|
Thread Number: 55805
Consumer Reports: Samsung Waterwall Dishwasher Flunks Test |
[Down to Last] |  |
Post# 781961 9/6/2014 at 17:50 (3,512 days old) by Frigilux  (The Minnesota Prairie) |
||
This video link to CR online is located in the all-access area of their site. Wait 'til you see the filter!
CLICK HERE TO GO TO Frigilux's LINK 
| ||
|
|
Post# 782002 , Reply# 2 9/6/2014 at 20:32 (3,511 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
 | ||
|
Post# 782010 , Reply# 3 9/6/2014 at 21:10 (3,511 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
||
 | ||
| Post# 782014 , Reply# 4 9/6/2014 at 21:17 (3,511 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
Perhaps... | ||
| Post# 782046 , Reply# 6 9/7/2014 at 00:16 (3,511 days old) by Murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US) | ||
And order is restored... 
For once, Consumer Reports came through with something useful. These companies get too big for their britches and try to reinvent the wheel instead of focusing on what actually needs improvement. I'm ready to see this crash and burn and be forgotten. It's just a pity for the sheeple that dish out that much money to have filthy dishes as their payoff, but then again maybe they should learn not to buy something just because it's shiny.
“this only seems to appear under Consumer Reports’ testing conditions and not in real world, everyday use.” Not sure what focus group they're interviewing to get this info, but where I come from dishwashers are meant to wash DIRTY dishes and keep itself clean in the process. The spray coming from that bar looks to be no better than the hand sprayer on my kitchen sink. | ||
| Post# 782048 , Reply# 7 9/7/2014 at 01:55 (3,511 days old) by Askomiele (Belgium Ghent) | ||
|
They didn't even redesigned the filter unit. Guess with some other filter unit and a jet cleaning it (like any other dishwasher), the idea would ben interesting. | ||
|
Post# 782091 , Reply# 8 9/7/2014 at 08:40 (3,511 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
||
|
I'm not going to count out the Waterwall quite yet. This is a filtering issue, not necessarily one of wash system performance. I'd love to know how the machine performed once the filter was cleaned. Maybe it did a great job in cleaning performance. A fix for the filtering problem can't be terribly difficult. The narrator in the CR video said it was the only machine of over 150 tested to exhibit the problem. The debris obviously needs a little more convincing to get it into the sump.
Being far from a diligent dish scraper, the big filter on the floor of the 10-month old GE in my kitchen has never required cleaning. The ultra-fine cylindrical filter gets a barely-needed spray-off about once every two weeks.
I'm with Malcolm on this one: I'm glad manufacturers try different/unique wash systems!
Appliances have lost so much differentiation since the mid-1970s when White Consolidated Industries bought--and neutered--interesting/unique systems from Westinghouse, Kelvinator and Frigidaire. Similarly, Maytags and KitchenAids are Whirlpool clones for all intents and purposes. Soon GE will morph into rebadged Electrolux/Frigidaires.
Perhaps this kick-in-the-ass from CR will encourage Samsung to solve the problem quickly.
On the other hand...if the Waterwall wash system doesn't clean well and the format is quickly abandoned, future collectors will be overjoyed at finding a rarity! This post was last edited 09/07/2014 at 09:25 | ||
|
Post# 782096 , Reply# 9 9/7/2014 at 09:33 (3,511 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
||
|
Well, reviewed.com liked the WaterWall a lot. However, watching their "How we Test" video, it looks like they hardly load the dishwashers up.
Samsung review: dishwashers.reviewed.com/content/... (look, how they loaded the bottom rack - oy!)
How We Test:
| ||
| Post# 782097 , Reply# 10 9/7/2014 at 09:42 (3,511 days old) by stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK) | ||
Hmm...
Samsung said in a statement, “this only seems to appear under Consumer Reports’ testing conditions and not in real world, everyday use.”
The problem with CR is their 'simulated use' approach. Would it be so hard to place the unit in a home or two and follow the experience of the user over an extended time frame? Most appliances don't change consequentially from year to year. The mfg's have learned to game their simulations with flimsy crap that sometimes doesn't last a year. It was my own investigation which found you cannot buy a common replacement wear part (brush roll) for the extremely popular Shark vacuum. Rather the complete bottom have of the vacuum must be replaced a a prohibitively high cost. The "Water Wall" appeals to me because i like as fast a load as possible (within reason) because i hand wash all baked on or difficult material. So on the Bosch 500 series i use the 30 minute setting and am a happy camper. That said CR's rating did influence my choice to go with a Samsung Refrigerator. However The GE Cafe Series was by far the most impressive with cost not a factor. I noticed the Refrigerators.reviewed.com liked it too, see link. CLICK HERE TO GO TO stricklybojack's LINK | ||
| Post# 782139 , Reply# 12 9/7/2014 at 12:55 (3,511 days old) by frontloaderfan (Merrimac valley, MA) | ||
 | ||
|
Post# 782143 , Reply# 13 9/7/2014 at 13:18 (3,511 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York) |
||
 | ||
| Post# 782191 , Reply# 16 9/7/2014 at 19:10 (3,511 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
|
Wash cycle | ||
| Post# 782195 , Reply# 17 9/7/2014 at 19:45 (3,511 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US) | ||
|
I think the statement about the other 150 machines isn't referring to 150 other Samsung WaterWalls. Pretty sure it means the other makes/models as a whole. They used 2 of these Samsungs from what the article states. One that failed, and another to be sure that it was a design fail rather than a lemon machine.
| ||
|
Post# 782227 , Reply# 19 9/7/2014 at 22:30 (3,510 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
||
Is It Really Surprising That This DW Does Not Work Well ?
The Koreans, Japanese, Chinese and several other Asian countries are not know for great innovations, Yes they have built some great products, but most of what they built was a copy of things that were conceived elsewhere.
This CRs report comes out at a great time, just last week I was at our appliance wholesaler and the owner was out in the warehouse talking to this cute young salesman who was the Samsung rep. He asked me if I had seen the new Water-Wall DW and what I thought of it, I told him that I had not had any direct experience with it , but was very skeptical as Samsung DWs had a terrible reputation out in the field for reliability and being difficult to impossible to repair. He was very surprised and I suggested we take a walk over to the scrap side of the WH and see the 3 SS DWs that I had just seen on the scrap pile a few minutes earlier. He was very surprised that 3 out of about 12 total DWs on the scrap pile were SSs, none older than about 5 years. Hopefully I will run into him again, LOL. | ||
| Post# 782229 , Reply# 20 9/7/2014 at 22:40 (3,510 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US) | ||
|
Right now, our society is in this "make it different just because it's been the same for a long time" trend, failing to educate themselves and see that sometimes, things are as good as they'll be just as they are, unless humans somehow discover a way to change the physics of the natural world. This "water wall" concept has been tried before, as have spray tubes and mechanical gyrating contraptions and the like, and the simple yet perfect rotating spray arm always stays.
You see this trend in a lot of things lately, from computer electronics to cars to appliances. People are being brought up with the misconception that if the advertising and brochures and manuals say a product will do "this, this and this", then by god that's exactly what it does and there's no need to question it. Gone are the days when cars and appliances are considered investments; instead they're just disposable tools to be replaced at the first sign of malfunction. Newer generations are no longer encouraged to learn about the machines they use every day, only to look for the shiniest, most expensive thing they can find, the more gimmicks the better. I feel that some companies feed on this kind of ignorance. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if one day soon, you'll be expected to put your clothes into a gorgeous, shiny machine with lots of buttons and "gadgets", and behind the closed door all that will happen is some tumbling to give the illusion of operating sounds, and the clothes will get spritzed with glorified Febreze. Those who have this "I don't care how it's done as long as they seem clean" mindset won't know the difference, which sadly is a large percentage of our society today. | ||
| Post# 782250 , Reply# 21 9/8/2014 at 00:13 (3,510 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
"…not in real world, everyday use."
I looked at what CR was testing with, and I'd kill that thing in a heartbeat. I don't put whole cakes in the dishwasher, but I pre-rinse nothing and only scrape if it's something--like piles of potatoes or rice--that would clearly wreak havoc in the GE. The dishes that CR showed in the racks looked tame by comparison.
I put the whisk from our KitchenAid, festooned with potato skins wrapped all around every part of it, in the bottom rack, and after one Heavy Wash cycle, the GE had expelled all but a few very clean skins from the machine and right down the drain. The whisk itself gleamed, and had nary a yiblet on it--nor was any of that up in the top rack in or on the glasses. I probably would have caused the Samsung to catch on fire. I think this is a classic case of inadequate water and the consequence of the new wash system. If they took a page out of Whirlpool's or Frigidaire's playbook and put in a nozzle to help shoo stuff into the sump, it might help. Most wash arm machines these days with this type of sump configuration still seem to have filter-cleaning jets somewhere. I agree with Malcolm--maybe it's loosening too much crap too fast, and there's not enough water flow to sheet everything down into the sump. I think they'll need some wash system redesigns rather than a software patch to allow the machine to soldier on. I do think this is a very novel system, and agree that I miss the panoply of designs that used to exist before everything became totally homogeneous. Oh, and sorry for cursing that GE/WCI thing in my other post. ;-) | ||
| Post# 782284 , Reply# 22 9/8/2014 at 07:43 (3,510 days old) by iej (.... ) | ||
|
I was in Currys, major appliance retailer here and I opened a fairly fancy looking Samsung dishwasher and the edges of the door area were so sharp they actually felt like they'd almost cut me and it was *MORE* expensive than the Miele next to it. | ||
| Post# 782319 , Reply# 25 9/8/2014 at 11:31 (3,510 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
|
Consumer Reports | ||
|
Post# 782346 , Reply# 26 9/8/2014 at 12:54 (3,510 days old) by joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA) |
||
It sounds like the problem was that the dishwasher was programmed to display an error. I would expect a programming change to the cycle could correct the problem. It could start the cycle with less pressure, and once it notices that the water is getting too dirty, immediately change the water before it gets worse. That is basically what my Bosch does.
It starts with a partial fill, and sprays at a reduced strength. If it is really dirty, it will drain and fill again. It is isn't too dirty, after about 5 minutes it will fill the rest of the way and begin the prerinse. Depending on how dirty the water is, it may drain again before the main wash, or simply open the detergent cup and start heating the water for the main wash. | ||
|
Post# 782362 , Reply# 27 9/8/2014 at 13:46 (3,510 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
||
 | ||
| Post# 782378 , Reply# 28 9/8/2014 at 14:49 (3,510 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania) | ||
|
A prewash before the wash might help but Wasn't this problem in the prewash and not the main wash? I don't know what the answer is but I don't want this machine. | ||
|
Post# 782884 , Reply# 30 9/10/2014 at 19:15 (3,508 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI) |
||
Sam Hung's Innovation Pipe Dream: | ||
| Post# 782907 , Reply# 31 9/10/2014 at 21:18 (3,507 days old) by washman (o) | ||
|
I believe that consumers would settle for a machine that works. Is that too much to ask? | ||
| Post# 782954 , Reply# 34 9/11/2014 at 03:23 (3,507 days old) by richnz (New Zealand) | ||
|
Why the cryptic error message? Why doesn't the machine just say "CLEAN FILTER"? | ||
| Post# 782956 , Reply# 35 9/11/2014 at 03:57 (3,507 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
|
Error codes | ||
|
Post# 782965 , Reply# 37 9/11/2014 at 07:11 (3,507 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
||
|
@tolivac I guess, if the filter is that clogged, this would mean the wash water wouldn't be dirty after all as all the dirt is caught in that filter. So, I guess, the filter design had to be that effective so the high pressure WaterWall® nozzels would not clogg up. | ||
|
Post# 782974 , Reply# 38 9/11/2014 at 08:45 (3,507 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI) |
||
|
What's really needed is a counter-action to dispose all the dirt on the dishes as it's washed off...
There needs to be a water flow at the bottom of the tub and an active diposal system, that way there will be no gunk left at the bottom, and it hopefully won't spray back on the dishes... If something like this can be engineered into this dishwasher, though, it would have to be cost-effective and hopefully, w/ the potential complexity, work! -- Dave | ||
| Post# 783062 , Reply# 39 9/11/2014 at 16:32 (3,507 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
|
"Clean filter"
I suspect that part of the problem with making a display actually tell you what's going on is that they'd have to repackage it for each localized language application. It's easier for them to have the machine beep and say "F7", then publish a manual in your language that describes the issue, than it is to design the machine to do the thinking. Of course, a decent LCD panel would allow for this, but since they've designed this machine to give LED readouts through a laser-etched display in the metal, there you go. Function took a distant back seat to form, and all that.
| ||
| Post# 783065 , Reply# 40 9/11/2014 at 16:45 (3,507 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US) | ||
|
| ||
|
Post# 783068 , Reply# 41 9/11/2014 at 17:21 (3,507 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
||
 | ||
| Post# 783076 , Reply# 42 9/11/2014 at 18:17 (3,507 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
|
Extreme conditions | ||
|
Post# 783090 , Reply# 45 9/11/2014 at 19:26 (3,507 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
||
|
Innovations From Asian Countries
Hi James and thanks for responding to my post, BUT almost all of the things you mentioned were NOT invented by the Asian countries you listed, YES Japan and others made many of these things work and did a beautiful job of building them and made them reliable, but that is not the same as inventing them.
Try listing things they actually invented, not just perfected, that was my point. Thanks John L. | ||
| Forum Index: |
| Other Forums: |
|
|
|
|
|
Comes to the Rescue!
