Thread Number: 59617  /  Tag: Vintage Dryers
Transplanting a WP/KM/Inglis Dryer Console
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Post# 822190   5/6/2015 at 01:33 (873 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Hi Everyone - My great friend Phil was able to locate a matching dryer to my 66 Inglis washer. Problem is it's on the opposite side of the country and shipping would be problematic and cost prohibitive.

My thought is to take the console off of this dryer and transplant it to a WP/KM/Inglis that I can find locally. The only potential hurdle will be that the matching dryer uses the old style system with the belt driven pulleys and I'd likely be looking to put it on the newer style with the fixed bulkhead. You basically never see any of the old style dryers anymore and I understand the newer design is a much better performer.

Can anyone who is familiar think of any reason this wouldn't be feasible? As I understand the cabinet dimensions are the same so the console should fit and I think the wiring could be figured out.....are there any specific parts besides the console that would need to be retained if this can be done?

Any insight from anyone would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance!





Post# 822199 , Reply# 1   5/6/2015 at 05:25 (873 days old) by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

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The lint filter might be a bit of a problem since the Inglis dryer you're looking at probably has the 'short' filter; the newer models would have the longer one.  I don't know if the width of the filters would be the same.  I've got a '66 Sterling that has the short filter -I have a long filter from a later Inglis in storage but I could double check the measurements for you on the weekend when I get back down to Ogden.   

 

There is also a temperature probe on the older Inglis dryers - this would have to be placed in the 'new' dryer drum correctly to ensure proper operation.   I wish I had the blasted manual for my Inglis dryer to better explain this... 

 

But the big consideration would be the cabinet styling...  The Inglis machines of this era had bottom panels with the molded edge (see pictures) - I think Inglis may have carried this over into later models for their Canadian models, but I'm not sure.    

 

If you do go ahead with this, make sure you have the wiring diagrams of both dryers - if you can save the entire wiring harness along with the dryer console, so much the better.

 

This sounds like an interesting project - keep us posted how things develop!

 

 


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Post# 822233 , Reply# 2   5/6/2015 at 11:10 (873 days old) by RevvinKevin (Between Mickey Mouse & the Queen Mary (So. Cal.)        
Lint filter is a non-issue

revvinkevin's profile picture

 

 

Paul, James is talking about only swapping the console / control panel on to a newer cabinet.   As such, the size / shape of the lint filter is a non-issue because it's not effected by a control panel swap.  

 

Paul is correct about the cabinet styling however.   The shape / detail is different between the newer / older cabinet styles.  Something to consider if all the matching details are important.

 

Kevin


Post# 822236 , Reply# 3   5/6/2015 at 11:23 (873 days old) by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

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Oh geez,  that's right!  If the whole top was being changed, that'd be a challenge, but not for just the console.  

 

Thanks, Kevin - I must still been asleep when I posted this... LOL 


Post# 822332 , Reply# 4   5/6/2015 at 23:58 (872 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Thanks guys for the heads up!
Yes I would intend to just transplant the console - not the whole top.
Paul you are right I think - Inglis used this same style of front panel for decades, long after Whirlpool updated it. The picture below is a late 70's or early 80's machine and it looks like the same front. These show up often enough on Craigslist etc

The door I think could be swapped so the only thing that would be the give away is the design and placement of the lint filter. At some point the trap door style was replaced with a single unit that incorporated the lid and handle into one piece.

The things I'm still not sure of are:
-the wiring
-the number and type of thermostats
-moisture sensor
-the actual mounting of the console. I'm not sure that the newer machines mounted the console the same way as the old ones (with the same placement of screw holes etc)
-whether the later style element is compatible with the old timer and controls

Paul it appears that the Citation line used an actual moisture sensor and not a temp probe like yours and Phil's so this would lend itself better to this project.

Any other insight or suggestions before I decide how to proceed and what I need to keep would be great.

I've also attached a photo that Phil took of whats left of the wiring diagram

Thanks again


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Post# 824723 , Reply# 5   5/23/2015 at 01:39 (856 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture
Hi James,

I missed this thread. I noticed that the door hinges are different from the older ones but you could probably reuse just the handle from the door I sent you. I think the most tricky part will be to mount the console to the top (which is different and quite thin on the fluorescent side). I might be wrong but I think you'll need to drill some holes and maybe block some with body filler and touch paint. I wish the whole top from the older machine would fit but the lint filter isn't located exactly at the same place...

Tell us what you find! In the worst case, I think that any Canadian Kenmore, Inglis or RCA Whirlpool from 1966 or a bit older should work. Unlike the US models, they seem to have the same style of door and front panels.

And I still have the rest of the parts from the machine if you ever need them!


Post# 824726 , Reply# 6   5/23/2015 at 03:21 (856 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Thanks Phil.....

I found a late 70's Inglis made Whirlpool at the local Restore for $40 that I'm trying to transplant the console onto. The WP does have the same kick-panel and door size as the Inglis but I haven't looked at the hinges yet.

Yes you are right - the top has different mounting holes and unfortunately would not work as a retrofit without some modification. However, I was able to drill some holes to make it fit. The top that came with the WP is porcelain instead of painted steel so it is nice but definitely different and there are three holes that are now visible at the top that I'll have to deal with.

The big problem I'm facing is the wiring. The older machines used a different motor and so I'm a bit stumped. In addition, there is some kind of coil switch (assuming it shuts off the machine when the clothes are dry?) that the newer machine does not have and I'm not sure how this is going to work. I've attached a picture below, it's the device on the bottom beside the motor in the 1st pic and a close up in the 2nd.

There is also a door switch from the Inglis with 5 terminals whereas the newer machine only has two.

Thermostats and high limit are all fine. Only difference is the newer machine only has spots for two thermostats (low & high), the older machine has three (low med & high). However the newer machine has a punch out for the third so I can install the med no problem.

I've also attached schematics for both machines, a picture of the push buttons/timer on the Inglis and the motor on the new machine. If anyone has any ideas or insight I'd be very grateful!



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Post# 824731 , Reply# 7   5/23/2015 at 06:23 (856 days old) by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

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James, the coil switch looks like a relay - it's a darned good idea to have one in a dryer like this too.   Swapping the wires from an older motor to one of the newer ones should not be a problem if the wires from the older dryer motor are marked to identify which terminal they go to; the terminal numbers should still be the same. 

 

I'm going to hunt around in my 'Big Book of Whirlpool Dryers' to see if I have a more intact version of the wiring on the older Inglis that might help.  


Post# 824821 , Reply# 8   5/23/2015 at 23:33 (855 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Thanks Paul. If you do happen to find a better scan of the wiring diagram that would be great.

The motor wiring is all marked with the numbers for the terminals so I'll take your advice and just keep it the same then and hope I don't burn the place down!

I'll also just leave this coil relay as is in place. I'll just have to find a spot for it in the new cabinet.

Wish me luck!


Post# 824878 , Reply# 9   5/24/2015 at 11:23 (855 days old) by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

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James, my book of older dryer wiring diagrams ends at 1956 (coincidentally, the oldest WP dryer in my collection is a '56!).   I think I have something that is close to the older Inglis though.  I don't have access to a scanner for the next week, but as soon as I do, I'll scan it and email it to you. 


Post# 824916 , Reply# 10   5/24/2015 at 17:29 (854 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture

Hi James,

 

Here's a picture of the wiring diagram in my RCA Whirlpool dryer. Not exactly like yours but maybe close enough to help... If you need other pics (like one from the motor of your dryer), I can take some more!

 

 


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Post# 824918 , Reply# 11   5/24/2015 at 17:31 (854 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        
I'm stumped....

Well I've hooked everything up and plugged her in and......panel lights up but that's about it!

Timer motor is running constantly and turning it onto an automatic or timed cycle does nothing. I'm sure that it's probably a wiring issue but other than the wiring at the motor end, nothing was re-wired. I just swapped all the thermostats, the coil relay and everything else from the old machine into the new machine (I'm also using the heater from the new machine).

Any ideas?


Post# 824921 , Reply# 12   5/24/2015 at 17:49 (854 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture

I can tell you I didn't disconnect any wire from the timer or the switches in the control panel and that the motor worked when I connected it to 115 volts (and it did stop on the "Off" positions of the timer. I also think I heard the timer motor running while it was at "off" and I was wondering why it seemed to be running on the off position. I haven't even tested my Whirlpool dryer but I noticed that it's written "Start" next to the 5 pushbuttons on both dryers. I don't understand how it works as there's no "stop" button!

 

I'm also busy looking at the wiring on my washer! There must be something that has been modified when they installed a single speed motor so it would run in all the cycles.  


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Post# 824924 , Reply# 13   5/24/2015 at 17:54 (854 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture

As I think about it, maybe your problem is related to the start button on the newer dryer. I don't think there's the equivalent of a momentary pushbutton on the older one. I hope someone like John LeFever will chime in with some ideas too!! 

 

 


Post# 824930 , Reply# 14   5/24/2015 at 18:26 (854 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        
Thanks Phil...

That wiring diagram is probably almost equivalent and is much easier to read than the one on the Inglis.

I'm not entirely sure on the "start" button operation on these older machines either. I understand you select the temperature setting and that starts the machine but I know what you mean - the button isn't momentary so it seems like it would stay "started"

I don't think not having a separate start button has anything to do with it cause I'm using all the existing controls from the old machine. The only "new" parts are the motor, heater and body. So it should function the same as the old one....

I've checked the wiring again and it seems fine so I'm still stumped!


Post# 824947 , Reply# 15   5/24/2015 at 20:16 (854 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
The temp buttons are dual-function. Pressing any of them to "bottom-out" beyond the latch point engages the start function ... like on a Maytag A906, pressing the already-selected button starts or restarts the cycle.


Post# 824963 , Reply# 16   5/24/2015 at 21:15 (854 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture

Thanks for the info DADoES, I wasn't aware of that. I don't recall having to press the button to start the motor when I tested that dryer (on 110V). Hopefully, I'll try on mine tomorrow!


Post# 824967 , Reply# 17   5/24/2015 at 22:34 (854 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        
I'm a loser.....

I wasn't starting the machine properly :( I didn't realize that once you engaged the temperature button you had to push it further to start the machine.

So the machine runs! I haven't put the drum back in yet but ran it and both the motor and heater worked. So far so good!

Only worry I have after have been thinking about it for awhile is the wiring harness. Because the machine controls are on the left hand side (when facing the front), they had to be snaked down that way into the cabinet. However, this is also directly above the heater so I'm not sure if this is going to get too hot.

Still odd though - the timer motor still runs in the off position if the dryer door is opened (door switch is disengaged). Does this seem right?


Post# 824991 , Reply# 18   5/25/2015 at 00:08 (854 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture

Oh that's good news! 

 

The heater is on the left on the older machines too. I don't recall exactly how far the wires were from it in the original cabinet but tomorrow, I'll try to take a picture of mine to show how the wiring is routed and how far it is from the heater. 

 

I guess you'll have to use the door switch from the newer dryer? Does it have a drum lamp?

 

I can't tell about the timer motor, I noticed it seemed to run on the "off" position but I didn't investigate much.

 

Did you fit the console on the top? How does it fit? Were there places to fix the fluorescent lamp ballast and starter on the top of the newer machine?


Post# 825720 , Reply# 19   5/29/2015 at 22:15 (849 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        
So here we go....

The dryer appears to have recovered fully through the transplant surgery :)

I've dried 3 loads of clothes using the automatic cycle and appears all is working fine except for a few quirks.

I used the wiring harness, complete console, drum/germicidal lamp housing, all thermostats, door switch and the coil relay from the old machine. I then swapped all this into the housing of the new machine along with the motor and heater box.

The top did not have the same mounting holes or opening to snake the wiring harness through so I had to drill holes to make this work. Wasn't a big deal but you can see that there is a groove where the old control panel previously sat and three mounting holes are visible. I've put white inserts into these holes so they are less visible until I can find a better solution.

As mentioned, the old lint filter is much shorter than the one used on the new machine so it could not be used. As the lint filter on the new machine is the type that incorporates the top I have not yet installed the lint filter cover until I can get the type that has just the handle/no top instead.

The door hinges are also completely different between the two machines as Phil pointed out. In addition, I could not separate the door and use the old front half with the new rear half as they mount differently to each other. I also can't use the handle from the old machine as it is a different size than the newer plastic handle. So again, for the time being have had to use the door from the newer machine. I'm going to try and find a metal door handle so at least it looks a bit more original - if anyone has one in this size I'd gladly buy it from you.

The new machine also wasn't equipped with a germicidal lamp but did have the indents where the holes would normally be to let the light through and mount the lamp housing. So I just drilled the holes through and used Chicago bolts to fasten it.

This dryer is FAST! The drum is just a standard size but it gets the clothes dry fast.


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Post# 825722 , Reply# 20   5/29/2015 at 22:25 (849 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        
The quirks....

Firstly, the timer motor continues to run in the off position if the door is open. Once I close the door it stops. If I leave the door open it will continue past the off position and into the next cycle. I'm sure this isn't supposed to happen but I'm not well versed enough with the wiring diagram to figure it out. If anyone has ideas I'd appreciate it!

Secondly, although not a quirk, there was no spot to mount the coil relay except the one you can see I mounted it to in the picture. I'm unsure if this is too close to the heater yet. It's made of bakelite and steel, the heater is angled away from it and after a few loads there is no noticeable damage. I believe bakelite is quite heat resistant so I think this should be OK given the temperatures the dryer heats to isn't likely to exceed 250.


Post# 825726 , Reply# 21   5/29/2015 at 22:47 (849 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture
Wow you got a nice result! Congratulations! Does the door from the old lint filter fits over the hole? There are ling lint filters with a recessed handle available for dryers from the late 1960s and early/mid 1970s.

About your timer, does it stopped as supposed with the door closed? I'll have a look at mine to see how it behaves.


Post# 825733 , Reply# 22   5/30/2015 at 00:47 (849 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Thanks Phil - definitely not perfect but I'm still happy with the result. Yes the lint filter cover from the old machine does fit over the opening perfectly. I think the style of lint filter that was used with models that had a separate cover are still available.

As for the timer, yes it does stop at the off position when the machine is running and the door is closed. However, when its in the off position and the door opens the timer motor starts again. The timer part # is 348316.


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Post# 825734 , Reply# 23   5/30/2015 at 02:18 (849 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

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James, I just looked at my dryer and the timer motor does stop when the timer goes to off. It advances when the door is opened but not once it's at the "off" position.

My timer has a different part number and connectors in different locations but it's probably similar in function to yours or interchangeable with it.

The first thing I'd suggest you to check with a multimeter (with the dryer disconnected) is the continuity between the neutral prong of the plug (the "L" shaped one) and the TM1 terminal of the timer (on the upper left corner) with the door closed and with the door opened. You should see that there's continuity when the door is closed but not when it is opened. I think that's your problem and that the neutral side of the timer remains energized when the door is opened. If that seems fine, do the same test with the ground prong of the dryer plug to see what happens (since Canadian dryers have separate ground and neutral connections).

That could be caused by a faulty switch or a neutral wire that's shorted to the ground between the door switch and the timer. Since I think it had the same issue you described before I removed the wiring from the old dryer, I'd suspect the door switch first. How did you adapt the switch to the new dryer? I thought both styles must have been different since the hinges are.

The door switch also cuts the continuity between the "TM" terminal of the timer and one of the "hot" prongs of the dryer plug when the door is closed.


The timer itself should cut the continuity between the "Y" contact and the "TM" contact at the "off" positions on the dial.

If I'm not mistaken, in both the timed and automatic cycles, the timer goes into 3 steps and makes 3 audible "clicks" at the end of the cycle after the third click at the end of both cycles, there should be no continuity between the "Y" contact and the "TM" contact.

I hope I didn't mix things up as I'm a bit tired as I write this (It's now past 4 AM here!)

Here are 3 pictures of my Whirlpool dryer's timer. The 4th and 5th ones are pictures I took of yours.


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This post was last edited 05/30/2015 at 03:46
Post# 825755 , Reply# 24   5/30/2015 at 05:57 (849 days old) by eronie (Flushing Michigan)        
timer

Check the door switch connections . I think you have one swaped . Also germ lamp is on only when door is CLOSED, that light is bad for your eyes. This could be your timer issue. Hope this helps .

Post# 825785 , Reply# 25   5/30/2015 at 10:21 (849 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture

Tony, it's true that the light from germ lights is bad for our eyes but most dryers (and washers!) that use them use the drum/tub illumination light as a ballast for the germ light so they come on together when the machine works and when the dryer's door is opened.

1965 Inglis Superb dryer ozone light

 

Ozone lamp and drum light

 

FRIGIDAIRE DIC-57

 

 

The exception is some late-model Frigidaire Filtrator dryers that use the door heater as a ballast for the germ light instead of the drum light. So in these, the germ light only comes on when the door is closed (or when the door switch is!)

 

(click on the picture to see the video)

 Ozone light in a 1965 Frigidaire Custom Imperial Filtrator dryer.


Post# 826169 , Reply# 26   6/1/2015 at 23:10 (846 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        
You were right Phil....

There is continuity between the neutral wire and the TM1 terminal both with the door open and closed. Therefore I expect this is likely a door switch issue.

To answer your question about the door switch.....it fit as is into the newer style door frame without any modification. The height (when looking at it directly from the switch side) is the same on this 5 terminal switch as the standard switch, it's just the depth that's different so it doesn't have any impact on the fitting into the actuator assembly.

The PN stamped on the switch is 298800 which subs to 239453 at $36. I found one in stock locally but there is also a Gemline version, PN: 16400 which I think I can get from a supplier I know so might try that first.

Interesting to note that it appears the timer may have been replaced at some point. Service documentation indicates the PN to be 298972 however the one in the machine is 348316. As such I'm going to check the wiring one more time too (all switch wiring is correct however)....


Post# 826172 , Reply# 27   6/1/2015 at 23:56 (846 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture
James,
Before you order a new switch, if you want to make sure it's really what's causing the problem (and not the wiring itself or something else that I might have missed), you should just disconnect the wires from it, (one at a time, and isolate the terminal with a piece of tape), to make sure removing one of the wires makes the timer motor stop when the door is opened... I never had such a problem or replaced one of those switches so I can't tell you more!



Post# 834308 , Reply# 28   7/29/2015 at 03:12 (789 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        
Just to close the loop on this....

in case anyone ever has the same issue, it was in fact the door switch. I purchased a Gemline version, PN 164000 that I located locally and the timer no longer runs in the off position with the door open. The replacement door switch had six terminals instead of five but I just capped off the sixth terminal that wasn't used on the original

While I had it apart again I also replaced the rollers, idler pulley and front glide bearing / felt seal. Runs like it's brand spanking new again!

I'm still on the lookout for a metal door handle so if anyone has one for sale please get in touch!

Thanks for everyone's help :)


Post# 834310 , Reply# 29   7/29/2015 at 04:21 (789 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture
Thanks James for the update!

I'm happy to learn that the switch was indeed the problem and that you were able to adapt a replacement.

Now you certainly have a unique dryer, one that probably performs better than the original ever did and that looks like the perfect match for your washer!!


Post# 859254 , Reply# 30   12/31/2015 at 08:19 (634 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
for the record

akronman's profile picture
lots of posts say a 40 watt incandescent bulb works as the ballast for the ozone bulb, but my 1959 Whirlpool dryer for some reason needs a 60 watt, then the ozone bulbs comes on with a nice blue light.

Post# 859276 , Reply# 31   12/31/2015 at 11:36 (634 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture
60 watts? What kind of light bulb is it?

Post# 859291 , Reply# 32   12/31/2015 at 12:38 (634 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
bulb

akronman's profile picture
incandescent, regular Edison base, but small glass bulb like normal appliance bulbs. Standard incandescent bulb.




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