glad my 12 year old Bosch is still going strong so I don`t have to decide for a particular cutlery system. | ||
| Post# 760795 , Reply# 23 6/1/2014 at 16:52 (3,608 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) | ||
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The Eco cycle is my favorite because glasses look better with "Prerinse-Wash-Purge-Rinse-Purge-Final rinse" than with "Wash-Rinse-Final rinse" when the sensor detects a light soil level.
The final rinse temperature of Eco seems to keep the DW clean, but I still use the Auto occasionally (maybe once a month) to be on the safe side. | ||
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Post# 760805 , Reply# 24 6/1/2014 at 18:43 (3,608 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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I`m afraid a new cutlery basket alone would not fit any better, because the problem lies in the bottom rack`s additional spikes.
The current cutlery baskets are made to fit all BSH dishwashers. They can no longer be separated like the old ones, though - which is why I ordered one of the older ones off of eBay.
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| Post# 760845 , Reply# 25 6/2/2014 at 03:09 (3,608 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) | ||
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