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Thread Number: 59687
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
TL vs FL washer |
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| Post# 822999 , Reply# 1 5/11/2015 at 21:43 (3,264 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada) | ||
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Post# 823018 , Reply# 3 5/12/2015 at 00:51 (3,264 days old) by ea56  (Cotati, Calif.) |
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I realize that many who view this website don't want to recognize that GE still makes a TL that is as close to traditonal as you can get next to the Speed Queen. I have been using mine since July 2012 and I can honestly say that it is one of the best washers I have owned in 45 years of owning washers. I've owned Maytags, Fisher-Paykel, Kenmore, Whirlpool, Frigidaire automatics,wringers, twin tubs, auto TL's and FL's over the years. This GE has never disappointed me. There is no ATC, hot is tap hot. It gives a full fill wash and rinse, there is no locking lid, computer or "load sensing". It has never unbalanced and every load comes out thoroughly clean and rinsed, the first time. The controls are simple electro-mechanical, using an old fashioned timer and the price is very reasonable. In my opinion the GE GTWN2800 is far and away superior to the current breed of Whirlpool TL's, but that is just my opinion. I replaced a Whirlpool Cabrio with this GE. The Cabrio was POS. The only other washer that I was ever as pleased with was a Westinghouse FL, it gave 7 years of trouble free service and we sold it with the house and the new owners used it without problems for several years more. But the new FL's have too much computer control to suit me, so I'll stay away from them.
This post was last edited 05/12/2015 at 01:20 | ||
| Post# 823023 , Reply# 4 5/12/2015 at 02:41 (3,264 days old) by Gpevas (Parma Heights Ohio ) | ||
Top loaders & front loaders?
I have a wringer washer I mostly do my wash in. I used to have a Kenmore top loader that I trashed after 20 years. I just bought a Kenmore Elite front loader. I got the matching dryer which I LOVE!! The front loader in my opinion does NOT get my cloths clean as my wringer washer. I know parts of our country has a water problem (not enough). We in the Cleveland have our lake and other parts of America have no water issues so I wish they sold regular top,loaders like in the past. Just me venting!!
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Post# 823024 , Reply# 5 5/12/2015 at 02:53 (3,264 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN) |
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I switched to FL in 1997. I grew up with Mom's faithful Maytags and can't complain one bit on their function. My first washer of my own was a used GE filterflo...however, way back in 1988 or 89 I was working in the library in high school and on slow days I could sit and look at all those fancy magazines like "Southern Accents" and "Architectural Digest"....and that's when it happened. I saw an ad for a FL washer from Germany. I called the 800 number (no web address imagine that) and had info sent to my house. It had multiple brands in the packet...Miele, AEG, and maybe Bosch. I knew then I'd have one some day. Forward to 1997...I'm getting ready to buy a house and I've found another brand from Sweden...Asko. I like what I see and read about this brand at this time. So...based on the information I'd read and heard up until that time regarding European products and how good Volvo's were back then (I know, a real educated purchase) so I decided to get one. It was a simple machine, all mechanical, heats its own water, etc. It gets delivered and installed. I wash my first load.....I should have popped some popcorn because I was hypnotized. I thought it was going to fly away when it kicked into high speed spin. It cleaned so well! It got out stains the GE crawled away from. It used hardly any water and my detergent use was cut to 1/4 (no HE detergents then). My clothes dried in 20 minutes in that old $50 Whirlpool electric dryer I found at a yard sale. Forward to 2005...the motor goes out on the Asko...so I decide to get a "larger American size" machine to replace it. Got a Maytag (Samsung) Neptune. HATED IT! Too darn big! Returned it to Lowes 2 days later and replaced the motor in the much smaller Asko. You know Everything in America has to be Bigger! Our fridges are bigger, our washers, dryers, food portions, you name it. Bigger is not necessarily better. I personally think these super sized FL machines are going to self-destruct from all the G forces inside with heavy wet clothes. I'm dreading the day my little Asko can't be fixed because it means I'll have to find some electronic piece of junk to replace an outdated mechanical marvel that's now 18 years old and I just installed its 3rd motor. Still cheaper than a new washer.
As Washer111 said above: "My recommendation, personally, would be to find something with more European origins. I still have my reservations about the US style machines (FL)... They seem hideously big for the job they're meant to do."
It's late and I'm sleepy so I'm rambling...sorry....I'll say this...I'm still using the same bath towels and washcloths I bought over 12 years ago in a bundle from Costco.....they aren't worn out yet and they get bleached in hot water several times a week. Mother has replaced hers a few times since I left home after being beaten to death in her faithful old Maytag. And since the FL uses less water even with a prewash and 4 rinses built in (and I mean deep as in half way or more up the door glass), I don't have to skimp on my showers with a tiny little showerhead that has less water pressure than I do. My water bill is cheap and my gas bill even cheaper. And in my big American GE gas dryer, things dry super quick since they are almost dry when they go into the dryer. Just my .02 at almost 3 in the morning. | ||
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Post# 823111 , Reply# 12 5/12/2015 at 17:21 (3,264 days old) by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA) |
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EA56, that's exactly what I'm looking for. I don't know if the new GE will actually give tap hot and full rinse, but I just can't see the big bucks for a FL that may not last. SQ still has tap hot and full rinse but they are very proud of them. | ||
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Post# 823114 , Reply# 13 5/12/2015 at 17:47 (3,264 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.) |
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Cuffs054, that was exactly the way I looked at it too. I know that the current GE GTWN2800 will still give a full fill rinse simply by using the Power Rinse option, And I'm pretty sure that you will still get hot water at the same temp as it comes from your water heater, mine does and I don't see that they have made any changes. If the Speed Queen FL wasn't so expensive, $1,799.99 in my area, plus $79.95 for del. I would consider it as I do feel guilty using so much water during our drought here in Calif. But I conserve water every other way that I can and I really do love my GE TL, it works great, its simple and it completes a super size load in 45-50 mins., plus I can wash a king size comforter or bedspread, saving the expense and inconvenience of going to the laundromat. I can complete a full weeks wash for 2 adult men( except bedding, I change the bed on a different day) in 2 hrs. 15 mins. thats 3 loads washed and dried. To me thats pretty good. I don't often recommend products, but I feel confident that anyone looking for a good, basic, old school washer at a reasonable price (on sale the washer and dryer are approx. $500 to $539 each) will be happy with this machine.
This post was last edited 05/12/2015 at 20:46 | ||
| Post# 823845 , Reply# 14 5/17/2015 at 09:57 (3,259 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
FL washer!!! | ||
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Post# 824004 , Reply# 15 5/18/2015 at 10:37 (3,258 days old) by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA) |
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The search continues. Went to my default site (Sears. Actually Kmart) and found this washer. The best it can offer is a Downy Ball for softner! CLICK HERE TO GO TO cuffs054's LINK | ||
| Post# 824007 , Reply# 16 5/18/2015 at 11:09 (3,258 days old) by electron1100 (England) | ||
Dirty for years
I am puzzled, I have the impression that America washed its clothes in centre post machines for about 40-50 years, now FL machines are making inroads into your country, am I to assume that Americans walked around in grubby clothes for all those years? I think this because of the superior washing claims made for FL machines.
I grew up with twin tubs and FL machines and on the one occasion I had a centre post machine it washed and rinsed really well Also the efficiency of a machine cant be commented on until the machine dies, thinking of one member on here who lives in a European country that produces some of the best machines available chose a machine that was made half way round the world and so had to be shipped from the far east to Europe and it then only lasted 18 months, is this good efficiency I think not. So machines that use as little energy as possible, do get dirty clothes clean all the time and are made in the buyers country and last a good 10 years can be perhaps be considered efficient. Also from what I deduce about machines in America the SQ is a home made machine that is well built and performs well, if they made one with a heater then you might be on to something, other than that sneak over here and buy a European machine :-) If you are going to live in area that does not have water issues why not get a older centre post machine, plenty of help if you need it on here and washday will be so much more FUN :-) Good Luck Gary | ||
| Post# 824015 , Reply# 18 5/18/2015 at 12:37 (3,258 days old) by electron1100 (England) | ||
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amusing
an amusing response in as much as you cannot see that a machine with a short service life does not reflect on its efficiency and ecological impact, to me the two are very much part and parcel of the same deal.
What would be the point of buying a machine that used only 2 ltr of water to do an entire wash if you had to buy a new one every 6 months because it wears out Your Panasonics environmental impact was initially in the country where it was made, then the shipping and transport of the machine from the docks to your home, the time and effort spent trying to get it repaired, this machines claim to be "ECO" friendly is 0. The new rules in France makes absolute sense about the length of Guarantee, the price of parts for the item, this will perhaps keep the public from buying junk just because it is cheap. Expected life should always be factored in to the efficiency rating of a machine Gary | ||
| Post# 824020 , Reply# 20 5/18/2015 at 13:21 (3,258 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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No Grubby Clothes
Most of the conventional agitator TL washers did a great job if you didn't over load them, but they could be rough on clothes. I think the ONLY reason FL washers started making their way into the USA is the need for energy conservation. If you notice when the first entered they were HE (high efficiency), but the ones in EURO weren't, they were just normal front load washers all those years....When we finally get the FL washers becoming popular here, they are all HE....Not to mention that we don't have 220 or 240 voltage for washers....We do for the dryer, range, so why not a washer? I dunno....
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Post# 824054 , Reply# 21 5/18/2015 at 19:28 (3,258 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN) |
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220v
Yeah, the only way to get a 220/240V washer is to get one from across the pond...like Asko, Miele, Bosch, Fagor, Blomberg, etc. I'd gladly buy an American one if I could get it with a true boosted HOT wash for whites! I wish I could build my own. Asko is my favorite due to their front door seal simplicity, but their reliability has gone to pot in recent years.
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| Post# 824068 , Reply# 22 5/18/2015 at 20:56 (3,257 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii) | ||
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| Post# 824075 , Reply# 23 5/18/2015 at 21:25 (3,257 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii) | ||
In all the decades i've been collecting appliances and have seen or had pretty much every method of agitation in washing machines, my preference is front loading washers. Unlike most people who assume they're a new idea,you're wrong. Bendix introduced them back in 1938. They had a pre wash,main wash,three ringers (one spray to remove excess suds and soap scrum, a spin,then two deep rinsed and a final high speed spin dry.) Sound familiar? Yes the Westinghouse Laundronats had a similar method. You can wash shoes,sleeping bags,tents,huge bed spreads,rugs,stuffed toy animals...,etc. Not recommended to be washed in a top loading agitator washer. No sharp agitator gains,lower water usage,lower detergent usage,higher speed spin that extracts more water and no transmission.Flush,lift,turn,tumble about 60 times a minute. Twelve seconds of clockwise tumbling,a three second pause then twelve more counterclockwise. In my LG models, there is no pre set spin direction. A rarity. because the others are set to spin counterclockwise at the factory.Fourteen hundred rpm final spin,huge capacity and a great reputation in CR for most dependable, fewest repairs,great performance and friendly design.i have had mine four years now and got them free from Sallys Shop and Smith's. No washer I ever had before outperformed my LGs. They also have quick cycles. A wash with two rinsed in 35 minutes. I use that for bath towels and daily wardrobe. I use the longer cycles for bed linens, rugs,and Jim's work clothes.Extremely quiet and fun to watch as it gets my clothes spotless.
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Post# 824147 , Reply# 24 5/19/2015 at 10:12 (3,257 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD) |
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My SQ, Creda and both Mieles spin clockwise. | ||
| Post# 824165 , Reply# 25 5/19/2015 at 12:18 (3,257 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK) | ||
It is surprising to hear that some Fl washers in North America don't have heating elements for the water.
Heating elements in modern washers are more efficient and more durable than they used to be. Most European machine these days are cold fill only, however, EBAC, the British washer manufacture are bringing back hot fill as they claim it is quick and cheaper to sue hot fill than for a washer to heat its water, but I am not sure that would suit everyone, although it will be nice t have the option. Front loaders spin faster, are generally quitter, clean clothes better while using less water and energy and take up less space. | ||
| Post# 824173 , Reply# 26 5/19/2015 at 12:52 (3,257 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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It is amazing though
that even at 110 V, my American Duet gets REALLY hot on sanitary. Obviously not boiling hot, but in the 150's F I think, although I think the newer Duets get to the 130s F on Sanitary? I'm not sure why that temp went down and I could be wrong, it's just something I remember reading. But when my Duet is on Sanitary, the outside of the machine feels like dishwasher that's been running a long time, so you know that water is HOT and you know what comes out of there is going to be clean...Having had a built in heater on my washer for ten years, I just couldn't go to one without one, and that's the only reason I wouldn't get a SQ, because I know SQ's are superior quality to the others.
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| Post# 824182 , Reply# 29 5/19/2015 at 15:19 (3,257 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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Wait. | ||
| Post# 824193 , Reply# 30 5/19/2015 at 16:43 (3,257 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
Heaters in Washers  | ||
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Post# 824196 , Reply# 31 5/19/2015 at 17:00 (3,257 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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I don't think so. LG swapped out most of their steam generators for washes at 65°C (150°F) or simmilar on the US models. Everybody still offers Sanatize cycles without Oxi and they need at least 140°F, if not more. Washers with heaters can be found further down the line today. And even TLs now get heaters. | ||
| Post# 824202 , Reply# 32 5/19/2015 at 17:19 (3,257 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room) | ||
>Could you just unplug the dryer and plug the washer into the dryer outlet, then when the wash is done, plug the dryer in?
>LOL - I know that isn't very practical, but I guess if you have easy access to the plugs, you could. More practically, perhaps someone could create an adapter of some sort. Perhaps an adapter that creates 2 outlets out of one. Or perhaps the washer could have a plug that is like Christmas tree lights. Plug it into the dryer outlet, and plug the dryer into the back of the washer plug. However, there would be problems. The big one is that I'm guessing it would only be safe running one appliance at a time. And the washer and dryer would need to be close to each other. They usually are, but I've seen plenty of setups where the dryer is located away from the washer. Indeed, my current laundry room is such a setup, although I think a cord from a washer could still reach the dryer outlet. But I have seen at least 2 basement installations where the washer is quite a distance away. | ||
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Post# 824209 , Reply# 33 5/19/2015 at 17:57 (3,257 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN) |
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Asko If a person has an Asko pair, the washer just plugs into the back of the dryer...and you can use both at the same time. I don't have a pair...my dryer is a GE gas one. I don't like electric dryers. Gas does the same job for much much less $$$ in this part of the country. And it's my understanding that our electricity is cheaper than most other parts of the country due to TVA. | ||
| Post# 824213 , Reply# 34 5/19/2015 at 18:13 (3,257 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
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Nope. | ||
| Post# 824215 , Reply# 35 5/19/2015 at 18:44 (3,257 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii) | ||
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| Post# 824216 , Reply# 36 5/19/2015 at 18:47 (3,257 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii) | ||
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Post# 824217 , Reply# 37 5/19/2015 at 19:00 (3,257 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 824218 , Reply# 38 5/19/2015 at 19:01 (3,257 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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| Post# 824220 , Reply# 39 5/19/2015 at 19:02 (3,257 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US) | ||
I wouldn't be surprised if heaters disappear from dishwashers entirely as well. Ironic, because I've always been told that it takes less energy for a dishwasher with a well placed/well performing heating element to heat the small amount of water than for the water heater to be set to 140+ to have the same effective temperatures.
In my opinion, chemicals are an aid, but shouldn't be relied on entirely for effective cleaning. Any chemicals that are meant to replace natural heat, water , and time can't be good for skin or our environment. | ||
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Post# 824230 , Reply# 40 5/19/2015 at 19:58 (3,256 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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If the washer and dryer shared one outlet, manufacturers could programm/sync the appliances so that the dryer won't start until the washer has finished heating - or the dryer could run on a lower heat setting while the washer heats.
I don't think heating elements are on their way out... but they might be replaced by alternatives like heat pumps. V-Zug already has a dishwasher that combines both heating methods and can still run a full cycle (2x wash, 2x rinse, dry) in 43 minutes if needed. They also have a washer with heat pump and regular heater. | ||
| Post# 824235 , Reply# 41 5/19/2015 at 20:19 (3,256 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
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140 Tank Heat | ||
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Post# 824245 , Reply# 42 5/19/2015 at 21:36 (3,256 days old) by Imperial70 (MA USA) |
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It's scary but true. I think Malcolm is correct. What's next after that. No more heating elements on stoves. Raw uncooked food is more efficient. :-)
That may be a joke, but actually it is scary to think about hot water being a thing of the past. | ||
| Post# 824269 , Reply# 44 5/20/2015 at 01:35 (3,256 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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When was it EVER 170F?
Having a ten year old FL washer, mine heats on Sanitary to the 150s F. I thought the newer Duet/Maytag's etc temp went down to 130, but appnut just said that was allergen, not sanitary....So my ten year old duet and his 2 year old Duet have the same sanitary temp. If that's true, then it didn't go down.
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Post# 824277 , Reply# 46 5/20/2015 at 04:14 (3,256 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN) |
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tankless water heaters | ||
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Post# 824279 , Reply# 47 5/20/2015 at 05:27 (3,256 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 824281 , Reply# 48 5/20/2015 at 05:45 (3,256 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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I live in an all-electric house. I doubt there's enough total power coming into my house to support the added voltage needed to support what's already here plus add what's needed for a tankless electric. Cost a freakin fortune with an electrician. what if I didn't have the money? My kwh/month consumption went down when I got my Whirlpool EnergySmart water heater in 2003 and I can control the temp up to 160 degrees.
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| Post# 824294 , Reply# 50 5/20/2015 at 08:50 (3,256 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
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Bosch Nexxt machines | ||
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Post# 824314 , Reply# 52 5/20/2015 at 11:13 (3,256 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Warning | ||
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Post# 824321 , Reply# 53 5/20/2015 at 11:58 (3,256 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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 Askolover, it'd be interesting to read but the link you provided doesn't work for me. I went to the source site and clicked the article link there, still doesn't work. Several links there don't work. I don't think tankless *electric* water heaters will ever become the unit of choice due to the large instantaneous current demand they pull. Electric utilities like steady loads so they don't have to keep a lot of reserve capacity available. Gas tankless units are fairly popular. They also pull a large gas draw but that's generally less of a concern/problem than a sudden uptick in electric amperage draw. That being said, I do like my electric tankless (which I didn't choose, it was already in the house I bought). It's small, wall-mounted, requires no venting, and can produce heated water at any temp from 50°F to 140°F for as long as the water runs. I keep it set at 102°F (which helps keep the electric demand draw down) for showering, adjust as needed for washing clothes or occasional hand-washing dishes, dishwasher has on-board heating. | ||
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Post# 824359 , Reply# 56 5/20/2015 at 17:41 (3,256 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Group 2a
HE top loaders with recirculation are available from Whirlpool, Maytag, GE, Samsung, Fisher & Paykel and probably others. The one big brand without this feature would be LG. Instead, these washers use WaveForce (if so equipped) to throw water over the load as the drum spins during the wash ->
CLICK HERE TO GO TO logixx's LINK | ||
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Post# 824408 , Reply# 57 5/20/2015 at 23:47 (3,255 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN) |
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Vacbear The link was to waterheaterrescue.com When I click on it it works and my Norton didn't kick it out. I've been reading that site for years without any problems. I don't know what the trouble is.
DaDoes - I just now went to the site and clicked every link and they work for me. Who knows what's going on? | ||
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Post# 824411 , Reply# 58 5/20/2015 at 23:54 (3,255 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN) |
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Bleach Asko says bleach isn't "recommended or required" in my machine, but I've been using it for 18 years no problems...and it has stainless inner and outer drums. No crud build up either. I can take the paddles out and there are large access holes in the inner drum to retrieve any items that may have gotten in between. The outer drum is still shiny all the way around! | ||
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Post# 824433 , Reply# 60 5/21/2015 at 05:28 (3,255 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 824444 , Reply# 61 5/21/2015 at 07:00 (3,255 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Post# 824475 , Reply# 63 5/21/2015 at 10:55 (3,255 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Ah yes, Staber!
www.staber.com/washingmachines... They don't get mentioned much here. Anyone bought one lately? | ||
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Post# 824479 , Reply# 64 5/21/2015 at 12:03 (3,255 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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@qualin Give me 20 years and if everything works out like I'd like, you'll have them ;) Just today on the way home I thought: Why not a Westinghouse FL style cabinet with a drum simmilar to a EU TL? Would seriously be quite an innovation... | ||
| Post# 824514 , Reply# 65 5/21/2015 at 15:24 (3,255 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room) | ||
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>What I can't understand is why there isn't more traditional top loading machines which have spin cycles which match that of front loaders.
My assumption is that washers with higher spin speeds end up being more expensive to make. At one time, energy was cheap and seemingly endless, and so reducing drying time was probably considered of little importance. When energy costs did go up for the first time, companies were stuck with older washer designs, and re-engineering was probably expensive. There may have been the mentality of "spend as little to address energy savings as possible." A cold water rinse as standard is easier/cheaper than a revised transmission... | ||
| Post# 824533 , Reply# 66 5/21/2015 at 17:09 (3,255 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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Good point.
Are SQ's made as well now as they were 30 years ago? Who knows. But I'm sure they are still better made than the others.
Now, I know back in 2005, when I bought my Duet and started acct on this forum and another forum, (back then) - and people were talking about everything being "JUNK" today (back in 2005) and not made like it used to be, so that hasn't changed ten years later. I would have never believed after years of hearing spiders failing, control boards, explosions from spinning, etc, that my washer would still be working great. It would be interesting to know whether they have cheapened the washers even more than in 2005, because on my Duet, I was sure the handle would break because it's a very cheap handle, but I've always been careful with it. Could it be just luck? Or my washing habits? Who knows... | ||
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Post# 824692 , Reply# 67 5/22/2015 at 20:30 (3,253 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.) |
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This post has been removed by the member who posted it. | ||
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