Thread Number: 58157  /  Tag: Modern Dishwashers
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Post# 806602   1/29/2015 at 13:25 (3,346 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Post# 806604 , Reply# 1   1/29/2015 at 13:45 (3,346 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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And check out the link reviewed.com used for "some of the earliest dishwashers"!

Post# 806605 , Reply# 2   1/29/2015 at 13:58 (3,346 days old) by revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        

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Oooh just think.... you can pull up a chair, sit there and watch at the water alternate between spraying *cough* out of the upper and lower wash arms (or the "turbo zone" in back) for hours... and hours.... and hours.... and hours....... 

 

The upper end model is $2000+ ?!?!?!?!?!   For a dishwasher??

 

Kevin


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Post# 806609 , Reply# 3   1/29/2015 at 14:45 (3,346 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
What?

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And no KNOCK-TO-OPEN feature. Please....

Malcolm


Post# 806616 , Reply# 4   1/29/2015 at 15:41 (3,346 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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But I bet the upper rack wont rotate like in one my dishwashers that has a window ;-D






Post# 806631 , Reply# 5   1/29/2015 at 19:06 (3,346 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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I'd sent  a private note to Robert about this on Tuesday.  Imitation is the greatest form of flattery. 


Post# 806640 , Reply# 6   1/29/2015 at 19:43 (3,346 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        
Oh, I'm on board.

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I'm sorry, a dishwasher with a window is worth every penny.

Post# 806654 , Reply# 7   1/29/2015 at 21:58 (3,346 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        

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I like it, then again I'm easily distracted by shiny things also. 

Since my Kitchenaid is less than two years old, I guess I will either have to continue not seeing it wash, or cut a hole it it myself.  I better do the former. 


Post# 806678 , Reply# 8   1/30/2015 at 05:36 (3,345 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

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Oh jeez, I thought you meant MICROSOFT windows. That would NEVER work.

Post# 806686 , Reply# 9   1/30/2015 at 06:38 (3,345 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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I'm going to start saving my dimes and nickels right now. Third rack for cutlery, single rack wash option (which I use quite a lot) and a window?! Come to papa!

Post# 806689 , Reply# 10   1/30/2015 at 07:07 (3,345 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Tinting?

mrb627's profile picture
Window looks very darkly tinted. Wonder why they insist on doing this?

Malcolm


Post# 806703 , Reply# 11   1/30/2015 at 08:40 (3,345 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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The design of the window fits in with the new design scheme of KitchenAid's ovens. I guess the window is tinted because most people don't want to see dirt and stuff running down the door before a wash cycle. The are LEDs illuminating the interior but, now that I think of it, how would one activate the lights with the control panel hidden? Maybe you have to open the door during the cycle, press Light On, and it'll turn off automatically after some time as it does on washers and dryers.

Like Frigi, I like the idea of the window... just not thrilled about the 105F wash temp (unless you extend the cycle by about an hour using Hi Temp or Sani) and the longish cycles.

New design scheme:


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Post# 806705 , Reply# 12   1/30/2015 at 08:46 (3,345 days old) by whitetub (Montreal, Canada)        

I guess you can always use a powerful flashlight to look inside.

Post# 806709 , Reply# 13   1/30/2015 at 09:17 (3,345 days old) by djs32 ()        

I wonder if the windows on these will fair better than the ones on the Electrolux machines. I acquired one of them in a house I bought, and while it was a decent machine the window was a gimmick at best, and when it was a few years old the window cracked. Electrolux did, at least, offer to contribute to replacement of it, though they were at a loss to what had happened.

These ones look nice, but I've never entirely seen the point of being able to see into a modern machine - they're just not that interesting compared to older more powerful ones. My current house came with an electronic Zanussi that's at least 20 years old, if not a bit older, and works very well and very quickly.


Post# 806713 , Reply# 14   1/30/2015 at 09:21 (3,345 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        


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I agree. I think the window is just going to make for a lot of service calls, aka, my machine doesn't appear to be spraying with enough pressure. And/Or, the arms are not working together.

Eventually, the glass will get etched enough that the customer cannot see into the machine at all, and the service call problem will solve itself.

Malcolm


Post# 806776 , Reply# 15   1/30/2015 at 17:47 (3,345 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Post# 806778 , Reply# 16   1/30/2015 at 18:24 (3,345 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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The video does say you cannot turn on the light and watch your dishes get clean.  Then it's useless for me!!! No better than any other modern dishwasher.   Also is stated that wash arm is motorized/geared and doesn't use water pressure make it revolve.  I hate to say it, but those racks' sides to me are reminiscent of the Hobart commercial dishwasher racks. 


Post# 806808 , Reply# 17   1/31/2015 at 00:47 (3,345 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Can't turn the light on so you can watch the machine work----Guess they have something to hide-KA doesn't want you to see the feeble wash action of this new machine!They don't want you to watch your dishes being sprinkled!

Post# 806809 , Reply# 18   1/31/2015 at 00:57 (3,345 days old) by A440 ()        

So Sad.

 


Post# 806819 , Reply# 19   1/31/2015 at 04:30 (3,344 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

First: I fu**ing love these racks. They just look amazing in my opinion.
Second: The spray system somehow looks awasome. Don't know why, but it looks somewhat interesting.
Third: No light during wash? I guess we could work arround that, can't we? ;)


Post# 806820 , Reply# 20   1/31/2015 at 04:53 (3,344 days old) by Chetlaham (United States)        

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Looks like I am going to have to buy a new dishwasher ;)

Post# 806830 , Reply# 21   1/31/2015 at 06:07 (3,344 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Tub Light

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comes on when the dishes are clean?

I didn't see any rotatory arm under the glass rack either?


Malcolm


Post# 806832 , Reply# 22   1/31/2015 at 06:25 (3,344 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

There is one under the middle basket. You can breefly spy it when he shows the bottle wash jet.

Post# 806838 , Reply# 23   1/31/2015 at 07:07 (3,344 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Bob--- I thought the same thing! The new KithenAid's racks do remind one of the dish racks for a commercial Hobart machine.

As for the lack of vintage GE/KitchenAid water action, that doesn't bother me a bit. New machines, with their tiny motors and pumps, aren't going to create a hurricane-in-a-box. As long as the load emerges clean, I don't mind if the water show is underwhelming. Of course we pay for the water / energy savings and super-quiet operation of new machines with longer cycles.


Post# 806839 , Reply# 24   1/31/2015 at 07:09 (3,344 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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But Eugene, what about not being able to have the lights on while it's washing?  A huge disappointment. 


Post# 806845 , Reply# 25   1/31/2015 at 07:41 (3,344 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Kinda disappointing that you have to throw waterproof LEDs in there to see it wash. No too thrilled about the water barely hitting the top of the tub - am used to more. Besides, look at the power of the ProScrub. It only washes half of the dish, so what's the point?






Post# 806846 , Reply# 26   1/31/2015 at 07:46 (3,344 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Bob---Oh, definitely, that's a disappointment, and it would be a deal-breaker for me in a washing machine. Don't think it would stop me from buying this KitchenAid, though. Not that I'm in the market, being very happy with my year-old GE. Hopefully it lasts at least a few more years, LOL!

Alex---I've never understood the lure of the Pro-Scrub feature. Both my LG and GE dishwashers have had no problem cleaning baked-on food from cookware without it.


Post# 806876 , Reply# 27   1/31/2015 at 11:28 (3,344 days old) by appnut (TX)        
Pro-Scrub "jets"

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Alex, the Kenmore Elite versions of this feature, the nozzles actually rotate and do cover baking dishes such as that very well.  It was a design feature exclusive for Sears.  I don't use the feature all that often, but when I do, I've generally been pleased and actually sometimes surprised. 


Post# 807036 , Reply# 28   2/1/2015 at 10:00 (3,343 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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I recently saw a timelaspe video of Kenmore's Turbo Zone and, quite frankly, it also only washed the lower half of the glass dish - the upper part of it was basically cleaned because the lasagna eventually slid off. But it was clean in the end. I saw a demo of the Euro equivalent and it blew water to the top of the tub.

 

Speaking of dishwashers with windows: Brastemp sells smaller dishwashers with windows in Brasil, as does Electrolux. Japan has its own versions as well.

 

 


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Post# 807313 , Reply# 29   2/2/2015 at 14:05 (3,342 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
Pro Scrub jets

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The Pro-Scrub jets in the back of my dishwasher are stationary. I know some of the other Whirlpool sourced machines have rotary, but KA's remain stationary

Post# 807315 , Reply# 30   2/2/2015 at 14:13 (3,342 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

Can you tell when these jets are engaged? Does the machine make any different sound or can you hear the water hitting the pans? I would think water hitting stainless steel or light aluminum pans at close range might make some sound.

Post# 807326 , Reply# 31   2/2/2015 at 15:14 (3,342 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
I have listened before

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To tell the truth the machine itself is so dern quiet that you have to strain at the vent to hear much at all.
You can tell when it switches from to the Pro-Scrub jets because you can hear the arm for the upper rack quit swishing by.

Other than that, and since I have only used it on Corningware cooking dishes, I don't hear much difference. Honestly, since you have to face the dish to the back and tilt it downward taking up two rows of tines, so that it get sprayed by the lower spray arms, I don't notice that much difference, and would take up about the same amount of room if I just put it face down in the lower rack Poof-done.


Post# 807329 , Reply# 32   2/2/2015 at 15:42 (3,342 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        
Disappointing...

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appears to me the internal workings are just something else to tear up or malfunction. I prefer brute force water pressure...guess I'll have to step up my search for an older KA or another Jetclean to keep running...or order some spare parts while they still have them available for the current one.

I wonder if there is any way for us to re-engineer some of these new machines with stronger pumps? I may have to find one on craigslist that someone is throwing out (already) and fiddle with it.


Post# 807340 , Reply# 33   2/2/2015 at 16:18 (3,342 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
ooo

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I wanna play with it, then alter it !!

 

 


Post# 807367 , Reply# 34   2/2/2015 at 19:10 (3,342 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
Oh I am not knocking the KA

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It does a great job, just question if the Pro-scrub is much more than a gimick.


Post# 807374 , Reply# 35   2/2/2015 at 19:42 (3,342 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
New Kitchenaid Dishwasers

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Whirlpool STILL builds the best DWs in the world and builds more DWs than any other appliance maker as well.

 

I am looking forward to using one these my self, the biggest genius part of this new DW is the pump and filter system.

 

John L.


Post# 807375 , Reply# 36   2/2/2015 at 19:45 (3,342 days old) by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada)        

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My Kitchen Aid had the pro scrub feature. It worked well on casserole dishes with baked on food. I just put the dish in the very last row and made sure it was propped up vertical.

Gary


Post# 807379 , Reply# 37   2/2/2015 at 20:18 (3,342 days old) by appnut (TX)        
An answer to Jerrod's question

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My Kenmore Elite is almost 8 years old, thus it doesn't alternate between upper and lower wash arms.  I can tell a noticeable difference when the rear jets come one.  The upper wash arm ceases to turn as all "that" water is directed to the jets.  On all cycles they operate for 4 minutes during the pre wash.  I've always used the option on Pots & Pans, except one time on Normal.  On normal cycle, it operated for about 2 minutes and then another period of about 5 to 8 minutes and that was it.  I thought, why bother and never used Normal again for Turbo Zone.  On Pots & Pans it operates for about 5 minutes early during the main wash and then later toward the end of the main wash for about 17 minutes.  Have never used Turbo Zone of Smart Wash. 


Post# 807401 , Reply# 38   2/3/2015 at 00:42 (3,342 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

The video shows its a "power sprinkle" machine.Buy an OLDER KA machine andn get some REAL cleaning action--and less time.Screw the water use and power use.I want my dishes WASHED-NOT sprinkled in less time.Time is more valueable to me than the water or power useage.Just as well you CAN'T see the "power Piddle" cleaning action of that new KA machine-or is it WP?

Post# 807419 , Reply# 39   2/3/2015 at 03:48 (3,341 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Imagine

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The service calls that will come from people complaining the lights don't come on during washing. Wonder how many will be returned? At $2K, it would piss me off if it didn't perform as expected...

Malcolm


Post# 807428 , Reply# 40   2/3/2015 at 06:30 (3,341 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

When you turn it on the light inside should turn on like the radio's dial light in Christine.

Post# 810627 , Reply# 41   2/22/2015 at 13:14 (3,322 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
Manual now online

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Post# 810634 , Reply# 42   2/22/2015 at 13:58 (3,322 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Rinse only

8.1 l for a 15 minute rinse? Are you kidding?

Post# 810650 , Reply# 43   2/22/2015 at 15:39 (3,322 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        
Thanks for posting links to manual but boy

The cycle times are just something else.

So for baked on soil the max time would be 3 hours 59 minutes - ok 4 hours. Except that if you look down further in the manual you see that if you use the hi temp option it will add more time and if you add the pro scrub option that will add 30 to 40 minutes more. Maybe I am not understanding that correctly.

There is an express cycle which is good and it lasts up to 62 minutes but the manual says to add the pro dry option for best performance and this option increases the time 32 minutes. So a bit over 1 hour and a half - not too bad but 5 gallons of water.

One thing I really don't understand is the min max times. I don't understand this because there only seems to be one one soil sensing cycle so I understand increasing time for more soil, but the rest of the cycles don't have this, so what is causing a min-max time?

The manual does explain more time is required for energy efficiency but then tells you to run hot water to the machine. You pay before it goes in or you pay after it goes in. Most people don't have my situation of having to run 2 gallons of water to the sink before getting hot water, but given that I would rather pay to heat cold water in the machine than do this so having this machine would most likely be no savings for me.

I note that the tough baked on food cycle takes 4 hours - even more if I add hi temp or pro dry options. The last time I ran my cheese cycle(burned on cheese casserole) it took 2 hours 40 minutes - that was with incoming water of 63F so I am a bit bummed at the time this would take even after running hot water to the machine. I mean over half of a work day to wash heavy soiled dishes?

It's seems we move forward - we move backward.

Anyone know what the projected lifespan of this Dw is and how much it costs?







Post# 810656 , Reply# 44   2/22/2015 at 16:11 (3,322 days old) by washer111 ()        

If you heat your water with anything but electricity, running probably saving something. I run about 1.5 gallons on average each cycle, and still see moderate savings in electricity.

Post# 810687 , Reply# 45   2/22/2015 at 19:37 (3,322 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
"anybody know how much it costs?"

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KDTM804ESS - MSRP $2,049
KDTM384ESS - MSRP $1,249


Post# 810696 , Reply# 46   2/22/2015 at 21:10 (3,322 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

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The sensors in Whirlpool machines are used throughout all cycles besides the Quick/Express and of course Rinse & Hold cycles. The Min-Max times are just that: the minimum time the cycle will run, and vice versa. The times are all measured by algorithms depending on the readouts from the optical sensor at certain points throughout the cycle. At the beginning, a low soil reading could progress the prewash straight into the main wash, and likewise a heavy soil reading can add prewashes and prerinses, add time to the main wash, and add rinses as well. The sensor usually activates in the first rinse, and then calibrates in the final rinse.


Post# 810697 , Reply# 47   2/22/2015 at 21:35 (3,322 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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It also says adding multiple options, such as high-temp & sani-rinse, are not cumulative. 


Post# 810704 , Reply# 48   2/22/2015 at 23:20 (3,322 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
Re vintage Kitchen Aid...

Kitched Aid had a magazine ad in the early 60s of one of their top loading portables running with the lid open, water shooting 10 to 15 feet in the air!!!!I bet a new one wouldn't reach 10 to 12 inches!!! What a joke!,,Just like washing clothes, you have to use water to wash, no matter if the government likes for you to or not!

Post# 810738 , Reply# 49   2/23/2015 at 07:57 (3,321 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Hmmm...

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I skimmed the manual. No mention of tub light (when or how it works)
No mention of the purpose of the window either.

Geared whirly-gig wash-o-copter thingy might prove to be a source of failure.

Any other makes on the market with a motorized wash arm drive?

Malcolm


Post# 810739 , Reply# 50   2/23/2015 at 08:08 (3,321 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Only the WaterWall comes to my mind. All others are still driven by water pressure. But isn't the Kenmore or Whirlpool with these adjusting sprays geared?

Post# 810752 , Reply# 51   2/23/2015 at 10:42 (3,321 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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The video above mentioned that the light will come on when the door is open and as a cycle done indicator. Kenmore's 360 PowerWash spray arm uses the same motor for the lower arm.

Post# 810762 , Reply# 52   2/23/2015 at 11:54 (3,321 days old) by washman (o)        
looks like a joke to me

as is the case with most eco-sanctioned machines these days.

When my eco-approved GE switches to the top arm (after multiple starts/stops) you can barely hear the water hitting the machine or the dishes.

The new digs have a Frigidare. I suppose I'll see how well it works. Wonder if I am committed to using a specific brand of detergent in it?


Post# 812481 , Reply# 53   3/5/2015 at 19:39 (3,311 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        
Another inside view of "new" KitchenAids

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Found this while checking out some of Reviewed.com's other videos.

I find myself hating this WP design less and less as videos like this surface, but still, it's definitely no PowerClean or Voyager, and most certainly not a Hobart. It is nice to see the upper shower arm spinning so energetically, and the spray coming from the arms isn't terrible either, though with the rotation speeds I can see why the ridiculous cycle times are necessary.

The KitchenAid looks much different in operation than the actual WP machines, which is most likely because of the slightly larger pump they put into the KA's. The spray in the WP's, while not terrible, is still anemic in comparison.

 

 

 



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