Thread Number: 57208  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Need help choosing a washer dryer
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Post# 795233   11/21/2014 at 09:36 (3,415 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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Hello everyone! Newbie on this site, having come from vacuumland!

Also, thanks unimatic1140 for activating me after the hitch up :3

I am in the market for a washer dryer. Now I don't know yours opinions on washer dryers, but I currently have a Hotpoint Aquiltis XXXL or whatever its called, which I got in 2006 and in fairness has given me complete trouble free service.

Well I say that, around 2 years ago, the control panel started acting funny, where it wouldn't register button presses, and the panel wouldn't light up. Also, a more serious problem, is it has started rusting, badly. It is a poor design on hotpoints part. I will try and post a picture shortly which shall point out what I mean. It has never actually let me down, however.

Any of you familiar with these machine, the detergent draw it hidden inside the door, but the draw hole is surrounded in a metal frame. I thought this was normal until I went to Currys yesterday and found most machine these days, they have like a plastic surround. Obviously the front of the machine around the door and lower is metal, but the detergent draw is vulnerable to rust as moister build up there. Anyways, it is rusting badly, so it is time for a new machine.

I have a BEKO condenser dryer which I have had for about 6 years which is OKAY, although it is now making an awful racket and has got really noisy. I preferably want a combo machine.

I have been eying up Bosch machines. My mother has a 12 year old Bosch which has been as solid as a rock. Nothing has broken off it, think she had the bearings and belt replaced about 4 years ago, but that's it. She religiously maintains it, running it on a hot 90 degrees wash with Dr. Beckmann Service-it. I have heard other similar stories of Bosch domestic appliances giving solid year on year performance. I have a Bosch fridge freezer I have had for 10 years and it has been fine.

I don't know how long white appliances last for these days. I hear that if a washing machine lasts 10 years, you are doing very well.

I spoke to a guy at Euronics and he also recommends Bosch. He said they are essentially the VW of appliances. Above average quality with an above average price tag, although when I was looking in currys yesterday, the prices of the Bosch appliances was much more similar to the likes of Samsung and Hotpoint than I thought.

Speaking of which, I spent a time prodding and poking the fridge freezers and washing machines because I appreciate well made things. I found hotpoint and indiset stuff to be quite good, and LG make some lovely washing machines. I was very disappointed with Samsung however. Their washing machines aren't so bad but their fridge freezers are quite poor. None of the doors aligned properly. On the American styled ones, one door was lower than the other. I doubt that is a design feature, because they had other Samsung models, and each one had a different door dropped. The LG ones were perfect though. LG make more of their machines and fridges in Korea as well, where as I looked at a £1400 Samsung American styled fridge freezer and it was made in China!

All the Bosch appliances however look just as well made as my German built fridge freezer, even though the new ones are made in Turkey.

I want a washer dryer with an inverter motor. Bosch do one which I have posted a link to. It looks very nice and has some good features like optiflow this and eco that. Acronyms which hopefully save time and money and keep my clothes clean!

There is also an LG washer dryer that has taken my interest.

Keep in mind that the LG is less than half the cost of the bosch and come with a much longer warrantee. Can the Bosch really be worth that much more?

The LG's seem beautifully built and designed. Long term reliability and durability I do not know, but I have not heard of any horror stories or major complaints, not at least in Europe. I know in North America, LG and Samsung top loaders were exploding! Hope that doesn't happen. The 10 year guarantee on the motors and 5 year for parts and labour on the LG machines looks impressive, as I believe all their motors are direct drive brushless jobs.

The link to the LG - www.lg.com/uk/washer-dryers/lg-F1...

I hear inverter motors are superior in terms of durability and energy efficiency.

Anyways, would just like some thoughts and opinions if possible.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO oliveoiltinfoil's LINK





Post# 795235 , Reply# 1   11/21/2014 at 09:58 (3,415 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)        

That comes out to 2.4 cubic feet (US). LG also makes a 76 litre model that's the same size, I think. There is/was a 102 litre model thats been superceded by a 122 lire one. All use water for the condensing dryer. I've never heard of AirCondensation dryers here at all and wonder if our (US) 1500 watt limit is a factor. Might these also be options for you?

I too am interested in the comments as I'll likely be limited to washer/dryer combos when my building revises (process supposedly underway) its current no-washer policy.

Jim


Post# 795237 , Reply# 2   11/21/2014 at 10:12 (3,415 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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To be honest I don't really care how it dries the clothes or whatever, so long as it dries them haha! I also don't need a large capacity one as there is only two of us in the house, with weekend exceptions when there can be up to 5.

At the moment, I am leaning towards the LG.


Post# 795238 , Reply# 3   11/21/2014 at 10:20 (3,415 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        
re: Bosch

Bosch has a major foothold in the US dishwasher market. THey've built a plant in the USA, parts availability (sometimes an issue with imports) is excellent, they are sold by major "big box" stores here, and some buyers are likely not aware they are a German brand. Originally, people thought of them like Miele, i.e. the $1400+ brand, but they strategically prices their products to match KitchenAid's line, which is considered "affordable luxury" here. My current Bosch DW, purchased in 2001, cost $600 and has never had a service call or issue. It has door-edge controls, which commands a premium price, but the feature set is entry level and a similar model with door-panel controls could have been had for $500.

With respect to washers, they closed down their US-sized washer line (27" wide, 36-38" high machines) which from what I heard were full of defects. FYI Miele did the same thing, they used to make US-sized machines but retreated from the market and now sell only Euro-size washers. Bosch still sells Euro-sized (24" footprint; fit under kitchen counters, which US machines do not) washers which receivef good to excellent ratings.

Last year stayed in an apartment-hotel in Berlin which included a full kitchen and washer-dryer stacked in the bathroom. Machines were Bosch and gave excellent service. Dryer of course was electric condenser (I am used to gas/vented dryers) which took longer to dry than what we have back home. There was no manual in the apartment to explain the cycles, there may have been a Perm Press dry cycle that I needed to wash/dry my tourist clothes (khakis/dress shirts with button down collars---I may look middle aged but I do NOT dress like a typical American tourist) but the cycle I chose evidently was not perm press, so I had to iron some of the clothes. Most likely there was such a cycle but without the manual I could not find the proper cycle using pictograms (I am fluent in German but the buttons were labelled with symbols, not German text).

Based on that one-week experience, I'd recommend Bosch. Bear in mind that the suite is used every week by guests who likely run quite a few loads, and the hotel was about two years old. So far the machines appeared to be holding up rather well.


Post# 795240 , Reply# 4   11/21/2014 at 10:35 (3,415 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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Yepp. I am aware of Bosch appliances and appreciate they are good quality. To be honest, I thought the LG machines looked better built, at least the perceived quality was just as good, if not better.

I am half German and travel to Germany a lot, and a lot of the appliances in hotels and places such as are Siemens, Bosch and Miele.

If someone can convince me the Bosch is worth twice the money of the LG, then I shall go for the Bosch.


Post# 795245 , Reply# 5   11/21/2014 at 11:24 (3,415 days old) by dascot (Scotland)        

Be aware that not all LG machines have the 5 year P&L warranty. Cheaper ones may not do, or if they do it may be a warranty from the retailer rather than LG.

Have you considered AEG (or John Lewis branded machines that are effectively AEG anyway)? I would suggest that they may be equally as good, if not better, than either of the above choices.

If you are interested in the opinion of Which? then they rank the following as Best Buy freestanding washer-dryers
Miele WT2780
John Lewis JLWD1612
AEG 87695
AEG 99695
AEG 75480

They rank several recent Hotpoint, Indesit, Servis and Candy machines as "don't buy"

Others, including LG, are in the middle.


Post# 795247 , Reply# 6   11/21/2014 at 11:49 (3,415 days old) by electradeluxe (Blackpool, Lancs)        

I've bought my own machine this year,a Bosch VarioPerfect and returned the haier washer dryer back to the landlord as it was absolute garbage,all my darks were coming out covered in white towel lint,and poured water out of the drawer whenever it felt like it!
I'm not a fan of washer dryers

Neil


Post# 795254 , Reply# 7   11/21/2014 at 12:44 (3,415 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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To be honest, and I am going to sound ignorant here, I do not entirely trust Which. They do not measure or comment on build quality. They give stats about reliability however. I go on a variety of website, review critics and owners reviews and than make an independent decision based on these things, not just what one company says. I can't see how a Bosch straight suction vacuum got a which best buy with not brushbar for agitation, and I have purchased things based on which best buys and found them not to be that good.

Haven't really considered AEG. Of course they are Electrolux. They used to be good, don't know what they are like now.

A lot of people say good things about the LG's and Bosch. The one I am looking at does have the 5 year warranty, and a 10 year motor warranty is good peace of mind. Like I said, the build quality seemed excellent on the LG with the biggest and more stable door hinges I have ever seen on a washing machine.

Don't really want anything from the Indesit or Candy group as upon looking at a few of their machines, they seem relatively average in terms of energy efficiency and performance.


Post# 795258 , Reply# 8   11/21/2014 at 13:27 (3,415 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
AEG Heatpump washer-dryer

AEG offers a heat-pump washer dryer here in Germany. It is an actual heat pump that is used for condensing and heating. Has a seperate fluff filter as well. Sounds interesting now after we own a heat pump dryer now and now its advantages.
The thing about BSH washer-dryers is the incredible high drying temperature. Normal temp is 85°C, low temp 75°C round about. To compare, the BSH stand alone condensor dryer heats to 75°C on normal, 65°C on low heat. Our Whirlpool build heatpump dryer runs at 65° normal, about 55-60° low temp.


Post# 795262 , Reply# 9   11/21/2014 at 14:17 (3,415 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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I wasn't impressed with AEG to be honest. Build quality was average. Considering the Bosch and LG's were the same price but were better made, I would opt for them based on that.

Hotpoint, Indesit, AEG, Hoover and BEKO seem around the same in terms of build quality - quite poor. I am very particular. I didn't even think the Mieles were much to write home about, although the longevity of them may be very different.

Things like the button, dials, detergent draws, the solidity of the panels and how solid the door is on the machines is what I look for.

A friend of mine has his own repair service for machines. He said as soon as the Italians took over Hotpoint, the quality dropped a lot.

Bosch are also not what they used to be according to him, but I can easily see why. So many manufacturers are adoption policies of pile it high sell it cheap, through away items and outsourcing more of their manufacturing.

I am looking at EBAC at the moment. British made washing machines with 10 year guarantees, interior lights, touchscreen control panels and inverter motors all make this company seem attractive.

The head of the company also says she wants to produce quality. They are manufacturing their owns motors, pressing their metal, injection moulding their plastics as well. She says that her rivals (hotpoinn, hoover etc) it has cost them money making their machines cheaper and less durable. Making them tough and good quality will save her money, which is common sense for the rest of us, and means the end user will appreciate the product and have trust in the company. She certainly knows what she is on about.

Some of you may be aware of EBAC, but I have posted a link to the website. They even give tips on how to look after and prolong the life of your washing machine.

I reckon I'll go for the LG, until someone convinces me the Bosch is better.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO oliveoiltinfoil's LINK


Post# 795268 , Reply# 10   11/21/2014 at 15:09 (3,415 days old) by BoschExxcel ()        

If you have room for a dryer, just get two machines. They work better, you will be able to have them on at the same time and are similar money once you price up a mid spec washer/dryer.

We had a Caple washer dryer in our new house when we moved in 2 years ago. We lasted a week without a dryer and ordered a Bosch Condenser one which is in the cupboard in my room! The Caple was rubbish at washing and drying, it took ages to dry anything at all and would steam up the kitchen.

Finally got rid of it in Augsut and now have a Whirlpool! Thank god, I love having a normal washing machine.

Oh and I've had excellent experiences with Bosch too, all our appliances are Bosch except the washing machine and they've all been fault free for the past 2 years. We left all our old Bosch appliances (except the dryer which was Whirlpool) at my old house, and they're all working fine now. The 9 year old washer had only had a minor leak that was easily fixed. The dishwasher is 12 years old and still going strong!

Personally I'd get a Bosch washing machine and a cheaper dryer, like a Hotpoint or Whirlpool.


Post# 795292 , Reply# 11   11/21/2014 at 17:18 (3,415 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

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The Bosch washer dryer you are considering to buy features an air condensing technology as opposed to the usual water condensing.

I don`t know how reliable this system will be in a combo, but I can tell you from experience that water condensing means lots of trouble if you live in a hard water area.
Lint and limescale build up and block the condenser channel. The air condensing thing could be an advantage even if your water isn`t metered.


Post# 795296 , Reply# 12   11/21/2014 at 17:32 (3,415 days old) by dascot (Scotland)        

I would say build quality varies even amongst brands. Bosch higher end machines feel more solid than the lower end ones. Interesting that your friend says Hotpoint quality has decreased since the Italians took over - I've seen several surveys (Which and others) showing that reliability has improved over the past 10 years. The newer machines mostly feel better built too.

Of those two machines you're looking at - I've seen reports of the Bosch (& Siemens equivalents) machines being better at not over-drying than the LGs (and many others).

In terms of reliability - a washer dryer will inherently be less reliable than separates, because of added complexity of two machines in one. I agree that if you have the space, having two machines is better. I wouldn't suggest buying a Hotpoint condenser dryer though, they are not very good machines.

From Which's current reliability table for washer dryers:
Brand Score
Miele 88%
Indesit 78%
Bosch 77%
John Lewis 77%
AEG / AEG Electrolux 76%
Zanussi /Zanussi Electrolux 76%
Hotpoint 73%

Sample sizes: Miele 79, Indesit 65, Bosch 118, John Lewis 51, AEG / AEG Electrolux 211, Zanussi / Zanussi Electrolux 110 Hotpoint 99



Post# 795297 , Reply# 13   11/21/2014 at 17:33 (3,415 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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**Would like to apologise for the grammar mistakes in my last post. Damn autocorrect !**

Danke for the advice mrboilwash! I've been to Munich. It was very green and German. I went to France once but found it far too French.

I get the feeling a lot of the terminology manufacturers use (words we cant understand) are done for the sake of it, to outdo the competition. In reality, does it really make that much difference? I imagine a company like Bosch would be legit in their new inventions such as air condensing technology, but Samsung foam creating pump thing is surely just a gimmick.


Post# 795299 , Reply# 14   11/21/2014 at 17:39 (3,415 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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Thank you for the information dascot. That is interesting seeing Indesit being more reliable than hotpoint. I imagine they both use the same components, or are the hotpoints built to a cheaper cost?

So bosch are slightly above average in reliability it seems. Not surprising to be honest. However one thing that I keep thinking to myself is the LG is half the price of the Bosch and has a much longer warranty. Hmm.


Post# 795302 , Reply# 15   11/21/2014 at 18:14 (3,415 days old) by dascot (Scotland)        

I could be wrong, but as this will have gone back a number of years I'd expect a number of the Indesit machines to have been more basic and less feature filled than some of the Hotpoints included in those surveys. It is rather difficult to tell, though, without knowing the exact models included. You also have to take sample sizes into account.

Post# 795569 , Reply# 16   11/23/2014 at 05:06 (3,413 days old) by AquaCycle (West Yorkshire, UK)        

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Just bear in mind Oli that the longer warranty on the LG covers the motor only. The most common failure of LG machines is the PCB.

LG certainly look impressive with flashy bells and whistles, but at the end of the day, its a washing machine. It needs to be reliable and wash well. A lot of machines these days have a pretty poor wash action, especially Hotpoint/Indesit. They tumble far too slowly on the cottons cycles. So it's not just reliability you want to be looking at, it's performance too.

Bosch have a much stronger reputation for performance than LG, so you'd likely end up with a much higher performing machine overall with the Bosch.

Personally, I wouldn't have a washer dryer. I'd always have separates. Not least of which because it takes twice as long to do your laundry - you obviously can't get one load out of the washer, into the dryer and the next load in the washer. But if you're dead set on a WD, Bosch, Miele, AEG or John Lewis branded machines are definitely your best bet. Just be careful with drying clothes in it, they get very hot and have a habit of shrinking things.


Post# 795570 , Reply# 17   11/23/2014 at 05:47 (3,413 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
AEG Quality

To be honest, AEGs quality is by far not what it used to be when it actually was AEG. The thing about AEG what makes it such a good choice of washer dryers is the balance between features.
They have a well sized drum with 66l (so, you can dry about 3,5kg of laundry without to much creasing). BSH has 57l, LG has about the same as AEG. Drum volume is really important in terms of drying as overfilling during drying causes lots of creases to form.
AEGs wash and rinse verry well with the recirculation they have. A thing that Bosch has not.
And, not knowing what you want to invest, AEG is the first to offer true heatpump drying technology in a washer dryer in the EU. This reduces the water usage during drying to 0, halfs the energy usage during drying, reduces the fluff-buildup (it has an actual fluff filter pretty simmilar to a normal dryer) and keeps drying temperatures and thus shrinkage low. And drying times are only slightly longer (the manuals state 4 hours for 7kg in the TOL non-heatpump AEG washer-dryer, and the same time for 6kg in the heat-pump models).
In terms of quality, I guess they are about as good as Bosch. We own a MOL-BOL AEG washer with a normal motor (with brushes) and 1600rpm and build quality lives up to its price. The suspension handels out-of-balance situations quite well, the door feels solid and the buttons and dials are just as good as any of todays physical buttons (aka not touch sensitive). And washtimes are ok as you got 2 steps of cycle shortening and the OptiSense regularly cuts down wash time (though it takes about 15-20 minutes for load sensing).
Here in Germany, they retail for 1000€, or about 800£ about 2 months after they started selling them. For the UK, I only found one online for 1200£. So they are quite expensive still.


Post# 795585 , Reply# 18   11/23/2014 at 09:42 (3,413 days old) by nickuk (chelmsford UK)        

OP, I didn't like my 8kg LG washer dryer which I bought in 2007 to the extent that I sold it on ebay a year or so later and replaced it with a basic Bosch washing machine and dryer.

The LG was a crude, noisy machine. Yes, the motor was quietish but the hissy filling and noisy draining / recirculation pump (which went off and on at intervals, to add to the noise disturbance) made such a racket the machine overall was noisy. Far noisier than the Bosch. The LG did not heat to the correct temperatures and I just didn't like the cycles. It seemed they were either too short or too long. Balancing was an absolute nightmare even on basic loads, and often this lead to the cycles doubling in time. To top it off, there some sort of mechanism on top of the fab con bit which stopped the entire drawer from pulling out which broke within months. If you remembered, great! On a bad day, Ariel and Comfort all over your feet :-(

It could be that I had a Friday one, or that LG have improved since then. However, I would never have another one and have stuck with Bosch since then. We sold the machine still good as new about five years later when we changed the kitchen, and now have integrated Siemens which I'm also happy with.

I would second what others are saying though - I really would avoid washer dryers and have separates, I think it would be a step down for you to do this, though I'm sure you know what you're doing.


Post# 795638 , Reply# 19   11/23/2014 at 15:58 (3,413 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)        

In the EU one has a lot of choices and many factors to consider. Don't get me wrong; this is a good thing.

However, those of us in the US are stuck with what can be done with 120 volts :-(
This means that too high a temperature is never a worry. We just have to contend with longer water heating times (if needed) and much longer drying times. We also have a smaller number of models available.

If one lives in an older building, bringing in 240v is not an option. Neither is venting nor running a gas line. I'm only aware of one ventless 120v condensing dryer, a smallish Equator, so even if one has space for 2 machines a dedicated washer is not really an option. One is sort of stuck with a washer/dryer combo, the Equator if room permits, and a heated drying rack.

I'm a bit jealous of the options you all have ;-)

Jim


Post# 795675 , Reply# 20   11/23/2014 at 19:07 (3,413 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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Hmm, lots to think about. Thank you everyone so far sharing your opinion and experience.

Without sounding stereotypical, (but is largely true) Korean firms and products tend to be style over substance. That's what worries me about the lG. The build quality seems very nice, but how long will that chrome stay on the knob, how long will the rubber seals last, the door on the LG was very light as well. Hmm, I really don't know.

I find myself again going towards the Bosch, which I initially intended on getting. It is relatively pricey at £1,400, but I have seen them on several other sites such as appliance city for £800. In fact I phone up ao.com and asked about price matching theirs and they said "because they don't offer next day delivery service, we cant math them". Whatever the hell that has to do with things, I don't know, but I would wait one week as opposed to one day if It meant I was saving over £600 !!

She said things like "oh it could be graded" but as it turns out the retailers which have the bosch much cheaper than ao.com get their direct from bosch, which is why you have to wait a few days. What do you guys think of this? I bought my bosch dishwasher from an obscure website I had never heard of, which was a couple of hundred pounds cheaper than currys at the time and had no problems with service or anything.

I have a feeling the Bosch will age better in terms of appearance. I prefer the more Teutonic, simple design.

Does anyone know where the Bosch washing machines /washer dryers are made? I have a feeling it is turkey, but I found on another forum that in Australia, they Bosch washer dryers are made in China, with stickers on the front of the machines saying "German engineered".


Post# 795740 , Reply# 21   11/24/2014 at 04:28 (3,412 days old) by AquaCycle (West Yorkshire, UK)        

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Being honest, if you're willing to spend that amount of money, you'd be best off getting a Miele and knowing you're getting a reliable, high performing all rounder. I certainly wouldn't be without mine.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO AquaCycle's LINK


Post# 795742 , Reply# 22   11/24/2014 at 04:56 (3,412 days old) by BoschExxcel ()        

Not sure about washers dryers, but IIRC really cheap washers are built in China, but we don't really get them here, mid range are built in Poland, and top of the range Logixx etc are built in Germany. Either way a machine built in Poland wouldn't phase me.

Post# 795745 , Reply# 23   11/24/2014 at 05:12 (3,412 days old) by dascot (Scotland)        

As far as I know, the air cooled washer-dryers are built in China, though that could've been initial run only and they've changed it. Either way, where it is built shouldn't make a difference as it should still be to the Bosch standards. All companies are building things in different places to save money (yes, Miele included) but the quality is to do with sourcing components and what standards they have set rather than the country of build.

Post# 795755 , Reply# 24   11/24/2014 at 07:11 (3,412 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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I trust Bosch enough to produce a quality built, durable appliance, wherever they are made. It's just if you are paying a grand and a half on one of their appliances, it would be nice to have it made in the country of origin. I know my fridge freezer which is bosch has been solid throughout its 12 year life - it is made in Germany. The new Bosch fridge freezers are built in Turkey and there seems to be no variation in quality.

If people are saying the Bosch will perform better than the LG, I will obviously go for the Bosch. Yes, the 10 year guarantee for the motor is attractive, but considering there are many other parts and components in washer dryers that can and do go wrong, I don't suppose it looks as good. Both the LG and Bosch have two year warranty's, which mean absolutely nothing as thanks to the sale of goods act '79, all appliances including washing machines and TV's should last a minimum of 6 years, and more companies and especially retailers are actually begrudging it less. They cant say or do anything to not merit this - it's the law.



Post# 795772 , Reply# 25   11/24/2014 at 09:43 (3,412 days old) by dascot (Scotland)        

It's not strictly true that they say they should last a minimum of 6 years, however I suspect that you could easily argue that for an appliance costing the amount that the Bosch does.

Have you looked at the Siemens equivalent of the Bosch? It may have an offer on with extended warranty for free, as Siemens seem to do that more often than Bosch do.


Post# 796703 , Reply# 26   11/30/2014 at 17:32 (3,406 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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It's settled.

I have ordered the Bosch washer/dryer. Spoken to a few people about which one would be best and nearly all of them said Bosch.

I have a few Bosch home appliances including a kettle and toaster, as well as a fridge freezer, the FF being 12 years old. All I can say is based on my experience, their products are high quality and they do the job properly.

I shall post a thread once I have received it in 10 days. The wait is due to re-stocking.


Post# 796799 , Reply# 27   12/1/2014 at 10:27 (3,405 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        

Good luck. The Euro-sized Bosch washers here receive good reviews, though stateside their applications seem to be rather limited: one sees in-kitchen, under-counter installations as in Europe, but it's uncommon because most post-WW2 housing was built with laundry machine areas/room. There are also people who convert a closet next to a kitchen to stacked laundry closet use, though people with money to do this usually go with Miele.

New construction normally builds laundry areas on a 27" footprint (rather than 24" as for Euro-sized machines), otherwise the owners would be locked into Miele or Bosch but not much else. Some apartments and condominiums have closet laundry areas. As the depth of US sized machines continues to swell (only 27" wide but 31+" deep), they will be less useful for those with laundry closets because of clearance plus the need to keep the washer door ajar when not in use, which may raise the demand for Bosch as a reasonably priced alternative to Miele. The main issue if I were to buy a Bosch washer would be availability of parts and service. For dishwashers, Bosch supply/service chain is excellent, but I don't know if that includes the washers. Bosch dishwashers are a mainstream, almost domestic brand here, whereas the washing machines are considered an exotic foreign import.


Post# 796844 , Reply# 28   12/1/2014 at 17:17 (3,405 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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Very interesting. Thank you passatdoc.

Well, there is only two of us in this household, so I hope the Bosch washer/dryer is able to cope with our laundry loads. My next purchase will be a Bosch fridge freezer, as the one we have is approaching 12 years old, and although it has never let us down, a couple of bits of trim are starting to fall off, such as the handle which has a rather silly cheap design, and a couple of the draws in the fridge and freezer are cracked. Looking at getting a frost-free FF this time round.

With these two new appliances, I shall nearly have a complete Bosch kitchen ahah! A slim line dishwasher or something along those lines and a bosch microwave will finish it all off, as I don't have a dish washer and the microwave we have is very poor, only 700 watts, but we hardly use it. I have only had this house for just over a year now, and all the kitchen appliances my parents gave me as their hand me downs, purely as stop gaps. They now have bosch appliances as well, only they have a separate washer and dryer and they love them.

May I ask the background to your user name, passatdoc? Anything to do with the car??


Post# 796903 , Reply# 29   12/2/2014 at 00:30 (3,404 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        

I am a physician and I drive a VW Passat. Actually, I've owned two Passats in a row. The first one 1998-2014, with a 1.8T gas/petrol engine; the only two engine options in USA in 1998 on a Passat were the 1.8T or a 2.8 V6 (latter rather mediocre). The current model with effect from May 2014 is a 2.0 TDI diesel, the current engine options being 2.0T gas/petrol (base engine; derived from the trusted 1.8T), the 2.0 TDI diesel, or a 3.6 V8 gas/petrol motor.

I was at one time Vice President of a car club for Passat and Audi A4 owners. My web handle sounds as if I might be a mechanic specialising in VWs, but such is not the case.

I have relatives in London who drive a new Jetta estate 1.6 TDI diesel (this engine not available in North America). Right hand drive, of course.

Bosch dishwashers are wonderful no matter the country. I have friends in Stockholm, Sweden on their fourth Bosch. I'm only on my first, but it was purchased October 2001 and has NEVER had a service call.


Post# 796914 , Reply# 30   12/2/2014 at 02:39 (3,404 days old) by BoschExxcel ()        

Jetta estate? We don't have those here, I think you meant a Golf estate. :)

Post# 796915 , Reply# 31   12/2/2014 at 02:43 (3,404 days old) by BoschExxcel ()        

Our old Bosch Dishwasher, which is still going strong, is 13 years old. Never had a problem! The rest of the appliances are Bosch, exept the dryer which is Whirlpool and they are all 9 years old and have done great service.

New house has everything Bosch except the washer which is a Whirlpool. The Boschs are 2 years old, and again fault free.

My dads houses both have Bosch appliances, which one of them just having a new Bosch Classixx washer and dryer. I think you may of realised my family likes Bosch!


Post# 796968 , Reply# 32   12/2/2014 at 10:19 (3,404 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        
re: Passats and stuff

Ooops my bad, must have been a Golf estate. "Golf" here applies only to the smaller hatchback models, though I believe Golf and Jetta share the same platform. The term Jetta here applies to both sedan/saloon and wagon/estate models. They sent me the link to their model and it was clearly what we know as the Jetta wagon/estate (sold here as the Jetta Sportwagen.....Sport-estate just doesn't have the same ring!....and the "wagen" spelling is deliberately German).

The US Sportwagens are running one year behind Europe, in that their 2014 design is not yet available in the USA. We've been told that the 2014 European model will eventually arrive here as the 2015 model, but thus far the VW dealers here have the older 2014 US design.

FYI VW built a factory in Tennessee to build Passats, and from 2012 the US Passat is a different design than what is sold in Europe. Two different animals now. Beyond North America, I"ve heard there are limited exports to Korea or elsewhere in Europe, but that the Tennessee-built Passat is chiefly intended for the North American market.

www.vw.com... As has been the case for years, the US is always offered fewer options than in Europe. Typically only one to three engine options exist for a given model, vs. more choices in Europe. In addition, options are typically bundled into a single trim level rather than being offered as stand-alone options.

In my case, the diesel Passat is offered in either SE (mid-range) or SEL (high end) trim levels. There is a more economical S (basic) trim level, but the diesel engine is considered a "premium engine" and diesels are offered only in SE and SEL versions.

I have a mild orthopaedic impairment and needed the power memory seats to aid in getting in/out of the car (can't bend right knee fully so need seat all the way back to enter/exit). The memory feature was not available as a stand-alone option and is available only with the SEL trim level. Don't get me wrong, the Navigation and 400W Fender stereo and leather seats are nice, but I'd rather have saved $2500 and get the SE trim (fake leather ok for me) and just buy the memory seat option by itself, but not possible. Also, SEL is not available in manual transmission, so after 40+ years of driving only manuals, I was forced into automatic mode.


Post# 796993 , Reply# 33   12/2/2014 at 13:16 (3,404 days old) by BoschExxcel ()        

Golf here is the usual hatchback, same size as the Focus, and well, the Golf lol. Exept here we can get estates of both cars which you can't in the US. Apparently the car market there is very different to here!

Post# 797018 , Reply# 34   12/2/2014 at 18:24 (3,404 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
I thought so. Very interesting man. My late father predominantly drove Volkswagen group cars, 18 Audis and 11 Volkswagens during his 50 years in the auto industry and he found them to be the finest built cars on the road, and they still are to this day. I drive an Audi A3 2.0 TDI. Bought it at 4,000 miles. It has now done 110,000 and I have had nothing go wrong with it at all. Of course some will say VW's are POS and are un-reliable, I find this not to be the case, but on the contrary. Over in the UK and possibly Europe, Japanese cars (which have a reputation for reliability a most of us know) are actually quite expensive for what they are and not cheap at all when things do go wrong, which they can and do. TDI diesels are fantastic. One of the best was the old 1.9 PD. They were bomb proof, although my cousin has a Golf 2.0 common rail 06 plate which has now just turned over to 190,000 and doesn't even use a drop of oil. Incredible cars really.

My bather had a B5 Passat, 1.8 20v non-turbo model. had that for 8 years and clocked up over 150,000 and was running as sweet as nut even when he got rid of it.

Partially the reason why I am buying Bosch. There are exceptions, but on the whole, German quality is unbeatable, although home built domestic appliances made in Britain and the US are also very good, but much harder to get hold of.


Post# 797025 , Reply# 35   12/2/2014 at 19:05 (3,404 days old) by iej (.... )        

I think the most important thing with a washer-dryer is the drum size : get the biggest you can if you intend to use it to dry regularly.

I've used low-end washer-dryers in rental places when I was a student and they're invariably utterly useless and I ended up just doing my laundry in a laundrette or drying on airers (which technically wasn't allowed in the building).

In one place, I actually gave up and bought an Electrolux condenser dryer and just kept it in the corner of a room. It made a huge difference as I could actually get towels dry in reasonable time and my clothes weren't being destroyed by high temperatures and coming out smelling like detergent and rubber!

If you have the space for a washer-dryer stack, consider that option instead.


Post# 797100 , Reply# 36   12/3/2014 at 05:05 (3,403 days old) by BoschExxcel ()        

We had two Audis which were both rubbish. Both 2008, one was an A3 and one an A4 both 2.0TDI and they both spent most of their time in the garage! Got rid of them about a year later and now have a Range Rover and a Peugeot. Strangely enough they have been fault free!

I agree with Bosch though, they are excellent quality products and most are the price of a Miele, can't reeally go wrong!


Post# 797136 , Reply# 37   12/3/2014 at 10:17 (3,403 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        

The only person I know who ever regretted a Bosch purchase is a secondary school friend who gutted and renovated the kitchen when they moved into a 1970s-era house in 2004. The Bosch dishwasher they bought then still works great. However, she also selected a Bosch double wall oven (built in) which has been nothing but trouble. The oven cuts out, makes too much noise, doesn't heat as it's supposed to, etc. It was replaced once by Bosch and the replacement doesn't work properly either. She chose the oven based on design and features, probably assuming that a company that makes such wonderful dishwashers and laundry machines can't make a bad oven. One other thing: while Bosch dishwashers were recommended to her by a number of friends (myself included) who owned them, she didn't know anyone personally with Bosch oven experience, so in a sense she was going it alone in terms of advice (or lack thereof).

My 1998 Passat was amazing. Never broke down or stopped working. Went 178K miles with original power train including clutch. I replaced it when interior pieces began breaking/nonoperating and parts became hard to find. Maintenance costs climbed to 3-4K/year dollars, which in my mind was throwing good money after bad.


Post# 818387 , Reply# 38   4/10/2015 at 05:37 (3,275 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        
Back after a few months...

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
So it has been a few months since I posted this. I couldn't make my mind up, only I am investing quite a bit of money, I want to make the right decision as you can imagine.

I don't think I will go for the LG. Too concerned about their safety and reliability, after hearing about exploding machines and from a technician who came out to service our stove the other week, saying that LG are not as durable or as reliable as European brands. He said they have weak seals and fragile water pumps. That 10 year motor warranty is of course only for the motor and Bosch do the same for their brushless motor models. Apparently LG's are quite expensive and difficult to repair, so I will steer clear of them.

I would have gone for the Bosch but they have had stock issues all this time but they are back in stock.

Only reason I haven't gone for it yet is because I searched for AEG and noticed they do quite an attractive model (linked below).

It has a larger drum capacity (8KG), brushless motor of course but according to the comparison statistics, is more energy efficient than the Bosch by around £30 per year, but more important has A ratings for wash and spin performance, versus the Bosch's B performance for spinning. The AEG is rated at 1600 rpm.

Would the AEG be a better choice then ?


CLICK HERE TO GO TO oliveoiltinfoil's LINK


Post# 818391 , Reply# 39   4/10/2015 at 06:24 (3,275 days old) by AquaCycle (West Yorkshire, UK)        

aquacycle's profile picture
I don't know about a BETTER choice, but it would certainly be a good choice. I never pay any attention to those ratings to be honest. My Miele is a B rated spin but it spins things dryer than an A rated Hotpoint of the same speed. Performance between the Bosch and the AEG should be fairly similar, if not the same.

In my experience, Electrolux group washer-dryers tend to be one of the better machines for drying and AEG are pretty solid machines (although with most brands, they're not what they used to be). Certainly looks to be a wise choice, spec wise :).


Post# 818407 , Reply# 40   4/10/2015 at 07:39 (3,275 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

The AEG would for sure be a reasonable choice, how ever I would not pay 100£ more for only 200rpm difference. The "lower" model would be a better option in terms of price to value, but in the end, its up to you.
What passed my mind was this one:
ao.com/product/wda91440w-beko-was...
They have been launched a few months back and seem to be pretty good deals. They have air cooled condensators as well and are the "cheap" alternative to BSH. Bekos are known for good washing results in short times, so that probably will be true for their washer-dryers as well. Just to consider ;)


Post# 818413 , Reply# 41   4/10/2015 at 08:03 (3,275 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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The thing is, the top of the line AEG has a brushless motor which is going to be quitter and longer lasting than a standard brushed motor.

I would not go for BEKO at all. My auntie once had a BEKO cooker and it literally lasted 2 and a half years before it gave up an she meticulously looks after her cookers. Elements warped, fan motor needed replacing it burnt itself near the hob. No. I am after a nice washer dryer that will last a few years.

Again, it is down between the Bosch and the AEG. The AEG on paper looks like a better machine and also it is £250 less expensive, however, it is made in Italy. That makes me wonder if its made by the Candy group with there horrible metal bodies which rust out.

Everything else in my kitchen is Bosch, from the kettle to the fridge freezer, and I love all of them. The oldest of which is the kettle which is about 7 years old gets used several times a day and has been flawless. The fridge freezer I got back in January is lovely and quite and really well made, so I have no reason to not go for the Bosch, but I do want to get my moneys worth regarding longevity and performance and I trust Bosch more over AEG which I am not familiar with, although the AEG has scored well according to "Which?"

So many swings and roundabouts !


Post# 818416 , Reply# 42   4/10/2015 at 08:22 (3,275 days old) by AquaCycle (West Yorkshire, UK)        
I would not go for BEKO at all.

aquacycle's profile picture
My best friend has a bog standard Beko - 1200rpm, 5kg, variable spin. It's just gone 6 years old and it washes for 2 adults and 2 kids. Never been any trouble *touch wood* and it's not too loud either.

Beko seem to get a bed rep, because they're cheap. But in reality, they're no less reliable than any other modern brand. They're certainly a lot better than anything else in the low-mid price range of the market (Indesit, Whirlpool, Candy, Haier and low end Vestel made machines).


Post# 818418 , Reply# 43   4/10/2015 at 08:24 (3,275 days old) by AquaCycle (West Yorkshire, UK)        
That makes me wonder if its made by the Candy group

aquacycle's profile picture
It's definitely not made by Candy. It's made at the Zanussi plant along with most modern Electrolux-made machines.

Post# 818419 , Reply# 44   4/10/2015 at 08:32 (3,275 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

We had a 800€ Siemens Induction cooktop and oven, and the hoob literally exploded on me. We have a Bosch DW that had 2 new PCBs installed in its warranty time.
Beko changed. They recognized that the market is going down and people got angry over applainces, so they changed to better quality. Still, they are not a Miele, but for 500£, an air condesation washer dryer, that might last "only" 5-6 years, that seems ok.
All AEG washer-dryers have an brushless motor.


Post# 818459 , Reply# 45   4/10/2015 at 11:19 (3,275 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
Well put it this way, my friend replaced a heating element on his Beko washing machine which was just under 2 years old and all I can say is I can see why they are cheap. They are not built to last and they are very crude. They are not flimsy or terrible quality, but they are deserving of their price, but their are better ones out there, and I don't buy the " it may only last half as long but it costs half as much" as I think that is a false economy. Based on my personal experience with bosch products and family who have bosch washers and dishwasher which last years and years with no problems, I would rather spend a little bit more on something which will last and may do the job better.

As far as reliability goes, Hotpoint are very low down on the Which? list along with Indesit, but bosch are second only to Miele and there isn't a huge difference in the rating between them, but Beko got 68% reliability rate, bosch got 82%


Post# 818479 , Reply# 46   4/10/2015 at 13:06 (3,275 days old) by AquaCycle (West Yorkshire, UK)        

aquacycle's profile picture
Well, speaking from my experience, I've had no issue with any Beko products. As mentioned above, my best friend has her bog standard model and a friend of my other half has one of the first Beko Eco Care 1000's with the mechanical timer that's at least 10 years old now and still going strong. Not bad for £200.

Post# 818694 , Reply# 47   4/11/2015 at 05:08 (3,274 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
I may have found exactly what I am looking for.

It appears to be a Siemens version of the Bosch washer dryer. I have compared the specs and there is no differences I can see. Both look visually identical, both have eco silence drive brushless motors, both are the same capacity and both have the same dimensions. The difference is, the Siemens is nearly £200 cheaper? Why on earth would that be?

I know Siemens is part of Bosch but why would there be such a price difference? Are the Siemens versions seconds? Are they made from slightly lesser materials? I can't imagine so, but what justifies the price difference ?


CLICK HERE TO GO TO oliveoiltinfoil's LINK


Post# 818705 , Reply# 48   4/11/2015 at 05:33 (3,274 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Thats the first generation model. It uses more energy (Class B) and takes slightly longer. There are 3 generations of these by now, with the new ones haveing some different cycles like Hygenie which uses a low temp wash, rinses and then dries you clothes on extra high heat to disinfect them.

Post# 818707 , Reply# 49   4/11/2015 at 05:41 (3,274 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
According the AO specification table, the Siemens is more energy efficient than the Bosch ? Only difference being the Siemens is 60 DB when dryer, versus the Bosch's 50, but other than the Bosch having 5 drying programs instead of 3.

Post# 818713 , Reply# 50   4/11/2015 at 06:12 (3,274 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Strange...

I know in Germany, these models were only first generation.
These are the newest:
www.siemens-home.de/produktliste/...
And these are the second generation:
www.ao.de/produkt/wd14h540-siemen...
These with the simple displays were only sold as Energy class B rated here.


Post# 818714 , Reply# 51   4/11/2015 at 06:16 (3,274 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Just checked the websites. Bosch and Siemens only offer these midrange machines in the UK. So, I guess, AO just made a good deal when buying them.
Never recognized there was ao.de either...


Post# 818746 , Reply# 52   4/11/2015 at 09:40 (3,274 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
On several website, the Siemens is cheaper, and the Bosch is more expensive, and if the Siemens is an older generation, it seems odd that it is more energy efficient. There are some slight differences with the control panel but that is it.

Post# 818754 , Reply# 53   4/11/2015 at 10:11 (3,274 days old) by AquaCycle (West Yorkshire, UK)        
the Siemens is nearly £200 cheaper? Why on earth would that

aquacycle's profile picture
Siemens are actually the higher spec, like AEG is to Zanussi. However, BSH are pulling the Siemens brand out of the domestic appliance market, so it could be that they are on clearance ready for a new Bosch range being introduced.

Post# 818758 , Reply# 54   4/11/2015 at 10:35 (3,274 days old) by brucelucenta ()        
best choice

Sounds like you are informed and have done your homework about the various choices. I personally have a Kenmore Elite front load washer & matching dryer set made by LG that I like very much. It does a wonderful job with much less water than my old top load Maytag set. I guess it depends on where you live and what's available to you. But I'm sure you'll make the right choice for yourself. Happy laundering!

Post# 818761 , Reply# 55   4/11/2015 at 10:44 (3,274 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
Well thank you everyone for your help.

I have ordered the Siemens and it should be arriving on Tuesday. I shall post pictures and my verdict soon after :D


Post# 818953 , Reply# 56   4/12/2015 at 11:21 (3,273 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
So I was just browsing through some achieved threads and there was a post up saying all Siemens washer-dryers are made in China? Is this true? That would explain the price difference. Surely the quality should be no different especially at this price point...

Post# 818954 , Reply# 57   4/12/2015 at 11:47 (3,273 days old) by dascot (Scotland)        

Some certainly were, don't know about now. Either way, it was both Bosch and Siemens ones, so would've had no impact on price differences. The quality wasn't reduced at all either, going on reports.

Post# 818971 , Reply# 58   4/12/2015 at 14:16 (3,273 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
That is true. Bosch products built in other countries are built in Bosch factories with Bosch standards, I know that for a fact. They don't outsource any of their manufacturing, and I have Chinese made Bosch products, my kettle and toaster and they are 7 years old and are like new so haven't really got any worries thinking about it now. Cant wait for it to come :D

Post# 818977 , Reply# 59   4/12/2015 at 15:13 (3,273 days old) by BoschExxcel ()        

You're right not to worry, Bosch make brilliant appliances no matter where they are built. We've had numerous Bosch appliances over the last 12 years and only one of those had ever broken. Most of them weren't/aren't even German built!

Enjoy the new machine, I don't like washer dryers myself but a Bosch one should be one of the best.


Post# 818979 , Reply# 60   4/12/2015 at 15:25 (3,273 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
Thank you, and yes. All my Bosch stuff is not German built. The kettle, toaster and microwave are Chinese made, the fridge freezer is made in Turkey and the mower is made in UK but they are all brilliant and very well made, like a cut above mainstream stuff.

Post# 818989 , Reply# 61   4/12/2015 at 17:14 (3,273 days old) by BoschExxcel ()        

Im trying to think how many we've had, plenty!

4 Dishwashers (1 sold, 1 vandalised by a child, 2 still in current use)
2 ovens (one staying in a flat that's being sold, other still in use)
2 gas hobs (still got one & other in fact being sold)
3 Washing machines (1 in house about to be sold, one in current use & other now in rental house)
3 Fridge/Freezers (one in rental house, one in flat being sold, still got the other)
2 Dryers (still got both)
1 Lawn Mower

I think that's all of them, sorry for boring you! Lol

All of them are either still going or been moved on except of a brilliant dishwasher which was 12 years old until it was vandalised beyond repair by a tenants child. Sad.

I doubt you'll regret your choice!


Post# 819109 , Reply# 62   4/13/2015 at 15:30 (3,272 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
Bosch have strict standards when it comes to quality and performance. Yeah, there stuff does last. Our previous fridge and freezer from them was 15 years old and there was nothing wrong with it, just needed something bigger.

This is something I think I did mention earlier. How much better will this Bosch be at performance compared to what I have been used to for 10 years? It is a Hotpoint AQXXL 129 PM.


Post# 821865 , Reply# 63   5/3/2015 at 10:14 (3,252 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
Update**

AO contacted me to say they can not get stock of the Siemens washer dryer from their suppliers. Something tells me they will be discontinuing this model, which coincides with members on here saying Siemens are pulling out of the domestic appliance market all together.

So about 2 and a half weeks ago, I ordered and received a Bosch washing machine. I am thinking that I can get a larger capacity for both the washing machine and dryer by having two separate machines, and also with everyone else saying two separate machines are better than one, and considering I have recently moved and now have a utilities room, I have more than enough room for both now.

So I got this model form AO (link below) and it is a fantastic machine. Really nicely built and the performance is good. However, it is making a very strange banging noise which starts halfway through the program. The machine appears to be very unbalanced. It jolts so much it actually moves the machine a couple of inches. The load is not unbalanced, I have never had this before with my hotpoint and all the clothes are separated and placed in carefully. All 4 delivery bolts have been removed as well and the machine is level. Really doesn't make sense.

One thing I have noticed is the lee-way for the drum moving backwards and forwards is only about two inches before the drum hits something at the back of the machine. My hotpoint drum you could moved back several inches before it would hit anything, if that makes sense. It doesn't make this noise when I am doing a drum clean or if I have half a dozen hand towels in, but any normal wash load it keep making this noise.

So just contacted AO. They are ringing bosch tomorrow to discuss what to do, to probably send an engineer out. I don't like the idea of my machine already being repaired at less than 3 weeks old. Will be having words if that's their way of dealing with it.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO oliveoiltinfoil's LINK


Post# 821903 , Reply# 64   5/3/2015 at 17:18 (3,252 days old) by BoschExxcel ()        

Glad to hear you're going for two separate machines. It is possible that Siemens will be no more, but we will have to wait and see!

I'm sorry to hear you're having a few problems with it, hopefully they can be easily rectified. Please could you post some pictures of it?

Thanks.


Post# 821940 , Reply# 65   5/4/2015 at 01:50 (3,251 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Bosch and Siemens are both participants in the BSH household group. What happens is that Bosch takes over all the shares from Siemens. The brand Siemens will stay as a white goods brand, but it will be 100% owned by Bosch.

Post# 821945 , Reply# 66   5/4/2015 at 03:02 (3,251 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
Thank you BoschExxcel. Otherwise it is a beautiful machine, beautifully made, and has shown up my hotpoint for washing performance, as my whites are now coming out a much crisper white! The normal everyday program "mixed" takes half the time to complete than the hotpoint.

A handful of picture here. One thing I did notice was the detergent draw. Must have been a Friday built machine as the panel gaps are a bit sloppy. Not really that impressive on a £480 machine, but it is nit picking. It closes with a nice "clunk".

Also, the drain plug hole thing has a tube which I haven't seen before. Do most machines have them now? Does it make draining easier ?


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Post# 821950 , Reply# 67   5/4/2015 at 05:55 (3,251 days old) by Krisirl ()        

Can you try the Allergy+ programme with Aqua Plus to see what the water levels are like?

Post# 821952 , Reply# 68   5/4/2015 at 06:48 (3,251 days old) by BoschExxcel ()        

Many thanks for the pictures! It looks lovely, helpfully I can have another Bosch at my mums soon to replace the Whirlpool.

What temperature options does it have? I presume the normal cold,20,30,40,60,90?

Thanks.


Post# 821955 , Reply# 69   5/4/2015 at 07:34 (3,251 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
It is a very nice machine, just wish it would stop this knocking, other than that is washes cloths brilliantly and they come out dryer than my previous machine.

Post# 821960 , Reply# 70   5/4/2015 at 08:53 (3,251 days old) by aeg03 (London, UK)        

There is nothing wrong with Beko machines. I know many people who have Beko and Indesit made machines and have been more than happy with them for many years trouble free use. That's the important factor that the machine doesn't require any technicians coming out.

That tube in the Bosch is to allow to remove excess water in the pump and it does make access easier with less mess. I wish my Hotpoint Smart had that. But it's not likely that I would need to inspect the pump.

It's down to user experience. AEG/Zanussi used to be my favourite but not anymore.

Miele looks like the ultimate machine and if I had the money, I would have gone for one. I love their latest machines with the powerjet easy system. My budget allowed me to get a Hotpoint and it met my criteria with the instant door release and quiet inverter motor, which I absolutely love and it's nice and quiet, even when unbalanced and cleans really well and I like how it adapts it's behaviour according to the absorbency of the wash.

LG is another great looking model for the technology but I dislike the dark doors on them. My parents have a 2004 Bosch dishwasher that's on the potential fire recall list but the family haven't bothered to get an engineer out and just ensure they don't use it when out or at night. It's still going strong.
Enjoy the new machine.


Post# 821962 , Reply# 71   5/4/2015 at 09:12 (3,251 days old) by BoschExxcel ()        

Yes I know about Beko. They seem reliable enough but not really my scene, however I'm planning to get one for my new holiday home in Cyprus.

My old Bosch dishwasher was also on the recall list, but it never had a single issue in the 12 years that it was in my old house. It was only replaced as it was damaged beyond repair by a tenants child! I for one will continue buying Bosch as they're good value for money, and in my cases, they've never put a foot wrong.


Post# 821963 , Reply# 72   5/4/2015 at 09:15 (3,251 days old) by BoschExxcel ()        

oliveoiltinfoil, (cool name btw)

Would it be possible if you could upload a video so we could hear the knocking? Thanks


Post# 822017 , Reply# 73   5/4/2015 at 16:51 (3,251 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
Haha, thank you BoschExxel. Yeah I was thinking of doing, that suppose, I could. Will do a load tomorrow morning and hopefully record it.

Post# 822022 , Reply# 74   5/4/2015 at 17:46 (3,251 days old) by dascot (Scotland)        

A lot of German made machines have had those tubes to drain excess water for quite some time - can definitely remember AEGs & Bosch machines from late 80s having them, certainly. Zanussi started doing it after AEG merged in with the Electrolux group as well.

The leeway for the drum moving is probably a side effect of the larger capacity machines demanded by consumers who don't want bigger cabinets. That wouldn't explain the jumping though.


Post# 822076 , Reply# 75   5/5/2015 at 02:02 (3,250 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
Yes I did think that may be the point, but its only half a kilo more than my hotpoint, but the drums itself may be bigger than that would suggest.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO oliveoiltinfoil's LINK


Post# 822087 , Reply# 76   5/5/2015 at 06:01 (3,250 days old) by BoschExxcel ()        

Look forward to the video. :)

Also my old Bosch from 2005 had a tube for draining excess water too. So must have been around for a while. I a good idea I think!


Post# 822193 , Reply# 77   5/6/2015 at 04:28 (3,249 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        
I feel so stupid...

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
So I rang up AO on Sunday of all days, they said they would contact Bosch and get them to call me to arrange an engineer visit. Bosch rung up and were really very understanding and polite and I pointed out I didn't want to machine pulled apart at under 3 weeks old, they said that is fine. If the engineer finds a fault, tell them not to repair it, they will then report that back to Bosch, then back to AO. They booked me an engineer the following day, for today! Said they would come between 8am and 4pm.

Had a text come through to give me an hours time slot, which was also good. A genuine Bosch engineer arrived in his VW Caddy, very nice bloke. Pulled the machine out form the counter to discover these plastic lugs were still attached. These are what the transit bolts screw into, and at the end of the lugs as you can see, stops the drum from moving to much. You can probably guess the rest.

Although these lugs were loose, the drum was hitting two of them, hence why they are damaged. In my defence, and the Bosch engineer actually said this, there is no where in the instruction which tells you to remove them, it just tells you to remove the transit "bolts". He just pulled them out, chucked two large bath towels in, spun it and it was as solid as a rock, and the drum actually has suspension now as it should. Thought my instincts served me well !

He said no damage would have been done to the machine, just those plastic things. No call out charge either which again was good of them.

Anyways, I got talking to him while the program was running, saying why I chose a Bosch machine and that particular one. I mentioned actually I wanted a Siemens washer dryer. He said while washer dryers are much better than they were and Bosch group probably make the best, they are still not as good as having two separate machine, like having a two in one shampoo and conditioner for your hair. Any good hair dresser will tell you they are never as good for you as two separate ones.

He said he used to be a Hotpoint engineer for 15 years, and what a great company they were to work for, producing good quality machines, but Indiset ruined them, reducing the quality and closing down all British manufacturing of their products. He knew about EBAC producing British made machine in country Durham because as it turns out, they have been working with Bosch to produce the wash programs and manufacturing the drums for them ! Wouldn't you know that !

So now I have an all up together machine that doesn't clout and bang about. He said the feet don't have to be level as it is very difficult to do so on a washing machine because they are so bloody heavy, they just have to be sitting on a solid, relatively level floor, which mine is.

So sorry, I can no longer do no video of a bouncing Bosch machine! Other than a very quite wash cycle :P



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Post# 822198 , Reply# 78   5/6/2015 at 05:23 (3,249 days old) by BoschExxcel ()        

Very pleased you got it sorted! Easy mistake to make really, I found the transit bolts in my dads Classixx more difficult to remove than the ones in my whirlpool.

Hopefully it will give you many years of reliable and enjoyable washing! Would love to see a video of it!


Post# 822227 , Reply# 79   5/6/2015 at 10:02 (3,249 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
If you want, I will make a video of a mixed load. It is actually quite interesting, as like when my auntie came round I was just putting a load on and she actually commented on it. The water come running down the inside of the door and the drums turn slowly as the water is coming in, rather than every other machine I have seen where the water fill the drum and then it turns.

Post# 822260 , Reply# 80   5/6/2015 at 13:12 (3,249 days old) by BoschExxcel ()        

Ahh yes please. My Whirlpool senses the load like an LG before filing so it's rather interesting to watch. My dads Classixx sometimes fills without tumbling and sometimes it moves, depending on programme. :)

Post# 822284 , Reply# 81   5/6/2015 at 15:31 (3,249 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
Yepp, my Bosch does that. The drum twitches as soon as you start the program as it senses how much water and energy to use. Really actually very interesting.

Post# 822286 , Reply# 82   5/6/2015 at 15:57 (3,249 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

The Bosch is still different to the Whirlpool approach to all that.
As long as Bosch hasn't changed a lot about that range (though I never saw a Bosch like this before), the wiggle at the start is the internal motor test. Load sensing is still done by absorbancy (Is that how you spell it? I don't know...) messurement. It adds water until the load is saturated and determines how much there is to wash by the amount of water needed and adapts how long it has to wash. Thats the one of 2 major load sensing techniques. Electrolux still uses it along with BSH and Miele as well as Hotpoint\Indesit, Acrelik (Beko, Blomberg, a lot of Servis laundry today) and most cheaper brands.
LG, Samsung and Panasonic use a pure weight determent by drummovement. There are various sensing protocols (a single spin, 3 consecutive spins or just several verry short turns for example), but all monitor motor data like rpm, voltage and amperage to determine the weight of the load which consecutivley determines the wash time. Water usage is no longer actually measured; they just fill until the level stays within the desired limits.
Whirlpool as well as verry few of the others use a hybrid of both: they initially sense the weight which adapt the time and programm majorly, and then the absorbancy-measurement adjust minor programm parameters like rinse levels, interim spins and may cut off\ add a minute for heating here and there.


Post# 822294 , Reply# 83   5/6/2015 at 16:49 (3,249 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
Well, however it works, it works very well. My clothes are actually brighter than they have been in a long time, and it applies the fabric softener better than the hotpoint. With my hotpoint, it wouldn't really make a difference if you used softener or not, it was pretty useless, but on the bosch, they feel softer and you can smell the softener, the clothes themselves are softer!

One of my aunties has a 12 year old Bosch machine and it doesn't look a million miles apart from this. Major difference is my display panel and the silver shiny knob. One thing I wish Bosch and many other manufactures wold do is to tilt forward the control panel like EBAC have done. Makes selecting the program much easier, no need to bend down.

The engineer says this model is made in Germany, which is nice, although whoever fitted the detergent draw was having an off day as it isn't completely lined up, but that is serious nit picking. Both the door and the draw close with a click and clunk.



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