Vintage General Electric stove (Kirkwood)

Tom:

I'm wondering why you mentioned trouble in connection with self-cleaning?

GE's P*7 system was a huge roll of the dice for the company, and they seem to have held one thing sacred all the way through the R & D process - it had to work. No ifs, ands or buts - it had to do the job.

It also had to be reliable as Hell. GE's product engineers knew that if there were reliability problems, housewives weren't going to give a tinker's damn about self-cleaning.

I believe I remember John combo52 saying once that the design process began in '55, eight long years before introduction. GE began phasing in certain aspects of the P*7 system even before it was available - the Starlight Gray oven interior was created to show off the new system when it became available. What good would a self-cleaning oven be if all you had to show for it after a cleaning cycle was the old, dirt-hiding dark blue or black interior with white speckles?

When P*7 debuted for the '63 model year, GE hit a home run. The system worked so well one high-profile user (Mrs. Richard Rodgers, wife of Sound of Music composer Richard Rodgers) described the results as "sensational." Consumer Reports even found that the extra cost of P*7 would be returned to the consumer over the life of the range, due to decreased operating costs while baking and roasting, due to the increased insulation. P*7 was very popular, very fast. I was aware of the system as an 11-year-old boy. One of the things I heard was that baking performance was actually enhanced on P*7 units - all that insulation kept temps even steadier.

I am sure there were problems with some units, and I am sure not everyone was as thrilled as Dorothy Rodgers. But this country went from no self-cleaning to every major manufacturer offering some version in something like four or five years. You don't get that with a hinky product.

If you know something I don't, please share it with us.


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Post# 769670 7/10/2014 at 07:26 (3,570 days old) by ovrphil (N.Atlanta / Georgia )
Checkrate/Likes CLICK HERE TO GO TO ovrphil's LINK on Binghamton Craigslist Photos... < > Photo 1 of 5 View Full Size

Post# 769679 , Reply# 1 7/10/2014 at 08:09 (3,570 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )
Checkrate/Likes *MMMM MM* My FAVORITE GE..Also one you NEVER SEE!!LOL

Post# 769997 , Reply# 2 7/11/2014 at 14:22 (3,569 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)
Checkrate/Likes A very nice range and no self cleaning oven to give trouble. This was TOL before self cleaning, Model J408 2 Oven Keyboard Range as it's called on the spec sheet. The Sensi-Temp unit was 3200 watts back then. Shipping weight was 294 pounds.

Post# 770056 , Reply# 3 7/11/2014 at 18:31 (3,569 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )
Checkrate/Likes *I dont know why...* BUT i like this better than any other GE!!!

Post# 770075 , Reply# 4 7/11/2014 at 20:08 (3,568 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)
Checkrate/Likes *Self-Cleaning - Trouble?* Tom: I'm wondering why you mentioned trouble in connection with self-cleaning? GE's P7 system was a huge roll of the dice for the company, and they seem to have held one thing sacred all the way through the R & D process - it had to work. No ifs, ands or buts - it had to do the job. It also had to be reliable as Hell. GE's product engineers knew that if there were reliability problems, housewives weren't going to give a tinker's damn about self-cleaning. I believe I remember John combo52 saying once that the design process began in '55, eight long years before introduction. GE began phasing in certain aspects of the P7 system even before it was available - the Starlight Gray oven interior was created to show off the new system when it became available. What good would a self-cleaning oven be if all you had to show for it after a cleaning cycle was the old, dirt-hiding dark blue or black interior with white speckles? When P7 debuted for the '63 model year, GE hit a home run. The system worked so well one high-profile user (Mrs. Richard Rodgers, wife of Sound of Music* composer Richard Rodgers) described the results as "sensational." Consumer Reports even found that the extra cost of P7 would be returned to the consumer over the life of the range, due to decreased operating costs while baking and roasting, due to the increased insulation. P7 was very popular, very fast. I was aware of the system as an 11-year-old boy. One of the things I heard was that baking performance was actually enhanced on P*7 units - all that insulation kept temps even steadier. I am sure there were problems with some units, and I am sure not everyone was as thrilled as Dorothy Rodgers. But this country went from no self-cleaning to every major manufacturer offering some version in something like four or five years. You don't get that with a hinky product. If you know something I don't, please share it with us.

Post# 770081 , Reply# 5 7/11/2014 at 20:47 (3,568 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )
Checkrate/Likes *Re Self Cleaning..* I would like to try one, but it does seem all the added components would be troublesome as they aged, like the Sensi Temp, and speed heat was.The added insulation sure would be nice, But the above stove to me, is a beautiful thing.

Post# 770108 , Reply# 6 7/11/2014 at 22:07 (3,568 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)
Checkrate/Likes 1 The first J390001 we restored for my use took numerous parts to get the oven to work properly. The little board had to be replaced along with, I believe, the sodium-filled sensor. They have more parts than a plain oven although, if it holds a steady temperature and you don't care if the self-cleaning process still works, they are more heavily insulated. I don't roast meats so my ovens don't accumulate the type of soil that makes the feature necessary for some people. I was just saying, that for a second hand range of this age, and it is 50 years old, this would be inherently less troublesome for the average owner and the oven liner would not exhibit the degradation and eventual rusting seen in self-cleaners that have been cleaned fairly frequently and many early owners of self-cleaning oven cleaned the hell out of them. A family friend had a range very similar to this with the self-cleaning oven and while the rest of the range still looked great, the oven liner was sort of light cinnamon in color.

Post# 770199 , Reply# 7 7/12/2014 at 11:13 (3,568 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *My two cents* This is a very nice TOL 1963 stove. I thought the P*7 system worked well, but I agree that the best benefit of these models was the extra insulation in the ovens. On the down side, until GE realized what was happening with most customers, they ruined the chrome finish and smooth movement of the oven racks and there was always a significant decrease in oven capacity. I don't think any oven I've ever used was as good at the JK27's of 1962 that were in our first kitchen. Those ovens were fast, had all the bells and whistles and never needed 1 repair. Having worked in professional kitchens where we had to clean the ovens by hand with lye, I don't consider that such a big deal. I suppose if I had a big family where I was roasting meat 2 or 3 times a week, self-cleaning ovens would be very good to have. For me, the best combination of features is one I rarely see even today, selective convection ovens with built-in rotisseries.

Post# 770210 , Reply# 8 7/12/2014 at 11:36 (3,568 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)
Checkrate/Likes The first P7 ovens had silver tabs on the rack glides so that the self-cleaning process would not impede the racks' sliding. The main complication with self-cleaning ovens is that there are parts that are NLA. Appliance manufacturers are not interested in supporting 50 year old technology. If an old self-cleaner works, you are lucky and if it does not, in some cases, you are not. Probably the most trouble-prone part of this range is the Sensi-Temp, but the range is sturdy, well made and well designed with proven components.