Thread Number: 59078  /  Tag: Modern Dryers
Whirlpool HybridCare Dryer Review
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Post# 816422   3/29/2015 at 13:41 (3,287 days old) by Pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)        

pulsator's profile picture

I am an employee of Whirlpool Corporation and these are my personal opinions which do not reflect the opinion of Whirlpool Corporation.

 

After a very lucky raffle at work, I got one of these beauties delivered straight from the factory to my basement! I am absolutely in love with this machine! Being a Heat Pump dryer, there are some expected changes in how it's used and how it operates.

 

1) It does take longer than a regular vented dryer. Previously, I dried this very load of towels in my vented electric dryer on low heat and it would take about 1 hour and 30 minutes to fully dry the load. The HybridCare, in Eco Mode takes about 3 hours and 26 minutes to dry this load of towels. The load consists of 7 thick bath towels and 7 thick hand towels. It's a full load in my 4.5 cubic foot Fusion-Oasis washer. Most other loads take less than two hours on Eco Mode. I could make the dryer run faster by using Balanced Mode or Speed Mode... But I prefer the lower temperatures of Eco Mode. Even on the high heat setting, in Eco Mode, the dryer still runs cooler than the low heat setting on my vented dryer.

 

2) There are 2 filters to clean. The main filter which I clean after each load and the HybridCare filter located on the bottom front right corner. That one only needs to be cleaned every 5 loads or so. The dryer will tell me when it needs to be cleaned.

 

I put together a quick video showing the machine's operation... It is slightly louder than a regular vented dryer, but the sound level varies depending on what it's doing. There are multiple fans (at least 2, but there may be more... I'm not sure) that do different things. The main fan seems to be attached to the motor that turns the drum like a normal dryer but it also seems to move more air (possibly spinning faster?) while it's running. There is a fan on the back of the machine near the bottom, about where you'd expect a vent to be on a regular dryer. I'm not entirely sure what this one does. It turns on and off periodically throughout the cycle and blows air out of the back of the unit. I can also hear the compressor come on once the dryer has heated up. The compressor running is hard to pick up, it's pretty quiet. The main blower and the fan on the back are the most prominent sounds from the machine. Certainly not unpleasantly loud.

 

I'm thinking of getting some cheapy towels and maybe some cheapy t-shirts to do some comparisons between Eco Mode and Speed Mode. I don't want to put any of my stuff through the Speed Mode or Balanced Mode because I like drying everything on really low temps. I've never used anything above low heat on any dryer for almost as long as I can remember.

 

I'd recommend cranking up the quality of the video, you can see the console more clearly. At 0:42 you can hear the compressor (barely) and the main blower. The fan at the back is not running at this point in the cycle (though it did come on when the dryer first started running). At 1:03 the compressor has shut off and the fan at the back is running again.



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Post# 816435 , Reply# 1   3/29/2015 at 14:41 (3,287 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Wow, 3:26 is quite a time, even for a heatpump dryer. Our EU Whirlpool hearpump dryer barley ever takes longer than 2 1/2h, maybe 3 at the most. But knowing the approximate temperatures in a vented dryer, this thing seems to run pretty darn cold by your description. Can you name any numbers temperature wise?

Post# 816440 , Reply# 2   3/29/2015 at 14:59 (3,287 days old) by Pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)        

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According to Reviewed.com, on the Normal cycle (medium heat) "Temperatures on the Speed, Balanced, and Eco settings peaked at just 135.4°F (one hour and 9 minutes), 127.7°F (one hour and 18 minutes), and 118.8°F (one hour and 28 minutes), respectively."

 

I'm not sure about temps on the Towels cycle.


Post# 816443 , Reply# 3   3/29/2015 at 15:23 (3,287 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Sounds about equal to the EU system...

Post# 816444 , Reply# 4   3/29/2015 at 15:29 (3,287 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Wow

mrb627's profile picture
I guess you would have to wash a load of clothes each day with those times.
I average six to ten loads of laundry done over a weekend. That would equal almost nonstop clothes drying from Saturday morning to Sunday afternoon. YIKES!

Malcolm


Post# 816457 , Reply# 5   3/29/2015 at 16:59 (3,287 days old) by Imperial70 (MA USA)        
Malcom brings up a very good point

We may have to change our washday habits.  I usually do my laundry on weekend.  But I've already started spacing things out throughout the week.  The new dryer seems very tempting. However, I have a gas speed queen right now so it would be hard to justify going to electric dryer.

 

 


Post# 816462 , Reply# 6   3/29/2015 at 17:40 (3,287 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
Very interesting, Jamie. Would you post some pics of the lower filter?

WP does have some sleek styling - very nice!


Post# 816471 , Reply# 7   3/29/2015 at 19:10 (3,287 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)        
Different options

mielerod69's profile picture
I would be interesting to see the drying times when you select the different modes for the same load. An average load in my Miele heat pump takes around 90 minutes.

Post# 816473 , Reply# 8   3/29/2015 at 19:25 (3,287 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)        

kenmoreguy89's profile picture

How can you love a 3.26 hour long dryer? My gas speed queen would take no more than 40 minutes for a load like that out of the Filter-flo, and you also spind dried them before... well yes it was the eco cycle not the speed or balanced..but man 3 and half hours for a load of spind dried towels? foot-in-mouth
I think that if I spin dryed my towels it would take like 15 minutes in the Queen.
I don't know the consumption but how much is it supposed to save? How many watts per hour does it use in that cycle?  It would be nice to know...do they make Plug-in meters for 240 volt US plugs?
I see it does also have a water inlet? what is that for?
In any ways I think I couldn't and wouldn't want to deal with a dryer like that, I put a cross over EU heat pump time ago also, this sounds no different, forget love it....but as they say world is beautiful because is varied....good they made it to satisfy those who could love it as you do, and those who cannot vent outside,  but they just don't have to dare make it kind of "mandatory" like the washers or we might have a HUGE problem...
I'll stick to gas...and I think I'll never leave the vented.
Thank you for your honest review.




This post was last edited 03/29/2015 at 19:54
Post# 816479 , Reply# 9   3/29/2015 at 19:58 (3,287 days old) by Pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)        

pulsator's profile picture
Kenmoreguy, i'd be interested to see how much power it uses as well! The water connection is actually for the drain.

Greg, here are some pics of the HybridCare filter:


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Post# 816480 , Reply# 10   3/29/2015 at 20:01 (3,287 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)        

kenmoreguy89's profile picture

That looked like an inlet...Thanks.


Post# 816534 , Reply# 11   3/30/2015 at 10:03 (3,286 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
New WP Heat Pump Dryer

combo52's profile picture

Thanks for posting this Jamie, I can't wait to get my hands on one of these machines and take it apart.

 

I would be very interested in how much power it takes to dry the same load as your regular electric dryer. We have an electric meter hooked up at our shop so we can do comparisons of power usage, it should be easy for you to get an old electric meter for this purpose, contact me if you need help doing this.

 

Also if the dryer is in an area where you can check the starting room temperature and humidity and then compare the readings after a load is dried this would also be interesting data. Also how much ventilation does WP suggest for the area where the dryer will be installed, we see a lot of dryers installed in closets and I was wondering if this will cause any problems.

 

I think we will sell a lot of these dryers for buildings where in is impossible to vent a regular dryer and some customers will also be interested because of energy savings coupled with utility incentives.


Post# 816656 , Reply# 12   3/31/2015 at 01:47 (3,286 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        

kb0nes's profile picture
Jamie, great review, neat to hear some early word on this interesting machine. Please share any further testing and first hand knowledge as time allows.

A machine like this intrigues me as I am actively working to minimize venting in my home. When it is well below zero here in MN I refuse to run the dryer (hot humid days in the Summer are the same) The loss of all the conditioned air in the home is significant. Of course I could consider an all electric dryer and just vent it indoors in the Winter, but the humidity load may be too great.

I too am curious what the kwh comparison would be compared to the standard all electric vented dryer. My hunch is that total energy consumption of a vented gas dryer is likely lower for a given cycle. But when the home environmental losses of a vented machine are considered, it may be different.


Post# 816657 , Reply# 13   3/31/2015 at 01:53 (3,286 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

3.5 hrs to dry a load???THIS IS TOO LONG!Time is an important resource to me-more so than power or water.Seems like the clothes washing and dishwashing is regressing-thought the idea of these machines was to SAVE time--not WASTE it.Stick with my GE electric dryer!If heatpump dryers could be made to work faster-then I would consider it.This is just too slow to be of use.You may get your things dried faster by hanging them outside!

Post# 816662 , Reply# 14   3/31/2015 at 08:01 (3,285 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
3.5 Hour Tumble Time

mrb627's profile picture
What do you suppose the additional wear on the fabric will be from the extra tumbling?

I do see a re-birth of the clothesline coming soon! Probably a good thing, too!!

Malcolm


Post# 816671 , Reply# 15   3/31/2015 at 08:39 (3,285 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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I read that this dryer uses up to 73% less energy than a conventional electric dryer. Of course, there's a fine print to that: "Compared to pre-2004 traditional dryers, when paired with a matching washer, normal cycle, electric only."

 

Anyway, considering the run time, this must be one efficient dryer. When used on the Eco setting, Miele's most efficient dryer takes 3:26 hrs to remove 21 cups of water from the load - versus the 12.5 cups that the HybridCare extracted in the same time. And the Miele is already in the second highest efficiency tier.

 

The fan at the rear of the dryer is a cooling fan, by the way. It prevents the heat pump from overheating.


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Post# 816688 , Reply# 16   3/31/2015 at 10:47 (3,285 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
@mrb627

I found that, though our dryer now takes about twice as long, there is neither more or less lint per load on average.
I even remeber our test magazine having a statement that only 10% of overall lint caught during a drying cycle is caused by the dryer it self.


Post# 816967 , Reply# 17   4/1/2015 at 18:17 (3,284 days old) by washdaddy (Baltimore)        

The fact that it takes over 3 hours to dry some loads and over an hour to wash them in todays machines...it would be impossible for one that is doing laundry for a family of four or more to completely do it in one day. Five hours to complete a load of clothing is absolutely ridiculous. A family that goes thru lots of laundry would have to do laundry every day just to stay on top of it.

I will gladly stay with something older that uses gas or electric to complete everything until they can come up with something that is also more time efficient!

Let them come up with something that does that and then everyone can start singing praises about the new wonders of laundry. At the rate they are going you'll have to put it in to wash at sunrise, maybe switch it to the dryer for lunch and hope that it's dry by nightfall.



Post# 816970 , Reply# 18   4/1/2015 at 18:45 (3,284 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Everytime a debate about washing and drying times comes up, I just can think about the TOL Bosch set in terms of energy use in Germany.
Washing of 8kg laundry at "140"°F (actually, you'd get closer to 90°F, if even) takes 5 hours on the spot. But it only uses 0.45kWh.
The dryer takes 184 minutes (3 hours and 4 minutes) and uses 1.12kWh for the exact same load right out of the washer..
So, pretty much 8 hours to wash and dry a load of laundry. And this is not even a heavy towels load, this is just a load of standard cottons.
What brings me to another point: Towels generally take longer to dry. So, I guess, for a usual mixed load, 2 hours are more likely. But it would be nice to get a confirmation about that by the original poster. (I'm actually quite curious about that so I can compare this to EU dryers.)
And having used a heatpumpdryer 8 hours straight today (the dryer ran from 12 till 8 with only small loading and unloading pauses), I was abled to dry 1 big pillow, one comforter, and 4 sets of bedding (pillowcase, sheet and duvet cover) splitted into 5 loads. The (really voluminous) pillow alone took 3h total, the duvet (pretty thin) about an hour and a half. So, the 3 bedding loads took about 3 1/2h to dry completly, which is about on level with our old condenser dryer.



Post# 816972 , Reply# 19   4/1/2015 at 19:04 (3,284 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
Not good

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this is not good for me aspecaly since laundry is on the second floor i would much rather have an electric convental dryer and the more time the dryer takes to dry a load this is not good in term of the electric bill the washer dryer in the fowllowing is much better 1 the washer is a much better cleaner than any wash plate topload model or front load model and the dryer is more energy conservative

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Post# 816978 , Reply# 20   4/1/2015 at 19:34 (3,284 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

beekeyknee's profile picture
Congratulations on your win and they are nice looking machines, but... Good Heavens!
An hour and 30 min. or 3 hours and 26 min. to dry a load of towels? My Maytag will dry anything in 40 min. or less. Do you enjoy spending that much time fiddling with laundry?


Post# 816982 , Reply# 21   4/1/2015 at 19:57 (3,284 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

murando531's profile picture

I'm probably one of the few people that wouldn't mind the longer running times. I usually use the low heat setting on my year old Oasis dryer, and with a full load of towels it runs around 1:20. Depending on which washer spun them out, it could be less time with the Bravos' high spin speed. I've always been concerned with the intense heat of even the low setting being too strong, and if there were a lower setting I'd use it. Most of the loads being dried are done at night, especially in the summer heat, and half the time I end up going to bed before it's done anyway. If the dryer's only option were the Eco-mode, it could be frustrating if I needed something dried quickly, but because the machine gives the choice between traditional drying or condensing drying, or a mix, I'd be the one always using the gentle eco mode. I care for my clothes a lot so lower heat is a plus to me.


Post# 816994 , Reply# 22   4/1/2015 at 21:00 (3,284 days old) by Pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)        

pulsator's profile picture

A mixed load of clothes (3/4 full in my Oasis) generally take about an hour and 45 minutes to dry on Eco Mode in this dryer. At some point I will do some comparison testing of identical loads dried on Eco Mode vs Speed Mode. I highly doubt this dryer uses less power than a gas dryer, after all, a gas dryer only uses power to run the blower, tumble, and ignite the flame. This dryer uses less power than an electric dryer.

 

As for tumbling, I've actually noticed the opposite of what you'd expect, despite having a much finer lint screen, this dryer seems to accumulate less lint than my old top filter Whirlpool dryer.

 

As I've said previously, I use low heat for EVERYTHING. Towels will take an hour and a half to dry in a regular vented dryer for me. They come out softer that way and the lower heat is far less damaging. Aside from towel loads, this dryer doesn't take too much longer than what I'm used to with my old dryer. If I wanted it to take the same amount of time, I could, by putting it on Speed Mode. But I prefer Eco Mode and am happy to live with the longer dry times.


Post# 817014 , Reply# 23   4/2/2015 at 00:00 (3,284 days old) by A440 ()        
Very Cool Jamie!

That is one cool dryer!  If for anything....it is a work of art as far as dryers in the USA right now.

It would be interesting to do a full load of towels at Max everything just to see how long the drying time would be. 

I do think the big sale of this dryer is not efficiency but "non venting". 

I would love to know however how long a full load of towels would take at the "max" setting.  (Whatever that means for this dryer)

For instance I washed 14 large bath towels in my ancient HE3T this morning and dried them in my ancient HET Gas dryer.  It took 38 minutes for perfect drying. 

Savings wise I just wonder several things.  The cost of the dryer?  The amount of actual energy used to dry loads over the life of this unit.  I guess it all equals how long this dryer would have to be in service just to break even?

I would love to use it  just to figure these things out.  I would not like to pay for it however.

So on this note!  Yay Jamie!  Congrats on a nice free addition to you collection!

I do think it will go down in history.

Brent


Post# 817032 , Reply# 24   4/2/2015 at 03:58 (3,284 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Life Expectancy

mrb627's profile picture
I suspect that due to the mechanical complexity of this unit, the life span will be short compared to a standard dryer.

Lowered lint collection could be due to lowered air flow through the drum. Hopefully, the interior of the cabinet will remain lint free too.

Would be interested to know the weaknesses, most common points of failure, and the cost of replacement parts. Like the refrigerant module. Is it replaced as a single part and does it cost 900 bucks?

Malcolm





Post# 817044 , Reply# 25   4/2/2015 at 05:54 (3,284 days old) by repair-man (Pittsburgh PA)        
Life expectancy ?

Not just because of the mechanical complexity but the fact that it runs 2-3 times longer each load.

Post# 817050 , Reply# 26   4/2/2015 at 06:48 (3,283 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

I don't think the air flow is lower. At least here, these dryers were designed to have a way more efficent and stronger air flow. But compared to vented dryers, this might be different. And lint collection within the cabinet is limited to the lint the cooling fan sucks in. To get a somewhat efficent heating up in a reasonable time on the Eco mode, the system has to be suffeciently tightly sealed. For example, the EU energy label has to state condesation rates. Most heatpump dryers score 90% or higher. This means that, from all water that's been removed from the load, 90+% are collected.
The compressor units are indeed modular and only exchangable as one piece. And they are the most expensive part. But AFAIK these are not an overly common failure. The most problematic points in the EU designs were condenser units blocked with lint and fabric softner reidue, blocked condensation pumps and broken electronics.
And they are not mechanicly extensivley more complex. Parts added are the heatpump unit and the cooling fan as well as the condensation pump.


Post# 817054 , Reply# 27   4/2/2015 at 07:43 (3,283 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Heat-Pump Dryers

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It will be interesting to see how such long running times affect the life of the dryer, here in the US we have become use to dryers that commonly last 30 years or even longer. I would guess that the long running times could easily reduce the useful life in half of these dryers, which is more like what we see here with the imported dryers which don't come close to the life of good US dryers.

 

The long times and still considerable use of electricity really still make the case for a gas heated dryer, as Brent and I suggested the best use of these dryers will be for owners that do not have the option of a vented dryer and for people that do not mind very long drying cycles, most larger families will not be candidates for these dryers.

 

I do find it interesting that some of my customers also like drying their clothing at very low temperatures, someone will have to prove to me that it is better for your clothing to dry them twice as long at 120 F vs 160 F for 1/2 as long, I cannot ever recall ever ruining anything in a dryer in my life and as most people who know me can attest most of my clothing is so old and outdated fashion wise LOL, as most of it seems to last forever. One of my other big concerns about low temperature drying is you may lose the sanitizing effect on sheets, towels, underwear, socks, dish towels and on and on, this is one reason that I do not line dry clothing.


Post# 817060 , Reply# 28   4/2/2015 at 08:02 (3,283 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Low-temp drying

I guess it's less about lasting, but more about the feeling.
I feel that on towels: Our old Siemens dryed at 75°C (~170°F) on normal temp. Towels did feel kind of crisp. At 65°C (150°F, low temp on that dryer), they came out softer. In our heatpump dryer, they come out even softer.
Jeans had to be dried on low as they shrank pretty easy on the higher temperatures. And even then they shrank a bit.
Just try it yourself once: Dry a simmilar load on a high heat and a lower heat to compare them. You should feel the difference.
On sanitizing: Without opening the debate about its necessarity, 140°F (60°) are generally the border thats considered as the start of sanitisazion. So 30 minutes at 140° shouldn't make a big difference to 160°F. And especially the bacteria unfriendly enviroment of a dryer (hot, dry) should kill most of right away. And given you washed your laundry in a hot solution of detergent (which itself has a certain effect againts bacteria), I guess the really dry air in a heatpumpdryer cancels out some of the lower temp, especially with the longer drying time.


Post# 817148 , Reply# 29   4/2/2015 at 20:24 (3,283 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)        

I think Combo52 and A440 have it right. The non-venting feature is what will draw people in. This still needs a water inlet and drain like a conventional condensing dryer, correct? I know of some condensing dryers that have a jug for the condensate that the user empties once it's full.

There are a lot of people living in old buildings in cities in the northeast. Most of them (or at least all of my friends) would be willing to pay quite a bit for a dryer that required no venting and no water hook-ups, even if it meant filling a reservoir and emptying a condensate jug by hand. Even better would be if it could run on 120v. Yes, I know that using 120 instead of 240 would greatly increase already long run times. However, the fact remains that many buildings don't have 240 available.

I'm willing to bet there'd be a lot of people who'd love to have a dryer they could literally stick wherever. People hate laundromats and I think the industry as whole greatly underestimates what people would do or spend to avoid having to go. I can see it now: A combo in the kitchen and dryer put where it fits. Do your wash in the combo, put half the clothing into the separate dryer and let both do their drying thing. Who cares how long it takes!

Jim


Post# 817160 , Reply# 30   4/2/2015 at 20:58 (3,283 days old) by Pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)        

pulsator's profile picture
There is no water inlet with this dryer nor a water reservoir. The only hose coming from this dryer is a drain hose that the dryer pumps the condensed water out of and down the drain.

Post# 817682 , Reply# 31   4/6/2015 at 03:16 (3,280 days old) by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND)        

jkbff's profile picture
I'd love to hear feedback on the non eco mode (full power) on medium heat to dry towels or rags or something.

Post# 817708 , Reply# 32   4/6/2015 at 08:40 (3,279 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Hybrid Merger

mrb627's profile picture
They need to merge the hybrid dryer into a washer/dryer combo and it might be easier for the consumer to adjust. Doesn't seem like it would be all that difficult to do.

Malcolm


Post# 817718 , Reply# 33   4/6/2015 at 09:27 (3,279 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Well, it is complicated!

It is fairly complicated to do so. If you look at a standard W\D-combo, they are fairly tightly packed already.
Now you need to add a compressor to this all. The compressor is quite vibration sensitive, so it has to be mounted to the frame of the machine, but must not block the swinging-area of the tub.
You need 2 heatexchangers with a fairly big surface. Of course, they need to be located on top of the drum so no water enters them, which means the space on top is pretty much used by now.
So the compressor hast to go in the bottom of the machine, which means a pretty complicated pressurized pipeing job.
Then, you need a pretty effective filter to keep these fairly sensitive heatexchangers free of lint.
Because you dry at lower temperatures and the pretty complex air ducting, the fan needs to be a certain bit more powerfull as well.
Now the compressor has to be cooled as well. Another fan.
The condensated water needs to be drained from the cold heat exchanger.
And the thermistor sensing of residual moisture won't work any more either as you heat up to slow and work at to low temperatures. So, you need a nother sensor.
This all has to be wired and grounded, and the electronic control has to keep track of all the additional parts.
For me, this dosen't sound easy at all.
But, it has been done. In Japan, such units are standard. And E-Lux launched a version under the AEG brand here in the EU last year. They start at around 1200€, which is a pretty big pricetag for a washer dryer. Only Miele is more expensive (1600€ upwards).


Post# 817735 , Reply# 34   4/6/2015 at 11:11 (3,279 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
IMO

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It wouldn't be all that difficult to move all the drying functionality above the tub while all the WRS mechanicals stayed below the drum.

I think Electrolux has already done it.

Malcolm


Post# 817741 , Reply# 35   4/6/2015 at 12:03 (3,279 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture





Post# 817745 , Reply# 36   4/6/2015 at 12:20 (3,279 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
@mrb627

Yes, as I said, E-Lux did it already. However there is no way to put a 1kW compressor unit above a tub unit in a FL. The size of those compressors is comparable to one in a fridge.

Post# 817746 , Reply# 37   4/6/2015 at 12:35 (3,279 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Sub Zero

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Makes their refrigerators with the compressor above the unit. So, I don't think its an impossible task.

Malcolm


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Post# 817752 , Reply# 38   4/6/2015 at 12:58 (3,279 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

We are talking about washers. Sorry, but my post clearly states "a tub unit in a FL". So there was no talk about fridiges.
Of course you can change everything around so it would fit, but that would not only be inconvenient for the user of the washer (and I am only talking of washers), but would make the product even more expensive to build.
My teachers always say "Read, think, than write!" Took me long to learn, and I thought I would never be the one who has to quote this to someone else.


Post# 817761 , Reply# 39   4/6/2015 at 13:50 (3,279 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Compressor on a Fridge

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was stated by you. Not me. I posted a pic to display that a compressor on top of an appliance is not an impossible task.

Malcolm


Post# 817770 , Reply# 40   4/6/2015 at 14:56 (3,279 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

So you basicly confirmed what I said. I said "size of the compressor". So, you showed a fridge with the compressor on the top. Guestimating, the unit that contains the compressor is about, lets say, 5 inches high. So you need 5 inches of heigth clearence to install a compressor unit. Show me one modern FL that has 5 inches of clearence above its tub unit.
And, please, don't tell me what I wrote if you clearly could not just scroll up and read what I wrote. That post #34 is just 2 lines. It does not take much to read it and understand it, time and effort wise.


Post# 817787 , Reply# 41   4/6/2015 at 16:53 (3,279 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Assumptions

mrb627's profile picture
I don't think we are on the same page. A euro sized machine would not sell here. I am referring to a duet sized machine or larger. The uber sized machines on the market are near 30" wide and would make more sense. And clearly with the popularly of pedestals and the right height machines the GE offered, make the machine taller by default.

Malcolm


Post# 817791 , Reply# 42   4/6/2015 at 17:32 (3,279 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Yeah, but the compressor would still be situated at the bottom of the machine.

Post# 817797 , Reply# 43   4/6/2015 at 18:17 (3,279 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Compressor

mrb627's profile picture
Doesn't have to be on top, but COULD be...

Malcolm


Post# 817806 , Reply# 44   4/6/2015 at 19:53 (3,279 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Panasonic has a Japanese washer/dryer with the heat pump above the drum. It's 24 inches wide but taller than normal Euro units. And, of course, filled with all the techno gadgets one could think of...





Post# 817865 , Reply# 45   4/7/2015 at 07:28 (3,278 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)        

I love how at about 4:20 warm and hot water washes are extolled :-) I find that particularly interesting as last I heard Japan was rather more 'green' than the U.S.

A friend directed me to this link from The Daily Show:





I assume the figures cited at about 4:00 are correct as successful satires usually need to have accurate facts and figures. Given that, it seems that household water use in California is getting rather more attention than is deserves. Or is my perception skewed because I'm on the east coast?

Jim



CLICK HERE TO GO TO warmsecondrinse's LINK


Post# 817867 , Reply# 46   4/7/2015 at 07:58 (3,278 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Heat Pump Dryers and Combos

combo52's profile picture

To make a fast and efficient appliances these appliances will need to grow in size, the compressor and heat exchanger could be placed either in the top or bottom of the machine, I would probably place the compressor in the bottom and the heat exchanger in the top, the lines to connect the two are tiny and cheap to make [ all refrigerators do this ].

 

Since all dryers and combos are going to be front loading and are more convenient at a higher level anyway a permanent pedestal will be part of the machine. Now that FL washers are common around the world it is only logical that combination washer-dryers are coming, and making a heat pump unit part of the machine would have the added advantage of letting the HP heat the wash water using only 1/3 the amount of power as using an electric element to do the same.


Post# 817872 , Reply# 47   4/7/2015 at 08:43 (3,278 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)        
Back on topic.... apologies for the hijack.

Yeah, I think you're both envisioning 2 different machine sizes, hence the differing opinions on feasibility.

I agree that 30"/'uber-sized' units are the norm here in the U.S. However, people who are in the market for that sized unit are much more likely to have access to venting than those interested in euro/dishwasher/24"(61cm) unit.

People who're looking at euro-sized units generally are doing so because a regular sized unit is not an option. I submit there's a huge overlap in the population shopping for a euro unit and the population that doesn't have access to venting. IMO, there'd be far more potential sales with a ventless heat-pump 24" unit than a 30" one. Also, here in the U.S. 24" is a standard size for kitchen cabinetry. It's far more common to see raised counter height (for whatever reason) than it is to see the 24" width ignored..... at least in the kitchens I've seen.

I think in older cities there'd be a huge market for euro-sized heat-pump combos, even if they were taller.

The U.S. standard counter height of 36" is ridiculous. I'm only 185cm (6'1") but with my bad back and hips I find 36" painfully low... literally. Any kitchen I remodel for my own personal use will have a counter height of 40 or 42". I'll happily buy a tall 24" washer-dryer combo!

That 36" recommendation is outdated. See attached link:

www.wsj.com/articles/SB1111110570...

Jim




CLICK HERE TO GO TO warmsecondrinse's LINK


Post# 817917 , Reply# 48   4/7/2015 at 11:22 (3,278 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Washer-Dryer Sizes In The US

combo52's profile picture

All FL washers are just 27" wide [ not 30" ] in the US and this is also nearly standard for dryers as well.

 

No US built W&Ds will fit under a 36" high counter top any longer.  { yes I agree Jim that 36" high counters are a little low for me as well, but the US population is becoming shorter on average due to immigration, so don't expect to see higher counter-tops mandated any time soon ].

 

The market for European sized 24" Wide laundry appliances in the US is very small and shrinking, No US based manufacturer is building this size here and I dough they ever will, even the biggest laundry builder in the world only sells one Chinese built FL washer model here.

 

I can see a huge market for an approximately 4 foot high 27" wide combo, that uses a heat-pump for many reasons.

 

It would require no venting.

 

It would only require a cold water connection, electric power and a drain.

 

Because of the HP for water heating and clothes drying it would be by far the most efficient electric laundry possible, allowing the entire cost of $2000-3000 to be eligible for federal and local tax credits.

 

And best of all the shear convenience of a combo, no transferring laundry, no smelly washer, larger families could have two or more units and really large homes could have these units in more than one location.

 

They would make total sense, this after all this is the promise that the US appliance manufactures told us of in 1952 when Bendix introduced the worlds first Combination Washer-Dryer.


Post# 817931 , Reply# 49   4/7/2015 at 12:12 (3,278 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

You can't use the same heat-pump for heating the wash water and for drying. The water-heating heatpump would have to have a cold heatexchanger in the room air and a heat exchanger submerged\flowed by by water. And the heatpump would take an awefull long time to heat the water. Keep in mind, you need 4,2 kJ to heat 1l of water by 1k. Air only has about 1/4 of that.
The thing is, again, not that you could not put a heatpump into a standard sized 27" washer to make it a combo without modifying the cabinet. It is perfectly fine if you put it at the bottom of the machine.
The problem is that if you change the design of the cabinet of the washer, you would need a whole new production line. This would increase cost dramaticly.
Further, the price of such a unit would be closer to 3000$ rather that 2000$. Take the price of the full-sized LG combo, and than look at the price difference between the HybridCare dryer and a simmilar, standard dryer. Add that on top of the LG combo plus another few dollars because of it being harder to assamblem, and then you are doing real talk.
Going on, cycle time would be a major problem. One hour wash cycle for a 3/4 load. Ok so far. Now check how long the reviews on Amazon say the big LG combo needs to dry a load of laundry. Lets say, 3-4 hours. Now, as we saw, the heatpump technology takes about twice as long to dry a load of laundry. So one would end up with cycles of 6-8 hours, and that load wouldn't even be that big of a load.
Now, you could incorporate a traditional heater to speed up drying times. But this would push you to make it run at 240V, which again shrinks it target group dramaticly. (How many spaces do you know that only allow one 27" unit but have 240V service?)
In theory, everything is nice. But this will probably not happen anytime soon.


Post# 817966 , Reply# 50   4/7/2015 at 16:56 (3,278 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)        

Regarding counter height..... My stance is this: I'm only 6'1" which is not too terribly tall so if I hit my head on it or if I have to stoop to use it, IT IS TOO LOW! Period. And I am unanimous in that, to quote the esteemed Mrs. Slocum.

Henene brings up a good point. The target audience (which I maintain is underestimated) consists primarily of people living in older apartment buildings. They will most likely:

1. Have to put the washer in the kitchen
2. Will need to have dishwasher type hookups or attach the hose to the faucet
3. Will not have access to venting
4. Will have access to 120v, NOT 240.
5. MAY be able to stack as the older a building is, the higher ceilings tend to be.

This is why I maintain a combo with a separate 120v condenser dryer (which does not exist at the moment, but could easily) is the best alternative in a bad situation.

Jim


Post# 818238 , Reply# 51   4/9/2015 at 09:19 (3,276 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture











Post# 818242 , Reply# 52   4/9/2015 at 09:45 (3,276 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Interesting...

mrb627's profile picture
I hope these machines will continue to evolve and get faster and more economical to purchase.

Malcolm


Post# 818250 , Reply# 53   4/9/2015 at 10:03 (3,276 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        

kb0nes's profile picture
Yesterday I dropped in at my local independent appliance dealer (Eden Prairie Appliance) to see what they knew of this new WP hybrid dryer. They had heard of it but that was it, no brochures not even a photo. Have they started marketing these at all to the public or are they still in a "beta test" mode?

They did have four brand new Speed Queen (both FL and TL) electronic control models on the floor though. Neat to see those!


Post# 818265 , Reply# 54   4/9/2015 at 12:00 (3,276 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
The HybridCare is available at Sears and many other retailers. I think AjMadison started selling it at least a month or two ago.

Post# 818268 , Reply# 55   4/9/2015 at 12:39 (3,276 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

I still can't see using this over my natural gas vented dryer and I live in a city. I don't even want to use a conventional electric dryer. Why would anyone currently using a natural gas dryer want to use a HP dryer?

And now I see I have to pull the unit away from the wall once a month to vacuum the cooling fan? So I have to get help to pull this thing out away from the wall?

If you are living in a condo will you even have room for a washer/dryer this large?

Will see what happens but this dryer technology is not for me at this time.


Post# 818281 , Reply# 56   4/9/2015 at 13:19 (3,276 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Cooling Fan Cleaning...

mrb627's profile picture
Yeah. I agree that this is an overall design flaw. There has got to be a better approach than this, although I don't know what...

Malcolm


Post# 818314 , Reply# 57   4/9/2015 at 19:10 (3,276 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Heat-Pump Dryers

combo52's profile picture

I don't think that anyone would ever suggest that you should give up a Natural Gas Heated dryer for one of these, I can not think of any advantage of doing so.


Post# 818325 , Reply# 58   4/9/2015 at 20:26 (3,276 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Unless The US Federal Government

launderess's profile picture
Creates some insane energy use standards/laws/rules that pretty much force vented electric or gas dryers off the market can't see these hybrid units taking off.

As with condenser dryers these hybrid dryers do serve a purpose for those who either cannot or will not have a vented dryer. Then factor in a percentage of "tree huggers" willing to have anything with a "green" whiff attached to it; but for the rest of us just don't see it happening.

This past winter/fall used my AEG condenser dryer about three times in total. Now that warmer weather is slowly arriving the thing will go into mothballs until next winter. Despite having about half the heating power and a smaller diameter drum my little vintage Whirlpool "compact" dryer does a full load from either the Miele or AEG washers faster than the Lavatherm.


Post# 818329 , Reply# 59   4/9/2015 at 20:55 (3,276 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

pierreandreply4's profile picture
well for me that type of dryer not worth buying and to much trouble as i do not went to spend my time cleaning the dryer cooling fan

Post# 818356 , Reply# 60   4/9/2015 at 23:13 (3,276 days old) by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND)        

jkbff's profile picture
If I am understanding how this works, wouldn't using it in the full power mode be the same as using a vented dryer? I mean if it is heating the air that is circulating and a heat pump is running like a dehumidifier to take the moisture out how could it not work?

If it works half as good as my dehumidifier does in the summer I'd be sold on one. My 70 pint tank gets emptied once a day set at 45% rh.

I have a rack I set the dehumidifier under and hang wet clothes over when it runs sometimes. Especially in the winter when I want the heat.


Post# 818361 , Reply# 61   4/9/2015 at 23:28 (3,276 days old) by A440 ()        
Clean the cooling fan....

They should have installed a slide in filter that you can slide off and just wash. Imagine how much dust and stuff will be sucked into the dryer before the outside will be dirty? 

I also do this with my refrigerators.  I also "construct" a filter that I can take off and either clean or replace twice a year.  It is placed over the main "entrance airflow" of the fridge.  You would be amazed at how dirty these filters are every 6 months! 

I think this dryer is going to be a "hassle" for most users.  General people just want dry clothes.  These general people are the same people that forget to clean the lint filter!  I bet there will be many service calls on these units due to user error.

B


Post# 818402 , Reply# 62   4/10/2015 at 07:18 (3,275 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
@jkbff

The heater should only be engaged until a certain temperature is reached. Keep in mind that not only pretty much all energy is recycled, but because of loss of mass in the closed system and the energy added by the compressor, temperatures rise even without the additional heater.
One thing to mention as well: HP dryers are HORRIBLE at cooling down. They are designed to keep the heat in, and that basicly makes cooling down in a reasinable time impossible.


Post# 818452 , Reply# 63   4/10/2015 at 10:53 (3,275 days old) by Practigal ()        
Industrial sabotage?

I have been waiting for this dryer to come out for about a year now.
A quick check of the manual reveals two completely unexpected problems:
(1) it needs a MONTHLY cleaning of the cooling fan which is inconveniently located at the bottom back of the machine. At 182 pounds, the machine far outweighs me and my ability to move it, especially when I was intending to stack it. How in the world am I supposed to move that on a regular basis? Whirlpool did not design anything new to support the weight or increase the mobility of the unit. They could at least have put it on one of those pull out twist and turn around units just like the old televisions in an armoire used to be on.
(2) it needs a biennial cleaning of all accumulated lint by a qualified appliance servicer. These days there are very few qualified appliance servicers. That's probably going to be a minimum service call time of two hours at most of these places at $70 an hour and the tech isn't worth it he/she will probably end up breaking more than the lint they remove and they won't care because it's more business for them.
I really appreciate this review. I really wanted to buy this machine.
If I were a Whirlpool employee I would go on strike until it was redesigned to be practical. if this is representative of things to come Whirlpool will not be around in a couple of years. But maybe that was the whole point of this design, to remove this brand which has had a relatively good reputation over time, from the market. This is right up there with the recent dumbing down of Frigidaire to complete garbage, and let's not forget the loss of Maytag's sterling reputation...how could any executive in their right mind approve this as the final design? Insanity starts at the top.


Post# 818482 , Reply# 64   4/10/2015 at 13:30 (3,275 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
Cooling Fan

logixx's profile picture

Miele, for example, has the cooling fan on the front of the machine. However, that would of course clash with Whirlpool's design philosophy of making seamless laundry machines that, like the front load washer's pump trap, are impossible to clean. :-/

 

 


  View Full Size
Post# 818483 , Reply# 65   4/10/2015 at 13:37 (3,275 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Any Whirlpool dryer manual states the service quote. If you would follow these, you would have to call a service technician every 5 years. And, honestly, who does that? (Except of those who do it themselves, of course.) It's just a phrase put there so WP could say, if a dryer starts a fire, "Did you have it cleaned? No? USER ERROR! Your problem."
As the dryer is ventless, and you stack it, as long as it is free standing, you can just install them with a 1-2 inches more space to the wall. Then, every now and then, just take the brush attachment of your vacuum, put it at the end of an solid extension piece and you should be abled to clean it fairly easy without moving the dryer.


Post# 818485 , Reply# 66   4/10/2015 at 13:41 (3,275 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Oh, and...

Who would think that one of the biggest, leading applainces brands in the world REMOVES IT SELF FROM THE MARKET just because, once again, design comes over usability? I mean, they did the same with the pumps on their washers, and are still there.

Post# 818499 , Reply# 67   4/10/2015 at 14:28 (3,275 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Sadly...

mrb627's profile picture
This monthly cleaning ritual will probably not be discussed at the time of purchase. Resulting in unhappy owners after the fact.

Malcolm


Post# 818676 , Reply# 68   4/11/2015 at 02:38 (3,275 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

With all of the care and pampering this dryer needs-doubt there is going to be many takers-and when the owner has to do all of this--the machines will FLOOD the want ad magazines,Craiglist,EBay!I'll stick with my 'ole Hotpoint that has a heat coil.And if the owner has the appliance folks clean it--that will be a perfect come-on to talk the owner into buying a new one!Back to the drawing board for this dryer!!!

Post# 818727 , Reply# 69   4/11/2015 at 07:55 (3,274 days old) by Practigal ()        
Love the irony

So if the cooler fan isn't cleaned regularly....there is a potential for fire? Isn't one of the purposes behind the new regs (a vent that can contain a fire for 7 hours, essentially requiring ventless) to prevent fire...?

Post# 818730 , Reply# 70   4/11/2015 at 08:21 (3,274 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

I guess any dryer that is not well maintained is a certain fire hazzard. And usually, such units detect overheating of components like the heatpump. A fire seems an extreme case.
However: I more like the overall irony about heatpump systems: You use a refrigerant to heat something. Kind of a contrast there...


Post# 819050 , Reply# 71   4/13/2015 at 06:07 (3,272 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
German counterpart

I did a load of twoels yesterday and made a short video.



A load of 4 big towels, one bathrobe, 1 med-big towel, 3 medium towels, a washcloth and the bathrobe belt.
Residual humidity: ~50%
Cycle:
- Cottons
- Energy preffered
- extended dry (adds 8 minutes on this cycle)
- low temp
Initial sensing estimated 2:41 hours. Heatpump starts towards the end of the video (barley recognizable).
The cycle took about 2h and 20 min +/- 5 min in the end, including a short pause as the belt wrapped arround a few items which I detangled at the 2h mark.
It removed 2,55l of water, which equals 10,5 cups.


Post# 819057 , Reply# 72   4/13/2015 at 07:48 (3,272 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Fire Hazard?

mrb627's profile picture
I really don't think the pump side of the heat pump will be the source of a fire. More than likely, you'll burn out the compressor before it gets hot enough to burn.

Now, the heat strip in this particular model could be suspect to a fire, but not sure what the cooling fan in the back would have to do with that.

On a side note, my cousin had an LG full sized dryer with one of them flow sensing do-hickees on the control panel. That dryer nearly burned her house down so a lot of good that did her...

Malcolm


Post# 819058 , Reply# 73   4/13/2015 at 07:52 (3,272 days old) by iej (.... )        

Miele do a commercial heat pump dryer but the heat pump module is about 1/3 the size of the dryer and sits behind it. They're huge heat pumps.

Post# 819062 , Reply# 74   4/13/2015 at 08:21 (3,272 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Those Miele units are impressive. Though I saw them online north of 10k€. Maybe you get them cheaper now. But they offer Little Giant dryers with heatpump as well. They are around 3k€, but take a bit longer to dry then the 50 minutes the big one takes.
Electrolux offers a heatpump dryer for the commercial market as well. A bit slower than the Miele, I think. But they are just as expensive.


Post# 819332 , Reply# 75   4/15/2015 at 07:03 (3,270 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.



Post# 819334 , Reply# 76   4/15/2015 at 07:12 (3,270 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        
Ooops

joeypete's profile picture
Just realized the Kenmore hybrid is made by LG! LOL.

Post# 828806 , Reply# 77   6/20/2015 at 16:17 (3,204 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Research

mrb627's profile picture
I stopped by my local Fry's this morning. Thought I would see if they had one of these on the floor. After walking the floor and not seeing much, an employee asked me what I was looking for. I told him I was wondering if they had the new Whirlpool heat pump dryer in stock. His response? "What is a heat pump dryer?" After pointing him to the website, he replied, "Oh, we no longer carry any Whirlpool product." I told him that LG also had a heat pump dryer coming out. But it hadn't been added to their inventory.

So, is Whirlpool losing market share now?

Malcolm


Post# 828894 , Reply# 78   6/21/2015 at 13:15 (3,203 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

Malcolmn, I don't think WP is losing market share.  Frys does carry WP TLers.  I've never looked at their web page before.  I'm not impressed with their product mix.  Seems to be largely MOL at best.  Heavy on Samsung & LG throughout their appliance line.


Post# 831949 , Reply# 79   7/12/2015 at 09:50 (3,182 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Online Review

mrb627's profile picture
I saw an online review that complained this dryer heats up the room. Have you had the same experience?

Malcolm


Post# 831999 , Reply# 80   7/12/2015 at 17:08 (3,182 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Gosh

mark_wpduet's profile picture
I just found this post. Hmmm, I noticed the OP said in his vented dryer it took 90 min's to dry a large load in a vented dryer. I don't think my vented dryer takes that long, unless it's a unusually large load of clothes...

I lived in a house where the dryer was a 110 v electric vented dryer. It took FOREVER to dry a load of clothes and that does become a major issue when trying to do laundry. I HATED it. So I am imagining I would not like those dry times at all, even though I think it's a really cool machine. (no pun)


Post# 832001 , Reply# 81   7/12/2015 at 17:24 (3,182 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Original Post

mrb627's profile picture

The original video indicates that the load of towels that took over 3 hours to dry were passed through a centrifuge spinner beforehand. Makes me wonder what real world drying times might be if no spinner is available.
While I don't think adjustment to this type of dryer would be easy for most Americans, I would be more accepting of it if it had a really good timer delay function. That is, put your load of wet clothing in before bed and say complete drying at 6 am and actually have it estimate and hit the target.

Malcolm


Post# 832004 , Reply# 82   7/12/2015 at 18:11 (3,182 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
110v vented dryer

launderess's profile picture
Cannot speak for anyone else, but my harvest gold WP portable will dry a full 11lb load in one hour. Then again am taking laundry spun to death either from the Miele, AEG or spin drier.

My


Post# 832016 , Reply# 83   7/12/2015 at 20:35 (3,182 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
@ Launderess

mark_wpduet's profile picture
This was in a 2 story apartment and I was on the 2nd floor. The washer/dryer were stacked and in a small closet in the middle of the house. They were Kenmore. This was 1996. It was the small washer/dryer. It HAD to vent through the roof so God knows if the run was clogged that made the dry times in the 110v even longer than it should have been. At that time in my life, I gave NO thought to clogged vent runs, so I just thought it was the dryer not being powerful enough. I DREADED doing laundry because I knew the dryer would take forever. It was dusty too doing laundry with that dryer, almost as if there was extra lint on the load of laundry, so something must have been clogged somewhere. I was only there for approx 6 mos though.

Post# 832067 , Reply# 84   7/13/2015 at 08:00 (3,181 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Long drying times

Still puzzeled about these 3 hours as well.
Our heatpump dryer has a way smaller drum, how ever finishes a full load of towels in less then 2h. A typical load of jeans is just about 1 1/2h, both from a cold start (consecutive loads take about 10-20 minutes less), and this is after a year of use.


Post# 832096 , Reply# 85   7/13/2015 at 11:56 (3,181 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

With my current natural gas dryer the average load time is 28 to 35  minutes.  The longest I have seen with a load of thick towels was 47 minutes.  I don't know what I would do if I had to wait 3 hours for a load to dry..I mean this is no better than 1 load a day at these times. I don't like running appliances while I sleep or when I am out of the house so..that can't work for me.   If this is vented  why would it take this long - a heat pump unit that is too small?


Post# 832102 , Reply# 86   7/13/2015 at 12:42 (3,181 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

That dryer is not vented.

Just pulled a well sized load (1 pair of jeans, 1 pair of sweat pants, 3 pairs of khaki-like shorts, 1 thin cotton short, 2 sweat jackets, 3 T-Shirts) out of the dryer.
After a good 1400rpm spin (~50% residual moisture), I put them on Mixed cycle with low temp (that should be medium to medium low temp in America) and extended dry (adds 5 minutes of timed dry at the end of the cycle), which took a bit less then 1 1/2 hours. Perfect even drying on spot.


Post# 832204 , Reply# 87   7/14/2015 at 06:54 (3,180 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

joeypete's profile picture
I think he was drying his towels on the lowest setting, that's why it took so long.

Post# 885120 , Reply# 88   6/14/2016 at 13:16 (2,844 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        
Calling Pulsator.....

I hate to bring this thread up again, however I am very interested to see just how this dryer is treating you and your clothes after quite a while. Any possibility you could give a review? Thanks!

Post# 885265 , Reply# 89   6/15/2016 at 07:21 (2,843 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
I guess

I'm not seeing any benefit to having this. Longer dry times, any energy saving from heating is used up in tumbling.
I know a few who tried the LG condensing combo washer/dryer. When they discovered one load took four hours, they returned them to the store.
Lesson learned, if it isn't broken, don't try fixing it.
The same with the VMW top load washer. If it goes off balance and you are not aware, it can continually try to spin, drain, refill, redistribute the load, drain, try to spin, until it can spin. I have returned home only to find soaking wet laundry in the washer. No trouble code flashing, but I've had to unplug the machine and plug it back in to get the lid to unlock.
My service tech says there is nothing wrong with it. The suspension is in tact, and when he activated the self diagnostic cycle, all was aok.
It also no longer slow spins when filling on Normal cycle. It static fills the same as on hand wash, only rather than 1/3 of a tub, a half tub of water, regardless of the load size. So it no longer saves water.
I suspect the motor is getting weak, but that's my educated guess. At going on 6 years old, it's not worth a second overhaul. Not out of warranty.
A shame when it's platinum or liquid silver cabinet looks nearly new. Unlike my mom's 1963 Kenmore model 70 that lasted her over twenty years and five kids with a few minor repairs such as a belt, pump, or a mix valve.


Post# 885312 , Reply# 90   6/15/2016 at 13:03 (2,843 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

murando531's profile picture
But, the HybridCare isn't a combo washer/dryer. It's simply a condensing heat pump dryer, which most of the eastern world has adopted as a primary dryer type. Not only that, the HC still has a traditional heating element, and when set to do so, can dry a load of clothes in the same quick fashion that a conventional vented dryer can, with the only exception being that the compressor still runs in order to pull the moisture out of the air and drain it away, rather than throwing heated moist air outdoors. Even in this mode, it saves more energy than a vented machine.

While I do agree that the vent grille could be mounted on the front of the machine, I don't see the fuss about grabbing your vacuum's extension tube and nozzle and giving it a few swipes. The only issue I can see with that are these "minimalist" folks who want their machines installed in premade cabinets as one would a dishwasher or refrigerator, which I find to bring up numerous other issues as well with any frontloading pair, but I just sit in the corner looking over thin-framed glasses sipping my tea in regards to that subject.

This is the first generation of this machine, and as Whirlpool has been known with many innovations of the past, will spark more competition from the other manufacturers. I won't be surprised to see LG and Samsung with copycat machines soon, where GE will follow suit, and etc.


Post# 885474 , Reply# 91   6/16/2016 at 07:47 (2,842 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
No, it isn't

a combo washer/dryer, but same long dry time.
Whirlpool once made an electric range called the "Polaris". It had a cooling unit for the oven so you could put cold meals and meats in, then keep them chilled until the start set time for the oven began cooking. It's design style matched the Calypso washer.
Sales must have been sluggish at best.
If I am away all day, I prepare the meal with frozen meat, season, and set the oven for start and cook time. By the time it begins cooking, it may be thawed, but still cold. Also, any selmonella bacteria which may have only began to develop is killed by a sustained roasting temp. of 275 degrees f.
Also, most who can afford fresh cuts of prime meat and do not freeze them are either able to be home the day they cook it, or have a cook, or housekeeper to tend to it.


Post# 885503 , Reply# 92   6/16/2016 at 10:58 (2,842 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Polara.


Post# 885515 , Reply# 93   6/16/2016 at 11:46 (2,842 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Ah! yes, of course,

I was confused on that. For some reason, thinking perhaps Chrysler still held a patent on "Polara".

Post# 885532 , Reply# 94   6/16/2016 at 14:00 (2,842 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
LG?

mrb627's profile picture
Was the LG a true heat-pump? I thought it still required a vent to the outside.

Malcolm


Post# 885534 , Reply# 95   6/16/2016 at 14:09 (2,842 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Malcom,

no, the LG is a condensing dryer. It may need venting, I'm not sure. In either instance, 4 hours to wash and dry one load is too long.

Post# 885596 , Reply# 96   6/16/2016 at 20:04 (2,842 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)        

AFAIK, all LG washer/dryer combos are ventless condenser dryers. They're only suitable for people who want/need their own washer and dryer and only have a 120v outlet to work with and/or space for just one machine. 

 

If one has access to venting, 240v line, or gas there are likely better dryer options.

 

That said, I can see a lot of people living in older cities in the northeastern U.S.A buying these units.

 

Jim

 

 


Post# 885647 , Reply# 97   6/17/2016 at 03:53 (2,842 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

The washer dryer combos are a complete different thing. They are watercooled condenser and as said run on 120V, thus takeing longer.

The heatpump units of the WP and LG units are only in the medium 1-2kW range I guess, but are further boosted by a conventional resistive heater.

The LG is vented, which confuses me a lot. Why and how would they?


Post# 888837 , Reply# 98   7/10/2016 at 06:25 (2,818 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Whirlpool Sales?

mrb627's profile picture

I wonder how many of these dryers Whirlpool has sold in the US. They remain a special order item at the retailers I have checked. Further, there are still salespeople that don't even know what a heat pump dryer exists...

Malcolm


Post# 888842 , Reply# 99   7/10/2016 at 08:42 (2,818 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Nor would most

consumers care. Longer cycle times is a negative selling point.
I can tell you several people I know say keep your older machines over high efficiency ones for that reason alone.
Sort of like a water saver shower head vs. a non saver. If it takes longer to shower and rinse off, how is it saving? Now lower amperage draw and or some water use over several households may add up to real energy savings, but it's an inconvenience.
Then again, using ten amps for an hour, or 20 amps for a half hour. or a gallon per minute for 5 minutes vs a half gallon per minute for 10 minutes is apples to oranges.


Post# 888851 , Reply# 100   7/10/2016 at 10:21 (2,818 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Agree...

mrb627's profile picture

Although I am very interested in the technology. Plus, the 3+ hours cycle times observed in the original post were at the lowest heat setting. Under normal operating temperatures, the dryer would have to perform better on the time table.

I just wonder if there have been problems with this model. And it seems interesting that you never hear anything about them. I see plenty of Maytag commercials and the Cabrio TL, but nothing else.

Malcolm


Post# 888879 , Reply# 101   7/10/2016 at 15:01 (2,818 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Wait -

mark_wpduet's profile picture
So this hybrid care is a condenser dryer, right? But it has an additional heating element that can dry as fast as a vented dryer if one chooses? I just want to make sure I understood that correctly - If that's true, I wouldn't mind having one. I wouldn't have an issue cleaning filters.

Post# 888933 , Reply# 102   7/11/2016 at 05:17 (2,818 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Essentially it does

condense, but by using a heat pump compressor. You empty it like a dehumidifier.
Even though the technology isn't problematic if you can select a regular heating element dry cycle, why pay for it then?


Post# 888957 , Reply# 103   7/11/2016 at 09:45 (2,817 days old) by suburbanmd (Maryland, USA)        
Why pay for it?

I think it's the only American-sized ventless dryer.


Post# 888997 , Reply# 104   7/11/2016 at 14:43 (2,817 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
As with ventless dryers otherwise, can only see these WP units being purchased is for situations where one cannot or will not use a vent. Otherwise as noted above, why bother?

Here in NYC where they are converting old office/commercial buildings to housing and or building new a washer and dryer are now considered almost standard equipment by prospective tenants/buyers. Often due to layout of building some or all units simply cannot have vented dryers, so condenser or whatever are the only option. Well that and the dreaded laundry room in basement where dryers are hooked up a central vent line.


Post# 888998 , Reply# 105   7/11/2016 at 14:45 (2,817 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Why bother?

Energy savings.
Gentler drying.
Curiosity.


Post# 889021 , Reply# 106   7/11/2016 at 17:24 (2,817 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Why pay for it?

mark_wpduet's profile picture
well since moving into my brand new home in 2004, my dryer vents through the roof and I freaking HATE it! The first few years, even as frequent as every 3 months, I would have to clean the run, and the exhaust cap on the roof would also get lint stuck on it, and it's on the very edge of the very steep roof pitch. I would have to use a long pole with a brush taped on the end of it, AFTER using a leaf blower, standing on a ladder.

I discovered a post on gardenweb years ago where a lady and her husband lived in a condo and they experienced the same problem. Their solution was to put a pain strainer inside the part that runs from the back of the dryer to the wall, catching any additional lint that would escape the first lint screen. Then clean it every 2 weeks, keeping the entire vent run clean. I've been doing this for years and there is no build of of lint in the run at all...Since I'm the only one to do laundry, I keep that cleaned frequently. You should see the amount of lint it catches. Luckily, with my setup, I can pretty easily get behind the dryer.

It is a pain but it is NOT nearly as much of a pain as cleaning the entire vent run and roof exhaust cap -
If you live in a house where the dryer exhausts directly outside - you are so lucky.

so yes, I could see this being better in my setup.


Post# 889024 , Reply# 107   7/11/2016 at 17:36 (2,817 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
When I lived

in my last apartment, I had a portable Whirlpool washer and dryer, and I vented through the bedroom window like those portable air conditioners.
Whirlpool has gotten enough of my money in 30 years.


Post# 889026 , Reply# 108   7/11/2016 at 18:01 (2,817 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Venting through a window is an option

launderess's profile picture
Lord knows plenty in the NYC area do so; but it only works if you are allowed to have a dryer in first place. Otherwise come winter that stream of steam out of a window is a dead give away! *LOL*

Post# 889029 , Reply# 109   7/11/2016 at 18:30 (2,817 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)        

Vacerator: "...how is it savings?"

 

I think we all agree with your point. However, I think it's too complicated for most consumers to understand. If a new thing uses only half the electricity the old one does, it's saving energy. Period. That the new one has to run twice as long is simply NOT in the equation. Period. And in the minds of most people, you have a screw loose if you think it is.

 

Malcolm: Good point about possible product issues. IMO, if this dryer is still relatively unknown and people on AW are actually unclear about its workings, there's a serious problem somewhere in marketing & distribution. 

 

I'm curious as to whether these dryers are actually that much faster than the drying cycles in LG combo models. If not, then what's the point?

 

Jim   


Post# 889034 , Reply# 110   7/11/2016 at 19:06 (2,817 days old) by Murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

murando531's profile picture
A condenser dryer is much gentler on clothes than a traditional dryer, which to some people is a major selling point over drying time. The fact that the HybridCare is equipped with heating elements to allow it to dry just as fast or faster than a traditional, but without wasting that heat by throwing it outside, is to negate that "drawback" of longer cycle times for when a person is pressed for time. For myself, I don't wait next to my machines fidgeting in my chair for it to be done, and I'd much rather my clothes go through a gentler cycle, so I've already decided my next appliance purchase will be the HybridCare or whatever is best by that time.

It's already been proven by many that a lower power machine that runs longer than a previous design still saves energy in comparison. We bought a KillAWatt device not long ago and tested various things around the house, and at one point I connected the new Whirlpool dishwasher to it and ran a normal cycle, with just 1 kWh being its usage for a three hour, heavy soil instance. The PowerClean, on the other hand, used about 2.6 kWh in its normal cycle, with the motor using much higher wattage than the high-efficiency pump on the 920. And in both cases, dishes come out spotless as always, though the 920 may actually surpass the PowerClean simply because of the longer main wash, where the detergent and enzymes have more time to work. I've had many a speck or smudge from the PC that seemed oddly easy to clean, that I've never had left over in the 920.

@vacerator - Some condenser dryers do require manual emptying, but the HybridCare dryer we're talking about here has a dedicated pump to drain into the same port as the washer, or into a nearby sink, so the owner doesn't have to worry about any hassle as opposed to a traditional machine, aside from cleaning the second filter periodically.


Post# 889040 , Reply# 111   7/11/2016 at 20:17 (2,817 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
"Gentler on clothes"?????

It's a tumble dryer. Same difference. Lower heat? That's what low, extra low, or delicate temp. setting does.

Post# 889092 , Reply# 112   7/12/2016 at 05:19 (2,817 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Additionally...

mrb627's profile picture
If your laundry room is inside your air conditioned space, exhausting air you have paid to cool to 72 degrees then heated to 150 is just crazy. Eliminating the 200 CFM of outside air entering your conditioned space takes quite a load off your ac. The additional 600 dollars in machine cost could be gained over the course of one or two summers...

Malcolm


Post# 889117 , Reply# 113   7/12/2016 at 09:33 (2,816 days old) by Murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

murando531's profile picture
Vacerator, I wonder sometimes if you even read back to yourself what you type.

No, it most certainly is not "same difference" because a condenser dryer uses MUCH lower temperatures than a traditional heating element dryer. Have you ever opened a dryer set even at medium or low heat before it has started its cool down period, or when it's at its peak? The interior and the clothes themselves are nearly too hot to touch. The last time I measured a dryer with a thermometer, it reached 250F. You can't tell me that kind of heat doesn't cause tremendous wear to clothes over time.

A condenser dryer relies on the principle of actually -removing- the moisture from the air it is recirculating through the clothes, rather than super heating the air and pushing the heat and humidity out of the house, or worse, back into the room. The heat that is generated by the conpressor and coils is about the same as what comes out of the vents of a home with an HVAC heat pump system, which is pleasantly warm. The low heat still aids the drying process some, but the primary removal of moisture is done by the moisture in the air being condensed and drained out. That is indisputably gentler on fabrics of all types than baking the water out in a glorified oven.


Post# 889130 , Reply# 114   7/12/2016 at 11:56 (2,816 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Well I'm older,

and have more insurance, but I do read, and think before I write. I still learn everyday, and I have tried to dry a delicate garment on air dry, and it took forever, so how low is low? I don't go that low anymore. I have also discovered that a lint screen not cleaned after one load can actually help retain some heat in the dryer, because why else would the second load an hour later, after the dryer had cooled down be done in less time? I also remove clothing well before the cool down time, like with ten minutes left, and low and behold, it is fully dry.
Like I said, I've helped support the jobs of all Whirlpool employees, executives, and the portfolios of it's shareholders for 30 years, as well as GE, so I can give an educated guess on any of their products.
You may not agree and that's fine, unlike a person in a supermarket who swung her cart around and nailed me in the knee and tried to tell me I was fine. I ended up needing surgery. No, I didn't sue the store, I sued her and won, but I only sued for my medical bills and lost work time.


Post# 889135 , Reply# 115   7/12/2016 at 12:27 (2,816 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

You have to differ between heatpump powered, water cooled (as in most combos today) and aircooled condenser dryers.
Air cooled once usually run even hotter then vented ones, don't "dry the air" just as well (plumes of steam if you open it mid cycle) and are a bit less efficent on their own (that is not considering the whole ACed air exhaustion topic).
Water cooled systems run even hotter then the air cooled ones in most cases, aren't any more efficent and require lots of water for drying.
Heatpump dryers are best described in one simple comparison: You know these portable AC units? These that run at ~2kw? They cool a well sized room. Now, imagine, a unit about half as powerfull, but for about 1% the air volume. That is how they dry.


Post# 889195 , Reply# 116   7/12/2016 at 18:10 (2,816 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
anyone who has this dryer

mark_wpduet's profile picture
just for kicks, can you wash a large load of laundry, then dry it on the speed setting (which uses the heating element) and time it to full dry?

I would really appreciate it. Thanks



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