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Thread Number: 56270
Reviews In For Whirlpool Powerwave Series |
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| Post# 786057 9/28/2014 at 10:07 (3,491 days old) by washerdude (Canada ) | ||
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So far people are not liking them.... CLICK HERE TO GO TO washerdude's LINK | ||
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Post# 786101 , Reply# 2 9/28/2014 at 16:32 (3,491 days old) by appnut  (TX) |
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 "Top controls are awkward to use and you cannot see control lights under counter top" lip
That's exactly why I won't have concealed controls on dishwashers. It's stupid, particularly if you are curious about status and function of your dishwasher. If you are so clueless and don't give a you know what once it's on, then have at it. No thanks!!!
And TOL features are only relegated to the concealed control panel models at the top end.
And what I think is really stupid is, why put a countdown display on a concealed control dishwasher--you cannot see the digits once the door is closed. This post was last edited 09/28/2014 at 16:51 | ||
| Post# 786255 , Reply# 4 9/29/2014 at 14:30 (3,490 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii) | ||
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| Post# 786266 , Reply# 5 9/29/2014 at 15:09 (3,490 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
Yes, but we are talking about the new models...
I have looked at the WP line over and over... They all have the same cycles, the same options... The only difference is the outer panel and whether it is plastic or stainless steel tank... And a very wide price range... And a filter... So if you use the dishwasher as a dishwasher (and not a rinser), your rinse water is filtered through the food washed off during the wash... Nice... Clean and sanitary, right? Funny the Maytags have the disposal still and no filter... | ||
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Post# 786269 , Reply# 6 9/29/2014 at 15:16 (3,490 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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Not to bring this conversation up again... But where do you think all the food waste goes in a DW without filter? I mean, it can't magicly disapear... | ||
| Post# 786271 , Reply# 7 9/29/2014 at 15:26 (3,490 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US) | ||
My mother-in-law's fiancee just had one of these installed in the house he just had built. It's identical to this minus the "Silverware shower". So far, he's ready to trash it.
Funny thing is, he and Angie (mother-in-law) asked me what I would recommend as far as appliances. I told him at a fair price, Whirlpool or Maytag would be his best bet. When I specified what dishwasher to look for, I told them an older Whirlpool, or a new Maytag, and specifically told them that if there is a removable filter at the bottom, AVOID AT ALL COSTS. What is sitting in that brand new kitchen when we come over? All stainless steel Whirlpools, and that terrible dishwasher right in the middle. As flighty as they are, I'm sure they just said they wanted Whirlpools in stainless, so the contractors did just that and brought in the lowest-end you can get that came in SS. I've been over twice at their request to make sure everything is in order with the machine, and it runs exactly as "intended", and yet the poor mouse-sized pump can't blast grit off the plates and silverware. The sad thing is that this machine is by no means BOL, and actually is near the top end without having a SS interior. I will say, however, the thing is silent. Granted, when you quickly open the door, there is water dripping from everything, and the wash arm is coasting down to a stop, but nothing so much as bounces out the door like it would if I opened my Maytag or the Whirlpool PC. So far the only method to use to get anything clean is to rinse everything off, leave an empty space between plates and bowls - a total waste of real estate - and make sure no piece of silverware is directly next to another despite having the slots in the basket. This method is paired with using Heavy Wash with Hi Temp, and Cascade Platinum. If so much as a piece of oatmeal or a stray noodle is on a plate when loaded, that whole order of operations falls through the roof. | ||
| Post# 786366 , Reply# 9 9/29/2014 at 21:28 (3,489 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US) | ||
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Dishwashers with soft food disposals still have filters, but they automatically clean themselves out. After passing through the grinder, the pulverized soil is slung to the outside of the impeller chamber and up through a channel into an accumulator filter. The water can escape and be recirculated again, but the soil stays trapped, while the spray holes on the underside of the arm sweep over the screen to keep the soil from sticking. When the drain portion begins, the pressure pulls the check ball/valve open so that the soil can be sucked straight out the drain, while the wash arm sprays down on the screen to further flush everything away. So, in response to your comment, yes, it DOES magically disappear.
I don't believe for one second that a manual-filter style machine can outperform one with a disposal. For one thing, self-cleaning machines stay incredibly clean, compared to the gunk I've seen caked in and around a manual filter. I suspect this is because the soil is pulverized to such a size that it takes no effort at all to be flushed out by the drain pump, as well as having a rushing volume of water passing through the parts so that nothing has a chance to settle and stick. On manual machines, only the debris that was lucky to not become lodged in the mesh screening can be pulled out, and if its a noodle or a pea, it's still too big to go through the small gap under the filter assembly for the soil to be "flushed away". | ||
| Post# 786367 , Reply# 10 9/29/2014 at 21:32 (3,489 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US) | ||
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The WP Point Voyager schematics show a beautiful diagram of what happens during the journey of water and soil in the machine. Skip to page 9 and beyond.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO murando531's LINK | ||
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Post# 786398 , Reply# 11 9/29/2014 at 23:48 (3,489 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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So The machines still have filters which catch food particles. And by conclusion that means they pass their water through the food soil as well. | ||
| Post# 786426 , Reply# 14 9/30/2014 at 03:49 (3,489 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas) | ||
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And when I took our Maytag apart to get the toothpick and wire wraps out I noted that there was not one bit of any food debris down in there or anywhere else in the machine. There were no odors, either. And like I said, we don't prerinse. | ||
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Post# 786459 , Reply# 15 9/30/2014 at 09:00 (3,489 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI) |
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Funny, my Maytag never needs any special filter removal or cleaning & very rarely-to-never spews any food particles back on anything; my tall milkshake glass is usualy a "victim" of such...
And in the instance that it does, I just buy a bottle of DISHWASHER CLEANER (just set in the bottom rack of the empty cavern, poke a hole, run some hot water from the nearby sink tap, turn the dishwasher on, running on the recommended cycle, and you're DONE!) but I need to wipe along the door area...! -- Dave | ||
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Post# 786467 , Reply# 16 9/30/2014 at 11:07 (3,489 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney) |
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Why would a well-designed dishwasher need a special cleaning agent? Every time it is used it cleans itself as well as its contents. There is something wrong with a dishwasher design that rquires a special product to keep it sanitary. | ||
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Post# 786499 , Reply# 18 9/30/2014 at 14:21 (3,489 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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 "A somewhat well designed filter cleans it self just as well during a drain period."
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| Post# 786500 , Reply# 19 9/30/2014 at 14:29 (3,489 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
logixx... | ||
| Post# 786503 , Reply# 20 9/30/2014 at 14:45 (3,489 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c ) | ||
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Well.... You can always do like I do and use vintage....My dishes and clothes are clean. | ||
| Post# 786524 , Reply# 22 9/30/2014 at 15:55 (3,489 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
Oh, for Pete's sake :-)
Whether a machine has a filter or not, the idea is that food soils are expelled down the drain as much as possible. With a filter, you're hoping to catch the lion's share of the lot and dump it earlier in the cycle. With designs like the non-passive-filter GEs and D&Ms, they used a lot of water to try and improve the chances that food soils would get sent down the drain with the water prior to the final rinse.
Filter machines usually circulate through one filter, then drain through a different one, to allow the food soils to be carried down the drain whenever possible. This is why many never need any attention when you run the normal cycles, but may if you use faster cycles that don't offer that mechanism the time and number of water changes it needs to operate reliably. Still others use soil separators and accumulators with varying degrees of success or what have you, but the point is still that the name of the game is to get the particulates down the drain as soon as possible. No machine strives to circulate water through food, and even those that do (and let's be real, it happens in all machines to some degree with occasional stray foodstuffs), it's likely some seriously clean food after spending the whole cycle in hot water and detergent. I've used all three primary designs, and found performance to be satisfactory with all, if operated with an eye toward their limitations and predilections...and very little in the way of food left at the end, in any of them. | ||
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Post# 789034 , Reply# 24 10/14/2014 at 18:56 (3,474 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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"Great cycles and features, but cleaning could be better | ||
| Post# 789037 , Reply# 25 10/14/2014 at 19:29 (3,474 days old) by washman (o) | ||
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Thus the logical conclusion from all of this is gee, one actually does need sufficient water to clean things! Whowouldathunk? | ||
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Post# 789066 , Reply# 26 10/15/2014 at 01:07 (3,474 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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The question about what is a sufficent amount of water Its true one needs enough water to clean dishes and laundry. Yet, some DW run as low as 2 gal, others need 10. Both use their own "sufficent" amount of water. In the end, you want results. If they are efficently reached as well, it only makes them better. | ||
| Post# 789100 , Reply# 28 10/15/2014 at 09:14 (3,474 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US) | ||
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I'm very confused at the mindset behind these "water-efficient" machines. From the specs of these new Whirlpools, the dishwasher will use about 3-4 gallons of water on a Normal cycle. However, if you read the fine print, that only happens with lightly soiled, basically prewashed, dishes. With a load of dishes much like I would load, covered in dried on sauces, oatmeal, and the stray pea or noodle and crumb of meat and the like, these machines can easily use 5-7 gallons, or sometimes more, making water changes 6+ times throughout the cycle.
Now, take the PowerClean design. The earlier models from '98 to around '02 would run a Prewash-Main Wash-Purge-Final Heated Rinse on the Normal cycle. At around 2.2 gallons per fill, that's about 6.8-7 gallons of water. Normal wash on these machines can easily wipe out what a new machine has to use Heavy or Pots & Pans for, which equates to the same amount of water. The later update to the PowerClean removed the prewash from the Normal cycle, as well as implementing a purge instead of a full prerinse on the Heavy cycle. At this point, Normal used about 4.5 gallons for a full cycle, and could still handle heavily soiled dishes. It would seem to me that if Whirlpool would revisit the strengths of the PC design, and update the motor and electronics to be more efficient and be smarter with water and time management, they would once again have a dishwasher that trumps the competition. One of its strong points, much like the Hobart KitchenAids, is that the water usage per fill is higher, but it does fewer water changes. If this dishwasher can run one wash and one rinse, with a purge in between, and get perfect results every time, why did we ever switch to using a thimbleful of water per charge, with water changes every five seconds? To me the logic behind more water per fill is that the soil coming off the dishes is much more diluted, and there is enough water to create a hurricane inside that flushes every surface clean. Once the wash is done and drained, and the small amount of water used in the purge clears the filter module, the same amount of water used for the wash is now used for the rinse, again, diluting any remaining detergent and soil to the point that it's nearly nonexistant, and the dishes get flushed squeaky clean. No kibble left in annoying places, no pesky film or residue left behind from the chemicals needed to compensate for the tiny amount of water in new machines, and a dishwasher that also keeps itself spotless even in the behind-the-scenes areas. Whirlpool had a good thing going at that time, and it seems that they were in that mindset with the Point Voyager design; it wasn't as solid and powerful as the PC, but it was still a great dishwasher. Then these "eco" designs came along and it's like they threw everything they had been improving upon for the last 30+ years straight out the window. | ||
| Post# 789434 , Reply# 33 10/17/2014 at 05:54 (3,472 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
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My Guess... | ||
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Post# 789439 , Reply# 34 10/17/2014 at 06:15 (3,472 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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The 3-Hour Normal Cycle: On my (and probably Ben's) GE dishwashers, 65 minutes of that is the drying portion of the cycle. The wash/rinse portion of the cycle (with wash temp boost selected) is 1 hour + 51 minutes.
GE uses sleight-of-hand when it comes to drying: If you don't select the Power Dry option, the timer registers 1:51. When the final rinse water has drained, the CLEAN light comes on and the tiny 2-watt fan continues to operate for 65 minutes (or until you open the door). If you select Power Dry, the timer simply adds 65 minutes to the total cycle time with no difference in drying protocol. I prefer to opt out of Power Dry and open the door when the CLEAN light comes on. The dishes flash dry in a minute and you're ready for the next load in under two hours. In fact, I rarely use the Wash Temp Boost option, as my home water heater is set at 140 degrees. This shortens the wash cycle to 1:15. | ||
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Post# 789444 , Reply# 35 10/17/2014 at 07:17 (3,472 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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To Barry in Post#31
Hi, You either have really bad water conditions or you need to use better detergents, there is no way that a newer KA DW will leave slime in the sump and food on dishes if it is loaded and used properly, If you feel that you these areas are OK then you need to call for warranty service.
KA DWs are among the Top Rated DWs by most testing organizations and we have very few cleaning complaints about them. | ||
| Post# 789446 , Reply# 36 10/17/2014 at 08:08 (3,472 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
These are some of the things 
I was afraid of when my dishwasher died. I was afraid that by the time it was time to get a new one, there would be nothing on the market that was worth anything. This past summer, my slightly over 9 year WP dishwasher died...I got a Maytag that has a chopper and no filter. I LOVE it....The built quality is nice and it washes dishes and doesn't take forever. It gets really hot......I haven't pulled anything dirty out of it yet. I don't rinse anything and do 3 to 4 loads per week, so the dishes sometimes sit in the dishwasher and dry with stuck on food until it gets ran. I'm so glad I didn't get an Eco Whirlpool. I gotta say, I *almost* did...
I wonder how LONG it will be before Whirlpool does to the Maytag's what they did with Whirlpool dishwashers? | ||
| Post# 789448 , Reply# 37 10/17/2014 at 08:55 (3,472 days old) by A440 () | ||
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Mark, What model is your DW? A friend of mine need a new DW and was asking me what I thought he should get. His wife will not do vintage. Thanks! Brent | ||
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Post# 789491 , Reply# 39 10/17/2014 at 17:30 (3,471 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN) |
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I've had the same fears about the new dishwashers. My 17 year-old Maytag makes noises from time to time so I've been researching. Emailed Maytag and Kitchenaid to ask about power ratings for their new motors to which they both replied, "We no longer give horsepower ratings for our dishwasher motors." Translated..."our new motors are so weak we are ashamed to give power ratings therefore we eliminated them from the labels"! I'm gonna find a porcelain tub KA that still works great and keep it for the day my Maytag dies and can't be resurrected. I have NEVER found any pieces of food in my MT. Took the filter apart one night just to see if it needed cleaning and to my surprise I only found some pieces of plastic wrap and a string...the sump and filter were completely clean. Hot enough water and enough detergent should be sufficient to keep them spotless inside!
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| Post# 789503 , Reply# 40 10/17/2014 at 19:08 (3,471 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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Hey Brent!
The particular model I got is no longer available........But this link here is the closest thing.....It's pretty much the same as mine, minus a couple of cycles I believe. Mine is white.
I always use autoclean with high temp/tough scrub (no heated dry) because I open it as soon as it's done and the dishes flash dry pretty quickly.....and it runs usually about 100 minutes give or take. It has the Jetclean with steam cycle but I've yet to use that. I'm sure that runs a LONG time.. CLICK HERE TO GO TO mark_wpduet's LINK | ||
| Post# 789504 , Reply# 41 10/17/2014 at 19:15 (3,471 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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whoops
forgot to mention. On the new Maytag's instead of Jetclean with steam cycle, they re-named it PowerBlast. Same thing, different name. Additionally, the one I linked has the staineless silverware basket....The one for 699 would be closer to the model I got.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO mark_wpduet's LINK | ||
| Post# 789524 , Reply# 42 10/17/2014 at 23:17 (3,471 days old) by A440 () | ||
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Thank you Mark!! | ||
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Post# 789545 , Reply# 43 10/18/2014 at 07:30 (3,471 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 867525 , Reply# 45 2/16/2016 at 21:46 (2,984 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA) |
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control settings I prefer to see what cycle and option I am using. For example, I use normal and high temp wash 98 percent of the time. With the top controls, you cannot see it on normal/high temp wash. I agree with appnut. I need to see what my dishwasher is doing! | ||
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Post# 867528 , Reply# 46 2/16/2016 at 22:14 (2,984 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA) |
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cycle program When I use normal/high temp wash, It does a prewash, main wash, purge and final rinse. If I selected heated dry, which it does by default, it will dry the dishes with heat. If Whirlpool dishwashers continued making dishwashers with hard food disposers, we wouldn't have to worry about cleaning those stupid filters. | ||
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