Thread Number: 55180
SQ and others in washer repair survey
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Post# 775741   8/6/2014 at 00:51 (3,542 days old) by washman (o)        

This post has been removed by the webmaster.






Post# 775766 , Reply# 1   8/6/2014 at 07:07 (3,542 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Latest CRs Washer Frequency Of Repair Data

combo52's profile picture
Great showing for SQ TL washers, however it is a little scary when you consider that the new electronically belt drive MTs and WPs are so close in the ratings, maybe this new plastic appliances are not as bad as many assume, LOL.

The other interesting thing about CRs report is they continue to try to report the findings on Sears Kenmore appliances, KMs rating is useless as it is an average of WP built and LG-Samsung washers. I have written CRs several times and asked them to stop doing this, it is the same with DWs, ranges, dryers, refrigerators, because Sears has over 1/2 dozen companies building KM branded major appliances these ratings are useless, ever wounder how KM always seems to come out in the middle of the ratings when the companies building their appliances are usually either better or worse than KMs rating, LOL.

CRs needs to get its act together on this glaring mistake.

John L.


Post# 775768 , Reply# 2   8/6/2014 at 07:17 (3,542 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Sorry Ben, that CR post is not allowed because it is copyrighted.

Post# 775771 , Reply# 3   8/6/2014 at 07:44 (3,542 days old) by washman (o)        
oops my bad

didn't think about that one. Good catch webmaster.

Post# 775778 , Reply# 4   8/6/2014 at 08:06 (3,542 days old) by coldspot66 (Plymouth, Mass)        

To John Combo52:

I fully agree with you about Kenmore. I don't even pay attention to repair data for Kenmore, because I know it is a combination of just about all the brands. They really should ask for model #'s for Kenmore appliances when they send out their data survey. Also list Kenmore several times for each brand. That would give a more accurate picture of the data. I don't even like most Kenmore appliances anymore, unless I know they are rebadged Whirlpools. Prejudiced, I know!!!!


Post# 775784 , Reply# 5   8/6/2014 at 08:35 (3,542 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture

CR used to list brands like Norge and M Wards as being "similar to" but that practice ended long ago with many other things they "used" to do.

 

At least for reliability ratings, the grouping of "Kenmore" consisting of WP, LG, etc. brands could cause potential harm to the brand's overall rating with just a few duds in the line.  Regardless of the particulars of who made what appliance in the brand line-up we can spot a mile away, I'm convinced the general buying public couldn't care less who made the product.  How shiny is it?  How much is it?  How much is the monthly payment?


Post# 775804 , Reply# 6   8/6/2014 at 11:26 (3,542 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)        

wayupnorth's profile picture
Robert is absolutely right in taking anything that is copyrighted by CR out. They are known to immediately slap a cease and desist order on the poster. You can get around this by simply putting "a leading consumer magazine".

Post# 775938 , Reply# 7   8/7/2014 at 00:36 (3,541 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

I wouldn't think the WP/Maytag newer design BD's haven't been out and in use long enough to get relaibility data on them.Think CU may have to wait a few more years.

Post# 775989 , Reply# 8   8/7/2014 at 09:43 (3,541 days old) by thefixer ()        

They have been out for four years and there have been LOTS of problems with them. Way too many going to the landfills because people don't want to spend the money to get them fixed.

Post# 775990 , Reply# 9   8/7/2014 at 09:50 (3,541 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Longer than you think.  The VMW belt-drive revision was introduced toward the end of 2010 so it's coming up on 4 years.  Unless the policy has been changed from last I know, CR doesn't take reliability data via their annual survey on products older than 5 years.


Post# 776003 , Reply# 10   8/7/2014 at 10:57 (3,541 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
CRs Reliability Surrey

combo52's profile picture
Only goes back 5 years so it is likely that the majority of the TL washers that made up this 9% failure rating are the NEW VMW models, it would also include the machines with the DD F&P motors and I am sure that some DD washers are mixed in, so this rating is only an average of three different WP built washers.



But is still shows that the new VMW washers can't be all that bad. We have had few problems with them overall and we have gotten only three back from customers that replaced them and all three were easily fixed and have been resold and are back in the field washing clothing today.



I look every week at the scrap appliances that come into two appliance retailers and see well over 100 discards every week and have seen only about three of the VMWs getting scraped [ note appliances do not fill up landfills anymore nearly 100% of old appliances get crushed and recycled today ] So it is not like a high percentage of these washers are getting junked.


Post# 776033 , Reply# 11   8/7/2014 at 13:32 (3,541 days old) by repair-man (Pittsburgh PA)        
I had high hopes when the VMW washers first came out...

But I have also seen many many failures for a product that is at most 4 years old. I agree that some of the problems are a simple fix. Small clothing gets stuck between the Baskerville and outer tub, shift actuators, capacitors, plastic drive pulley that wears until the belt cuts through the cage and eventually falls off, main boards that cost half the price of the whole machine are all very common problems that I see. And now I am seeing some of the early units with centerpost seal failures that ruin the upper ball bearing in the transmission. I have never run into a bad motor or pump.


Post# 776035 , Reply# 12   8/7/2014 at 13:35 (3,541 days old) by repair-man (Pittsburgh PA)        

Should read "between the basket and outer tub". Not sure what Baskerville is or where it came from.

Post# 776197 , Reply# 13   8/8/2014 at 03:47 (3,540 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

"Hounds of the Baskervilles?"OK didn't realize those newer generation WP-MayWhirl machines had been out that long-so-lots on their casulty lists!So--its a good machine to AVOID!!!Again,will do my future washer shopping at the swap shop or the SQ dealer.(Kinston,NC)

Post# 776201 , Reply# 14   8/8/2014 at 04:34 (3,540 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        

VMW? please.


Post# 776231 , Reply# 15   8/8/2014 at 09:06 (3,540 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
VMW = Vertical Modular Washer ... Whirlpool's designation for the new belt-drive mechanism.


Post# 776236 , Reply# 16   8/8/2014 at 09:37 (3,540 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture

 Why doesn't CR do its own testing? Our "leading consumer magazine" runs three washers of each tested model through over 1800 cycles to evaluate durability. 


Post# 776277 , Reply# 17   8/8/2014 at 13:24 (3,540 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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CR tested 150 washers during the past 12 months. Running three machines of each model for 1,800 cycles is not economically feasible.

Post# 776291 , Reply# 18   8/8/2014 at 14:41 (3,540 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture

Does CR disclose what kind of failures were documented in their survey? Or does calling for service because the appliance was not plugged in or the water turned off also count as a service call?


Post# 776293 , Reply# 19   8/8/2014 at 14:52 (3,540 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Or does calling for service because the appliance was not plugged in or the water turned off also count as a service call?
They do not differentiate what was the cause for service unless that has changed since last I know.  The annual surveys I've seen ask 1) whether the appliance has had a problem that required service and 2) whether there has been a problem that the consumer opted to not have repaired.


Post# 776310 , Reply# 20   8/8/2014 at 16:19 (3,540 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture

Thanks. Am not impressed then.

 

Also, why the need to test 150 models? Are there really 150 different washing machine platforms out there? From what I know, most manufacturers use as few platforms as possible and then add features as the price goes up - but it's still the same washing machine, just with more buttons (for the most part).


Post# 776416 , Reply# 21   8/9/2014 at 08:29 (3,539 days old) by imperial70 (MA USA)        

Sometimes, reliability is up to the end-user. Washing techniques have changed with he machines. You have to follow the instructions properly. Perhaps they are less forgiving than say a SQ TL. I don't believe anything I read from CR.




Post# 776429 , Reply# 22   8/9/2014 at 09:55 (3,539 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

I used to rely on CR but these last few years - I don't know.  I don't think they test like they used to, at least they don't report like they use to.

 

I wish they would do real world testing.  I guess that is hard, but I would like that better than washing soiled swatches of fabric.  I would also like them to wash real world loads when testing DW. Instead they seem to smear soil over plates..get everything hard and crusty, then wash the load using a cycle that is not designed to clean that type of soil...and then they compare.  This is something most would not do.

 

Why do CR reports only go back 5 years?  I noticed this a while ago when I tried to fill out the questionnaire.  My washer is 11 years old, DW 8 ..there is no place to include these in their survey.  

 

MT and WP.  These appliances are made by the same company so why wouldn't their ratings be close?  I mean it is the same thing underneath - everything coming from the same design department, with a different coating on the outside, so I would expect the same type of mechanical and electronic problems to surface on all of these models.

 


Post# 776447 , Reply# 23   8/9/2014 at 14:33 (3,539 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture

I'd argue CR's testing methodology has improved in the past twenty years. Unfortunately, the in-depth reporting of said tests is all but gone, which is hugely disappointing. You get a couple of dumbed-down paragraphs and a chart.

Real-world testing: It would be difficult to standardize test results if their loads were randomly soiled, both with washers and dishwashers. Having said that, I'd love to see their test of how well cookware is cleaned go beyond baked on brownie batter. Starch rings from cooking pasta/rice and the fond created by sautéing at high temps would be a nice addition.

Reliability reporting: I think they only go back five years in order to err on the side of skewing to newer models rather than letting an unreliable newer model ride the coattails of more reliable machines from 15 years ago. The opposite is also true: Ten years ago, LG washers were not very reliable. They've improved quite a bit, so it's good their new machines aren't dragged down by the problems of older models.

 

What I'd like to see:  Get rid of the red/clear/black circles that say "Excellent", "Very Good", etc.  Give us the actual number for each component of the test.  A washer may rate a Very Good for cleaning performance, but there's a 20-point range within that rating.  My decision to purchase a particular model may hinge on whether a machine is only a point or two away from "Excellent" or a point or two away from "Good."  They think we're not able to deal with numbers, I guess.


Post# 776450 , Reply# 24   8/9/2014 at 14:49 (3,539 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture

While probably none of you can understand it, here's a test from our consumer magazine. It's from 2010 and therefore can be downloaded for free.

 

Have a look.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO logixx's LINK

Post# 776522 , Reply# 25   8/10/2014 at 05:13 (3,538 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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That test is not available for non-members.

Post# 776524 , Reply# 26   8/10/2014 at 06:27 (3,538 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture

Really? It's free to download for anyone - there's no membership required anytime (but one has to buy the more recent tests). Maybe the link won't work outside of Germany; that happens to me a lot with links from sears.com.

 

Edit: you're right... the link timed-out or something. Stupid internet.


Post# 776527 , Reply# 27   8/10/2014 at 06:50 (3,538 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture

One more try. Again, this is a free document (no membership, payment or anything required) because it's an old test from 04/2010.

 

(c) Stiftung Warentest


  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 6         View Full Size
Post# 776534 , Reply# 28   8/10/2014 at 08:05 (3,538 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Thanks for sharing that test!

Post# 776536 , Reply# 29   8/10/2014 at 08:36 (3,538 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture

Louis, since you understand German, there are plenty more for free download on their website.


Post# 776543 , Reply# 30   8/10/2014 at 09:55 (3,538 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Yes, thank you. A while ago I read a few historic tests, which was quite awesome because I actually remember some of those machines. :-)


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