Thread Number: 59838  /  Tag: Vintage Dishwashers
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Post# 824943   5/24/2015 at 19:47 (3,230 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        

So, I've been away for awhile. But I just can't stay away from this amazing site.
And have been trying so hard to get over the shock and disappointment of losing out on that KitchenAid. I'm STILL beating myself up for it and it's been 6 months!
Although, in trying to make myself feel better these days, I just remind myself that it was the SELLER who screwed it up in the end, and not me. I just feel I could have done better to get it sooner.
But I'm digressing.......
In coming back on here in the last few days, and especially today, I decided to go back to the hunt for a KA.
Well......maybe it's true that sometimes we have to wait, &/or suffer, &/or ?????
I didn't find one (possible) score, but TWO! And if the first one isn't amazing enough, the second one is gonna make you all drool.
And I am NOT going to get my hopes up at all until I know I have paid and picked them up!!! No dreaming and hoping this time.
The first item was just posted two weeks ago so good odds it's still available.
The other was posted a month ago, so I guess if it's still listed, then it's still available.
The price is right on BOTH but the second one is a great price for what it is.
Interestingly enough, this would have been my two models of choice to have all along for the differences in both of the machines. And the control panel on the first one is awesome.
Pics are attached, unfortunately there is only one pic of the first machine though.
Enjoy and everyone PLEASE......
Wish me luck!
;)
P.S.-Glad to be back and reading about your stories and adventures.
You all inspire me and comfort me.
Thanks


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Post# 824955 , Reply# 1   5/24/2015 at 20:48 (3,230 days old) by hippiedoll ( arizona )        
welcome back...

hippiedoll's profile picture
Twintubber/scott!
Wishing you the best of luck on both kitchen aides!
Keeping my fingers crossed for you & sending positive vibes your way...

;o)


Post# 825022 , Reply# 2   5/25/2015 at 05:01 (3,230 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
I love the machine in the first picture!

chachp's profile picture

But I worry about the SS controls.  Aren't those nearly impossible to find if they go out or have I been staying away from them for the wrong reasons?

 

Now that 19?? with the stainless panels is a beauty.  Parts for those are all over eBay and many folks on this site are eager to help with replacement parts as well.  That one gets my vote if it is still available.

 

Don't get me wrong I'd LOVE to have the machine with the Solid State controls in the first picture but at the same time I want machines that I know I can keep running for years to come.

 

Good luck getting a machine!!


Post# 825046 , Reply# 3   5/25/2015 at 08:35 (3,230 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Go, for Broke!

Not a really hard decision to make here.. GET THEM BOTH!!
Install the Selectra and when it finally dies, install the 19!

As Ralph has mentioned, the Selectra's were prone to circuit board failures, but this seems to be a later version than the Hobart built boards and according to John L, the WP built ones were a bit more dependable.

However, none of these are available to serve as service replacements. So when they crap out, you are out of luck unless by some miracle you can find a replacement.
I have always searched for one of these just for the conversational value and the high tech look of it which makes it as contemporary today as it was when they were readily available.

The 19 is a great dishwasher but be mindful that it does not have the heated drying system and dries by means of the residual heat of the dishware inside the machine. I wold double insulate the tank, top, sides and bottom if you can to keep more of the heat inside the tank. K/A strongly recommended that it not be installed on a cold outside wall as well. Stupid thoughts on their part as most people will not rearrange their kitchens to achieve better drying results. Just use a good detergent and Rinse agent is a must on this series of machines.

And if you do get both machines, you will have many interchangeable spare parts for either of them like the racks and water valves and rinse/detergent dispensers.


Post# 825054 , Reply# 4   5/25/2015 at 09:50 (3,230 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        

Hi hippiedoll! Thanks for the welcome and the well wishes for me.

Hi chachp! I agree with everything you said and would definitely worry a bit about the SS controls. But that's a risk one takes for such a beauty of a machine. As you said, it still looks modern enough and the SS controls make it look even more advanced for it's time and would be a fine addition to any modern kitchen. And fun to use I'm sure.

Hi stevet! I was going to get them both. And I would have too. But the message came in this morning that the SS controls model is gone. Oh well.....
It's the SS front paneled one that I REALLY want. The true, classic Hobart made "Hurricane-in-a-Box" machine.
But, I thought it was a KDS20. How are you and chachp able to tell it's a 19 and not a 20?
And thanks for the tip about the drying.
I had hoped to have that feature since KA was the only company that ever got fan drying correct by sanitizing the air BEFORE it went into the chamber with the freshly sanitized dishware.
I hope it's there. And get this, it's being sold from the world famous Fairmont Royal York Hotel. That's the Royal Families' "Home-Away-From-Home" when they are in Toronto. Maybe it was used for or even by Royalty to clean the crystal glasses and fine china? Pha Pha!
Just made arrangements a few minutes ago to go see another one this week, but much more of a modern KA.
But a reasonable price, even if it is a white panel and controls and a full WP made machine.
And a NEVER USED portable Inglis (Whirlpool) from about mid-eighties.
I'm tryin' and I'm gonna get me one of these KA's very soon!!!!!




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Post# 825055 , Reply# 5   5/25/2015 at 09:53 (3,230 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
And if THAT"S not enough.....

My dream would be to have a KitchenAid KDS20 as my primary machine and a Maytag RR machine as my secondary machine.
Well.....look what I just found posted 22 hours ago.
And only $45.00 dollars at that!


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Post# 825059 , Reply# 6   5/25/2015 at 10:05 (3,230 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
Difference between 19 and 20

chachp's profile picture

I used to get them confused all the time and truth be told if you hadn't posted a close up of the buttons I would likely not have known.  I have a 20 and mine is an Energy Saver V.  The one you posted is a IV and the cycles are a little different.

 

Steve is the real expert, he may have known by just looking at a picture of the front of the machine (you know that full frontal) but I would need to see a close up of the buttons.

 

Love the RR machines as well.  Get the KA and RR then you can switch them out or install both!!


Post# 825060 , Reply# 7   5/25/2015 at 10:07 (3,230 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
Two more-both FREE!!!

Ok, not KA's, but very nice Kenmore's.
Especially for free.


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Post# 825071 , Reply# 8   5/25/2015 at 12:01 (3,230 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
Focus!!

chachp's profile picture

LOL.


Post# 825073 , Reply# 9   5/25/2015 at 12:20 (3,230 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
I know, they're EVERYWHERE!!!!!

So here's the update.
The best of it all is happening so far.
I'm off to look at the Maytag in about an hour.
He's going to show it to me although it is not hooked up. But he will hold it for me until I can pick it up this weekend.
And I JUST heard from the seller of the SS paneled KitchenAid.
I can go and look at it any night this week. I just replied and asked as well if they can hold it until the weekend if I come and pay for it first.
Sounds like it's working out so far, the two machines I've wanted for a long time both coming in on the same day (possibly). WOW-"Dishwasher Heaven"!!!
Not gonna get TOO excited though, last time I suffered for doing that.
But I'm confidant this will work out.
Of course it'll sound like a Hurricane AND a tornado ripping through my kitchen when both of those vicious washing machines are operating at the same time.
I'll just crank some Jimmy Buffet and have a cheeseburger with a margherita while their doing the dirty work.
Oh, the Maytag is $45.00. The KitchenAid is $75.00.
If I pay full price for both of them then that's not a bad deal for $120.00
P.S.-the white WP style KitchenAid is available for me as well and so is the never used Inglis. All have offered to show me the machines in the next few days.
Phew!!!!!


Post# 825106 , Reply# 10   5/25/2015 at 16:32 (3,229 days old) by barcoboy (Canada)        

barcoboy's profile picture
Welcome back Twintubber... good to see you again.

I believe, and someone will correct me if I am wrong, is that the way you can tell it's a 19 is that it was the only model to not have the heated dry as stevet mentioned... KA brought it back with the 20 series. So the "No Heat Dry" cycle indicator light, plus the lack of an "Energy Saver" button, is a sure giveaway.

I do prefer the 19 over an 18 for one reason... the longer upper wash arm. The 18's upper wash arm is shorter and doesn't get to the back of the rack. Of course it's not a real problem with the 1/2 HP motor and pump pushing your water around, and the option is always there to swap out an upper rack from a higher model into an 18. I very rarely use heated dry on my 18, but the other thing that disappeared with the 19 never to return again on a Hobart KA is the constant rinse arm. That I think I would miss if I were to jump up to a 19.

Best of luck in getting your KA!


Post# 825120 , Reply# 11   5/25/2015 at 17:57 (3,229 days old) by hippiedoll ( arizona )        

hippiedoll's profile picture
Still sending them positive vibes your way & keeping my fingers crossed for you too!!

;o)

I'm getting excited for you on this side of the computer. Hope you hey the stainless steel one. I like the look of that one! Keep us posted...


Post# 825145 , Reply# 12   5/25/2015 at 19:59 (3,229 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
So far it's all a done deal.

I think your well wishes and positive vibes are working for me, hippiedoll-THANKS!!!
I didn't get out to see the Maytag today cause the location wasn't where it was listed in the ad. Nor was the KitchenAid.
But, both sellers will wait for me to come by tomorrow or Wed. to view and pay. Then I have a person set to pick them both up and deliver them to me for $90.00.
If I pay full asking price for the machines and the delivery that's a total of $210.00. Not a bad deal for what I'm getting, I think.
Then I can sell-off both of my Bosch's and get finally get rid of them.
I think I noticed in the pics that the KA has no silverware basket, just the small items basket. I may ask for a few dollars less for it due to that part missing.

Hey barcoboy! Good to hear from you! Thanks for the kind words. Although it is disappointing that the one model I find has a one-time "flaw" from the manufacturer. At least for me a heated dry is my least worried about feature since I never use a heat dry anyway. But it would be nice to have it there if I ever did. Sigh.......
I had the model you speak of briefly when I lived in Vancouver many years ago. I hated that thing so much. It never cleaned well and that short upper spray-arm was a definite drawback. Looking back though, I wonder if it just needed a good cleaning and overhaul to get it working properly again. And I definitely agree about the constant rinse being discontinued after that model and what a poor decision I thought that was. Especially since top spray was being incorporated into more and more machines around that time. Since I had had recent experience with the Maytag RR system in the rental before, I learned to love that machine and system so much.

Anyway, if all works out and I do get them both, the KA will be for the pots/pans, casseroles, and everyday dishes glasses and silverware. The Maytag will be devoted mainly to Tupperware as that is how I have both both machines currently set-up.
I'm giddy but not getting to excited still. Never know what COULD happen!
:O


Post# 825514 , Reply# 13   5/28/2015 at 08:29 (3,227 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
And the story is.....

I bought the KitchenAid yesterday. What a score!!!
This baby has seen very little use and if it did see much use, it was very well cared for.
I was told by the owners that they had bought the house about a year ago and everything in it was immaculate.
One thing I can say about working on appliances, and I'm sure many or most of you would agree, that dishwashers are one of the most disgusting appliances to work on. All that caked on crud and food spillage buildup on the exterior, (controls, handles, gaskets, door seals, balancing springs, etc.), but this baby is sooooo clean. Even underneath there is NO gunk build up, no muck in the corners of the door or in the seals, no "film" on the exterior or even on or around the motor. It is literally almost showroom new. The stainless steel front looks very impressive on this machine and I got it for a steal. Because it is missing the silverware basket, (something I noticed in the pictures they provided), I was able to get it for $60.00. It's in such great shape that it's pretty much "plug-&-play" when I get it delivered. It just needs some dusting off of the cobwebs underneath the unit and a very light wiping down with some vinegar and it's ready to use!
Woo Hoo!!!!!
Can't believe I FINALLY got a genuine Hobart KitchenAid :)
It definitely is the KDS-19 model and not the 20.
For those of you who know, perhaps one could tell me the date of manufacture?
Model=KDS-19C
Spec=27419
Serial=99-506934
The people were really nice and although wished they could have kept and used it themselves, (they renovated and only had room for an 18" after that), they were both absolutely thrilled that it was going to a collector who would use it and appreciate it for it's value. They very much KNEW what they had and were parting with and did not want to see it end up in a dump or used for scrap.
As for the Maytag, well........it's pretty nasty inside.
Still installed in a house to be reno'd starting next week with no power so I couldn't test it. An absolute BOL model, but that's ok in a Maytag RR system.
It's got a film on a lot of the interior, which I'm hoping is just calcium that can be cleaned with a cycle of CLR run through it. The racks though, look like somebody splattered hair dye all over them and is rather ugly looking. But it's in good condition otherwise, and is definitely a belt-drive, (yay!), albeit a later model of the belt-drive as the lower rack configuration verifies.
The problem though, is that I have to go back there today to uninstall it myself, and then have it picked up tomorrow or Sunday. And he's only lowering the price by $5.00 even though I'm providing the labour.
I don't mind though and I will take the machine because it's only $40.00 now and I can have it as a project to work on and get fixed up and cleaned up and hopefully running smoothly.
Model=WU203
Serial=650205 TL
So, in all, both machines cost me a total of $100.00-(tax included!) ;) The delivery charge at this point has been flat-rated at $90.00. Not a bad investment I'd say.
Thanks again to ALL of you for your words and well wishes in my endeavour to get these items.
I have been waiting for GOOD classic dishwashers to come along for a very long time now.
I can't WAIT to finally get rid of both of my Bosch's!

Oh, the Maytag seller's house is empty (had to wait for him to arrive). Told me I could look around and take whatever I wanted. So I asked about a washer & dryer. "Of course", he said and as we were going down to the basement he said, "They are old too, though".
I replied that I expected that. And sure enough..........
A roughly 1980 model Maytag in White and an 1975-77 GE Medallion dryer in Spanish Avocado.
Wish I could have a full-sized top-loader in my apt, cause I'd take that washer no problem.
Gonna ask a Friend if she wants it even though she will protest she doesn't need a new washer-until I convince her a Maytag is an investment.
And he wants $150.00 for the set. A bit much, but things are negotiable. If I even need to deal with the washer at all.
Enough of my rambling.
Have to get going soon to uninstall the machine then some and shopping after that.
Have a great day all!!!


Post# 825533 , Reply# 14   5/28/2015 at 12:03 (3,227 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
It look like around 1979 - 1981

chachp's profile picture

Others may have more exact dates.  Congrats on your finds.  Can't wait to see more pictures.


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Post# 825544 , Reply# 15   5/28/2015 at 14:16 (3,227 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
Thanks chachp

I had a feeling this model was between 1977-81, based on the #'s I was given when I was going to get the KDS-20C last November. So I was pretty close.
Here's a few pics I took of it, but I have only 2 pics of the Maytag's Model/Serial tag.
I did take pics of the washer & dryer though, so I'll post those for you all as well.
The Maytag dishwasher is gonna be a lot of work. It's really filthy. The opposite of the KA. Which is good in one way, at least ONE gets to go in and used right away until I can work on the other one, rather than having TWO messy machines to have to deal with.
And either there was a mouse problem in the past, or since the house has been empty there has been some cause there was a fair bit of mice dropping on top of the machine when I pulled it out. I sure hope it can be rescued cause the price was ok for it.
I'll keep you all posted on it's progress, of course.
They should be able to be picked up and delivered on Sunday.


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Post# 825546 , Reply# 16   5/28/2015 at 14:30 (3,227 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
And lurking in the basement.....

It was very dark down there, so the flash had to do most of the work.

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Post# 825721 , Reply# 17   5/29/2015 at 22:20 (3,225 days old) by barcoboy (Canada)        

barcoboy's profile picture
Nice pics!

If you really want to add the heated dry to your 19, I believe it can be done. Stevet is the man that can tell you for sure, but I think I remember reading here somewhere about somebody who did so.

Make sure that your water is hot, that the dishwasher fills to the correct level, and keep the filter mesh clean. Your "new" hurricane in a box will not disappoint.

Congrats again!


Post# 825815 , Reply# 18   5/30/2015 at 16:35 (3,224 days old) by hippiedoll ( arizona )        
CONGRATULATIONS

hippiedoll's profile picture
Twintubber/Scott!!
I'm so happy for you that you finally got the dishwasher you have been wanting & looking for!
There's nothing to compare that feeling of accomplishment, when you finally get the machine you've been really wanting.

Again, I'm so happy for you.
WOOOOHOOOO!!!

:o)


Post# 825821 , Reply# 19   5/30/2015 at 17:01 (3,224 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture

Congratulations Scott, I hope you'll enjoy them!


Post# 825841 , Reply# 20   5/30/2015 at 20:26 (3,224 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
Thanks Everybody!

The machines are being picked up tomorrow night. I'm so excited!!!
Not sure if I'll be able to do much by the time it's all done around about 9p/m.
But I'll try to post a video of the "arrival" of them and especially the KA at least and post it and then install the KA on Monday if I have the time. Otherwise it will be definitely done by Tuesday.
The Maytag, sadly, is going straight onto the balcony for a while and I have the tarp already for it.
It will really need work and since I don't NEED to install it right away, I can get to it in a couple of weeks or so.
The fun and thrill of the KithenAid will be enough to outdo it anyway since that's gonna keep me occupied and fascinated for a few weeks as it is. I know the Maytag well, the KA I don't. Therefore the fun and new learning and experiences are with the KA first. Plus it's all clean and ready to use.
Woo Hoo!!!!! The fun begins :)


Post# 825997 , Reply# 21   5/31/2015 at 19:56 (3,223 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
It's all done!

And the KitchenAid KDS-19C is on it's maiden test cycle-Soak & Scrub, of course :)
I want to analyse that cycle entirely and I think it's best to use the heaviest and highest heating cycle in an older/used dishwasher to really clean it out for it's first run without dishware..
The drain hoses I have aren't working and are leaking a bit. I saw the water after a few drains and was hoping that it WASN'T the machine!
Thankfully, it wasn't.
I'll deal with that tomorrow.
I did two Rinse & Hold cycles to make sure it worked and no leaks, etc.
Now it's running that full cycle and cleaning the filter out with it.
Some pics attatched for you all.
I'm so Giddy I'm like, 15 years old again. And it is an 80"s model so I'm like, totally freakin'!
I'd ask someone to like, 'Gag me with a spoon', but they need to like, totally go through the KitchenAid FIRST!
Like, Oh my ga-awd!!!
;)
And, if you look closely at pic #15, you see the numbers 1-4 on the spray arm tubes.


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Post# 825999 , Reply# 22   5/31/2015 at 20:05 (3,223 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        

Pics 1-3 is the filter after a very quick and easy brush scrubbing.
Pics 4-5 with some water poured in to moisten the seal and check for any leaks before starting up the machine.
Pic 6 with the filter in and ready for the first Rinse & Hold cycle and the small broken glass collector in the small items basket in the top rack.


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Post# 826000 , Reply# 23   5/31/2015 at 20:18 (3,223 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        

Pics 1-2 is the first Rinse & Hold cycle.
Pic 3 is the second Rinse & Hold cycle. (I rotated the filters inside the machine to give them equal coverage).
Pic 4 is the beginning of the Soak & Scrub cycle with the Sani Heat light activated.
All is working well so far.
It's now halfway through the cycle now and I just rotated the filters again to ensure complete coverage.
It sure is powerful!!!!!


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Post# 826002 , Reply# 24   5/31/2015 at 20:32 (3,223 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
Seriousely???

I can actually HEAR the water being steamed inside the dishwasher when the Sani phase kicks in. My computer chair is 2 feet away from the door of it and I can hear it literally within SECONDS of starting up in each phase.
I could also hear it across my living room, about 10 feet away steaming up inside!
It sounds like a huge "mist" storm.
What an incredible machine.
I'm so fascinated by it since it also a new "type" of machine in my entire life's experiences ever using.
Woo Hoo!!!


Post# 826009 , Reply# 25   5/31/2015 at 21:08 (3,223 days old) by barcoboy (Canada)        

barcoboy's profile picture
Yep, the sani heater kicking in is a great sound... sounds just like a kettle about to boil a pot of water. It surprised me too on my 18 when I heard it the first time.

Sounds like you are having fun!


Post# 826053 , Reply# 26   6/1/2015 at 08:46 (3,223 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
It Works!

And it works well!!!
@ barcoboy-Yep, I sure am. That "hissing", "misting" "steam-boiling" sound is pretty intense actually.
I got one very FULL load done last night. I was gonna post some pics I took of the final results of my first load, but I was so tired by then that I had to go to bed. So I'm posting them now.
Having a relaxing morning and getting ready to do a couple more loads and some, well, housecleaning today.
I may post some pics of the Maytag later if I get around to it.
Thanks again to everyone for your replies and well wishes!

Pics 1-3 the inside cleaned up nicely after a full run-through on Soak & Scrub with no dishware.
Pics 4-10 the final results!!!




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Post# 826056 , Reply# 27   6/1/2015 at 09:00 (3,223 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
Oh my, what's this all about???

Here's something interesting that one would NEVER notice with the machine is fully installed.
Makes me wonder what the underside of the many countertops that these dishwashers were built-in under look like after the many years that these machines lasted and were operated.
It's fairly clear in the pics that the 'steam vapour tail' went almost across to the other side of the unit.
These pics were taken during the final Sani-Rinse on the Heavy Wash cycle so the machine had been in operation for a while at this point.
There were still a few drops of water on the glass top this morning.
For those of you who don't recognize this machine &/or it's parts, that blue part where the steam vapour is coming from is the fill valve where the water enters the tub when filling.
Yikes!!!!!!!!


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Post# 826082 , Reply# 28   6/1/2015 at 12:49 (3,223 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
An all plastics load

with no silverware basket.
I opened the door quickly and caught some pics during that first few seconds of steam flying out of the dishwasher. It was pretty cool.
Also, some more pics of that venting issue from the fill valve.



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Post# 826117 , Reply# 29   6/1/2015 at 17:19 (3,222 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
And an intense load

I put my heavy KitchenAid enameled pots in.
They say things like this shouldn't go through the dishwasher, yet even in the early days of advertising in their brochures, KitchenAid always showed a cast iron enameled pot in the before/after pictures for the Soak & Scrub cycle.
And so I figured, KitchenAid-meet KitchenAid :)
They came out beautifully. And they had sat for a while waiting to meet this dishwasher.
There were only minute bits of rust around the rim, very very little, which is what I knew why people didn't put them in the dishwasher. It scrubs off easily though with a clean scrubbie pad.
I do have an issue with the bottom seal between the door and the tub.
It's slid to the left and is causing a leak in the front of the machine. I have tried to slide it back to the right, but a part of it has slipped off in the middle and won't "catch up" to make it all smooth. It's like trying to close a Ziploc bag that is slightly 'off'-SHEESH!!!
The thing washes beautifully though.
The first load showed it's weaknesses, and I planned it that way. So now I know how to load it to get the best results.


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Post# 826121 , Reply# 30   6/1/2015 at 17:32 (3,222 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
And now, the Maytag

Here's a few pics of it as it is.
Dirty and in rough shape inside, but I love it and it's still my favorite dishwasher of ALL time.


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Post# 826133 , Reply# 31   6/1/2015 at 19:12 (3,222 days old) by whitetub (Montreal, Canada)        

Congratulations on getting these nice dishwashers...two classics..

Now you need to get yourself a real Kitchenaid silverware basket. Otherwise, it just does not look right.

Enjoy your machines


Post# 826291 , Reply# 32   6/2/2015 at 15:36 (3,221 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
Hi whitetub!

Actually, I'm quite glad it didn't come with the silverware basket.
Not only did it get the price lowered from the seller, but I wouldn't have used it anyway. Never had any intention of it either.
It's just too big for me. I like a very small silverware basket so I can have as much usable space for dishware and cookware. And I like it near the back-not at the front of the rack.
The one I'm using right now is from my newer Bosch it's slightly larger than the one from my older Bosch, and I'm not sure I want to use it either. I may switch it for the smaller one again and include the larger basket with the Bosch when I sell it.
I also have a basket from a GE I had a few years ago before I got the second Bosch and I used it today in the KA as well to see if I like it's placement in the machine better.
You can see my configurations in the pics attached.
I did a very mixed load on Normal and it came out almost perfect.
Tilted rack too for this load.


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Post# 826295 , Reply# 33   6/2/2015 at 16:04 (3,221 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
The ACTUAL Final Rinse Sani Temperature?

I'm a bit confused about the actual temperature for the final Sani-Rinse in my machine.
Prior to the 19, it seems that all the machines heated to 180oF.
The Sales Brochure for my KDS-19 that I downloaded from this site, states:

+All models have a dual element Sani Heat Element. Both elements, or 1400 watts, automatically heat standing water to:
*150F-during the two soak periods of Soak & Scrub Cycles
*150F-before circulation of the first rinse or pre-wash of all complete wash and dry cycles (second rinse for Heavy Wash)
*150F-before circulation of the final rinse of all complete wash and dry cycles
One element, or 700 watts, helps to maintain and even raise circulating water temperature during the applicable rinses and main washes of all complete wash and dry cycles.

Now, in the Operating Manual for the KDS-20, (which I almost got last November), that I also downloaded from this site, states:

SANI HEAT LIGHT
Light comes on when water in the dishwasher is being heated to approximately 150F (66C). It also comes on for the last rinse of the Sani Cycle when the water is heated to approximately 165F (74C).
Whenever the light is on, there is a pause in the wash action.

I can only assume from all the brocheres, Instruction Manuals, and user's experiences on here, that I am only getting a 150F final rinse in ANY of my cycles.
ANd that seems exclusive to only the 19, as the 20 obviously was raised to 165.
Can anyone explain this fully to me?
Thanks!


Post# 826569 , Reply# 34   6/4/2015 at 09:20 (3,220 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
My final silverware basket decision.....

I'm sticking with the smaller basket from the Bosch.
And it fits better than the larger one without scratching or damaging the finish on the tines from fitting it in and constantly removing and replacing it when unloading it. It fits perfectly actually. You can se in the pics how the left 'pin' fits into a spot on the basket and helps to keep it secure.
Here's a few pics of how it's set-up now.
I'm sure you can see the vast increase in capacity of the lower rack by utilizing a much smaller silverware basket.


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Post# 826572 , Reply# 35   6/4/2015 at 09:24 (3,220 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
Upper Rack

Also, I'm keeping the upper rack tilted, (for now, anyway).
Both for extra space in the bottom for items in the silverware basket, but also for better drainage for some of my coffee mugs.
I usually don't like a tilted rack, but it seems to work ok with this machine and it feels "good", so far!
Lovin' mah KitchenAid

:)


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Post# 826575 , Reply# 36   6/4/2015 at 09:39 (3,220 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
Suddenly, it's a "One-Arm Bandit"

I finally got to put the KA to the ultimate test this morning.
My garbage cans.
I usually run these through the dishwasher once a month.
The Bosch has a removable upper rack and a spray head to put over the spout that feeds the upper spray arm during the cycle.
In the KA, the rack comes out easily enough, and the manual shows how to do so anyway. You can see the pins on the glass top on the dishwasher and the spout in the machine between the bins in the last pic.
And my bins fit BETTER in this machine than they ever did in the Bosch.
Not only that, but after the final rinse, I opened the machine as I usually do to shake of all the water and water that collects in the grooves.
Then let the machine finish the "No-Heat" dry portion of the cycle.
I couldn't believe how dry it actually came out.
With the Bosch, they came out of the cycle so wet, that they had to dry overnight to be ready for use again.
WOW!!!
Great machine.
Pics are AFTER the washing/drying process was complete.
Oh, Soak & Scrub Cycle for these guys!


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Post# 826586 , Reply# 37   6/4/2015 at 10:49 (3,220 days old) by whitetub (Montreal, Canada)        

Cool. That's a lot of garbage cans...

I find that silverware basket way too small for me, but it's your machine.

How tall a glass can you fit on the lowest side of the tilted upper rack?



Post# 826592 , Reply# 38   6/4/2015 at 11:31 (3,220 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture
I guess it would be easier to use the Maytag reverse rack or a 17 series KA or earlier to wash garbage cans as you don't have to deal with the center spray arm outlet (did you have to block it?)

I like to wash plastic items in the dishwasher as hand washing them to get rid of the oily residues is difficult. I don't think I'll try to wash garbage cans in my Spray-Tube Frigidaire though as there's no wash action under the lower rack!


Post# 826595 , Reply# 39   6/4/2015 at 12:10 (3,220 days old) by whitetub (Montreal, Canada)        

It would be hard to fit in a garbage can in the Maytag reverse rack. Because of the center tower, and the shape of the bottom rack.

Post# 826596 , Reply# 40   6/4/2015 at 12:20 (3,220 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture

embarassed  You're right, I didn't think about the elevated center section and tower! The garbage cans would have to be short ones!!


Post# 826633 , Reply# 41   6/4/2015 at 19:50 (3,219 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
It's only 2 cans actually

The one black part is a liner that fits into the white part and then there is the top for it. And one other bin. So it's actually only 2 garbage cans, but one is taken apart.
Yes, I've done cans in the Maytag RR before.
I figured out a very clever way to do so too.
You remove BOTH racks, then you 'place' the upper rack into the lower racks place and over the spray tower.
Then you load the cans around the spray tower and, BOOM, you're back at the Mall!!!

I find North Americans prefer a much larger silverware basket than is usually necessary.
It's all personal choice, of course, but I think they make them far too big in NA. I remember years ago when Sears dropped the "In-The-Door" silverware basket for that ridiculousely oversized silverware rack on the entire right side of the rack.
The adding of a "Bull-Nose" front rack did absolutely nothing to make up for an utterly incompetent design flaw.
I need as much space for dishes and cookware as I can since I have doubles of almost everything. Especially lots of room for pots.
One would be amazed how much I can stuff into that silverware basket and get excellent cleaning results every time.
And it is ONLY for silverware. It is not for mixed items.
Small items and plastic 'thingy's', etc. go in the other dishwasher-not the main one which is solely for dishes, cutlery and cookware. (Except for now while I use just the KA for a couple of weeks, then no more plastics).

One of my main reasons for having two dishwashers is that the second one is usually for all of my plastics. I have a ton of Tupperware (the real stuff btw), and lots of larger pieces of it in the collection as well.
Running them through the dishwasher gets them nicely clean and degreased, etc.

And yeah, a spray tube dishwasher pro'lly wouldn't be too accommodating to large cans as such.

I'll post a pic or two tomorrow of the upper rack with my tallest items in it.


Post# 826856 , Reply# 42   6/6/2015 at 17:50 (3,217 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
And finally..........

it's all done!
Presenting my KitchenAid KDS-19C in all it's glory :)
All cleaned up, fully installed and completely operational.
Ok, the Stainless Steel panels need a little more elbow grease, but I'll get to it, but in the meantime.....
OMG-I finally have a KitchenAid!!!!!
And I love it!

Also, it looks so,,,,,INDUSTRIAL


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Post# 827031 , Reply# 43   6/8/2015 at 07:51 (3,216 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
Oh my, what's this now?

So, I think I may have discovered the problem causing the small leak in the front of the machine near the left side.
As I had mentioned in and earlier post, there is a slight leak in the front of the machine due to the gasket seal UNDER the door having a gap and continuously sliding off track.
I wonder if finding this broken little O-ring might have something to do with it?
I have tried to get the seal back in place, and although it is temporarily "holding" itself in place, the problem has not been resolved in it's entirety. As I said earlier, it's like trying to get a Ziploc bag to seal when the two pieces are "off" and can't align themselves. That's the best description I can come up with for the problem.
I'm considering taking the front panel off to see if I can access the gasket better that way, because as it is, it is very difficult to deal with trying to fix it from underneath the door inside the wash chamber.
Any suggestions? Advice? Know what that part is for? And how important is it?
Please let me know, anyone who can so I can get this resolved before the leak causes any damage to the machine and it's longevity.
Thanks!
I sure do like this machine a LOT! Although, it DOES have it's flaws in the washing performance, and they are very obvious flaws at that.
But as I learn it's weaknesses, I learn what not to do with it and what not to let get into the machine.


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Post# 827043 , Reply# 44   6/8/2015 at 10:22 (3,216 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture

It could be the O-Ring that seals the detergent dispenser door shaft. 


Post# 827056 , Reply# 45   6/8/2015 at 12:26 (3,216 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Look elsewhere, first

That item you pictured is too big to be the seal on the detergent door shafts.

Take off the stainless trim strips on each side of the door. Retighten the screws that secure the hinges to the tank. Then pull the machine out a bit so you can see where the door goes into the tank. If the door doesn't close tightly enough, water may be spraying past the gasket and running down the door. Those corner gaskets you refer to are not the major preventer of leaks that many think they are. Water could be leaking at the top of the door and running down to the floor or anywhere along the door's perimeter. Some detective work is needed.

If the door latch needs to be adjusted to make the door close more tightly, it is done by shimming the latch by placing small, thin washers between the latch and the tank by removing the screws one at a time and adding shims. Most of the time you can get away with 1 or 2 on just the top screws and solve the problem, but I always liked to keep the latch mechanism "squared" up in the machine and added a shim to each corner as needed. You will be amazed at the difference that can make.
Also, make sure that the gasket is making good and smooth contact all along its length with the tank. Water under pressure can work its way through any opening between the two.

Do all of this with the door panel off the machine so you can also see if there are any leaks coming from the door itself.

Try this and see what you find.


Post# 827057 , Reply# 46   6/8/2015 at 12:29 (3,216 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
So it's got you Flawed?

Just wondering what specific flaws you have found? I would agree that every machine has its "quirks" but not all of them could or should be considered flaws.
What seems to be giving you trouble?


Post# 827090 , Reply# 47   6/8/2015 at 19:23 (3,215 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
Hi stevet!

The leak is definitely due to the lower gasket being slightly "off" as I have mentioned.
That is where the leak is and because of it is how I discovered that the gasket was off.
I've had the front panel off and everything is fine behind there as well.
I just have to get that gasket back in place fully and all will be fine.
As for the performance, it does have a slight yibble deposit issue (thanks Nate for that expression!).
As barcoboy pointed out, the lack of the constant rinse at the top of the wash tub is a major design flaw.
I also find the filter isn't the most effective as it has allowed food bits to pass through and not only redeposit on top of the dishes in the upper rack, but it also gets into the spray arm holes in the upper wash arm. MINOR amounts that is, but it has happened a few times now.
I'm getting better at understanding what shouldn't be allowed to pass through it, but I would never have these problems with the Maytag or with my Bosch's.
The Maytag Micro-Mesh Filter is awesome at filtering out anything and everything. And my Bosch's are great at that too I must say.
But as I said, I'm learning and getting better at knowing it's weaknesses and how to work with it and therefore make it work for me :)


Post# 828424 , Reply# 48   6/17/2015 at 20:21 (3,206 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
New Question....

So, I've figured out this machines weakness as I'm getting to know it these few weeks now.
The biggest issue is, as barcoboy pointed out, the lack of the "Constant-Rinse". Because of this, I would like to ask that if anyone has parts or is parting with an 18, I'd like to acquire the "upper" spray connection for the "Constant-Rinse".
That would make this one AWESOME performing machine.
I'm loving it so far and wow, to actually HEAR a dishwasher again.......it's 'music to my ears'!


Post# 828426 , Reply# 49   6/17/2015 at 20:27 (3,206 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
Oh, btw.....

Should I make a video?
I could set up the camera to film it in action.
But no open door fun. Just the lights and the control panel and well......not much as it progresses through the cycle.
Let me know if that would be of interest to anyone and I'll try it out. Otherwise, no need to.
Thanks!


Post# 830212 , Reply# 50   6/30/2015 at 20:32 (3,193 days old) by TwinTubber (Toronto)        
So why don't I LOVE it?

This machine is awesome, fun, pleasurable to load, etc......
But clean the damn dishes!
The problem is what I remember of KA's of this era-deposits left on dishes.
It has nothing to do with the machine itself not working fully, nor improper water temp, pressure, detergent, whatever.
It's what I remember of dishwashers of the 80's-an inability to deal with 'yibbles' in the upper rack and deposits on dishes in general.
And the machines' worst enemy is coffee grounds.
I can tell you, the Maytag will NOT give me these kinds of problems.
Enjoying the KitchenAid, but getting more excited about the Maytag getting fixed up and running as the KitchenAid disappoints me highly.



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