Thread Number: 59419  /  Tag: Modern Dishwashers
Input on Miele Dishwashers
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Post# 820214   4/20/2015 at 20:34 (3,264 days old) by xraytech (Rural southwest Pennsylvania )        

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Well guys, in my mind I'm highly considering a kitchen remodel. I'm not sure which way I'll go as I have 2 options. First is the less expensive choice, is buying cabinets from
A friend who is remodeling as the cabinet is same style as my wood ones are and replacing mywl worn metal cabinets, and adding a built-in dishwasher which would be a vintage KitchenAid.

My second option would be to go for a complete brand new custom made kitchen with cabinet to place my microwave below counter level, and a built in dishwasher. If I go this route I'm thinking I should go for a new dishwasher and I'm thinking Miele since I'm quite thrifty but believe in buying the best.

I'd be considering 2 models one being the G 5605 SCi Futura Dimension Series Dishwasher, the other being the G 5915 SCi Diamond Series Dishwasher since they both have front controls and come in white.

What are your opinions on these models, does anyone have a Miele that can share their thoughts.
Also does anyone know what the price point on a Miele dishwasher would be?


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Post# 820220 , Reply# 1   4/20/2015 at 21:01 (3,264 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Calling Malcolm; come in, Malcolm...

Post# 820222 , Reply# 2   4/20/2015 at 21:16 (3,264 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

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As many know, I have a Miele LaPerla dishwasher. Absolutely love that dishwasher. I have had it since 2008 and had one repair to it and Miele took care of it last year. They stand behind what they build. The dishwasher needed a new wash pump and they "goodwilled" the parts. I had to pay for the labor which was a flat fee. I would definittely buy another Miele dishwasher in a heartbeat if I had to.
This dishwasher at the time was the top of the line machine. It has the glass control panel and scrolling feature of Navitronics. It does everything but load the dishes and unload. The dishwasher is very quiet in operation. It also alternates wash arms. It will run the middle arm first then the top and bottom together. If you choose a machine that has a built in water softener, which I do recommend since it helps with the new phosphate free detergents and makes it easier for them to work properly. The dishwasher will let me know what it needs and will nag me until I give her what she needs to do the job correctly like rinse aid, and salt. It also monitors water temps coming into the dishwasher, water hardness and adjusts the softener accordingly, water levels for optimum performance, and using the Sensor Cycle can add or delete a rinse or extend the wash cycle. It also gives me the option for a soak cycle with Pots and Pans, Intensive/Heavy. Pots and Pans cycle is the most powerful and with the VarioPressure pump, it will clean the chrome off a truck hitch and it will heat the water to 172F. The water heater is in the wash pump and it surrounds the wash pump impeller. Water temp rise is very quick since the heater is about 1000 watts or so.
Drying is very good with this machine as well. It uses a fan to blow over the duct on the side that pulls the moist air in at the top and condenses the moisture out of the air and returns it back to the tank. Rinse aid is needed for drying to work properly. The only thing that it has issues with drying is plastics. If I leave a load sit overnight and unload in the morning, the plastics will be dry. But I often unload when the dishwasher is done and I dont mind wiping.
Depending on the model you choose, I think you will be happy with the quality of the machine. If you get a model with the silverware tray third level , it does take a week to get used to but after that it will make sense. I group spoons, forks, knives together. It does take some time to do that but unloading is very quick since they are all organized and ready for the drawer when clean.
Loading the racks, depending on the model, these hold a ton of dishes. The only thing I would advise you is that if your plates are chunky or odd shaped , you might have issues with loading. The spacing is tighter on the racks and you will notice that right off. American machines have wider spaces between tines. Plus the racks will look smaller, but dont let that fool you into thinking it wont hold much. Once you go Miele, you dont go back.


Post# 820225 , Reply# 3   4/20/2015 at 21:26 (3,264 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Reviewed.com quite liked one if the new Miele dishwashers:

luxuryhome.reviewed.com/content/m...


Post# 820226 , Reply# 4   4/20/2015 at 21:41 (3,264 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
Sam --

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My Miele is about ten years old.  I it came from the ReStore and produces the most sparkling clean dishes and glassware of any dishwasher I've ever owned.

 

Yes, it takes a lot longer than an old school dishwasher, but it's infinitely quieter during operation and that was an additional selling point for me.

 

Be prepared for sticker shock.  It may make you think twice about buying brand new.


Post# 820232 , Reply# 5   4/20/2015 at 23:03 (3,264 days old) by aamassther (Hendersonville, NC )        

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I have the LPerla II, I concur with all stated above. Best cleaning dishwasher I've ever used. The II added the auto open feature for the door after the cycle is complete. It really helps with drying. I can unload quite soon after the cycle completes and everything is dry. The Diamond has this feature and I believe the Dimension does now also. The North American TOL Miele no longer offer auto water softener adjustment, beginning with the two, though it's very easy to adjust.
I've noticed that the new 6000 series are available in Canada, so likely appearing in the US soon. If you wait you may be able to get a floor sample of the 5000 series for much cheaper. I was able to save about 900$ as I purchased mine when the Diamond was just introduced.


Post# 820238 , Reply# 6   4/20/2015 at 23:29 (3,264 days old) by labboy (SD, CA)        
Miele in White...

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I just went through the issue of what colors are available from Miele. Although it appears that white is an option from the pictures on their website, in reality it is not the case. They have very few models available prefinished in white.

I also really wanted the two models you listed but also had to have white. Those models require a custom front panel. A call to Miele, a visit to two local dealers and two emails to Miele confirmed that they do not offer a white custom panel. They said I would need to find a cabinet maker to have a white one fitted.

There are only two models they have that come in white. One is Crystal G5225 in White. I really wanted a third rack and a water softener and have it in white and could not find it with Miele. (I really tried.)

I ended up going with a Bosch as they had a model which came in white with a third rack and a water softener (Model SHE7PT52UC). I have been very happy so far.

I would have chosen a Miele but decided not to because of limited color selection and not having the model in white with a third rack and the water softerner. I figured if I was going to spend that much I would get exactly what I wanted.

Bob


Post# 820249 , Reply# 7   4/21/2015 at 00:18 (3,264 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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"I've noticed that the new 6000 series are available in Canada, so likely appearing in the US soon."

According to reviewed.com, they're supposed to go on sale on May 4th.


Post# 820286 , Reply# 8   4/21/2015 at 06:59 (3,263 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Miele Excella

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I have a Miele Excella that has been the quietest DW I have owned.
Although, I'm not sure I would spend in excess of $2200 for it again.
I probably would, but not without looking at everything else first. When I bought this, I was coming out of a bad Bosch experience and only a Miele would satisfy me at the time. It does on occasion fail to clean casserole dishes, but no DW I have owned performed perfectly every time.

Malcolm


Post# 820297 , Reply# 9   4/21/2015 at 09:20 (3,263 days old) by behzad (Home Appliances Lab)        
this is just my idea

Hey,
If I were you, I would buy a Miele Classic dishwasher, but if you can find one inside your state. It's quiet, easy to use, clean design for casual life, I really like it cause you pay for what you really need.

It' German-made
Introduced with front-control panel in both black and white finish,
It's not magical DW, cause you must clean the filters manually, not everyday just a couple of time in month. By the way it has great quality, high end one . you'll be surprising how quiet the Miele DW is.

Hope you find the right one
BJ


Post# 820308 , Reply# 10   4/21/2015 at 11:45 (3,263 days old) by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada)        

countryguy's profile picture
I have always wanted a Miele dishwasher so when they were on sale last April, I bought one on the spur of the moment at a savings of $400. See the link for the thread. I couldn't be happier with it. It is more towards the BOL model but it does have the cutlery tray and 5 cycles which is adequate for my use. It does not have the water softener but my water is soft so that is not an issue. I've noticed that if I run the dishwasher overnight that not everything is dry the next morning. If I open the door slightly as soon as the cycle finishes then all non plastics will dry completely but some plastic will still be wet after the dishes have cooled down.

Gary


CLICK HERE TO GO TO countryguy's LINK


Post# 820339 , Reply# 11   4/21/2015 at 14:50 (3,263 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

I have the LaPerla like nmassman44 has. I bought it in 2006 and its had one repair early in it's life. It was a part named the water path that almost never goes bad. The labor and part was covered under warranty. Before this I had a G885 for 10 years - no repairs at all. I replaced it only because I was installing a new kitchen.

I agree with the information from Reviewed.com in that the DW cleans what ever you throw at it. Sometimes it seems like some of the extra cycles are not necessary, but what I did was to monitor how each cycle worked. From this I found that I can get a very good clean for normal to moderately dirty dishes from a cycle using a wash and two rinses and lasting 1 hour 32 minutes. It doesn't work for all but it works for many of mine. I also found that the sensor cycle will varying the main wash temperature and time. On my unit the main wash can last from 18 minutes to 1 hour 12 minutes depending on the soil. The machine will also vary the time of the prewash if the the dishes are not dirty and will also skip the water change between the pre wash and main wash in addition to adding additional rinses if needed.

I noted that the review in review.com mentioned that the DW used more water and electric than others. In my opinion THIS IS NOT A BAD THING considering how todays DW operate like lawn sprinklers. - This machine acts as close as the old style DW as you can get using little water, but having a strong pump., and it is not afraid to heat the water either.

Best thing to do is not automatically dismiss the higher cost models if they have more cycles, because like I said there are advantages to them but it takes a bit to understand how they are different from the Normal cycles, and once you know you can make the machine work for you. As far as I know there are no cycles lasting 3 or 4 hours....at least not on mine. Now...the machine can be connected to cold water and in my case my incoming hot water temperature is about 90F in the winter, so during this time the cycle times increase because the DW is heating the water to the correct temp and without any type of heater timeout stuff going on.

If I have to get another DW it will be a Miele.


Post# 820340 , Reply# 12   4/21/2015 at 14:58 (3,263 days old) by xraytech (Rural southwest Pennsylvania )        

xraytech's profile picture
Thank you all for the input on the dishwashers, after looking at the G 4225 SC Futura Classic I see that its a model that has what I need, my biggest thing is that it comes in white and has a Rinse and Hold Cycle. I'm not sure about the cutlery tray but it seems like something I would grow to like

Post# 820342 , Reply# 13   4/21/2015 at 15:16 (3,263 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Miele was really ahead on a lot of things.
They had the pattent on the third rack until early this decade.
They had a pattent on the AutoOpen feature until not long ago.
They have one of the most advanced Sensor-cycles on the market. They have a efficent, yet powerfull drying system that is AFAIK the only sensor based drying system on the market.
And in the end: They are Miele for a reason. They are not perfect, but simply better.

The lower end model is what in my opinion has everything one needs: AutoOpen, a variable speed pump, nice flexible racking (including the loved\hated multi zone in the lower basket and the upper basket that you actually can slant), the sensor drying and a water softner.
If you really plan on getting everything optimized to the best you can in terms of cycle efficency, user friendlyness and performance, the better one is more "elegant" about it. Every option Miele puts onto anything is there for a reason. If you are not looking into knowing everything, the lower will do just fine. If you want to use everything a DW today can usefully offer, go TOL.


Post# 820343 , Reply# 14   4/21/2015 at 15:34 (3,263 days old) by Michael (London /England)        
Miele dishwasher

My personal experience with my Miele dishwasher is disappointing.When I had a kitchen refurb 3 years ago, I replaced my Miele washing machine with a new one (5964) which is a fantastic machine-cannot fault it in any way.
I replaced my Bosch dishwasher with a Miele G5500, which is middle of the range. I find the cutlery draw a pain, takes ages to load and restricts what you can put in the upper basket.
Unless you rinse everything thoroughly, it doesn't really clean very well and takes so looooong to do a wash! I use fairy platinum tablets and salt and rinse aid but I think both my previous bosch machines did a much better job in half the time....just my opinion!


Post# 820346 , Reply# 15   4/21/2015 at 16:01 (3,263 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Try not washing beforehand and use the sensor cycle. If you still get bad results, look up the "adapt sensor wash" option. If still, try changing to a single detergent, not a combi product.

Post# 820353 , Reply# 16   4/21/2015 at 17:28 (3,263 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Miele DWs

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Hi Sam, I would probably skip a Miele DW, They are well made and quiet and can work very well if everything is in proper working order, but every customer we have with one has had at least one EXPENSIVE problem if they have had them for more than a 1/2 dozen years or so. And unless you are going to repair it yourself be prepared to spend $500-$1000 on any serious repair. Even here in the Nations Capital there does not seem to be a good service provider for Miele appliances other than the factory service. One of my customers the other week was complaining about having to wait over three weeks with a completely broken machine with a family of 5 for the first service appointment. She was also told if they could not fix it on the first trip she would be charged another $149 for the 2nd trip plus any parts and labor.

 

Since I was at this customers fixing her WP dryer and she wanted me to check out the MDW I agreed, we could only get it to fill and drain, it appeared to have a problem with the main motor and pump. And indeed when Miele showed up a few weeks later they told her it needed a new P&M, installed estimate $800 + the $149 SC. We installed a new KA DW for about $900 three days later.

 

I have been unable to find any hard proof of the reliability of Miele DWs and certainly all brands of DWs do require repairs if you keep them any length of time, but my best guess is they are not as reliable as the better us brands, GE, KA, WP and WP built KMs and even if they were as good as these other brands it still would not be worth the hassle for most DW owners.

 

I do agree with Ralph, if you want to try a Miele get one at a resale place like Habit For Humanity, I lot of well off folks get rid of high end appliances and wright them off and as a result you often see Miele, Subzero, Thermador etc donated and for sale cheap.


Post# 820370 , Reply# 17   4/21/2015 at 19:35 (3,263 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

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For starters with Miele Factory Service...I called Miele and they sent out a guy to fix my dishwasher right away. I did not have to wait 3 weeks for service. Plus when I told the guy on the phone what the fault code was, he knew it was the wash pump and even though it was out of warranty, they good willed the parts since they said that the pump should have lasted longer than that. If I had to pay for the part it would have been a whopping $650 and I also needed the feed tubes for the middle and upper wash arms. They good willed those as well. Miele also charged me once for the service fee and they came out three times. I asked the tech the first time and he told me that they will only charge me the service fee once the repair is complete and not charge me for every trip out. If this was a Whirlpool product, which I have experience with and with A&E service where they charge $150 each trip out to tell me I have defective fridge, but thats another story.
The other thing is that Miele would rather have you use the factory service since they have the tools to get the job done correctly. Not some Joe Shmo repair guy that has no clue what they are doing. Or worse, make it look like they know what they are doing or saying , but they dont.


Post# 820378 , Reply# 18   4/21/2015 at 20:52 (3,263 days old) by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada)        

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I like having the cutlery tray. It takes a little getting used to but once you are, it really does not take much longer to load. And while it may take a little longer to load the cutlery, unloading it is much quicker. I load like cutlery pieces in the same section i.e. knives in 1 section, dinner forks in another, dessert forks another, etc. Since none of the cutlery pieces touch each other, I find they get cleaned better. There is also a large enough space between the tray and upper wash arm that I can load smaller measuring cups, measuring spoons, etc. on the tray. As for cleaning, everything I have put in it has come out clean - I don't prerinse and sometimes the dishwasher is not run for 3-4 days. I had a casserole dish with baked on crud from scalloped potatoes which sat for 2 days and it came out spotless.

Gary



Post# 820396 , Reply# 19   4/22/2015 at 00:38 (3,263 days old) by richnz (New Zealand)        
If you choose a Miele with a cutlery tray

Then consider how many steps it is from the tray (in the machine) to the cutlery drawer. Our machine is close to where the cutlery is stored and thank goodness as I am a bit hopeless in that it takes me 5 trips from the cutlery tray (knives, forks, spoons, teaspoons and odd items).

I insisted we follow the Blum idea of dividing the kitchen into zones and feel things are much better for it.





Perhaps if Miele made the cutlery tray removable in the future?


Post# 820415 , Reply# 20   4/22/2015 at 05:23 (3,263 days old) by retro-man (- boston,ma)        

I for one will never spend $2200.00 on a dishwasher. I don't care how pretty and TOL it is. I think people who spend this amount of money on a simple machine have more money than brains. I have 2 Whirpools that wash and dry perfectly for a lot less money. I don't see what all the fuss is over these overly priced machines that take hours to complete a cycle. I use the 1 hour cycle and everything comes out clean. The extra savings looks better in my account than theirs.

Jon


Post# 820425 , Reply# 21   4/22/2015 at 07:56 (3,262 days old) by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada)        

countryguy's profile picture
I would never spend $2200 on a dishwasher either....my Miele was less than $1000 brand new....less than the KA I had previously. I like how quiet it is and it takes the same or even less time on some cycles than the KA did.

Gary


Post# 820889 , Reply# 22   4/25/2015 at 12:07 (3,259 days old) by xraytech (Rural southwest Pennsylvania )        

xraytech's profile picture
Well I went to look at the dishwashers today, the floor models were just marked down to make room for new models. I originally wanted the Futura Classic, but the floor model was black. For just a little bit more I went up a step or two to a Futura Crystal that had some nice additional features, and I believe the water softener, it was on the floor in stainless and I felt it would look less out of place than a black one since I have brushed stainless handles on my fridge and the chrome trim on the range.
I can't wait until I can have plumbing and electric ran to have it installed.


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Post# 821291 , Reply# 23   4/28/2015 at 12:09 (3,256 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Inside a Miele DW




Never new Miele had cycles that used both spray arms at once all the time... Looks like the Quick cycle to me.


Post# 821293 , Reply# 24   4/28/2015 at 12:18 (3,256 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

Could be a quick cycle or the Turbo function, but when I bought my machine only two Miele models sold in the USA had the alternating spray arm feature, the rest used all arms at once, but that was 9 years ago.


Post# 821294 , Reply# 25   4/28/2015 at 12:24 (3,256 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Alternerting arms just seemed logical to me. But you're right about Turbo.

Post# 821308 , Reply# 26   4/28/2015 at 14:19 (3,256 days old) by aamassther (Hendersonville, NC )        

aamassther's profile picture
The 6000 series models are on the Miele US website. The Lumen looks interesting, like a Dimension Plus with some Diamond features thrown in.

Post# 821461 , Reply# 27   4/29/2015 at 16:38 (3,255 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

There are a ton of DWs on that site, more than they usually have. I downloaded the manual for the lumen 6905 or 6910.  They have the sound ratings in dbs instead of the Q 1 through 5.

 

There is no heavy soil, cheese or starch cycle like some of the older models, just pots and pans.  The filter and grates are to wash the grates and filters of Miele cooktops and exhaust fans.  I guess you could use this for other things but there is no way to tell what exactly these cycles are doing.  There is a clean machine cycle..something that is probably not necessary.


Post# 821476 , Reply# 28   4/29/2015 at 18:27 (3,255 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Filters and Grates - that's new. It's also interesting to see that the Normal cycle can adapt itself more to the soil level than the actual SensorWash cycle.

The Clean Machine cycle is imported from Europe, where we are continuously being told to use the low-energy, high-performance Eco cycle whenever possible. Since it only washes and rinses at 120F, grease can build up. Clean Machine is supposed to take care of that - preferably along with Miele's expensive dishwasher cleaner. As a safety net, the software has been adapted to also take care of too many low-temp cycles:

"If you mainly use low temperature programmes (below 50 °C), there is a risk of bacteria and unpleasant odours building up in the wash cabinet. To prevent this happening the dishwasher will automatically increase the temperature in the final rinse of the selected programme after several programmes using low temperatures have been run." (Miele UK, dishwasher manual)


Post# 821489 , Reply# 29   4/29/2015 at 20:17 (3,255 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

The change in the Normal cycle may be due to the USA Energy Star program that I think requires that if a DW has a soil sensor it must be used on the cycle that is used for the energy measurements, and that cycle must also be the normal everyday cycle. 

 

So I am guessing that the pots and pans cycle will also be used for heavy soil loads as well as cheese and starch...?



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