Thread Number: 58098  /  Tag: Other Home Products or Autos
Dual turntables.
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Post# 805850   1/25/2015 at 00:07 (1,030 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        

anyone use or like Dual turntables? My main turntable is a Dual:a model 1229 from 1972-it's a wheel drive,but a pretty good one,features:
-very heavy metal alloy platter
-4pole motor with pemanent magnet syncronizer ring
-neon strobe(mine"silvered up"and dim)
a friend has a ~1975 era dual that is belt drive,but i don't know what kind of motor it has.





Post# 805863 , Reply# 1   1/25/2015 at 01:00 (1,030 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
One of these days I hope to get a Dual changer running. I can't remember the model, but it's part of the 10 series. I'm thinking 1015, but don't quote me. I won't be using it as a changer, but as a single play turntable for 78s.



Post# 805864 , Reply# 2   1/25/2015 at 01:24 (1,030 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

I am the webmaster for the Dual Reference website, the most comprehensive Dual turntable website on the net! It's been in operation since 1997.

If you have any questions at all about Dual turntables, just ask. If I don't have the answer I know a bunch of people in the world of Dual who would know the answer!


CLICK HERE TO GO TO whirlcool's LINK


Post# 805865 , Reply# 3   1/25/2015 at 01:37 (1,030 days old) by A440 ()        

Dual Turntable are awesome! 

I have quite a few 1229's and a few others that I can't recall their model numbers. 

I quit using them when I started to find high end Linear Turntables.

All of them have wood bases and the original tops. 

I need to get them out and sell them to someone who could get them up to specs.

They truly are amazingly well built units. All of the Dual line.  Even what was considered "El Cheapo" during the time was very good.

B


Post# 805867 , Reply# 4   1/25/2015 at 01:46 (1,030 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

If you are going to sell your Dual turntables, contact Bill Neumann of FixMyDual.com. He is an expert Dual repair tech and refurbishes Dual turntables and I believe he buys them from people too. He's a nice guy to top it off. I bought my Dual 701 from him and it looks like it just left the factory it was that clean.

Post# 805953 , Reply# 5   1/25/2015 at 14:28 (1,029 days old) by paulg (My sweet home... Chicago)        
I loved my Dual changer

paulg's profile picture
I used it for years until it was damaged in a basement flood.
Great quality and "can't kill" designs.
I'm glad to know Whirlcool hosts a Dual website.
I spin my vinyl virtually everynight...


Post# 805959 , Reply# 6   1/25/2015 at 15:39 (1,029 days old) by philcobendixduo (San Jose)        
I had a DUAL back in the 1980's....

philcobendixduo's profile picture
....that I purchased for the sole purpose of being able to play a stack of records on my "high-end" stereo system (well - it was all Pioneer!). I also had a Pioneer single play turntable at the time - both hooked up to my Pioneer SX980 receiver (imagine - it had TWO phono inputs!).
I don't have a good pic of it but here is a pic from the brochure.
There were not too many "audiophile" quality record changers available back then.
I now have a Technics turntable and have "digitized" all my vinyl so it's in iTunes now. MUCH more convenient - BUT I still have the albums just in case I want to read the jackets or play them in "original quality".


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Post# 805964 , Reply# 7   1/25/2015 at 16:11 (1,029 days old) by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT)        
Duals were great...

firedome's profile picture
at least up to the '80s, anyhow. Seems like everything audio-electronic got cheaper then. Bought a 1009 around '67/8 and used it until we went over to Thorens and Empires in the mid '70s. Came across a mint 1019 about 10 yrs ago and gave it to my son, who still has it. I can recall driving past the Dual factory somewhere in southern Germany around 1976 or so, in a very picturesque area.

Post# 805978 , Reply# 8   1/25/2015 at 17:32 (1,029 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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>up to the '80s, anyhow. Seems like everything audio-electronic got cheaper then.

It does seem that way.

Dual did maintain some quality, unlike other some other companies. At least on some of their models. One model was very popular in England among impoverished audiophiles. I think it was the CS 505.

In the US, the CS 5000 was hot in the mid 1980s.

One of my regrets was someone sold a CS 5000 dirt cheap through local classifieds. It was new, or very newly new IIRC. At the time, I think I was in between systems. I had different aspirations, but I now wish I'd bought the Dual. It would have helped accelerate the day of getting an audio system. (For that matter, I had an old console unit that I could have used with the Dual to play records.) Perhaps the Dual would have been all the turntable I'd have needed. Also it had a 78 RPM speed, which, even at that time, was of interest. But...I passed, thinking I'd rather have something else. If I wanted to play 78s, I reasoned, I could probably find a Dual CS5000 later on. I could find it later, but I've never seen one for sale cheap since that time.


Post# 806049 , Reply# 9   1/26/2015 at 00:49 (1,029 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

Certain Dual models like the 701, 1229, 1219, CS5000, CS7000(if you can find one) all go for much more than they were sold for new. A CS5000 in excellent condition will set you back around $400.

What Dual was known for was delivering a turntable that gave generally good performance for a price most people could afford. Some models were very good, some were very crappy. The 1970's wood base models are the most popular.

The biggest thing that goes wrong with Dual turntables is that over time the lubricants used on the turntables age and dry out. Then the mechanism of the turntable starts to "stick". The owner then "helps it long" and eventually something may break. And parts for some series, like the 1000 series are unobtainium. The 1200 series parts are getting harder for find.
The way to prevent this from happening to your turntable is to either clean and lubricate it yourself about once every 3-5 years, or have it done at a shop that does that kind of work($200). The lubricants used today last a lot longer than the stuff Dual used long ago.

Yes, the Dual factory was in der Schwartzwald, or Black Forest in St. Georgen, Germany. The former factory is now partially a Dual museum and a trade school.


Post# 806054 , Reply# 10   1/26/2015 at 01:18 (1,029 days old) by hydralique (Los Angeles)        

IIRC my first component turntable was a 1229 when I was in high school, I mowed lawns to pay for that thing! It was a nice turntable even being Dual's BOL and never gave me any trouble. Ultimately it was sold to someone in my dorm at university and replaced with a belt drive Setton, my reasoning being that I never used the changer function and so a single play turntable would likely last longer. I still have the Setton so in a way that worked out.


Post# 806059 , Reply# 11   1/26/2015 at 03:16 (1,029 days old) by electron1100 (England)        
Same Here

electron1100's profile picture
I cannot add anything to list of praise for the Dual decks, solid well built reliable (with the occasional service), the 701 was legendary when introduced over here in the UK, the 501 became the PL-12D of the 80s.

Just sit back and enjoy the sound

Gary


Post# 806103 , Reply# 12   1/26/2015 at 11:42 (1,028 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

Even though Dual was known for their turntables, they made a complete line of audio equipment as well over the years. In Europe they were known also for their compact systems, turntables, receiver all in one unit. These were never sold here in the U.S. The link leads to a 1988 Dual Complete Product Line catalog.

In fact Dual products were sold all over the world in more than 80 countries at one time! In the U.S. they sold turntables, tuners and cassette decks even though turntable sales far exceeded any other audio devices they sold here.

The Dual-Reference website at this time has about 600 pages to it, and it's heavy on what was sold in the U.S. One of these years I'll get around to adding more info to it. But the turntable section is pretty complete.

What got me started on the Dual website was that in 1996 I bought a Dual CS528 on Ebay in mint condition. I looked on the Internet for info about Dual and they still had a website, but was very limited in what they covered. I have a friend that had a stereo repair shop and he had most all of the service manuals for Dual turntables. I initially thought, well Dual maybe sold what about 10 models of turntables here in the U.S.? Boy was I wrong! And this is what lead me to start the Dual-Reference website.

There was a company in Toronto called All In One Electronics that had the largest inventory or Dual spare parts in the world. But they shut down in 2011 or so. Since then spare parts for Dual have become tougher to find.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO whirlcool's LINK


Post# 806105 , Reply# 13   1/26/2015 at 11:45 (1,028 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

Plus we have plenty of advertising for other Dual products too.....

I know the website needs some work, all the original HTML code is outdated. One of these days I plan on converting it to a database with CSS style sheets.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO whirlcool's LINK


Post# 806151 , Reply# 14   1/26/2015 at 17:14 (1,028 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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>In Europe they were known also for their compact systems, turntables, receiver all in one unit.

Does anyone know how good these compact systems were? I assume they must have been better than the compact systems that I've seen in the US from many different companies, all of which were the rock bottom grade audio equipment.

Too bad they weren't sold here. It could be an interesting second system.

>The link leads to a 1988 Dual Complete Product Line catalog.

Interesting looking through that!

I briefly had one model listed in the last 5 years: the CS-431. The rock bottom. "This semi-automatic Hi-Fi turntable with automatic tonearm return makes music an experience." Err...it wasn't much of an experience for me. Although it didn't sound completely terrible. Plus it was probably dirt cheap new, and the competition was probably entirely Japanese "Plastic decks."



Post# 806161 , Reply# 15   1/26/2015 at 18:20 (1,028 days old) by washabear (Maryland)        

I have a 1229, currently fitted with an Audio Technica 440ML cartridge. It plays very well, sounds great, and the automatic functions still work fine. One small issue is that it sometimes makes a very faint thumping sound when rotating, which I was told was most likely due to the strobe paper underneath coming loose and rubbing against something, but I haven't gotten around to investigating it.

Still very pleased with it. It works better than the Garrard Zero 100 I also have and like, although the Dual tracks better, notwithstanding the zero tracking error mumbo jumbo touted for the Garrard (which I still think is a cool gadget that looks fantastic).



Post# 806162 , Reply# 16   1/26/2015 at 18:26 (1,028 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

As for the paper coming off the bottom of the platter.... easy fix. Just remove the platter and see where the paper is loose at on the underside and reglue it/tape it back in place.

It could be the idler wheel has a flat spot on it. No problem, there is a guy in Michigan I think that will completely rerubber your idler wheel and it will perform like new again. One problem with the idler wheel drives on some of the Dual's is that the rubber gets hard and may ever crack. New idler wheels are almost impossible to find. This guy in Michigan will rerubber your idler wheel like new for about $35. or so. I've heard from a lot of people who have done this and he does a spectacular job on them.


Post# 806164 , Reply# 17   1/26/2015 at 18:34 (1,028 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

Here is link to the brochure which covers Dual's compact stereo line. From what I understand they were great sellers. I certainly do get a lot of questions about them. They used normal Dual turntables on them. The brochure has quite a bit of detail about the specs they had.

These may or may not have been sold in Canada. I know they were never sold here in the U.S.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO whirlcool's LINK


Post# 806173 , Reply# 18   1/26/2015 at 19:52 (1,028 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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Thanks for the brochure link!

The fact that they used regular Dual turntables could make it possible to even pick up one of those systems in Europe, and convert it to US power. The big issue usually seems to be motors, but if the turntable is one that existed in this market, a motor transplant (or even swapping the turntable) would be possible. Not sure how much interest I'd have, but one of those systems could be an interesting second system/conversation piece.


Post# 806182 , Reply# 19   1/26/2015 at 21:00 (1,028 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        
voltage conversion

IIRC,the motor in my 1229 has 4 wires and can be connected for 115 or 230-in any case current drawn by the motor is so low a small transformer could be used for voltage conversion.For a 50 hz wheel drive turntable,a 60 hz motor spindle will be needed for NA use.If turntable has an electronic controlled motor,only a simple voltage conversion will be needed :)

Post# 806209 , Reply# 20   1/27/2015 at 01:18 (1,028 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

Actually it's the idler wheel that will need to be changed to a 60Hz model if you are converting from a 50Hz model. Most all Dual turntables are voltage switchable. Some models have a voltage switch while other models just have you swap a wire or two on the start switch. The method to be used for any one Dual turntable is detailed in that model's Service Manual, of which are readily available on the internet.

And if it's a belt drive turntable that is to be voltage converted, a new drive pulley for 60hz will be needed. These are still available from some suppliers.


Post# 806227 , Reply# 21   1/27/2015 at 05:27 (1,028 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

Now whirly, read that first sentence again. There's a reason they call it "idler". Because a single-wheel idler has nothing to do with the ultimate speed. The motor spindle changes between 50 and 60.

Good old Dual. As good as it needed to be to be great without costing that much. Without looking I think mine is 505. Manual start, auto lift and shutoff. Very good arm suspension, capable of the best cartridges (Shure V15-IV). I actually managed to wear out a V15 stylus. Empire saved it with a replacement, though not identical. Shure no longer supports most of their cartridge line, only a few 'deejay' models.


Post# 806235 , Reply# 22   1/27/2015 at 07:11 (1,027 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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>Shure no longer supports most of their cartridge line, only a few 'deejay' models.

Not surprising. The cartridge line itself is a shadow of what it used to be.

Past stylus availability, there has been some criticism that the replacement styli for some older models are not as good as the original was.

There are still various after market styli. Quality is probably variable, but lpgear.com carries some made by Jico that should be pretty good. I have no experience with Jico, but they have a good reputation. Some people feel that the current Shure M97xE performs better with the best Jico stylus than it does the actual Shure M97 stylus.



Post# 806242 , Reply# 23   1/27/2015 at 08:46 (1,027 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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I found one at a thrift store...had to have it....what I like for this one is its multi purpose, single player or changer

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Post# 806291 , Reply# 24   1/27/2015 at 12:31 (1,027 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

RickB:

No, on Dual turntables the spindle does actually nothing. It is not connected to the motor in any way shape or form. The spindle(single) is only about 1/2" long and sits in a hole in the middle of the platter. It goes around and around with the platter but does not drive the platter at all. This is so you don't wear out the hole in your 33.3 records.

The idler wheel is directly connected to the motor shaft in Dual turntables. This was to reduce vibration. The idler wheel contacts the inside of the platter and drives the turntable in that manner.Dual's philosophy was to separate the platter and the motor with as much rubber damping material to reduce wow & flutter.

On belt drive Dual turntables the platter is driven by a belt that runs through a pulley that is connected to the motor. The spindle still doesn't have anything to do with driving the platter.

On changer Dual's the records are not dropped down to the platter, but ride down on prongs that act as an elevator to gently lower the record down to the platter.

The Shure V-15 III debuted as the standard cartridge for the Dual 701 cartridges.
I know the guy who runs LPGear. He's very nice and really into audio. He also carries pretty much the widest variety of replacement styli than anyone else I know. I have heard the same about the Jico cartridges. I use a Pickering XSV-3000 cartridge in my 701 and the replacement styli has been unavailable for years. The Jico replacement is just as good as the original. Jico also OEM's replacement styli for quite a number of cartridge manufacturers.


Post# 806312 , Reply# 25   1/27/2015 at 14:23 (1,027 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

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The first new turntable that I bought when I was a kid was a 1228 in 1990! I had wished to find a 1229 but the store who still had plenty of new-in-box 1226 and 1228 didn't have any remaining 1229! With the Ortofon cartdrige, the 45 rpm adapter and the cartridge holder with a two position knob it did cost me over $200 which was quite a lot of money for me when I was 13 (and still today!). I liked to play stacks of 45 rpm records. I used it along with a $15 Pioneer SX-800 tube reciever that I got used for $15. I still have both but I harn't used them for years as the SX-800 needs service as it blew a capacitor and had a few other issues.

Post# 806410 , Reply# 26   1/28/2015 at 05:29 (1,027 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

Of course I didn't mean the platter spindle, but the motor one. I should have called it 'pulley'.

The 505 has some kind of voodoo motor that runs much slower than the expected 1800rpm a non-electronic induction motor runs. The belts lose their usability regularly.

What's most troubling is the deviation between 33 and 45 with the same pulley-spreader setting AND the fact that the spreader is also belt operated and the spreader belt is VERY expensive.


Post# 806411 , Reply# 27   1/28/2015 at 05:31 (1,027 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

And when you try to restart the 1228 you may have problems with it. What happens is that Dual recommended a clean and relubrication every three years on most models of their turntables. Most owners never performed this service. What happens is that the original lubricants dry out, become hard and then parts that are supposed to move freely stop doing so. What happens is that the turntable won't turn, the speed is off, the start switch is jammed, or any combination there or.

We have a lubrication section on the Dual-Reference.com website that discusses this issue. If you are even slightly mechanical you can do the job yourself. It's boring and tedious but it can be done. I have also listed replacement lubricants that you can use that last longer than the originals and won't dry out and solidify on you. I have these listed on the website too.

You can also send out your turntable to have this done for you. The cost is around $200 and 95% of that cost is labor.

Usually owners know this has happened to their turntable when they try to put it back in service after being in storage for several years.


Post# 806412 , Reply# 28   1/28/2015 at 05:39 (1,026 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        
A shameless plug

Bill Neumann of "fix My Dual" has replacement bases for Dual turntables. Most of the bases that came with the 1219, 1229, etc. were made of chip board covered with a veneer. Over time moisture has migrated into these bases and a lot of them are coming apart.

The bases Bill makes are custom fit and are available in several different finishes. They are made from solid walnut. I bought one for my 701 a few years back and it really surprised me how much it damped vibration on the 701, not that it had much in the first place. These bases are a work of art and I think he was only charging $75-$100 each for them, which is a deal for what they are.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO whirlcool's LINK


Post# 806476 , Reply# 29   1/28/2015 at 13:14 (1,026 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        
replacement bases for Dual turntables

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Those look like nice bases!

Another thing that might be interesting to try for one of the idler wheel designs is making a base using as solid a base as possible, and making it fairly heavy. This is--or was a few years ago--a preferred approach for other idler wheel turntables.


Post# 806477 , Reply# 30   1/28/2015 at 13:19 (1,026 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        
preferred approach for other idler wheel turntables

lordkenmore's profile picture
Then, again, maybe not. These people take a different approach for the Garrard... I suppose it's a case of "to each their own."

www.garrard501.com/faq.html#plint...


Post# 806552 , Reply# 31   1/29/2015 at 03:25 (1,026 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Dual TT-have one in one of my closets that I bought at a yard sale for a couple bucks.The units arm mechanism is froze up.It is a single play unit-not a changer.Forget the model# offhand.This thread may inspire me to drag it out and take a closer look.The last time I did look at it-indeed the motor lived up to the units name---You could strap the windings to run off 120/240V.
Garrad 301 TT Very rarely these show up in small radio stations-regional 1Kw AM and small FM stations.Just replace them with something newer.
TT bases-Broadcast studio TT bases have a large cabinet that you can put bricks,cinder blocks or bags of lead shot to weight them and dampen them.Or the weight of equipment put in the TT base does the job-TT preamps,CD and cassette players.The TT bases usually have a small 19" rack mount in them.
Another strange thing that can happen in AM stations--if the TT has a bad idler wheel causing rumble or WF-that can trip the AM transmitter modulator OL relays.


Post# 806572 , Reply# 32   1/29/2015 at 08:11 (1,025 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

Rex:

It sounds like the old dried out lubrication issue with your turntable. It's important not to "help things along" when trying to operate it. When the turntable operation stiffens up and people do this, parts could break. And depending on the model you have the parts that break may or may not be unobtainium. This is especially true for the 1000 series turntable.

Dual made a rugged product, but they do require maintenance from time to time.


Post# 806628 , Reply# 33   1/29/2015 at 18:41 (1,025 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        
Dual made a rugged product, but they do require maintenance

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Not unreasonable. Especially in the case of a 40+ year old Dual that has been in storage since Carter left office.

I've seen the issue of lubrication gumming up a time or two. First time was on a PE (which might have been made after Dual absorbed them). The motor absolutely refused to turn. A good oiling and it ran smoothly.

Second time was on a BIC. (Side note: there was apparently a joke that BIC stood for "But It's Cheap.") The platter was totally frozen on that one. I have no idea why it was frozen, but I later learned that it was more than likely the lubrication gumming up and freezing.

Another thought: there is something to be said for something that can be lubricated. A sealed motor that is oiled for life is convenient, but if it reaches the point where the oil gums up, well, it's not a cleaning/oiling, it's a whole new motor...


Post# 806630 , Reply# 34   1/29/2015 at 19:01 (1,025 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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One thing I've been wondering is how well the Dual 10" or so platters work with the beginning of 12" LPs. It seems like the LP could possibly sag slightly on the outside. Not perhaps much of an issue back in the 1960s, but certainly one with more modern, thinner LPs.

Post# 806643 , Reply# 35   1/29/2015 at 20:25 (1,025 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

Most Dual motors can be disassembled so that they can be cleaned and lubricated. They are quiet too. If they make any noise at all they need a lubrication.

You are correct, P&E was a competitor of Dual. Dual eventually bought them and continued to make turntables under the P+E name. They are very similar to Dual turnables. Dual and P+E both made turntables for use in systems made by Grundig, Telefunken, Saba and even Sony for awhile. On the Dual Reference Website there is the complete history of Dual from the beginning in 1900 to the end in 2001.

The 10" platter on Dual turntables is no problem for 33rpm records. The tonearm is so light that it doesn't bother the record at all. Because of the philosophy of a low mass tonearm moving coil cartridges don't work well on Dual turntables. MC cartridges prefer a little more mass than the Dual turntable arm offers.


Post# 806649 , Reply# 36   1/29/2015 at 21:42 (1,025 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
Interesting history.

I noticed this 1987 event:

"Perpetuum-Ebner (P+E) (whose turntable business was previously bought out by DUAL) buys DUAL from Thompson Grand Public, of Paris."

Interesting how that happens sometimes.


Post# 806666 , Reply# 37   1/30/2015 at 00:28 (1,025 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Allen-can go along with you there-old lube mixed with dust and dirt.Will have to give it the same treatment that I do to radio station TT's take part-clean and lube as good as you can.Have taken apart TT motors for lubing-usually TT motors are pretty simple to service-just haven't gotten to it.Just thought it striking to find a Dual TT at a yard sale for a couple bucks.Beleive it is a 1000 series machine-and single play one.My first Hi-Fi system had a standalone PE turntable.Was a nice machine-it got lost in the Rapid City SD flood of '72.The rest of the Hi-fi setup was a Scott LK48 amp and a pair of Karlsen speaker cabinets with Philips drivers.It sounded rather good.The bass response of that Scott amp was pretty good for only 24W perchannel.It had HUGE output transformers in its output stages!So miss that amp-would like another.

Post# 806669 , Reply# 38   1/30/2015 at 00:45 (1,025 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

When you are ready to clean and relube that turntable let me know, I'll send you the Service Manual for the unit which shows what the lubrication points are.

Be careful when lubricating a Dual turntable. Some parts actually use friction to operate and if you lube or oil the wrong part the turntable won't operate properly. Dual used specific lubricants in specific places on the turntable. The Service Manual outlines what goes where.

As for the history, P+E earlier was bought from Dual by Thomson earlier and then bought Dual from Thomson Electronics of France.They didn't hold on to it very long before they sold it to Schneider of Germany. When Schneider of Germany went bankrupt, they took Dual with them. The company was then out of business. Before the Thomson deal Dual was owned by Ortofon, the cartridge manufacturer.

The history of Dual as I have it listed was taken directly from the last Dual of Germany's website before it was taken down in 2001.


Post# 806684 , Reply# 39   1/30/2015 at 06:34 (1,024 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

That is too bad Dual went down--such fine TT's!!!Dealt with Thomson out here-two of our transmitter had to get parts and tubes thru them.Now it is under a diffrent company-offhand forgot the name.Will let you know when I dig the TT out and can find its model#.Thanks for the help!Good to have stumbled onto a Dual TT man!Then I can have an extra TT.Have several Technics TT's from a radio station -like the Duals better.

Post# 806766 , Reply# 40   1/30/2015 at 15:39 (1,024 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

In the late 80's there was so much consolidation in the audio industry. A lot of European and American audio brands went out of business or were bought out by a conglomerate of some kind and left to die on the vine. Then while this was going on the Japanese brought to market electronics that were much cheaper that grabbed market share. It's almost surprising that Dual lasted as long as it did.

BTW, a Korean company bought the Dual name. In America it's known as Namsumg Electronics of Heathrow, FL. www.dualav.com... They make car stereos and speakers in Korea for sale here. It seems the Korean company bought the rights to the Dual name and then sold those off to different companies in different countries so two you can have two Dual products from anywhere in the world and they will probably have been made by two different companies. There is no commonality with this Dual and the former Dual of Germany. Dual in America does sell a turntable, but it's a cheapie model made in Korea.

Walmart at one time sold the new Dual car stereos, but dropped the line after massive reliability issues.


Post# 806812 , Reply# 41   1/31/2015 at 01:44 (1,024 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Sad that now Dual --one time a top name in Hi-Fi equipment is now relegated to a name put on cheap,trash truck food products.

Post# 806822 , Reply# 42   1/31/2015 at 05:11 (1,024 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        
Yeh, you know....

Like Westinghouse, Bell & Howell, RCA, Frigidaire, Maytag, Hotpoint, GE. Tip of the iceberg.

Post# 954355 , Reply# 43   8/24/2017 at 11:27 by ovrphil (N.Atlanta / Georgia )        
Dual link

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I know this is an old, old link -but does anyone know if Allen (Whirlcool) moved his Dual website? The link mentioned above is dead.

I have a couple Duals...10XX series. Thanks anyone, if you have any information about the website moving or just being retired by Allen.


Phil



Post# 954357 , Reply# 44   8/24/2017 at 11:30 by brucelucenta (Italy)        

I like Dual, but I like Elac/Miracord better!!!

Post# 954359 , Reply# 45   8/24/2017 at 11:36 by ovrphil (N.Atlanta / Georgia )        

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Bruce - I have a Miracord 10F, also - just acquired a Fisher Compact Electra VIII(1965) with one in it that works..but needs the usual cleaning and lubing, as it has sat a long time.

Post# 954373 , Reply# 46   8/24/2017 at 15:33 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
I have a belt drive

Techniques model SL220. It works, but has a wow and flutter issue. I replaced the belt, it made no difference. Probably in the servo generator circuitry then.
I don't recall it being connected to power when a brown out or surge occurred.


Post# 954406 , Reply# 47   8/24/2017 at 20:06 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        
Techniques model SL220

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Techniques model SL220. It works, but has a wow and flutter issue.

 

It is possible that cleaning the pitch control with some electronic contact cleaner will fix the problem. I know of two Technics direct drive turntables that benefited from this treatment.




This post was last edited 08/24/2017 at 20:11
Post# 954462 , Reply# 48   8/25/2017 at 11:03 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Thank's John!

I don't remember if I tried that, but I will. I've had it since 1979.
I didn't use it for a long time. It has been in the same covered, but not dust proof cabinet for years and years.
I have many old LP's. I even have a Pickering cartridge, and an Audio Technica each in their own head shell.


Post# 954464 , Reply# 49   8/25/2017 at 12:25 by brucelucenta (Italy)        

I still like Elac Miracord better. They will let you stack as many as 12 albums or 45's. Yeah, I know you aren't supposed to do that, but I like to and have a longer playing experience without having to change the record manually.

Post# 954466 , Reply# 50   8/25/2017 at 12:44 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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Twelve records?!? That seems like almost too many. One audiophile complaint with changers is that the cartridge setup can only be right for one record in the stack--and so the more records there are, the more deviation one will have.

 

That said, I have heard others comment favorably about Elac Miracords. I recall one person in the modern era talking about them--for him--being better turntables than Duals. I recall another forum comment about one person who ran one when new/fairly new in college for hours a day with zero problems.

 

The one problem with Miracords is that there appears to be more of limited supply of parts out there.

 

As for changers, those generally reviled in audiophile circles. But it's interesting that I saw one post by an audiophile who used a changer for background just because it was more convenient. He used cheap, easily replaceable records IIRC so if the changer was hard on them there would be a smaller loss.


Post# 954467 , Reply# 51   8/25/2017 at 12:50 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture

I have to say that I've not been bothered personally with changing records. Manually actually works well for me in that I can change to whatever is the whim of the moment, rather than being locked on decision I made, say, 3 hours ago...

 

I actually prefer fully manual turntables, too. There are audiophile arguments that can be made--and have been made--such as "every dollar goes to performance". But the cold, hard practical issue for me is that if I return the arm manually, I have the arm lift up, and I know for certain it is up. If the turntable does it, the arm lift is down...and there is the risk that I won't be thinking, and casually drop the cartridge down onto the next record. (Even turntables that are fully automatic are not immune, since there are many times when I want to play a specific track, which means manually positioning the arm.)


Post# 954632 , Reply# 52   8/26/2017 at 15:26 by ovrphil (N.Atlanta / Georgia )        
Whirlpool Garrard link

ovrphil's profile picture
Meanwhile, would anyone know if Allen moved his Garrard website link or just hung it up altogether? Thanks.

I have to say, even though I just got the '65 Fisher C.E.VIII, the Miracord is nice. I like the push button feature and it is so smooth.


Post# 956283 , Reply# 53   9/5/2017 at 14:45 by ovrphil (N.Atlanta / Georgia )        
Website archive found

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To answer my own question and for anyone who wanted to know.....here's a link ,not maintained by Whircool, but it's still a useful resource. Some links are missing.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO ovrphil's LINK


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