Thread Number: 56756  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
All New Whirlpool Cabrio
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Post# 790645   10/26/2014 at 07:25 (3,440 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        

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I just saw a commercial for this on HGTV.



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Post# 790646 , Reply# 1   10/26/2014 at 07:32 (3,440 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Commercial

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Here is the commercial...






Post# 790647 , Reply# 2   10/26/2014 at 08:02 (3,440 days old) by BoschExxcel ()        

Im not a fan of toploaders but that's nice!

Post# 790648 , Reply# 3   10/26/2014 at 08:20 (3,440 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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I seen it too....while the impellor may seem a bit different than the past, I am curious as to its washing effectiveness of past versions....

outside of one wash cycle with a DeepWash, I don't see this any more than a new face lift on old technology....most likely still doesn't have a sprinkler, or add any more water to the load.....

and what?.....$500.00+++dollars for a machine with a DownyBall!

AND its gonna hold 4 baskets of laundry per load, the old version was barely effective at 1/2 basket!.....


they should to offer a double your money back guarantee that you will love its performance!.....Whirlpool offered a 6 month trial on the Calypso when it came out, love it or return it!....that's how I got mine....


Post# 790649 , Reply# 4   10/26/2014 at 08:20 (3,440 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
F&P Design?

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I hope this machine is based on the Fisher Paykel Smart Drive design!

I haven't gone through the manual yet. Might shed some more light on it...

Malcolm


Post# 790655 , Reply# 5   10/26/2014 at 09:00 (3,440 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Observations...

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1) No Downey Ball, dispenser in drawer.
2) No SOFTENER button. Must always rinse with softener enabled.
3) Deep Water isn't a cycle, it is a modifier to most cycles.
4) Five Cycle buttons on the left. How To's are modifiers.
5) Steam option, so there is a heater.
6) No hoses included!
7) No Sanitize certification, so Hot must be Warm.

Malcolm


Post# 790656 , Reply# 6   10/26/2014 at 09:00 (3,440 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

I actually think it's quite amazing. Instead of x cycles, there are 6 selections on what you wash (I think it was mixed, casual, delicate, bulky, sheets&towels and darks) and 6 selections on how to wash it (Normal, Fast, Eco, Delicate, DeepWater and ColdWater wash).
It has a heater, a recirc (some Cabrios have one, I'm pretty sure) and a timed oxy dispenser.
At least on the UI side, it's one step ahead.


Post# 790658 , Reply# 7   10/26/2014 at 09:11 (3,440 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Dryer

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1) BIG 8.8 cu ft.
2) No Reverse Tumbling.
3) No drying rack.
4) Exhaust length seems shorter than expected.

Malcolm


Post# 790659 , Reply# 8   10/26/2014 at 09:12 (3,440 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
@mrb627 On point 7

Not sure about that. The NSF certification requires 4 consecutive minutes at a temperature of 160°F I think. No way to reach this without the use of a heater.
Though, on Normal mode, Hot will be Warm, I doubt this is true for all How To's.
And there are only 5 selections. I read the manual earlier this week.


Post# 790670 , Reply# 9   10/26/2014 at 10:40 (3,440 days old) by A440 ()        

Not a wash action I would like to have.
About the dryer....when did Whirlpool start putting that big bolt in the back of the dryer? And why? Looks like it would snag fabrics with a full load. There is a picture of the dryer in the first link that Malcolm provided. Last picture at the bottom of the page.


Post# 790671 , Reply# 10   10/26/2014 at 10:49 (3,440 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

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I'm not a fan of the impeller style machines, but I do like what they've done to this one. The cycle and option selections remind me of the Kenmore from the POD 10/23/14, where the cycles are named Colors, Special Knits, etc. I'm also glad that the Deep Wash is an option that can be added to almost any cycle, so it gives the consumer a CHOICE to use the low water HE wash, or a more traditional cycle. I wonder if the new design of the wash plate is to give better "blooming" wash action in both low and high water situations.

I do see this as a step in the right direction. I'm glad that while Whirlpool is a large corporation, they are campaigning now to appreciate things like laundry and other chores, rather than trying to cover them up by saying "just push this button and forget it". Rather than saturate the machine with gimmicks and bells and whistles, everything on the control panel is something that will be useful in some form to any user. It also is without the need for WiFi and apps and other watered down features. I'm almost wanting to buy it right now haha.

If you haven't, you should go to their website and watch the video for their Every day, care. campaign. I like the message that they are relaying, especially because of how much I appreciate the work that goes into the things that are sometimes taken for granted.


Post# 790672 , Reply# 11   10/26/2014 at 10:50 (3,440 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Interesting Statement

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Here is an interesting statement on their main page for this "NEW" technology...

"School administrators have found that students not having clean clothes to wear is a known contributor to truancy."

Is that right?

Malcolm


Post# 790674 , Reply# 12   10/26/2014 at 10:58 (3,440 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
New WP TL Impeller Washer

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It looks like it is the F&P motor direct drive version of the WP Cabrio machine.

While these washers have been out for almost ten years now they have held up no better than the Calypso and certainly are more problematic about balancing and handling big loads than the Calypso. It should have the recirculating water pump system however, all the DD top load washers have had one.


Post# 790675 , Reply# 13   10/26/2014 at 10:58 (3,440 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        
Bolt on back of the dryer ...

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That's the steam nozzle, yes?


Post# 790676 , Reply# 14   10/26/2014 at 11:09 (3,440 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Nozzle

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Not sure about the spray nozzle. Expected it the be higher on the bulkhead rather than dead center...

Wonder if there may eventually be a agitator model...

Malcolm


Post# 790677 , Reply# 15   10/26/2014 at 11:21 (3,440 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        
I guess I just don't get it

Why are these any better than a plain old front load washer?


Post# 790679 , Reply# 16   10/26/2014 at 11:28 (3,440 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
jerrod6

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Jerrod6,

For some frontloaders are not a choice i may not like front loaders but for some it easyer using a topload washer right now i may have a frontload washer as a daily driver but the next washer me and my mom will buy will be the hubesch topload zwn432 model with matching dryer and also it depends on space where the washer is install. So far this new whirlpool looks great makes me wonder if they will offer an agitator model as well.


Post# 790680 , Reply# 17   10/26/2014 at 11:37 (3,440 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Cabrio Agitator Model?

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I don't think you will ever see any new agitator machines introduced, WP had an agitator version of this washer earlier that has been discontinued.

Agitator washing of clothing is just not efficient [unless you reuse the wash water for at least three loads of clothing ], you just can't get users to use the huge quantities of detergents hot water etc needed for good cleaning, and if you do manage to use enough detergent for decent cleaning you use way too much water trying to rinse clothing in a deep rinse washer.

Fortunately for all mankind Agitator full fill washers are fast going the way of the incandescent light bulb.


Post# 790686 , Reply# 18   10/26/2014 at 11:54 (3,440 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Metal pin

I'm not sure if I'm right that I assume A440 ment that little pin in the middle back of the drum?
It would be a good place for a temperature sensor. It would not be affected by directed hot air streams or cold laundry.
For a water nozzle the place would not as good as direct hot air is needed to create the vapor.
An electric dryness sensor dosen't make sense as well as it would not have enough laundry contact.


Post# 790711 , Reply# 19   10/26/2014 at 16:34 (3,440 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

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I don't recall ever needing to use huge quantities of laundry detergent or hot water in any washer in my lifetime, and most certainly not in the 2012 belt-drive Whirlpool I have now. I can load dirty clothes to the top of the basket, sometimes more, use a scoop or cap full of detergent to the line recommended on the box for either type of washer, and the clothes feel crisp and clean after one rinse. The only obstacle in the way is the long fated battle against the detergent manufacturers, one hugely guilty culprit being P&G, stripping the product we've always used with great results of its core ingredients, only to put them in a more expensive bottle with a fancier smell and name.

Regardless of front-load, top-load impeller, or top-load agitator styles, water's chemical makeup has not changed in the time humans have walked the earth. Scientists have not suddenly recoded its molecules to be more effective in lower quantities. It still takes water to clean, and it still takes water to flush detergent and left over dirt particles away.

Jumping to a different but related note, it's nice to see that some companies are putting the consumer's choice back into the machines. For too long a user has been forced to endure things like measly spray rinsing and luke-warm water when they need hot. So far, Speed-Queen is producing washers that now appease the DoE while still offering traditional cycles that work as people wish. With this new Whirlpool, it's now possible for any cycle to use deep water should it be desired, and having a heater built in will at least give steaming hot water when dirty diapers and soiled bedsheets need it most.

The bottom-line is that consumers should be able to use the machines they pay for as they see fit. It's up to the manufacturers to make sure that is possible while also making sure the machine CAN abide by energy restrictions under a regular basis. If you feel that your clothes are being sufficiently cleaned by half a gallon of water, more power to you. If you can't wear your clothes without itching unless they have gone through three deep rinse cycles, you should have the power to do so.

My grandmother washes a load of clothes that should be set to large on her plastic GE top-load, but is actually set at Extra Large, as she feels the clothes should roll freely. After the initial wash and rinse cycle, she sets the timer control to Heavy Soil again, without detergent, and lets the machine proceed through an entire wash and rinse again. I myself don't deem that many rinses necessary, as I'm happy with my washer's performance, but she feels more comfortable if she knows there is no more detergent residue left, and that's all that matters.


Post# 790725 , Reply# 20   10/26/2014 at 17:45 (3,440 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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I couldn't find in the manual anywhere which shows which cycles/options the Steam and heater is an option. And if it was available when the option for higher amount of water is used. 


Post# 790726 , Reply# 21   10/26/2014 at 17:54 (3,440 days old) by A440 ()        

It is so strange....
Looks like a bolt to me in the back of the drum.


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Post# 790728 , Reply# 22   10/26/2014 at 18:03 (3,440 days old) by A440 ()        
Just Curious....

Are the Cabrio and Bravos dryers using this same blower set up?
Why is the blower set up like this? So the drum can be bigger in the same size cabinet?
Many complaints about this design.



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Post# 790731 , Reply# 23   10/26/2014 at 18:32 (3,440 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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this could prove to be an interesting machine and setup.......

first of all, its a TIER 1 for Energy Efficiency.....that means it will use more water....

and the operating instructions are specific of not favoring ALL Cold washes.....warm/hot must be used for clothes cleaning as well as machine maintenance....that was interesting, and something we have been saying all along!

if it is along the F&P design, lets hope the function of the machine is as well, don't see a mention of a recirc/sprinkler, but alternating spin and wash will at least make sure detergent and water are saturated through the load....

I'd like to see one in action on a regular load....


Post# 790733 , Reply# 24   10/26/2014 at 19:15 (3,440 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Isn't this the drum design that tore apart in some of the new Duets?



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Post# 790734 , Reply# 25   10/26/2014 at 19:28 (3,440 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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According to the parts list, this washer works like the other current Cabrio Platinum models: recirculation pump and F&P-style Direct Drive motor.


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Post# 790735 , Reply# 26   10/26/2014 at 19:33 (3,440 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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The "pin" in the center of the drum is indeed a steam nozzle. The dryer is 2 1/4 inches deeper than other Cabrio dryers. The vent system:


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Post# 790779 , Reply# 27   10/27/2014 at 06:14 (3,439 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Still...

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They are a nice looking pair. Glad to see they have gotten away from those membrane switches that eventually fail. I wasn't sure that Whirlpool would step into the UBER TL market. Leaving it to the imports...

Malcolm


Post# 790781 , Reply# 28   10/27/2014 at 06:50 (3,439 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
New WP Washer and Dryer

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About the only thing really new to these machines is the touch electronic control that does away with the troublesome membrane controls that Malcolm mentioned.

The nut looking thing in the middle of the dryer bulkhead is just a spray port that a fine mist of water comes out of for the steam feature, WP-KM has had this feature for about 10 years now.

WP builds dryers with three different style blowers, direct drive with the blower wheel mounted directly on the front or rear of the motor, this dryer has the blower on the front of the motor.

On some of their bigger dryers they either use a belt driven blower like Brent posted in reply # 22, on higher end models the blower has its own variable speed motor eliminating the belt. We have not seen many problems with these new systems, but they are more complicated and will be prone to some problems that you would not have with the blower mounted directly on the motor.

The excessive lint build-up pictured in reply#22-2 is typical of a dryer that is not vented properly [ or at all LOL ]. The pictured build-up has NOTHING to do with the design of this dryer, I have seen every dryer design imaginable is as bad a condition in my career. The picture Brent shows has also been doctored if you look at the duct at the bottom of the lint filter housing, you can see they stuffed hand fulls of lint in it before the picture was taken, lint would never built-up in clumps like that. For a dryer to be in this condition the area around the dryer would also about the same.


Post# 790825 , Reply# 29   10/27/2014 at 12:58 (3,439 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Tub Light(s)

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Seems that we have lost the ability to turn the drum lights on during operation on both of these machines. Too bad...

Malcolm


Post# 790829 , Reply# 30   10/27/2014 at 13:19 (3,439 days old) by Pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)        
I have been given the green light to reveal some details

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FINALLY! I have been reading this thread waiting to tell you more about this machine! I've spent quite a bit of time on this machine so I am happy to answer as many questions as I can about it!

1) This is NOT an Oasis machine. It is not based on the Fisher & Paykel design. This is an entirely new platform. Yes, it does still use a BPM motor just like the Oasis machines.

2) The washer has a drawer type dispenser for detergent, softener, and oxi-bleach (on some models). There is a separate chlorine bleach dispenser that dumps into the tub like most washers have. (As opposed to dumping in the basket where the chemicals from the drawer go.)

3) The washer does have a recirculation spray. It comes from about the 4 or 5 o'clock postion.

4) The washer does not have a drum light (sadly).

5) The nozzle in the dryer is for water. It sprays a very fine mist on the clothes to create steam.

6) You couldn't turn the drum light on in the dryer for any of the Oasis match (Saguaro) dryers that had the Whirlpool label on them. You could on the Maytag Bravos though I believe.


Post# 790831 , Reply# 31   10/27/2014 at 13:25 (3,439 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Interior Lights: That seems to be happening with more and more brands/models. Whirlpool and Maytag front-loaders are two examples. The GE RightHeight model (spendy, of course) still allows the light on during operation, as do some LG models.

I'm starting to think I need to hang on to my 2010 Frigidaire pair as long as possible: No dumbed-down hot water; shorter Normal cycle time (44 vs. 80+); steam, allergen and sanitize water heating options; Max fill option (which I use on loads with liquid chlorine bleach); interior light can be switched on during cycle; most importantly, they're paid for, LOL!

As for the "What" and "How" controls: Merely different words describing the same controls all our washers have. "What" = Cycle; "How" = Options/Modifiers/Default Settings. Great electronic touch controls, though! Had them on my LG dishwasher and far preferred them to the membrane controls on the Frigidaire washer. Glassy and classy.

Edit: Thanks for the official update, Jamie! We always appreciate any inside information you can share with us.


Post# 790861 , Reply# 32   10/27/2014 at 18:45 (3,439 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
New DD TL Whirlpool Washers

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Thanks for the information Jamie, I discovered this morning when looking over the parts list that this machine is indeed quite different from previous F&P style washers.

The big difference that I see is the washer can agitate without filling the machine with enough water to cause the inner basket to float and disengage the basket from the drive shaft and only allow the impeller to be driven. This change may allow much smaller amounts of water to be used in this washer than the previous design.

It also appears that this new WP washer design now has an easy to change shaft,seal and bearing assembly. This will make this washer easier to keep running for longer service life as well as making it use even less energy than the previous design.

I say this is great news, thanks Jamie for your efforts on this new machine, and to think we knew when you were just 13 years old and now you are helping make the washers of tomorrow possible.


Post# 790912 , Reply# 33   10/28/2014 at 01:08 (3,439 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

I HATE whirlpool and I'm not a huge fan of top load washers but I have to be fair and admit these machines have a breathtaking design.

it's probably the first time in my life that I can say "WOW" after seeing a new Whirlpool washer.

My only concern is... impeller again? Let me guess: this machine uses more water (2 teaspoons + 2 drops)


Post# 790929 , Reply# 34   10/28/2014 at 05:44 (3,438 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

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Nobody mentions impellers knotting sheets? My impeller certainly does. Reversing does not diminish it. Offset (off the tub axis) impellers don't but I haven't seen one of those since my 1973 Panasonic twintub and it would be very difficult to implement in a tub which also spins.

Post# 791001 , Reply# 35   10/28/2014 at 16:33 (3,438 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
I think it's cool that

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"deep water" is a modifier! That means you can choose a cycle and add deep water to that cycle if you want. I'm so glad that they are starting to give us more options like that on washers that they took away the past few years.

Post# 791023 , Reply# 36   10/28/2014 at 17:51 (3,438 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Deep Water ?

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Don't be fooled, I guarantee that this new version of this washer uses LESS water than the older one, just because it says Deep Water, don't expect even a 1/2 tub of water in an impeller machine.

Post# 791031 , Reply# 37   10/28/2014 at 19:01 (3,438 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

I think this post proves your knowleg about this type and design of washer...
The standard cycle is still the low water system (though we can suspect all deep rinses as the softner option lacks AFAIK). Yet, as seen on some lower end Maytags before, there is an option called DeepWater wash. If it works like on the Maytag conter part, it actually drasticly increases water levels.
And if you don’t exepct such: F&P do it since they have introduced low profile agitators (LPA).
(Side note: Technicly, it is not an impeller. Impellers turn faster and more than 720° arc. A LPA stays below 720° and spins slower.)


Post# 791055 , Reply# 38   10/28/2014 at 22:24 (3,438 days old) by Joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA)        

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Maybe the water recirculation system eliminates the need for a special softener setting. If the rinse water is recirculated, then fabric softener can be evenly dispersed without a deep fill.

Post# 791079 , Reply# 39   10/29/2014 at 03:56 (3,438 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Take one for the team?

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So who will take one for the team and buy this set?

Malcolm


Post# 791090 , Reply# 40   10/29/2014 at 06:57 (3,437 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Whos Going To Buy One

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Hi Malcolm, I am quite content to wait, but I can probably get a scratch and dent one within a few months for 1/2 dealer price and if I wait about 2-3 years I can get one on the scrap pile for the usual $20.

Post# 791150 , Reply# 41   10/29/2014 at 13:38 (3,437 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Training?

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John,

Will you or have you been to training on this model yet?

Malcolm


Post# 792519 , Reply# 42   11/7/2014 at 13:08 (3,428 days old) by WP-Dude22 (Trinidad and Tobago )        

@A440
the dryer blower was designed like that for higher airflow and because i think those models of WP cabrio dryers did reverse tumbling but im not sure as for that pic with lint OMG that is horrid ..


Post# 792587 , Reply# 43   11/7/2014 at 19:18 (3,428 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Reverse Tumble Cabrio Dryers ?

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I am not aware of any WP Cabrio dryers that reverse tumble and in my experience having a dryer reverse tumble is a complete waste of time that actually makes the dryer take longer to dry and causes more repair issues.

There is no need for a decent sized dryer to reverse tumble, there have only been about two US appliance makers that ever made a dryer that reverse tumbles and both were abandoned because it did not help and just caused problems.


Post# 792846 , Reply# 44   11/9/2014 at 05:03 (3,426 days old) by washman (o)        
Well murando531

if nothing else, this overwrought piece of plastic will certainly satisfy the eco-nazis and those who have consumed enough Kool Aid to believe that gee, after decades washing cotton/poly blends with lots of water, we surely don't need all that water (remember, according to the almighty UN delegation on climate change, there's a massive water shortage).

Bunk. That's all this is. Pure, unadulterated bunk.

As far as I am concerned, this is old wine in a new eco-sacntioned bottle.

And who in their right mind designed a belt drive to make a 90 degree turn like that on the dryer? Chevy tried it with the Corvair and those were notorious for eating belts.


Post# 792853 , Reply# 45   11/9/2014 at 06:11 (3,426 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Gee, we got it...

You need and want and belive in several hundreds of liters of water for washing. And if you think so, OK. No problem. Do what ever you want.
And yeah, I think we all got that in your opinion climate change does not exist, there is no water shortage and you just get tricked. If you want to belive this, do what ever you want.
We are really glad to hear your comments on design and build of that washer. Really, that dryer design seems somehow strange and clearly trys to cut cost for BOL dryers that are not equipped with an additional fan motor.
But please, do us and this forum the favor of not repeating the same point over and over, commenting in each post about the same thing, not contributing to the discussion about what the post is about.
If you want to talk about the non-sense of HE wash systems, open a thread about it! (Actually, I don't think there has been one dedicated thread about this topic...) Than everybody who wants to read about opinions on HE washing can read your opinion in the one specific topic and those who heared enough about your opinion don't have to read it in every second topic it does not belong in.
This post is about that particular HE wash system, not about HE washing. So don't say why HE washing does not work, say why this new washer can't work.


Post# 792877 , Reply# 46   11/9/2014 at 07:56 (3,426 days old) by washman (o)        
In all honesty henene4

I neglected to clarify my statement. Climate change in fact does exist. Has for centuries. Happens 4x a year where I live. We call it Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter. What do you folks in Germany call it?

And guess what, humans have no control over it. Big surprise eh?

Now back to the machines. I notice both have the now ubiquitous "sanitize" cycles. The use and care guide for the dryer states, in part, "*Extended high-heat drying cycle intended to help sanitize items such as sheets and towels. This cycle is not recommended for all fabrics".

Could this not be accomplished by setting an ordinary dryer to a longer heat cycle?

And what study, pray tell, indicates that our laundry is full of germs? Do we have conclusive proof that, gee, we're all sick to our stomachs because we're wearing germ laden clothes? Would you be so kind to direct me to a link stating this?

Like the sanitize cycle in our dishwashers (and mine has it too) it is a crock. What exists on your grubby hands? Bacteria and viruses! What floats around your house, yes even the kitchen? Same thing. So please tell me that unless you have a sophisticated air filtration system in your humble abode, the very second you take out your sanitized clothes or dishes, guess what........they're gonna be covered in germs! In other words they won't STAY sanitized.

Therefore, what is the point of having these cycles when your home and mine is far from a sanitized environment?

And what about the part in the washer manual that states the machine has to be cleaned every 30 cycles? Explain to me if you can how that is efficient? How does that negate my so-called "carbon footprint" when I have to buy additional cleaners which use raw materials, fossil fuels to make and transport, along with the wasted use of water and electricity in NOT doing laundry? That might make sense to somebody but it makes no sense to me.


Post# 792880 , Reply# 47   11/9/2014 at 08:11 (3,426 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)        

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Ok Washman its now VERY clear if it wasn't already before that your here to troll.

We've heard your opinions on every darn thread it seems and no amount of explaining time and time again from anyone here is going to work is it?

I mean you cant fix stupid right? So I see no reason for anyone to try and fix you.

Its a waste of time.

The suggestion of you to have your own thread is a very good idea then you can chat away merrily to yourself as you see fit and nobody else need see your pointless moaning.







Post# 792890 , Reply# 48   11/9/2014 at 10:42 (3,426 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
90 Degree Twisted Blower Belt

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This type of minor twist should cause little problem in terms of belt life, the forward-backwards twisting of of the drum drive belt of all dryers as they go around the motor pulley and then the idler pulley is far worse for belt life.

And if you really want to talk about bad design and belt life look no father than a SQ TL washer, last week we ran a call on one that was 6 months old where the pump got a sock caught in it. The plastic impeller drive stripped out and the washer continued to try spinning with water in the tub and the belt got so hot it melted the transmission drive pulley. So the washer needed a pump, belt and a transmission drive pulley.

Ben the Corvairs belt was quite a different situation, their belt was driving an alternator, large engine cooling fan in a hot oily engine compartment, and it was just an old school 1/2" V belt.


Post# 792909 , Reply# 49   11/9/2014 at 12:44 (3,426 days old) by washman (o)        
my apologies aquarius1984

Before I post next time, I'll be sure to get your blessing.

Sorry I have an opinion that differs from yours.

Don't like this thread? Fine. Then don't read it and more to the point, don't post on it.


Post# 800069 , Reply# 50   12/21/2014 at 11:59 (3,384 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Appliance Guru's now?

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I just got in from running a couple errands. One of which took me inside my local Lowes. So, as I usually do, I strolled through the appliances section.

While there, I saw the latest Cabrio offering at $1100 for each piece w/d.

Before I could get away, I was approached by a woman who proclaimed herself as the appliance guru for Lowe's. We spoke about the machine and she conveyed her disappointment in Whirlpool not offering this machine with the direct drive system but rather the noisy belt drive.

Abruptly, she steered me to the TL LG machine with the controls on the front. Said these were the best machines on the market today. She opened the lid and said look at that all stainless interior.

It was then I interrupted her. "It's just so much plastic and feels so cheaply made." "Oh, they are all plastic now." I said, "That's not true" "Speed Queen is still built out of metal." She shrugged and stated, "Speed Queen? Are they still in business? You probably can't buy them anywhere."

Appliance Guru my eye!

Malcolm


Post# 800080 , Reply# 51   12/21/2014 at 12:42 (3,384 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Post# 800084 , Reply# 52   12/21/2014 at 12:55 (3,384 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Is Speed Queen Still Made

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Love it Malcolm, did she have a appliance degree, I would have asked to see it, LOL.

Post# 800087 , Reply# 53   12/21/2014 at 13:19 (3,384 days old) by Murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

murando531's profile picture
Precisely the reason I already despise my job at Home Depot after only a month and a half, and I'm most likely walking out first thing tomorrow morning. They hired me after seeming impressed at the portfolio of machines I've restored, and the amount of mechanical and historical knowledge I have of appliances, and they gave all these promises of me being able to become Whirlpool tech certified so I could be a part of their technical service program, in addition to the opportunity of becoming department head and being able to really turn the place around and lead the markets. Nope. There's no such thing. The people I work with know nothing more than what the signs and brochures say. Everyone there seems to worship Samsung as the "leading appliance manufacturer", for what reason I don't know. Ask them about the difference between a washer with a direct drive inverter motor and one with a belt drive PSC; they know of no such thing. On top of that, the appliance department is part of the kitchen and bath department, and we're expected to cover that entire section, countertops, cabinets, plumbing, baths and showers, flooring, toilets, in addition to appliances. Maybe, MAYBE 1/10th of the customers I work with are actually for an appliance.

It's all about numbers and sales at these places. If a person can identify a washer and refrigerator, and read the signs posted above them, that's the only skill they need to become a "certified appliance specialist".


Post# 803395 , Reply# 54   1/11/2015 at 07:32 (3,363 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Additional Models?

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According to this video, there is an additional model set arriving in the Spring.






Appears the dryer has four full baffles in the drum now.

Malcolm


Post# 803410 , Reply# 55   1/11/2015 at 09:03 (3,363 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
New models will include WTW8000D, WTW8040D and WTW8500D.

Post# 803420 , Reply# 56   1/11/2015 at 09:47 (3,363 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Cool.

mrb627's profile picture
Do you know what the differences will be between them?

Malcolm


Post# 803429 , Reply# 57   1/11/2015 at 10:15 (3,363 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
From looking at the parts lists, I can see that the 8000 is lacking the heater and water recirculation.

Post# 803434 , Reply# 58   1/11/2015 at 10:35 (3,363 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        


mrb627's profile picture
Owner Video!






Not much to see, but it sounds like the F&P design to me.

Malcolm


Post# 803451 , Reply# 59   1/11/2015 at 12:12 (3,363 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

murando531's profile picture
Is the drain pump on this machine vertically mounted? Sounds like the rhythmic cavitating my WP WTW4800 makes.

I've been wondering about the drive system on these. I heard somewhere they were the VWM platform, which made no sense with it being their highest-end. We had one of the lower ends with the redesigned wash plate and tub out on the salesfloor, but I couldn't lift the tub, so it definitely was the belt-drive.


Post# 803460 , Reply# 60   1/11/2015 at 13:22 (3,363 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
Once again,

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Post# 803462 , Reply# 61   1/11/2015 at 13:43 (3,363 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

murando531's profile picture
Oops, sorry haha. I had forgotten that you had linked the parts diagram before.

I noticed looking closer that there is now a "clutch assembly" and a gearbox of sorts. I wonder if they finally realized that floating that basket took way too much water, and half of it wasn't even in the tub with the clothes.


Post# 803481 , Reply# 62   1/11/2015 at 15:35 (3,363 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Cherry Metalic?

mrb627's profile picture
Now there is a color I wanna see!

Malcolm


Post# 803663 , Reply# 63   1/12/2015 at 15:07 (3,362 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

That vid of the new washer with the water glass on top is making the same sound our 1993 Whirlpool TL machine makes when it is finishing the neutral drain. I knew I've heard that sound before.

Post# 805640 , Reply# 64   1/24/2015 at 04:34 (3,350 days old) by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND)        

jkbff's profile picture
These are pretty machines. I love the controls!

Post# 805690 , Reply# 65   1/24/2015 at 11:33 (3,350 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Local Lowes

mrb627's profile picture
I went into a different Lowes this morning after a doctor's appointment. This Cabrio pair were on sale at 799 each. But next to the UBER Samsung, these look puny.

Malcolm


Post# 808183 , Reply# 66   2/8/2015 at 10:40 (3,335 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Video

mrb627's profile picture
If this is Whirlpool's new flagship, then they are dead to me!






Malcolm


Post# 808185 , Reply# 67   2/8/2015 at 11:15 (3,335 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
I apparently didn't notice a loud noise.  At what timeframe did it occur?


Post# 808186 , Reply# 68   2/8/2015 at 11:20 (3,335 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

This sounds indeed strange. A usual IDD sound, but way louder and kind of echo-ish.
Though I somehow think it might be related to the room this was set up in. I mean, the noise sounds rather like empty room for me. With a solid floor in a big room with only the set in it, it might be just an acustic trick. I mean, even the water entering the machine sounds quite loud, IMHO. Like a shower, almost...


Post# 808188 , Reply# 69   2/8/2015 at 11:34 (3,335 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
That's the sound I hear on all the vidoes of this drive system. Maybe the drain oan amplifies the noise level, don't know.

Post# 808201 , Reply# 70   2/8/2015 at 12:49 (3,335 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Well...

mrb627's profile picture
when Whirlpool is marketing these machines as so quiet you can wash while you baby sleeps. I say hogwash!






Malcolm


Post# 808202 , Reply# 71   2/8/2015 at 12:49 (3,335 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

That is what the rest of the worlds Top loader machines have sounded like since the late 80's.

I wasn't hearing anything out of the ordinary.


Post# 808203 , Reply# 72   2/8/2015 at 12:52 (3,335 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
There is noise and then there is noise...









Post# 808206 , Reply# 73   2/8/2015 at 12:54 (3,335 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Perhaps you better buy the newest model. The Whirlpool Caribo!









Post# 808211 , Reply# 74   2/8/2015 at 13:12 (3,335 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Childhood Joy

mrb627's profile picture
You have to appreciate the enthusiasm of these two brothers. Sad that these machines are as noisy as they are when the comparable Korean offerings are much quieter.

Post# 808434 , Reply# 75   2/9/2015 at 11:55 (3,334 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

murando531's profile picture
That is most certainly not the direct drive inverter motor in that video. That sounds exactly like the VMW (or VWM? I always confuse them) motor and belt-drive system. Either that or they have completely botched up F&P's SmartDrive system. I guess I'm glad now to at least have the Bravos/Cabrio before they phase it out in place of this "new" system. I love the sound of the motor in this machine. Sounds just like the video that foraloysius posted above, albeit much quieter with the insulation underneath and the lid closed.

Post# 808441 , Reply# 76   2/9/2015 at 12:30 (3,334 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
F&P has done several engineering and control revisions on SmartDrive that resulted in different operational sounds.  My IWL12 may exhibit a smooth rrrrrr-rrrrrr-rrrrrr on some agitation profiles and a squeely rrsqqrrr-rrsqqrrr-rrsqqrrr or sqqqqrr-sqqqqrr-sqqqqrr sound on others, all on the same machine.  Is Whirlpool required to follow F&P's revisions or can they make their own customizations?


Post# 808609 , Reply# 77   2/10/2015 at 10:28 (3,333 days old) by Pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)        

pulsator's profile picture
The new machine does NOT have the Fisher Paykel drive system in it. It DOES have a direct drive BPM motor with a planetary drive.

Post# 811709 , Reply# 78   3/1/2015 at 09:00 (3,314 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Well, it is all up to taste...

... but personally, I'd rather stay with plain white.

  View Full Size
Post# 811713 , Reply# 79   3/1/2015 at 09:26 (3,314 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
those machine are loud for some reason....I have a belt drive version....and there is some noise, but not like that....mine does have this very thick insulation covering the bottom of the machine.....

for many machines, like in a kitchen, I slid a piece of carpet or foam padding under both the washer and dryer, it greatly reduced that echo effect...

as for the new Platinum Whirlpools, basically these are "Machines for Dummy's"....you have to select "What to wash" and "How to Wash"....

the best review I seen was one lady complained it poured bleach all over a colored load.....WOW, are we the Jetson's...imagine that, a machine that lift that bottle of bleach up and pours it over your laundry....must have been one pissed off machine....I asked her to see a video of the machine doing that....because it could no way in the world be her fault!....she would make a fortune if it could load and unload itself too.....IDIOTS!


Post# 811852 , Reply# 80   3/2/2015 at 00:13 (3,314 days old) by Murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

murando531's profile picture
Our Lowe's finally has this set on the floor. In person it's alot less impressive. It seems to have a huge capacity, but just as my Bravos is large, I know that the water level will be only about 20% of that tub at most. I was disappointed at the build quality of the lid on the washer and also the dryer door. Both have that squeaky plastic sound when opened and closed. I wonder if the see through material is acrylic instead of glass, because it doesn't feel heavy or solid at all. The dryer door actually bends and wobbles when you try to close it. I hate the dispenser drawer as well. Seems like more trouble than the built in dispensers around the opening, not to mention how flimsy the drawer is.

Apparently the washer was in its "agitate" mode when shut down and boxed up, and I could tell it's a similar drive system to what LG, and by extension, Samsung, have been using in their impeller style washers for a while. I turned the basket and the impeller would rotate at a slower but set rate, just as the LG will. I reached down and manually turned the impeller and you could hear and feel the gears that are now in place. I wonder why they decided that the Cabrio now needs a gearbox? And why does this machine sound so loud in comparison to the F&P drive version if it's supposed to be the TOL right now?


Post# 811900 , Reply# 81   3/2/2015 at 07:40 (3,313 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Echoing My Findings...

mrb627's profile picture
Once I saw this pair on the floor at my local Lowes, I was much less enthusiastic about them. Poor build quality is "in your face" obvious. Almost makes me angry that this is what Whirlpool has been reduced to...

Malcolm


Post# 811960 , Reply# 82   3/2/2015 at 12:31 (3,313 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Seems as if Whirlpool might use this as the new washer platform - now there are models with a dial as well.


  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 811965 , Reply# 83   3/2/2015 at 13:34 (3,313 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

murando531's profile picture
Like the Cabrio, this looks really nice in the pictures but I'm sure it looks and feels like junk in real life. I can already hear the plasticky squeaking from that lid just from seeing the photos!!

Kinda makes me glad I got a high-end Bravos before the redesign. Despite some of the things I find annoying about the machine, it does have a very solid construction, at least in all the parts that are interactive with the user, and it has a nice clean but robust look to it. Overall I do like my washer a lot.


Post# 811992 , Reply# 84   3/2/2015 at 15:42 (3,313 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
when i see a washer dryer like the new whirlpool and maytag

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when i see the new whirlpool and maytag line i think so far the new speed queen huebsch 2015 are the much better choice

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 814591 , Reply# 85   3/18/2015 at 11:26 (3,297 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
Kenmore Version

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www.sears.com/kenmore-5.3-cu-ft-t...


  View Full Size
Post# 816779 , Reply# 86   3/31/2015 at 19:57 (3,284 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Post# 816797 , Reply# 87   3/31/2015 at 21:37 (3,284 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

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I'm not very impressed. This is exactly why I want to get the Bravos XL fixed properly or more preferably replaced. I love its procedure for washing. I love the built in dispensers, because that drawer looks flimsy, in addition to it just dumping down straight onto the clothes. And I'm confused as to why there isn't much time spent on rotating the basket while recirculating the water. I like the way the Oasis machines handle that much better, with slow rotation and spray, then a quick spin to pull the water and detergent through, repeated several times over the course of 20+ minutes. I think that's why my machine cleans so well.

 

And the agitation sounds just like the agitator washer that I have. I guess because the gear box is nearly the same.


Post# 816907 , Reply# 88   4/1/2015 at 12:59 (3,283 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
"Doing a load on Bulky-Sheets/Normal"

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Post# 816940 , Reply# 89   4/1/2015 at 15:23 (3,283 days old) by extmaxspin (St Charles MI)        
videos in reply #86

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OK, I've never owned this style machine, and I've got to say I've never been impressed by the appearance of that style of operation. But after watching these videos, and understanding what I was supposed to be seeing (the "bloom" from the center), I'm mildly impressed...

My question is, why are all the videos I've seen of these machines in operation made with what I'd consider a small load at best? If I'm going to run a whites load that takes over two hours to finish, that machine is going to be full! I understand that when things are wet, they've settled and are packed on the bottom. I see that same thing in my FL machine too. But show me a load that starts with 15-20 bath towels, when they're dry, they fill the capacity of the machine. What's the turnover with that kind of load? Show me a load of towels like that "blooming" and I'll maybe consider one of these some day...


Post# 816945 , Reply# 90   4/1/2015 at 15:46 (3,283 days old) by Murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

murando531's profile picture
I agree completely. The same thing applies to the Oasis machines. Mine performs so much better when it's filled 3/4 of the way up to a full load to the top row of holes. The blooming rollover is much more fluid, and the water level is usually about halfway up the basket. I'm eager to see how these new machines will handle that kind of load.

Post# 817559 , Reply# 91   4/5/2015 at 08:29 (3,279 days old) by WP-Dude22 (Trinidad and Tobago )        

I agree with both of you who posted above me the wash action is better than i expected ... im shocked it bloomed so well but i would like to see it with a full load as well. i wait till i have a really large load to do laundry so that is what i would like to see a huge load.

i still find that washplate design anemic at best seems like it hardly has fins on it ...

i also prefer the Maytag / Kenmore variant with the dial.


Post# 817593 , Reply# 92   4/5/2015 at 13:33 (3,279 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
Small load on Mixed - not much turnover happening :-/

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Post# 817594 , Reply# 93   4/5/2015 at 13:36 (3,279 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
Jeans on Bulky

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And another small load that needs a lot of water to move around.






Post# 817598 , Reply# 94   4/5/2015 at 14:34 (3,279 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

murando531's profile picture

Just like the Oasis, and practically every HE top loader available, the biggest weakness in this machine seems to be movement when you have different fabric types and weights mixed together. 

 

There was a WP Rep at Lowe's the other day when I went to check out the other Bravos and compare it to the new Cabrios. I recognized her because she came in several times while I worked at HD, but when I got the chance to talk to her I quickly realized that her knowledge was based on scripts and product brochures, and she didn't actually know anything about how the machines worked.

 

When I got there she was showing one of the employees how she could stack cups on top, with a tennis ball balanced on the top cup, and put the machine into a spin and that there would be no vibration. While I was looking at the Cabrio Platinum (the Oasis version) she came over asking what draws me to that machine, so I explained what was going on with the Bravos and how I had the option of choosing a different washer. She proceeds to try and talk me into the new Cabrio 8500, and again starts a "spin" to show that there is no vibration. After about a minute of the tub turning at probably around 50 rpm, I look down and ask when it's actually going to spin, and she replies "but it's spinning now?" I wanted to walk away at that very moment. She then tries to argue with me that the new VMAX platform doesn't use a gearbox. *sigh* What amused me the most was how she told me that "it would have been doing me such a disservice if she had allowed me to purchase that older Cabrio".

 

Anyway, one of the things I asked her was if the new impeller design and agitation profiles were able to better handle mixed fabric weights than the Oasis platform, and she pointed smugly at the Mixed cycle. After seeing that video, it seems to have about the same movement that the Bravos does with mixed items.

 

To me, the new terminology for cycles and options translates to this: Mixed = Colors/Normal, Whites = Towels, and whites of course, Casuals = Perm. Press, and then Delicates and Bulky/Sheets as is, unless the new Bulky setting is designed for towels.

 

I love the look of these machines though. That capacitive touch panel is absolutely stunning. Not too crazy about the planetary gearbox or the new dispenser drawer though.


Post# 817620 , Reply# 95   4/5/2015 at 18:13 (3,279 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

I really can't imagine buying a machine like this one. It might end up cleaning ok, but it tangles and wears out the clothes doing it. A front loader uses the same amount of water, or less and does a much better job without causing wear or linting on the clothes. I have ALWAYS had top load washers up till now. But the new ones are just not the same. A top load washer will not wash as well as a front load one using the same amount of water without undue wear on the clothes.

Post# 817622 , Reply# 96   4/5/2015 at 18:25 (3,279 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
DeepWater wash

Now, whats really interesting to me is the design of the DeepWater option. He always talks about using the Oxi option to get more water, but as the DeepWater is an option to any Hows by now, my question is if it adapts the amount of water to the amount of clothing the way a washer with agitator would (so a half load only gets a half tub, a full load a full tub, just like with the Cabrios with agitator and Auto waterlevel), it adds just more water (like twice as much as the sensed size would give, no mater how big the load is) or if it just uses a full (or 3/4 full) tub by default with no adaptation. This of course may varry by cycle. It would be nice to know as well if the DeepWater adapts wash actions (longer or shorter arcs).
Maybe someone should point him towards this site ;)


Post# 817764 , Reply# 97   4/6/2015 at 14:00 (3,278 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

"Whites = towels and whites." I am not sure what the options are in the whites cycle but if you have dark green towels like I do this would not be the cycle I could use.

For those of you that have these type of washers I am curious. Why did you choose this type over a front loader? Why would you choose this type of washer over the TL speed queen?


Post# 817766 , Reply# 98   4/6/2015 at 14:17 (3,278 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Building Limitations

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There are some condominiums in South Florida that forbid front loaders as there is a perceived NOISE/VIBRATION factor during spinning. Utter nonsense unless you are in an older building that is more wood and concrete.

So, in that sense, a top loading HE machine is the only option, if you must have HE.

Malcolm


Post# 817768 , Reply# 99   4/6/2015 at 14:43 (3,278 days old) by Gusherb (Chicago/NWI)        

Our Samsungtag (even when it was brand new), a relatives 2009 LG and someone else's 2010 LG FL set I've used all shook the houses they were in on spin cycle.

Is that not a problem with front loaders anymore these days?


Post# 817779 , Reply# 100   4/6/2015 at 15:39 (3,278 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

murando531's profile picture

My only reservation with front-loading machines is that, from what I've seen in person and through several users' videos, it seems that larger loads of laundry seem to just roll in a ball back and forth. I've watched quite a few where the load was by no means oversized, but a few items just stayed in the middle of the "ball" the whole time. I'm also not crazy about how sealed the environment is. They have very high spin speeds, but usually the swirling vortex of air causes little pools of water to collect around the door seal and the window, and then at the very end when the machine tumbles and fluffs the load, that water just gets sponged back up by the clothes brushing against it. If I were to be given a nice FL or got an excellent deal on one, I would most certainly use and enjoy it, but I'd always have a TL as well. The FL would be excellent for comforters and items that just don't move around well in a TL machine.

 

I think the balling up of the load happens more in modern machines that only use enough water to get the load soggy but with not much water to slosh around. Sure, the intent behind these machines is not so much to cause the clothes to move around each other, but to allow the detergent to soak in, but I just prefer and feel more at ease seeing the clothes get agitated. With top-loading HE washers, as long as you follow the manufacturer's instructions and load the machine properly, there is usually no problem with rollover or "blooming" action. In addition to that the load's center of gravity stays close to the driveshaft, which keeps stress on the bearings to a minimum, in my opinion. There's also not really any place for the water to go but down, so any water "pooling" is mainly underneath the basket away from the clothes. In the end I think it all boils down to personal preference, and what pros and cons are more important to a person, because every machine ever made has had and will always have its strengths and its quirks.


Post# 817925 , Reply# 101   4/7/2015 at 11:49 (3,277 days old) by Murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        
New Maytag Bravos version live on website

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Tis a handsome machine. I miss the amber LED lights though. The impeller here does look a little beefier compared to the WP.

www.maytag.com/-[MVWB835DW]-11124...


Post# 817946 , Reply# 102   4/7/2015 at 14:17 (3,277 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
White Only?

mrb627's profile picture
Thought Maytag was the FLAGSHIP for Whirlpool. No colors available on this new model though...


Malcolm


Post# 817965 , Reply# 103   4/7/2015 at 16:49 (3,277 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

murando531's profile picture

WP seems to take their time keeping the sites up to date. Literally yesterday it showed the MVWB880 in the place that this new model has taken. I doubt this is the top-end model, and because there are only three HE top-loaders showing on the whole site, I'm sure the others will soon appear. 

 

I think when they're populating the Features panel under the models that they just hit check boxes on what to display, because the last item is "Extra-Large Capacity -- These 4.3 cu. ft. capacity washers handle your largest loads" when the machine is actually 5.3.


Post# 817999 , Reply# 104   4/7/2015 at 20:25 (3,277 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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I have washed loads so large that most here would probably have a heart attack... and items still moved all over during the wash. I did three loads today and paid extra attention to water pooling on the front gasket. After each cycle, there was a little less than a teaspoon of water on the gasket and even though I pulled towels right over it, none of the water was soaked up. Surprised myself.

As for the new top loaders, Whirlpool's internal product page shows three Maytag models that use the new design: 755, 835 and 855. All the old Bravos models without the dispenser drawer have gone, unfortunately. Also, only the TOL models seem to come in white or silver (and a red Whirlpool 8500).

This is Kenmore's impeller. It looks to be a third of the height of F&P's one.





Post# 818092 , Reply# 105   4/8/2015 at 14:00 (3,276 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        
The impeller

Looks great while swishing three thin polyester items to the sound of music.

Post# 818311 , Reply# 106   4/9/2015 at 18:11 (3,275 days old) by eronie (Flushing Michigan)        
????

There is no way ANY of these impeller machines will get 7 of my greasy farm jeans clean in any way shape or form NO WAY these things are just JUNK

Post# 818400 , Reply# 107   4/10/2015 at 07:09 (3,274 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

I guess the impellers are that shallow to allow for ultra-low water washing. The F&P design uses the floating basket if I'm not mistaken, which means overall higher water levels. And as the HE F&P allow for traditional washing, the impeller has a kind of hybrid design.
What puzzels me is the Steam Option. Its selectable at any temperature, and I never saw steam in any of the videos. So I guess its more like a temp boost.
But so far, it seems to me they do a pretty decent job at everyday laundry. The maker of the videos uploaded a video of a comforter which did not turn over at all (but it floated on top, so there was no way). He used the DeepWater option which gave me the impression of a dynamic water level sensing, even with that option.
The wash cycle programming seems half backed to me. There are parts that I really like about it. It does a stepped fill throughout the wash to dillute detergent and dirt stp by step which combines concentrated washing and pretty decent blooming action and to keep the temperature constant, it turns the recirculation on after every fill to mix the fresh water with the water in the drum. Further it balances fairly well and rinsimg seems sufficent to.
On the other hand, some things are just dumb programming. It does short agitation faces after the inital fill with nearly no water at all. That seems pretty rough on clothes. The agitation is pretty one-pattern-ish as well: it always does a fill, fast agitation which gradually reduces over time until the next fill. Further, it uses a simmilar pattern on any cycle he showed so far. The Bulky cycle used pretty much the same cycleing as Normal and Casual. Water levels seemd pretty constant as well.
So, I guess its just a average remodel of what seemd to work for long enough. I'm not dissapointed by it, just not blown of my chairr as well.


Post# 818484 , Reply# 108   4/10/2015 at 13:38 (3,274 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
Here are those comforter videos

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Part One - Pre-Washing a king size comforter on Bulky/Sheets - Deep Water.




 

Part Two - Pre-Washing a king size comforter, continued.




 

Part Three - flipped the comforter over to wash the other side




 

Part Four - end of wash and rinse





Post# 818491 , Reply# 109   4/10/2015 at 13:55 (3,274 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Danke! :)

Just to lazy to link them myself, and I knew Alex would help ;)
3 Things:
1. At some point he calls him self laundry enthusiast (I think he used these words), but isn't on this side. Maybe I should change that...
2. He calls him self laundry enthusiast, but did not have the freaking idea to push that comforter down into the water. That annoyed me like hell while I watched that video.
3. He called him self laundry enthusiast, but throws clothes and other items in and covers the impeller. Thats HE TL 1-O-1: Do not cover the wash plate!


Post# 818496 , Reply# 110   4/10/2015 at 14:21 (3,274 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Funny...

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I found a couple of the things in his videos get me to head scratching.

Why does he feel like he needs to do a manual prewash of clothes before starting the main cycle? I think he made mention of the machine needs to be 'tricked' once or twice. I suppose he thinks it isn't using enough water.

Why would you spend the money on a machine that requires so much user intervention?

Malcolm


Post# 818507 , Reply# 111   4/10/2015 at 15:09 (3,274 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
Prewash

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He mentioned watching a video of our very own Jamie, in which he explains that wetting clothes before the load sensing process can result in higher water levels during the wash. That's also why he adds the Oxi Dispense option to many cycles.

Henene - the steam option just turns the heater on to maintain and maybe boost the temp a little.


Post# 818601 , Reply# 112   4/10/2015 at 18:14 (3,274 days old) by gusherb (Chicago/NWI)        

That machine is driving me insane! 20 minutes just to fill and "sense", seriously?? My SQ is already finishing the rinse cycle by then.

With the way that machine was "washing" that comforter, one may as well have filled the bathtub with water, dropped it in and stirred it around with a paddle. At least then there would be some agitation.

I would laugh if the bottom of that comforter came out shredded in the end.


Post# 818603 , Reply# 113   4/10/2015 at 18:16 (3,274 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

I'd like to see a SQ handle that kind of comforter.

Post# 818604 , Reply# 114   4/10/2015 at 18:17 (3,274 days old) by gusherb (Chicago/NWI)        
Perhaps not a king size

But I have a full size comforter that looks much like the King Size in the guys video that I ran through the SQ last week and it handled it with ease, and no problem with turnover whatsoever.

Post# 818612 , Reply# 115   4/10/2015 at 18:24 (3,274 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

That comforter would probably never even fit in the SQ. It filled the 5.3 ft³ tub to about 3/4s. The SQ is 3.3 minus agitator. Even if it would have fitted, there wouldn't be to much rollover.

Post# 818627 , Reply# 116   4/10/2015 at 18:45 (3,274 days old) by Gusherb (Chicago/NWI)        

That comforter probably wouldn't do so well in many front loaders either. But that's not the point, this machine technically can fit it but the results are (obviously) terrible. Seems like false advertisement to me, to market such a big tub only to find out you can't fill it all the way and can only put certain things in it. A TL agitator machine, or FL can at least be filled up and you will still see results.

Post# 818677 , Reply# 117   4/11/2015 at 02:47 (3,274 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

While trying to watch the videos-machine is pretty lame-hardly any or no agitation at all--Just "Whir-Whirr"Fill,and so on-just a gentle rocking of the tub and no rollover whatsoever-You have to LIFT&TURN the Heavy,wet,comforter yourself to do the other side?--Might as well take the comforter to a laundry service and have them do it.Would be worth it.Won't be in the market for a Cabrio type machine.Just an agitator TL that fills with water and gets the job DONE-No manual "turning"!And yes,as another member pointed out-push the comforter into the water to squeeze out the air bubbles.But,again the machine should do that for you!!

Post# 818691 , Reply# 118   4/11/2015 at 05:03 (3,273 days old) by liberator1509 (Ireland)        
Missing an opportunity?

Interesting thread - I own a Fisher & Paykel 8kg Aquasmart II and think it excellent. Normal washing works very well - the laundry turns over and cleans, and a full capacity loads produces great results. Bulky items require a full-tub of water, giving lie to the HE bit, but then again the non-test cycles on FL washer aren't necessarily high efficiency!

I love the styling of the Maytag Bravos XL, and (as a European obsession) the option for a heater. I can't help thinking that both F&P and Maytag-Whirlpool have missed a beat in their programming of these machines. Most have re-circulating pumps (at least the F&P machines do), yet these seem only to function for part of the wash cycle, if at all.

I would suggest a system where the laundry items are just saturated, and then have a period where the machine ramps up to spin, wringing the water through the clothes, and then showered over by the recirculation, and repeat. Add in a profiled temperature rise from the heater, and I would think this an effective first phase for a wash (UK FL fans will recognise this as similar to the Zanussi Jet-system action). Then follow the F&P pattern by topping up with cool water for an agitation phase, but keep the recirculation going throughout the wash action. Adding a lint filter to the latter would be good too.

I suspect that F&P's 'vortex' FL wash works on this basis - I wonder if there is a reason why they don't make more of the recirculation potential in the TL machines?


Post# 818692 , Reply# 119   4/11/2015 at 05:05 (3,273 days old) by retro-man (- boston,ma)        

I wash King size comforters all the time in my Whirlpool Duet with no problems, have done them many times in the Maytag Neptune. I don't understand why gusherb makes that statement. I wash 2 king size pillows at a time in both machines, no problem either. As far as those videos, that convinced me not that I ever doubted that these washers are not for me. No thanks.

Jon


Post# 818702 , Reply# 120   4/11/2015 at 05:26 (3,273 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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Worst design of a modern machine I have seen in a long time. The worst frontloader will do better than this. That poor comforter!!

Post# 818703 , Reply# 121   4/11/2015 at 05:29 (3,273 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

I guess it failed the comforter test so far, but even that might end up different with a more known user.
But on other laundry, even some mixed loads, it did pretty decent to good. Lots of blooming, lots of soaking. And even appropiate water levels.
I have yet to seen a FL fail at washing anything. Yesterday, I washed 5 of those blankets you use in a car to protect your car and whatever you transport from scratches. They were medium sized and myade of thick felt. Squeezed them in the drum, after 2 hours they emerged clean and well rinsed.


Post# 819116 , Reply# 122   4/13/2015 at 16:26 (3,271 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        
Bulky Comparison

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Brief clip of my Neptune TL running some bedding on the Bulky Items cycle.  A moderate-weight, twin-size quilted cotton/synthetic bedspread, set of sheets (fitted, flat, three pillow cases), and a shirt.

Questionable as the Neppy TL may be, it does a better job than the Cabrio shown above which is expected considering the mechanics of the Cabrio's situation.

I've done a heavy quilted queen-size bedspread, a moderate-weight queen-size comforter (which suffered a spot of powder-detergent burn), a down-filled queen-size comforter for a friend, and a couple pillows.  The down comforter needed help to roll over but came out very nice, Brenda was happy.  The pillows didn't do so well, got rather-much twisted around.

Clip starts 75% to 80% into wash period (medium soil level).  This is the higher of two fill levels, which reaches to the hubs of the tumbler wheels.  The "normal" level is approx 1/2 as much water.  Bulky cycle uses the higher level for all fills, all other cycles use it only for the final rinse.

Note that the load gets "jammed" and doesn't roll over for several minutes until it shifts position enough for the tumblers to get a grip.  This is a common occurrence particularly with small loads and/or light-weight fabrics.  Some may remember I've mentioned a past load of 22 cotton and cotton/blend oxford-type shirts that *didn't* rollover even once through the entire wash period.  Mixing heavier-weight items with light-weight items helps promote rollover.

Drain sequence:  Stationary to the lower water level, then a slow balance-test spin and the pump turns on again when suitable balance is confirmed.  The pump cycles off/on throughout spin.






Post# 819185 , Reply# 123   4/14/2015 at 02:37 (3,271 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Looked at the video of the Neptune TL machine.This looks like a dough kneader machine I saw at a pizza place years ago.Looked like the agitator tumblers were "kneading" the load as though it was dough.But more action than the Cabrio.I would think the agitator wheels would be more effective if they turned the other way.Does this machine reverse at any time?The spiral center part of the agitator wheels could better grip and flip the load if the front part of the spiral hit them head on.

Post# 819204 , Reply# 124   4/14/2015 at 06:08 (3,270 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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It does not reverse-tumble ... except for a half-turn to center the load (from climbing up the basket wall) when shifting into spin.  Has a sort of torque-spring clutch that grabs the spin shaft when the motor reverses.  The spirals seem to function to move & toss the load laterally for varying the tumble pattern.


Post# 820847 , Reply# 125   4/24/2015 at 23:33 (3,260 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

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The more I see videos surface of this machine, the more it's growing on me. However, while it would have been cool to upgrade to one of the new designs and have something "state of the art", I'm always the type to wait until a few revisions have been made in case there are any kinks or annoyances with a new platform.

I do see these being pretty reliable. Having very similar build qualities from the VMW design, I could see these easily lasting a long time with common sense and proper care. The 4800 (VMW agitator) I have will probably outlive all my newer appliances honestly. Three years of decent workloads and it still looks and runs like it's brand new. I have NO plans to let it go anytime soon. I'm hoping to one day have a laundry room wide enough to have both the 4800 and the Bravos connected, so that I can use it for items that I'd rather not add more stress than I have to in the Bravos.

For some reason, the use of Downy Unstoppables and Gain Fireworks bugs me about those videos lol. I'd never use them in my laundry or my machine. Just an extra additive to try and rinse away. HOWEVER, I do have a bottle of the Gain Fireworks in the Moonlight Breeze scent, and they are PHENOMENAL for use in a vacuum cleaner. Unlike those horrid powders on the shelves that will ruin any bagless vacuums, these simply swirl around and make the exhaust air smell fantastic!!! I just sprinkle 10-15 pellets on the floor after I've emptied the vacuums and voila! Instant air freshener.



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