Thread Number: 60160  /  Tag: Modern Dryers
Dryer Fire Tonight!!!!!
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Post# 828318   6/17/2015 at 00:22 (3,207 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        

As some of you may know, I work as Kitchen Manager at a Christian Summer Camp. Last August, I helped facilitate a donation of a new Washer and Dryer. I had no part in the decision of what was purchased, just in setting the funds in place to make it happen. So, the first week of last September, a new Whirlpool Cabrio Platinum set (one step down from TOL) was delivered. Very nice machines, huge capacity, excellent cleaning. The dryer that was purchased was electric, although there is a connection for either. The laundry is located in the basement of our "Family Cabin" which is a 2 bedroom, 2 bath house meant to be rented out weekly to families. The camp Director's daughter is currently staying there with her 2 kids, ages 5 and around 7 months. Several other staff including myself stay in a separate bunkhouse, but there is only 1 laundry facility. Never had an issue, some take their laundry home etc, so only a few of us actually use the machines. well, tonight I finished up in the kitchen around 8:30, then went over to wash dish cloths, aprons, etc. I started the washer with a decent size load of dishcloths, aprons, and about 6 lined silicone oven mitts. Around 9:45 I went, put the load in the dryer (turned the silicone oven mitts inside out so the lining would dry), and set it to Sanitize. The display read 61 minutes remaining, and I left. As I was getting ready for bed, I got a text from the Director's wife, saying that there had been a fire in the cabin, the dryer caught fire (apparently, when the fire was discovered around 11:00, the display read 58 minutes remaining). I honestly don't know what to think. Everything that I had in that load has been washed and dried many times, in that dryer, on sanitize. I have not seen the damage, but I was sent a picture of the load of laundry on the sidewalk in flames. I don't think I did anything to cause the fire, but I will never know. All I know is the house nearly burned down with an adult and two kids inside. I do know they were able to get the fire out, and the fire department wasn't called, but other than that I don't know the extent of the damage, other than a cooked dryer and a house full of smoke. Right now I'm sitting here wide awake worrying about what could have happened and thanking God it didn't. I will probably know more tomorrow, and also whether or not I still have a job (I honestly didn't do anything to cause it as far as I know!) I was told the fire appeared to have started in the drum, when she opened the door, the load was on fire. I know calls will be made to Whirlpool and the store where the set was purchased tomorrow, but we will probably be out of service with the laundry room for a good while, depending on whether odor elimination needs to be done or not. I will likely be going to the Laundromat later this week, but ironically, I did my personal laundry this afternoon, and all seemed fine. I'm assuming something failed electronically to cause it to overheat.




Post# 828322 , Reply# 1   6/17/2015 at 00:32 (3,207 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)        

That's horrible! I'm glad everyone is ok. a couple of questions do come to mind, though. I want to be very clear that I'm not suggesting it's your job to have answers. If anything, these would be questions for you to ASK:

 

1. You left at 9:45 with 61 minutes on the dial, yet at 11:00 it read 58. How?

2. How did they take flaming laundry out of the dryer, out of the house, and dump it onto the sidewalk (still in flames) and why would they do that and risk setting something else on fire?

3. Why was the fire department not called?

 

Keep us posted. I hope all goes well tomorrow.

 

Jim


Post# 828325 , Reply# 2   6/17/2015 at 00:46 (3,207 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        

1. Electronic controls/moisture sensors.
2. Not a clue, I wasn't there, I just got a picture of flaming laundry on the sidewalk (which is just outside of the laundry area, the dryer is about 10 feet from the stairs, 5 stairs up and directly out the back door)
3. Because the fire was put out with a hose, and honestly, if they had been called to put it out, they may have saved the basement- and the rest of the house would be ashes. we are a few miles out of town here.


Post# 828374 , Reply# 3   6/17/2015 at 11:41 (3,207 days old) by dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        

Update: I talked with the director and her daughter this morning, and they have been on the phone with the store where the dryer was bought and Whirlpool all morning. As of now, Whirlpool is blaming us (surprise!) Because apparently we use chemicals that will react with the bleach used to wash the rags, and even after they are dry, there is a risk of fire. Am I believing any of that? No. We use mainly standard dishwashing liquid and liquid bleach cleaners, aside from what's used in the dishwasher, but that should never come into contact with our dish cloths. None of the cleaning products we use are flammable. Oil and grease on the towels? Maybe, but as I asked, why didn't this happen before? Apparently the dryer was off when the fire started, so I'm guessing the electronic controls failed and the heating element stayed on. Whirlpool is sending a repair person out monday, and we can't touch the dryer until they've done their investigation, and we had to keep all the burned rags as evidence. I'm guessing the dryer is totaled, apparently all the plastic around the lint filter and door was melted, and the paint on the top and sides of the dryer was yellowed. So, we'll see what happens, but I'm not holding my breath for miracles.

Post# 828376 , Reply# 4   6/17/2015 at 12:07 (3,207 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Wow!

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Terrible! I wonder could a contributing factor be lint build up in the dryer vent run or the dryer itself? Not the actual lint screen, but believe it or not, lint gets EVERYWHERE in the dryer (at least a lot of dryers, maybe not all).

We had a discussion about this on another thread. I have a Whirlpool Duet dryer, and when I take the bottom panel off every few years underneath is FULL of lint that I have to spend an hour vacuuming and cleaning. Lint itself a major fire hazard, and I thought most dryer fires were caused from lint build up within the dryer or the vent run, causing the dryer to overheat...Chemical reactions never occurred to me...


Post# 828377 , Reply# 5   6/17/2015 at 12:35 (3,207 days old) by dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        

Lint buildup could have contributed to it, but the dryer is less than a year old, and the vent was cleaned when it was installed. The vent run is very short, out the back of the dryer, then straight up about 4 feet and exits at a 90 degree angle. I'm just thinking if it was a chemical reaction, why did this not happen before? We have used the same detergent and bleach combination since last summer, even before the new washer and dryer- Purex Natural Elements detergent and a semi heavy dose of dollar store bleach. Heavy Duty cycle, hot water, extra rinse. And why did the fire start after the dryer had stopped? Would it have not been more likely while the dryer was running on a high temperature sanitize cycle? I'm thinking Whirlpool is just trying to cover their own behind, whether or not it was a mechanical failure.

Post# 828378 , Reply# 6   6/17/2015 at 12:39 (3,207 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Well...

I guess, though you did nothing apparently wrong, you might get into some trouble.

First of: You can do something 1000 times, and the 1001 time, you fail catastrophicly. Always keep that in mind.

Now: You said you put in silicon items? If Whirlpool gets to know that, they will never ever pay a penny and may even let you come up for the costs of inspecting the dryer. The WP dryer manuals I read clearly state not to dry silicon items. You just can't get arround that. And especially, drying these on Sanitize is a thing I would NEVER risk, even if they are ment to survive that heat.
There are ways bleach residues can higher the fire hazzard. Basicly, bleach reacts with the opticly active hydrocarbon chains and oxidizes them. This is a exothermal reaction, means, it releases energy.
Now you heat up that damp laundry. Especially the mitts being outside out during wash, with silicon out and fiberes inside, might not have been rinsed well. Now, the rest of the load seemed rather light. The badly rinsed linig of the mitts faces outwards.

Under these circumstances, it might verry well be possible that, after the dryer finished, the mitts were still damp and hot, as the rest was dryed faster and sensed dry. The bleach (now activated by heat) caused some verry small amout of heat to develop.
And just like with spontaneus combustion in clusters of hay or simmilar, a spontaneus reaction chain started, causing more heat and finally, the fire.

Or one of the mitts got caught at the air duct into the drum, where, naturally, temperatures are the highest.

The reason I say that is that a turned of dryer with a heater running is less likely to start a fire. The heater is made of verry thin wires. And laundry and heater are only thermally coupled via air. The dryer was off, so there was no air stream, so close to no heat transfer away from the heater to the laundry.
If the heater turns on without air blown over, it overheates rather quickly (almost like a insulated 5000 watt heating blanket).
Now, if the mechanic thermal safety switches failed (they make it physicly impossible for the heater to run if they activate) - which is unlikely - the heater would probably just clean burn through.
As long as nothing flameable like lint got caught on it, there is basicly no ignition risk.

I get that was a pretty dangerus and bad situation. And I don't want to accuse you of anything.
But it might actually have been you fault this time, maybe not completly, possibly not at all. But it certanly could have been.

I hope this turns out OK for everybody.

Hoping the best
Henrik


Post# 828379 , Reply# 7   6/17/2015 at 13:11 (3,207 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

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I remember at least 25-years-ago when I was working at Arbor Drugs and there was a fire at a coin laundromat right near by it that we faced the back of...

 

Those who could rescue their laundry had everything in a bunch of damp-to-wet, still half-dirty/half-clean, half-wet/half-dry, etc. on the ground...

 

While the fire dept. put out what was most-likely caused by one or more of the driers igniting in more than just the chamber where the heat gets produced...

 

There was a sign on that back door of the laundry which was one of the entrances, as well as most-likely on the front of the building stating that 'Due To A Fire, that the Laundromat would be Closed'...

 

(It closed for Halloween, as well...!)

 

 

 

-- Dave


Post# 828380 , Reply# 8   6/17/2015 at 13:20 (3,207 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        

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Since you mentioned that you had washed Kitchen towels and mitts, I am wondering if the cooking oil was what started the combustion process?

Every dryer manual I have read warns against drying that may have contained cooking oil as the temps of the dryer could lead to a fire.

Just wondering if this is what happened. In that case I would almost say Whirlpool's assessment is accurate and they are not at fault. Time to call the insurance company.



Post# 828382 , Reply# 9   6/17/2015 at 13:44 (3,207 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
God that makes me nervous

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because I have totally done that in the past! Washed items that may have contained oil (who hasn't???) and then dried them! And there is that big fat warning on the dryer that says "not washer can remove oil completely, please do not dry items that had oil on them", but I did it anyway!

Post# 828385 , Reply# 10   6/17/2015 at 14:13 (3,207 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
We have all done it.

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And if like me done it on at least a weekly basis.



Post# 828386 , Reply# 11   6/17/2015 at 14:27 (3,207 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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well, there are definitely going to be questions asked.....and their going to want answers sorry to say.....

by both Whirlpool/Investigators and the Insurance Company.....

THAT's the whole reason behind signs like this placed on machines, someone way before this incident has already done it, may be sued Whirlpool, and this is how they now get around it.......how do you think 'lid locks' all started, someone stuck their hand into a moving machine.....

as mentioned, any hint of just something like simple vegetable oil, would be triggered as user error......these instructions are clearly printed on both the washer and dryer, and in the instruction booklet...

yes, we have all done it, without actually thinking, same goes for washing regular work clothes from someone like a mechanic.....I do test loads all the time from a load like this......but there is always the potential for a fire to happen.....no one can predict which load is going to be the final straw......

some things don't add up, small enough of a blaze to be contained, yet massive damage.....and a dryer that caught fire, hot enough to melt plastic, but not the wiring, and yet the display still works....that's one rugged control board!

relax and breathe, for the most part, everything will be alright.....any damage to the property will be repaired, a replacement dryer will be installed, and you'll be back on track in a few weeks......were all thankful no one was injured....

for anyone out there, this may be a good time to check your own vents, in and outside of the dryer cleaned of any lint, and check batteries of your smoke detectors, or install new ones.....

you only have to have this happen once for a lesson to be learned, at least, don't leave the house with any appliance like a washer or dryer running, you can't be too safe.....we too have done this a millions times, but it only takes once....safety first.....



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Post# 828387 , Reply# 12   6/17/2015 at 14:53 (3,207 days old) by washerdude (Canada )        
This reminds me of something...

Our 7 month duet washer randomly unlocks during the cycle. Its usually after (most of the time) spin cycles and rarly after a wash/rinse cycle. But once it really gave me a fright. It unlocked WHILE IT WAS FILLING. Right when i went to get my phone to take the picture, I think the pressure sensor realized it had reached the water it needed, but the door was unlocked so the cycle did not continue. This i think, is NOT the lid lock but i think this is well enough the pesky crap boards used in the machines. Though it hasen't done it for 2 months now, im still on edge about it. This actually brings me to a story my neighbor told me.

She had a fairly old kenmore dryer. She said that the family smelled a minor burning smell all day but didn't think much of it. They remembered they had to get a new drain hose for the washer because it was leaking. So they bought one and called someone over to repair it. While the repairman was working on the washer, his hand slipped and it went right on to the back panel of the dryer and he yelled. He then went to the home owners and asked "did you use your dryer today?" Strange enough, the dryer had not been in use for 2 days. This later got down to being the heating element on even though the dryer was off.

I think either 2 things could have happend. 1. The control board, I say this because I've personally had an experiance that is most likly something to do with the computer board. And 2, oil on the rags. I really do hope everything turns out fine for you and everyone else. Good luck!



Post# 828413 , Reply# 13   6/17/2015 at 18:44 (3,207 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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Just a few weeks ago I had the very strong urge to replace the venting for my dryer.  When I moved into this house, it did not have a laundry room....the washer was sitting beside the kitchen stove and the gas dryer was in the shed out back.  My ex and I built a laundry closet and put everything in there...gas water heater, washer beside the WH (so I have TRUE hot water plus a booster in the washer) and a GE gas dryer.  At the time, in a crunch we just ran foil dryer hose about  15 feet under the house to the outside wall.  Well lately I've noticed it's taking much longer to dry stuff so it clicked in my brain (out of sight, out of mind) that I need to put in rigid piping...so I did.  Still have a small section to finish off but the 15 feet of brand new well-insulated duct made a huge difference.  It will be so much easier to clean with one of those brushes attached to a drill from outside. I'm anal retentive about lint in my dryer itself because my mother's old WP almost caught fire when I was a kid and a neighbor's house did when she put clothes in the dryer and left for work.  It smoldered all day and caused a lot of smoke damage.  Since then, I do NOT like to leave or go to bed with clothes in the dryer.  We had a GE FF washer that the water valve got stuck too and we were outside....for just a short while and came in to find a creek coming down the hall where the washer was overflowing. 

 

After a little rambling my final thoughts about the above post...my first instinct would be to think something with the electronic controls.  There have been instances of dishwashers catching fire because of the boards, I've seen personally a washer that melted the front panel due to a faulty board.  I REALLY DO NOT like electronics in washers and dryers.  Some things are better left untouched.  Let us know what they say.


Post# 828419 , Reply# 14   6/17/2015 at 19:23 (3,207 days old) by Gusherb (Chicago/NWI)        

I put a solid metal vent on our dryer 7 years ago after two years of it taking far too long on the old cobbled together mess that was half vinyl duct and half corrugated aluminum (the aluminum was the half that connected to the dryer)
The run is exactly 14 feet long so changing it to the metal helped dramatically. I clean the flaps of the vent cover periodically because they get stuck open and allow cold air into the dryer but I have never cleaned that duct, and it's gotten pretty linty. I also vacuum the build up from under where the lint filter goes.

One of these days I wanna redo that metal ducting and remove several elbows from it, clean it out, and take the dryer apart and clean it out. The only problem is its a Samsungtag dryer without a removable front panel so I think the whole thing has to come apart. I'd honestly rather just replace it with a matching SQ gas dryer then do that! (Those get a lot of build up but are easy to clean)


Post# 828428 , Reply# 15   6/17/2015 at 20:33 (3,207 days old) by dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        

I feel so bad about it, especially if something I did caused it, but I want to believe there was a failure in the dryer. I can't count the number of times we have done the same loads, the same exact way. Daily, all summer. I finish cleaning up the kitchen, walk the dirty laundry over, wash it, then put it in the dryer before going to bed. Repeat the next day. If it truly was caused by some reaction, I guess we have been lucky up until now. I have offered to donate a dryer if Whirlpool can't repair it and won't replace it.

Post# 828433 , Reply# 16   6/17/2015 at 20:55 (3,207 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)        

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I just bought a new flex aluminum duct to connect and replace to the old Maytag and get rid of the old vinyl pipe. I have a window right beside the dryer and just stick the vent out the window with panels in the winter that I made to seal and I just close the window on it and pull it out and put it away when the dryer is finished and lock the window. Several years ago, more like 30 ish, I had the same dryer connected to an outside vent where I lived before and forgot to hit the start button when the phone rang, remembered next morning and everything was froze solid, so alot of air leagage. My next door neighbor is a fire chief and he told me lint buildup is the main cause of dryer fires next to electrical issues and says you should only use your washer and dryer when you are there and just dont set it and take off somewhere and hope it works well. You could burn down or get flooded.

Post# 828437 , Reply# 17   6/17/2015 at 21:27 (3,207 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

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Most of my dryers have notes about not drying clothes that have been in solvents but I have never seen anything about oil. I wash and dry a lot of things that have been in oil or solvent (I just washed a T-shirt that I cleaned with Gun Wash thinner as I had spilled some paint on it). I rinsed it quite well and let it dry before I washed it in the machine and it didn't smell at all, I felt it was safe to dry it in my 1965 Filtrator after but I'll be more cautious! 


Post# 828447 , Reply# 18   6/17/2015 at 23:23 (3,207 days old) by supersurgilator (Indiana)        

DO u have any pics of the towels or of the machine? i'd be curious to see the damage it actually caused.

Post# 828468 , Reply# 19   6/18/2015 at 07:50 (3,206 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Dryer Fire

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This fire was most likely spontaneous combustion from the heat and left over oils etc left in the clothing. It likely started AFTER the dryer shut off, there are many cases of this happening even when the dry laundry has been removed and is just sitting in a basket or pile [ which is really scary because you have no metal dryer to contain the fire at all.

 

Spontaneous Combustion does not happen often but it can. Everyone here including myself have washed and dried loads that we probably should not have. If you are ever tempted to dry questionable loads of old cleaning rags etc I would suggest drying them on a cooler temperature, and also don't try to dry them bone dry, leave them a little damp. A gas dryer is probably a little safer as well as you can't get things quite as dry because of the moisture put off by burning gas.

 

It would be interesting if WP could put in a fire detection feature that would turn on the mister of dryers that have the steam system with a cold water connection, as this could easily put out a fire like this.

 

It will be interesting to see if WP replaces this dryer, they might do it as a good-will gesture, but it is not likely a dryer fault, the good news is the insurance company will have to take care of all the damage which will likely include replacing the dryer.


Post# 828473 , Reply# 20   6/18/2015 at 08:54 (3,206 days old) by dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        

I would love to post pictures, but no one is allowed in the house until they come out to investigate the dryer on monday. We can't touch the dryer until after they have looked at it. We did have to save all the rags that were inside when the fire started, even the ones that could be salvaged. There were a few that were burnee beyond all recognition, some that were burned but still intact, and some were fine, but obviously smell like smoke. I was allowed in for just a minute to save my laundry products yesterday, and all I saw was the plastic panel around the door was browned along with the sides and top of the cabinet. The basement still reeks, and they have all the doors and windows open with fans going to help air the smell out. No fire damage outside of the dryer, but there will most likely be smoke damage.

Post# 828485 , Reply# 21   6/18/2015 at 12:15 (3,206 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

I guess a good lesson is to never leave a dryer running and go away or to bed. I am quite surprised with all of the cold water washing and other poor laundering practices going on that there have not been more dryer fires.

As far as the spontaneous combustion, I remember reading an article in Reader's Digest in the late 50s or early 60s about the foam padding in bras causing fires. It was generally not while the bra was in the dryer, but after the bundle of laundry had been wrapped in brown paper and put on the shelf waiting for the customer to come pick it up. The bundle of clothing held in the heat, not letting the rubber cool and the rubber stayed hot and chemically generated enough heat to cause it to start burning.

Do any of y'all remember the discussion we had some time back about the standards for dryers to contain fires?


Post# 828488 , Reply# 22   6/18/2015 at 13:00 (3,206 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
I never go to bed or leave the house

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with clothes drying. Speaking of keeping your vent run clean, mine vents through the roof and I HATE that. The first few years, I was constantly cleaning it. On another forum a long time ago I was posting about how I hated it and some lady posted a similar situation and resolution she and her husband had, which was to put a paint strainer in the short vent that connects the dryer to the wall, sort of like lining it like you would a trash bag in a trash can before you connect the vent from wall to dryer. I did this about 2 or 3 years ago and all lint that escapes the first filter gets caught in the paint strainer keeping the entire vent run clean for over 2 years now. I have easy access behind my dryer so I clean it every 2 weeks religiously. Clothes dry fast too. It's a PAIN but not nearly the pain of cleaning an entire vent run. This wouldn't work for most people but it seems to work great for me. But I'm always right here when clothes are drying and I'm the only one that touches the machines.

Post# 828490 , Reply# 23   6/18/2015 at 14:05 (3,206 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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I put a fire alarm in the laundry room as I do sometimes go to bed while the dryer is running. The faucets and hoses for the washer are over the dryer, so I always hope that the flames would melt the hoses and water would spew forth and help contain the fire.

Post# 828496 , Reply# 24   6/18/2015 at 14:48 (3,206 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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Sorry to hear about this incident. I hope it all works out somehow.

Post# 828497 , Reply# 25   6/18/2015 at 14:52 (3,206 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        
never leave a dryer running

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Good advice, and I think I've seen this suggested in years gone by in Dear Abby. It's something I try to be careful of, although I have to admit there have been times I've fallen asleep while waiting for a dryer to finish. Having read the above, I'll be trying to avoid naps like this in the future!

Then, I suppose in our rush-rush-rush world, there is a temptation to fling clothes into a dryer, hit start, and dash off to do the week's grocery shopping, watch the kid's sports team, whatever. Usually, one is OK...but if there is that one time in a million event, it can be a real mess. As this thread shows.


Post# 828499 , Reply# 26   6/18/2015 at 14:55 (3,206 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        
never leave a dryer running

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My post above lost some words in the "Subject drift" due to too much haste... I was referring to the idea of leaving a dryer running when going away.

Post# 828504 , Reply# 27   6/18/2015 at 15:36 (3,206 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

I really started to wrap my head arround it now.

Why does this happen in the US so frequently, however, barley over here?

I know of 1 dryer ever catching fire here in the town, and that was 2007 or 2008, just arround the corner up the road. And that dryer was later discovered to be short circuted by dripping wet clothes in it. Several fire trucks had to come and the whole basement burned out, but wasn't even that badly damaged for being completly on fire. (I think I read about 40k€ the insurence paid, which is - given that the brand new heating system, as well as laundry applainces, food storage and other goods of 4 partys in that home were destroyed, on top of the general renovation needed - not even that much!)

So, what is it that makes the US more likely to have a dryer burning? The majority of vented dryers? The bigger heating elements? Or just bare the basic size if the dryers?

Any ideas?


Post# 828512 , Reply# 28   6/18/2015 at 17:20 (3,206 days old) by gusherb (Chicago/NWI)        
Seems it's electric dryers

That catch on fire more frequently.

The only dryer fire I've heard about around here in the last 10 years is the local Humane Society, which uses two Speed Queen 30 pound gas tumblers (and two 20 pound washer/extractors). The reason it caught fire was because it was stuffed full, and the lint filter had been neglected (knowing the inner workings of how that place is run they probably ignored it for weeks).

They actually had a second fire in the laundry room about 3 years ago, said it wasn't the dryer again but started in a pile of laundry this time...

They're lucky that place is all solid brick including the interior walls or it would've burned to the ground twice already...

But back onto what I was originally getting at, I've heard of more electric dryer fires then gas. I almost never hear about dryer fires around here and one thing I do know is that gas is the choice here instead of electric.


Post# 828516 , Reply# 29   6/18/2015 at 17:38 (3,206 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Three dryer fires come to immediate mind in my circle of acquaintances.  The most recent was gas.  One many years ago was electric.  3rd I don't know.


Post# 828522 , Reply# 30   6/18/2015 at 19:21 (3,206 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Dryer Fires

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Remember that this type of fire can happen long after the dryer stops or even when the clean laundry is sitting in a basket, so it may make little difference whether you run the dryer while you are asleep or gone, BUT if you are going to wash and dry questionable loads you probably should stick around and remove and fold items immediately when they finish drying.

 

Why do we have more dryer fires in the US compared to Europe?

 

Who knows for sure but it probably has something to do with the fact that Americans actually have dryers and dry almost everything in their dryers that we wash. Dryer ownership and usage of dryers in Europe is a small fraction of what we have in the US.

 

John L.


Post# 828542 , Reply# 31   6/18/2015 at 22:03 (3,206 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

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I'm wondering if static electricity can ignite a fire if there's a presence of a solvent in the machine?

 

Also, I'd think clothes impregnated with solvents or oil would be more likely to start a fire in a condenser dryer, since it recirculates the air and dries at higher temperatures (I'm not talking about the heat pump type!) than a vented dryer.

 

But then, isn't that kind of dryer much more popular in Europe than it is here?  


Post# 828561 , Reply# 32   6/19/2015 at 00:32 (3,205 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        

Well, another update... Apparently all we had to save for evidence were the burned items. This afternoon, another employee brought a basket of rags into the kitchen, and I asked where they came from. She said that they were the ones salvaged from the dryer, and the director had her wash and dry them at their house. (they have TOL LG front loaders). I replied with "Oh.. Okay.." and sorted them into their proper baskets. There were a couple of the oven mitts that had survived, but they smell horrid, probably will need to be thrown out, and I would imagine the towels and dish cloths will also... I thought they were ok until they got wet, then they smelled like smoke. I was a bit less than thrilled. Also, according to the same person that brought them in, we aren't allowed to use any bleach in the washer, and if the dryer is repaired or replaced, everything is to be dried at the lowest heat setting. That should work out well.... Guess I will be taking the kitchen linens to the Laundromat or home on weekends to be washed. Maybe our dryer will catch fire... or most likely not! It just baffles me that people follow far worse laundry practices, cold water, no bleach, short cycles etc, and most likely wash and dry far worse things, but almost never hear of a fire, and even then, it is most likely caused by lint rather than chemicals in the laundry. I honestly hope that when the service person comes out Monday, they find some catastrophic failure in the dryer, whether it be the control board, thermostats, broken belt, SOMETHING that will prove the fault wasn't mine. I have not been confronted as guilty, but feel I'm being blamed, even without words. Yes, I started the dryer, and yes it was at the highest heat setting, but no dryer should set clothes on fire without some failure. The latest addition to the story was that at 11pm when the daughter got home, the dryer was still running with 58 minutes to go... she was getting ready for bed around 11:30 and the dryer was off, but she had smelled smoke for 15 minutes- she thought it was a campfire outside, and went to shut the back door only to discover the basement full of smoke. She told me there was a lot of smoke coming from the back of the dryer, and when she opened the door, a cloud of smoke came out and flames started. She said the dryer was very hot, and she threw a bucket of water inside, ran upstairs and got the kids out to the car. She came back and threw the still smoldering rags outside, and they caught fire again on the sidewalk. I'm starting to wonder if the story is true, or if it may have been intentionally set. She had climbed all over me that afternoon while I was doing my laundry for using too much bleach and stinking her house up, using too long of cycles on the washer and dryer, and washing too small of loads. I tried to explain that the load sizes didn't matter, the washer automatically set the water levels, and the rags needed to be sanitized, but she got an attitude and stomped upstairs. Just to clarify, she holds no position to give me or anyone else orders, I am the kitchen manager and she is a lifeguard. She doesn't pay any bills, so the water and electricity use is not her business either.. The director, yes, but I hadn't heard any complaints from him or his wife. I just respectfully and politely told the daughter I would take care of the kitchen laundry, and she could continue to do hers. Do I think there is a possibility the fire was intentionally set? Yes. We will see the outcome after the investigation has been done though.

Post# 828615 , Reply# 33   6/19/2015 at 10:54 (3,205 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
Starting to sound Conspiratous

iheartmaytag's profile picture
I would stick to hand washing and line drying to be safe. If they burst into flames while on the line I would suspect that a young Drew Barrymore is hanging around your parts.


Post# 828624 , Reply# 34   6/19/2015 at 13:12 (3,205 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
@ combo52

mark_wpduet's profile picture
It sounds like you're saying these things can catch fire long after they are finished drying, but they won't catch fire as long as you fold them quickly?

Post# 828682 , Reply# 35   6/19/2015 at 21:15 (3,205 days old) by harpon (Jacksonville)        

harpon's profile picture
I had an older style 220 volt receptacle catch fire a couple of years ago out in the detached shed I have set in.. I had fair warning, it had been crackling when I first turned the machine on just a bit, but as it hadn't worsened I hadn't paid it much mind. I think I did check it a little more frequently, and it was as I was checking it that I saw it had in fact sprung to flames and was melting down the plug and receptacle as the machine ran on. It was obviously some kind of grounding problem with the plug and outlet. The receptacle was attached to a bare wooden stud in the shed, so it may have caught that on fire and the whole shed-

When I replaced the cord and receptacle with a newer four pronger, I also made sure I got a heavy coat of latex paint on the wall stud. Aluminum foil would help too I guess, but not a peep of a problem with it since..

So anyway ,I never leave the dryer unattended for long now, and I'll never let the one in my house bathroom running if I leave even though it's only a 110 volt converted Space Saver- I'm sure the lower voltage is less capable of starting a fire as fast, but it's just not worth the risk.


Post# 828715 , Reply# 36   6/20/2015 at 01:22 (3,204 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Perhaps...

mrb627's profile picture
They can replace the dryer with one of the Whirlpool Heat pump dryers.

Malcolm


Post# 828727 , Reply# 37   6/20/2015 at 07:19 (3,204 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Electric Dryer Outlet Fires

combo52's profile picture

The reason electrical outlets sometimes fail and heat up or burn on electric dryers and other constant high draw appliances is poor connections between the prongs of the cord and the mating female contacts in the outlet or loose or poor connections where the house wiring attaches to the outlet.

 

This type of failure can result in a home fire if there is enough flammable material very close to the outlet or outlet box, but usually it just burns itself out and the appliance stops running, Note; this type of poor connection fault will almost NEVER trip a circuit breaker since while the outlet is burning the electrical draw is actually less than when the dryer is operating properly.

 

This type of event is not a grounding issue, it would probably not help much to paint the wood next to the outlet box or add aluminum foil near the box. The best way to make this type of electrical connection safe is to use a large enough STEEL box and make connections carefully and be sure they are tight. The other thing that can be done for a 240 volt electric dryer is to use the heavier 50 Amp outlet and cords that electric ranges use while still using a 30 Amp Circuit breaker in the main panel. A 120 volt electric dryer is probably even more dangerous and likely to have this type of over heating event at its outlet for several reasons.

 

1, a 120 volt dryer has to run much longer while drawing a near maximum load on the plug and outlet.

 

2, 120 volt outlets are often even more poorly constructed and assembled, often cheap 15 amp outlets are used instead of heaver duty 20 amp type. Every year there are thousands of home fires due to overheated outlets and cords from using portable electric heaters, luckily 120 dryers are not that common in the US, but we still regularly see overheated outlets on 120 volt dryers. Just last week I ran a service call on a 120 volt WP 24" Thin Twin that stopped running due to a burned up outlet.


Post# 828752 , Reply# 38   6/20/2015 at 09:04 (3,204 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
well that sort of makes sense at what JohnL says.....when you take clothes out of the dryer, sometimes theres a static charge still there.....once you pull them out to fold, all that static is gone....

stuff you don't give much thought to, until something like this arrives, and then there are possibilities of stuff like this happening....

same could be said for fueling your vehicle, not just stop smoking, but any sort of spark can start an explosion......how many times have you grabbed the handle of your vehicle, and got a shock?

certain floor materials when you walk across them, and then to grab the sink or fridge, not realizing you built up a charge on yourself....

like rubbing a latex balloon against your hair......wait, this brings up a fast question of latex and static build up from ones body.....but I can't ask that here...


Post# 828809 , Reply# 39   6/20/2015 at 16:44 (3,204 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)        

I think you're right to be suspicious. I hate to sound like a broken record, but I have a real problem with the laundry being removed and brought outside.

 

So, first they were smoldering, then they burst into flame, then they were doused with water. This means that the were soaking wet and cool enough to be taken out of the dryer (BUT STILL SMOLDERING!!!) and brought outside... where they burst into flame again???

 

AND, this occurred hours after she was completely out of line in trying to tell you how to do your job. Unless she has cognitive issues, she knew she had no business critiquing your laundry routine. Therefore that behaviour was out-and-out attack.

 

What does bleach have to do with anything, anyway? No more bleach? Just who is trying to tell you how to do your job? Could you make a case that lack of bleach can/could lead to unsanitary kitchen conditions?

 

Again, I think you're right to be suspicious.

 

Separately, I have a problem with the idea that it's dangerous to use a dryer for anything that had cooking oil on it. Think about it. If that were actually true, there'd be many, many more dryer fires than there are. 

 

Jim 


Post# 828812 , Reply# 40   6/20/2015 at 16:54 (3,204 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Bleach, oil and fires

There is always that "possible, but unlikely" thought.

It is possible that you are stung by a bee right now as you reed this. Pretty unlikely, may never happen, but perfectly logicly possible.

Cooking oil should not combust at 180°F. But theoreticly, the oil highers the risk of the spontaneus combustion. And with a dryer combining a big source of heat and a lot of oxigen being brought in, risk of combustion is higher after all anyway.

Just because it dosen't happen often, it dose not not happen at all. And as long as it can happen, it can happen.


Post# 828820 , Reply# 41   6/20/2015 at 18:49 (3,204 days old) by iej (.... )        

That's scary!

Ours is Miele electric dryer with a straight run of metal ducting. Every few weeks I just use a damp mop to clean out the full duct and give the machine itself a bit of a vacuuming.

It's surprising just how much lint gets through the filters!


Post# 828826 , Reply# 42   6/20/2015 at 19:28 (3,204 days old) by mamapinky (blairsville pa)        

First off Dustin has been a member here for years, so would know more than the average person on the proper way to do laundry, which isn't to say he couldn't have made a bad decision.
But look at the evidence...they were smoldering, burst into flames, doused with water, brought outside and burst into flames again...yet they were wet/ cool enough to move outdoors without bursting into flames in route...why exactly were they moved anyway? Who moved the laundry? And why in the world would anyone care to move a load of towels at that point considering the danger involved. No it doesn't add up especially after just hours before the **daughter gave uou attatude....I bet she got pissed or embarrassed at what you said and........!!!
Hope it all works out Dustin but I wouldn't blame yourself you were doing your job to the best of your ability Good luck Cheryl


Post# 828862 , Reply# 43   6/21/2015 at 07:21 (3,203 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

arbilab's profile picture
Linseed oil is notorious for spontaneous combustion. But lo, so are food oils. While the dryer temp is well below ignition temp, it's enough to accelerate oxidation which is exothermic, the same process that ignites linseed.

Cotton wicking greatly enhances this. Just like it's rather difficult to ignite lamp oil or candle wax without a wick.

None of that makes it 'your fault'. Funny thing is, if you'd soaked those kitchen items in gasoline then laundered them in hot where the detergent got hold of the food oil, the gasoline would have dissolved the cooking oils and the hot water would have vaporized the gasoline volatiles. Theoretically. Not saying to do that.

Have to say, the temp/time/detergent concentration were insufficient to remove cooking oil below the threshold where this could happen. But that determination is scientific well beyond what you 'should have known'.

The chef 'should' have sopped the oil with paper towels sealed in airtight metal containers, just like furniture refurbishers 'should' do with linseed oil.


Post# 828865 , Reply# 44   6/21/2015 at 07:36 (3,203 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture

Thinking back, I don't know whether that laudromat fire could have been caused by any kind of oil in clothes or simply, by my theory that one vent line, or more, may have not properly, routinely cleaned...

 

There were piles of peoples' rescued laundry on the ground outside, and no sobbing people, taking on the quality of people or pets having to be rescued in the small blaze...

 

My dryer recently quit heating and while I thought that it was the igniter which quit working, the repair man repaced a small metal oval-shaped disc, which was a thermal fuse...

 

He also took gobs, and gobs of lint out of the lower area where all the dryer's workings are--filling a waste basket w/ enough lint and other dust, that I was aching for it to be garbage day, also telling us to let him know, if our laundry still doesn't get completely dry...

 

I have a tool kit w/ a vacuum cleaner attatchment, and a few brushed to at least go into my dryer's line trap, but really wonder about the quality of my duct work...

 

So I'm left to always be home when any long-term drying is being done...  I would like to someday dismantle our dryer's venting, if not put in some new piping altogether... (I find my self using the "Touch-Up" on the dial for a few loads; I like my clothes hot when I take 'em out!)...

 

 

-- Dave

 

 


Post# 828880 , Reply# 45   6/21/2015 at 10:13 (3,203 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Why Would Anyone Remove Smoldering Clothing From A Dryer

combo52's profile picture

If I found a bunch of smoldering smoking laundry you bet your a.. that I would douse it with water or a fire extinguisher and get it out of the house as fast as possible, and it may not be the safest or wisest thing to do but I would still try to get that stinking mess out of the house as fast as possible, next thing I would do[ if possible ] would be getting the dryer out of the house.

 

We had a customer on Capital Hill who had a full sized WP Gas TT where the dryer caught fire, when I went by the house to investigate a few hours after the fire I found the entire machine sitting in the front yard, The DC Fire Men disconnected the gas, water etc and carried the hot smoldering machine out of the house.


Post# 828907 , Reply# 46   6/21/2015 at 15:06 (3,203 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Years Ago When We First Moved To The Area

launderess's profile picture
Local Laundromat was run by a bunch of, well basically 'young adults" who seemed to care little to nil about the place beyond getting paid. Every other week it seemed the FDNY was there to put out dryer fires. Was told by another resident in my street that routine nightly maintenance (cleaning out the lint traps) was not being performed.

Laundry has long since closed, renovated and reopened under new workers (Chinese visa immigrants), who make sure the lint traps are cleaned nightly.


Post# 828910 , Reply# 47   6/21/2015 at 15:23 (3,203 days old) by mamapinky (blairsville pa)        

Back in the 60's &70's my aunt had a very large laundromat and she lived upstairs. I spent most weekends with aunt joyce as a child so I spent much time downstairs at the laundromat. I remember through out the day her pulling a large panel off the bottom part of the dryers and sweeping them out, I also remember every sunday she used a large vac and after sweeping them out she vac'ed them I don't know if she vacumed them during the week also. Some of my best childhood memories were in that laundromat. In the early 80's the laundromat burnt to the ground taking several apartments adjacent to the building, at that time the laundromat was no longer my aunts and there never seemed to be anyone there attending. I'm not sure if any info can be found on that laundromat fire in blairsville pa but I was told it started in a dryer. Cheryl

Post# 828916 , Reply# 48   6/21/2015 at 16:04 (3,203 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)        
Thank you, Mamapinky!

I'm glad someone else has a problem with that piece of the story. Also, if the girl is old enough to be a lifeguard, she's old enough to know that her behaviour was WAY out of line. As I understand it she presented herself as a supervisor of someone (Dustin) who is not only in a different department, but ABOVE her. There's just no non-hostile interpretation of this behaviour that I can see.

 

Jim


Post# 828919 , Reply# 49   6/21/2015 at 16:46 (3,203 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
some things don't add up......

while true, dryer fires can happen, whether through lint, or oil substance on clothing...and a chance of static charge.....anything is possible

the one thing THAT isn't making sense......all this 'hype' over the dryer fire, which seems more intense after the incident....more so than the actual time of events to call the fire dept....

normal people would be hysterical/upset at the moment of the actual fire.....not afterwards....

that would be my biggest question....Why wasn't the fire dept called?.....especially for a business.....

we had a local Laundromat that seemed to catch fire at least once every other month......and always in the middle of the night...and seemed like no sooner insurance paid and it was repaired, it would catch fire again....the last time it happened, the fire dept was in no hurry to put it out, normally you would watch them run in and put it out immediately.....this time, they checked for bodies inside, and it wasn't until it was engulfed in flames did they start to pull out the hoses......I think they got tired of the same incident, over and over..



Post# 828933 , Reply# 50   6/21/2015 at 18:38 (3,203 days old) by mamapinky (blairsville pa)        

Thanks Jim.....this whole story seems strange, and I can't get past someone carrying wet burnt laundry outside where it bursts into flames again, wet. Dustin how badly burned was the dryer? Was it the ** daughter who opened the dryer door and doused the flames? And than carried them outside to the sidewalk? Any witnesses to this? Someone took a chance these didn't burst back into flames carrying them outside. I know lots of questions that can't be answered...you probably have figured out what I'm thinking happened, even though it could have been a freak accident, there's also a chance it wasn't a accident.

Post# 828938 , Reply# 51   6/21/2015 at 19:34 (3,203 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        

I don't know if it was the daughter or the director that hauled the laundry outside, but the daughter told me she threw a bucket of water in the dryer when she discovered the fire. The director and his wife live in a separate house on the property (although a fair distance away). He came down when the daughter brought the kids up and said there was a fire. The amount of water she claims to have thrown on it (standard size wastebasket that sits under a drippy water valve, last I had seen it was about half full) SHOULD have doused the fire. The dryer isn't terribly burned, though I haven't seen the inside yet, the paint above the door and on the sides and top of the cabinet is yellowed. From what I've heard, the lint filter area in the front of the drum is melted. A good 3/4 of what was in the dryer was saved, although smells like smoke even after being rewashed. No one besides her and her kids were in the house when the fire started. She seems to be making a huge drama out of it, because the morning after the fire, I went in with her to grab my laundry stuff, and she was coughing and complaining how the smell burned her lungs... It smelled bad, yes, it smelled like burned garbage in the house, but the windows had been open all night, and fans on. Didn't bother my throat or lungs at all. I don't think she has stayed in the house since the fire.

Post# 828940 , Reply# 52   6/21/2015 at 19:45 (3,203 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        

Well, I'll add to my last post, the daughter's car is at the house now, so she may be staying there tonight...

Post# 829010 , Reply# 53   6/22/2015 at 11:28 (3,202 days old) by Kitty ()        
Scary.

As combo52 said about the outlet burning up in a 110 volt dryer, like my maytag portable! The person who had it before me replaced a section of the cord with 18 gauge (thin), and it gets very warm while running, and the joint gets quite hot, so I'm probably just going to replace the whole cord with 10 gauge cord . But about the outlet which is scary, well I'm not as concerned because I have the dryer in the workshop and I think all the outlets are 20 amp, well all the circuit breakers are.


What is really scary is I wash oily shop towels in a whirly direct drive washer 2or 3 times then dry in a 40 year old Kenmore!!! And then just leave the building!!!!!! I set the timer to 1 hour, and and on delicate (just above low heat), but still scary!!! Maybe I should stay at the shop and periodically check on it.


Post# 829140 , Reply# 54   6/23/2015 at 05:52 (3,201 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

arbilab's profile picture
Depends what the oil is. Car oil? It specifically does NOT oxidize at dryer/engine temps. Apparently (from what I read) it is the ongoing accelerated oxidation that 'spontaneously' ignites linseed and some food oils. They won't do that in their containers. Only when applied to a wick/rag that gives oxygen a large surface area. Some will ignite WITHOUT any heat source (dryer). It's all in the nature of the oil.

It's general good practice never to turn one's back on any appliance that generates concentrated heat. Furnaces and waterheaters have redundant safeties specifically so you can sleep with them running. Dryers have redundant safeties for the heat the machine generates but it does not take into account any heat the load itself might generate.


Post# 829210 , Reply# 55   6/23/2015 at 12:46 (3,201 days old) by Kitty ()        
@arbilab

Everything. car oil, Jet engine oil. Kerosene (jet fuel), alcohol, methyl ethyl keytone, hydraulic oil acetone, etc. you get the point : a very dangerous flammable mix

Post# 829429 , Reply# 56   6/24/2015 at 20:17 (3,200 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        

Update on the dryer... The repair person came out today, While I was gone, and after I got back, the Director's wife gave me the news. Apparently the fire was no failure of the dryer, but was indeed caused by a chemical reaction (or at least started in the drum) and was deemed operator error. Apparently we shouldn't have been using the sanitize cycle (Why is it even there then?!) The dryer is beyond repair, and she is waiting for a call back from Whirlpool to find out if they can give us a good discount on a new dryer. I told her if not, I would look for a good used one to replace it with. Right now, I'm sitting at the laundromat for the second time this week. I have decided I'm going to look for a portable washer and dryer set, to be put in the kitchen (there is a perfect corner for them in the dish area with access to water, drain, and 120v power) To be used for kitchen linens and staff laundry.

Post# 829464 , Reply# 57   6/25/2015 at 02:48 (3,199 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
I have a small amount of experience with

mark_wpduet's profile picture
LAUNDROMATS!

In the mid 1990s, I briefly worked at a Texaco in Maryville, TN (part of Knoxville) It was on Hunt Road and it had a laundromat and a grill! Two of us worked at night from 3 to ll pm. One of us had to clean the grill area and the other had to do the laundromat. I HATED doing the laundromat. Opening those dryer panels and sweeping all that lint away...But it was done EVERY night. Cleaning the washers, and bathrooms in the laundromat. I hated that part of working there. I only did it for a few months. I can't imagine any laundromat neglecting to clean those dryer lint screens, because they were always covered with lint! I'm not surprised there are fires in laundromats that are too lazy to clean them.


Post# 829470 , Reply# 58   6/25/2015 at 05:01 (3,199 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

arbilab's profile picture
IINM the exact wording of the warning is "use with fabrics washed in water only" with no mention of what the fabrics contained before they were washed. It's not really your fault the detergent left enough cooking oil to oxidize and self ignite. The legal 'reasonable person' could not have foreseen that.

Post# 829493 , Reply# 59   6/25/2015 at 07:33 (3,199 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Fire Warning

combo52's profile picture

Martin posted WPs fire warning in reply #11, this warning is on ALL WP laundry products for many years now.

 

While it is always good to keep duct-work and lint filters clean on any clothes dryer, NOT doing so does not cause many dryer fires, dryers today have plenty of safeties built-in to prevent dangerous operation.

 

This unfortunately is operator error, [ it could have happened to any of us including ME ] and the lesson I hope we all learned is to never attempt to dry clothing that had cooking oil or linseed oil on them unless you are completely sure that they are completely clean.


Post# 829498 , Reply# 60   6/25/2015 at 07:59 (3,199 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
"It's not really your fault the detergent left enough cooking oil to oxidize and self ignite."

Cannot speak to modern times, but for ages laundry/housekeeping manuals gave specific warnings about things contaminated by flammable substances. Specifically such things were *not* to be machine dried unless or until one was absolutely sure all traces of oil, grease, fat, or whatever had been removed. This was on top of the warnings about using "home dry cleaning" solvents or spot removers then putting such treated items into a dryer.

It wasn't that long ago that housewives were using gasoline or kerosene to "dry clean" items at home. Then of course you had shop rags, rags your husband used when working on the car or some such, if your husband's job involved being in contact with petrol substances and so forth.

Restaurants are a particular worry because staff often use napkins or towels to clean up oil/fat spills. If those items are not disposed of/stored properly prior to laundering and or that process is not carried out properly you can have problems. www.semissourian.com/story/177813...

Many operating Laundromat or whatever business think doing restaurant/kitchen linen is nothing special. However it is a well known fact employees of such places often grab whatever is at hand (napkin or towel) to clean up any sort of spill. If these things are sent to the laundry and the operators do not know/understand what they are getting, again you can have problems.



Post# 829540 , Reply# 61   6/25/2015 at 14:54 (3,199 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
>she is waiting for a call back from Whirlpool to find out if they can give us a good discount on a new dryer.

I hope they do. It would be a nice gesture.

One thought: if they balk, they could perhaps be persuaded by starting an on-line petition requesting a good deal on a dryer.

It seems to me that insurance should cover this sort of thing, although filing claims can sometimes result in higher premiums.


Post# 829548 , Reply# 62   6/25/2015 at 15:49 (3,199 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

So if we get a bit of butter, olive or vegetable oil on a tablecloth I guess we are supposed to hand wash it and let it hang to dry?


Post# 829565 , Reply# 63   6/25/2015 at 17:03 (3,199 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture





Post# 829580 , Reply# 64   6/25/2015 at 20:10 (3,199 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture

Yow! That just spontaneously combusted!

And be sure your vent line & the belly of your dryer where the workings are (or over-head, in this case) are also clean, dust, debris, and lint-free!

 

 

-- Dave


Post# 829586 , Reply# 65   6/25/2015 at 21:46 (3,199 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

I can't figure out HOW we are supposed to know the items are completely clean.  I mean we put them in an automatic washer and it does it's thing...how are we supposed to know there is no more residue left in them?

The oil stains are gone?  What? How?

 

I don't use the my washer, dryer or DW unless I am going to be home for the entire time, but even then I am not exactly sitting in front of them...so...?


Post# 829587 , Reply# 66   6/25/2015 at 21:50 (3,199 days old) by Gusherb (Chicago/NWI)        

Through that whole video I was hoping he'd close the dryer door as to not feed more oxygen to the smoldering clothes, and I was appalled that there wasn't a fire extinguisher handy or that the guy didn't use one.



This post was last edited 06/25/2015 at 23:35
Post# 829592 , Reply# 67   6/25/2015 at 22:24 (3,199 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Oil/Fat/Grease

launderess's profile picture
Terribly difficult to remove from textiles. Mainly because they are hydrophobic substances (repel water) that it often takes more than detergent/soap and water to totally shift.

Anyone who has gotten a mark from salad dressing or other oily substance on a blouse or shirt, laundered and saw the mark "gone" after coming out of the wash; only for it to reappear after drying with heat (tumble dryer or ironing) knows what one means.

A solvent is what is required to shift oils since they can get around the water repellent bit.

Historically a whole host of what we now know are nasty chemicals were used both commercially and domestically to deal with oil/fat marks. Benzine, 1.1.1. Trichoroethylene, perchloroethylene, naptha, and other substances derived from petrol including using straight gasoline. Indeed the great claim to fame for Fels and other "naptha" soaps was that bit of chemical (some soaps used benzene) shifted oils quite well.

Even today commercial laundries will often dry clean linens and garments with heavy oil/fat marks (more than can be simply just done on the spotting board), then launder by traditional methods and then dry/iron and or press. The dry cleaning solvents deal quite well with oils.

Massage therapists have a very hard time finding detergents that will shift oil from their linens. There are additives and or detergents sold to commercial laundries that are meant to deal with heavy oil stains. The formulas in such circumstances normally involve multiple washes (often at high temperatures) in an attempt to shift oil.


Post# 829595 , Reply# 68   6/25/2015 at 22:38 (3,199 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Did you know?

launderess's profile picture
What has become known as "dry cleaning" was invented by a Frenchman?

After a maid upset an oil lamp onto a table cloth , Jean Baptiste Jolly noticed after the oil dried the affected area was cleaner than the untreated portion. The maid's name is lost to us but M. Jolly gave us "nettoyage ŕ sec" (dry cleaning).

It is this association with France that gave rise to the marketing of "French" dry cleaning which you still see used today. Persons simply sought to cash in on the cachet of the associations with France and French culture to set that method apart from general laundry (with water).

Today of course it is all rubbish; Chinese, Korean, American, French, German whatever the nationality of the operator all dry cleaning works with the same process. The common industry joke about "French" dry cleaning is that it will cost the customer more for the exact same process.


Post# 829606 , Reply# 69   6/26/2015 at 00:26 (3,198 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)        
"Operator Error"???

and "shouldn't have been using the sanitize cycle"??? I'd need a detailed WRITTEN (and signed) explanation from the repairmen in hand before I'd even consider buying that. I see a bit of a logic problem with the notion that a 'sanitize' cycle should not be used with machine washable/dryable kitchen linens. Are you confident the director's wife relayed this information accurately? 

 

Jerrod6 has taken a different approach to the same point I was trying to make. Millions of people get their shirts, napkins, place mats, and table clothes spotted, splattered, or covered in cooking oil (I'm thinking olive, especially) every day. These items are then machine washed and dried. Shouldn't dryer fires be occurring much more often than they actually do? 

 

Jim 

 

 


Post# 829609 , Reply# 70   6/26/2015 at 03:08 (3,198 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Not just cooking and food oils and grease-but how bout motor oils and greases?Happens where I work.The transmitters aren't squeaky clean electronic devices as most would think-the tune drives for coils and capacitors use grease and oil to lube them-yes it gets on our clothes.Use the hand washer stuff to get it out.That works!
Yes-dryer fire at that laundry-why didn't the guy just shut the door?And where were the fire extingushers?When he was trying to get into the door that was locked-if the fire extingushers were in there-just kick the door in!Getting the fire out is more important than the door!


Post# 829617 , Reply# 71   6/26/2015 at 04:24 (3,198 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)        

aquarius1984's profile picture
And yet its so different on this side of the pond...

Any Branded and Supermarket own label detergent is capable of removing grease and oils and our washing machines are capable of utilising this.

Having worked in restaurants, fish and chip shops, pubs etc etc a simple task of putting laundry in to a low water using FL machine without pre treating anything, adding a good quality detergent and NO ADDITIVES, and setting the dial for a hot wash has never left oil residue on kitchen linen and we have never had a fire from our cooler lower wattaged dryers when they have dried.

Perhaps its time for american detergents to catch up big time with ours and for this daft notion poor performing machines that rely on the user to do 3/4 of the job (which isnt an automatic in my eyes) do be completely phased out. It really cant be that difficult to have wiring installed so you guys can have heated low water usage FL's that actually do the job properly first time over any TL or HE TL.

Maybe time to drop the heat in the dryers too to stop these fires happening. Very rare to read of a dryer fire here yet its so common over there.


Post# 829626 , Reply# 72   6/26/2015 at 05:11 (3,198 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Additives

launderess's profile picture
Post# 829630 , Reply# 73   6/26/2015 at 05:58 (3,198 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

arbilab's profile picture
Oh, that's the NEW warning. Sorry, I never owned anything that new.

Motor oils don't oxidize (to the point of self-ignition) at laundry temperatures.

Robert, have to agree (some) US dryers get too hot. I had a 90's Kenmore where I had to throttle the gas down. It got so hot it scorched the detergent scent. Quite unpleasant effect.

Detergents, I think we all strongly suspect P&G dumbs-down their stuff specifically to sell you additives. I mean, there are more flavors of Tide than there are of Lay's chips fer gawdsake.


Post# 829904 , Reply# 74   6/27/2015 at 23:44 (3,197 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        
hot dryers

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My GE gas dryer...typically I use low heat most of the time unless it's thick cotton items like towels or jeans because IMO it gets too hot, especially for the elastic in my scrub pants.


Post# 829907 , Reply# 75   6/28/2015 at 00:08 (3,196 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)        

Yes, some run hot, but others run cool. The Neptunes where I lived last fall ran cool. "Hi" was medium. "Med" was low. "Lo" was just a hint of heat.

OTOH, one dryer where I am now apparently has one setting: Scorch! I'm exaggerating, of course, but I try to use that one only for jeans, towels, etc.

Jim


Post# 829913 , Reply# 76   6/28/2015 at 01:37 (3,196 days old) by Gusherb (Chicago/NWI)        

Our Raytheon Amana dryer was a scorcher, our Samsungtag is not as hot but I only use medium heat for my clothes because of excess shrinkage/wear. Towels and other stuff gets High or "normal" as it says.
The electric Whirlpool dryer in my sisters duplex gets real hot and has a ton of airflow cuz it will dry almost anything even big loads of towels in no more then 40 minutes. (And the loads come from a DD TL so no super fast spin either)


Post# 829936 , Reply# 77   6/28/2015 at 09:19 (3,196 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Common Negative Comment Americans Have With European

launderess's profile picture
Dryers is that they do not get "hot" enough. As such drying times are longer and even then things emerge "damp" but not dry. Of course to many "dry" means scorching hot. *LOL*

We are speaking of both vented and condenser dryers. Friends had a Bosch Axis they hated the thing with a passion. Sadly the "Euro" units were the only things that would find into the laundry area of their NYC condo apartment.

Think European electric dryers top out at around 3kW of power. OTOH American versions go to 5kW or more.


Post# 829937 , Reply# 78   6/28/2015 at 09:25 (3,196 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
EU dryers not hot enough?

Those units (Bosch\Siemens) have a first target temp of 75°C (about 170°F) here in Europe, which is, in my opinion, way to hot.
They do use stepped drying (once iron dry is reached, temp is dropped by 10°C or 20°F to the "Low temp" target temp), but still, hot enought to shrink mostly anything.

Our Bauknecht heatpump dryer tops out at 65°C (150°F), which is ok. But usually, it runs quite a bit cooler.


Post# 829946 , Reply# 79   6/28/2015 at 10:56 (3,196 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Interesting bit from GE

launderess's profile picture
Pipe:
www.geappliances.com/search/fast/...

American consumers complaining about Bosch dryers: www.amazon.com/Bosch-WTV76100US-A...


Post# 829953 , Reply# 80   6/28/2015 at 13:42 (3,196 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Yes,condenser dryers get really hot. The front of my Bosch gets almost too hot to touch - I still dry almost anything on high temp without issues. Don't know how hot vented dryers get, but I since they have smaller drums and smaller fans, a 3 kW heating element shouldn't be too bad.

As for GE: a common complaint from reviewed.com seems to be that they get too hot. More than 180F in some cases.


Post# 830000 , Reply# 81   6/29/2015 at 00:42 (3,195 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        
My GE

askolover's profile picture
gas dryer is a 1998 model and has always been quite the toaster inside. I don't have a thermometer to use inside so I can't say for sure but I think it has ALWAYS been much warmer than is posted on GE's website Launderess linked to.

Post# 830013 , Reply# 82   6/29/2015 at 07:32 (3,195 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Yes, even the F&P dryer that is made by GE reached 158F on Normal and 143F on Delicate, according to Reviewed.

Post# 830029 , Reply# 83   6/29/2015 at 10:53 (3,195 days old) by Fredriksam (Sweden)        
Even Miele dryers can catch fire

well many years back when we visited france, we saw a Miele dryer that had caught fire at the camp site we were at. As i understand the clothes were fine, the fire had started in the motor or fan. It was one of these early 70´s dryers, like T333 or T336. It had these "old" knobs on the front. The washing Machines was also very old and actually, we would have used the washers if they hadnt been so Dirty and scrangy.

The whole camp site was a disaster. We thought we would live cheap and still live pretty good. This was not the case there. There was a pool you could bather in, the water was Dirty and there was a wasp nest near the water. The store had old food that wasnt edible. Bah!!! the list could go on and on.

The best thing about that trip was seeing Paris and visit the Disneyland Resort.


Post# 830132 , Reply# 84   6/30/2015 at 07:50 (3,194 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        

Dustin sorry for your troubles.  I think the fire really was caused by the new "Hot" in the Cabrio washer.  Kitchen grease plus ATC would lead me to believe there was a build up of residual grease/oil in the kitchen linens. You mention the same articles had been washed and then dried on "sanitize" many times.  I think if you had a washer with tank temp hot water, this fire might not of happened.


Post# 830392 , Reply# 85   7/1/2015 at 23:00 (3,193 days old) by dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        

You know, you may be on to something there... I never gave thought to the reduced Hot temp of the new washer vs. the old one (early 90's Kenmore DD) I had noticed that "Hot" was more like "very warm", but never considered it an issue because things always came clean. Also, on the "same items washed the same way" I just now realized, there were about 6 white cotton/polyester aprons in that load that were NOT ours... They belonged to the group that was using the camp that week, they are one of two groups that do their own cooking. I had asked if they needed anything washed, and they said they were running out of clean aprons. Who knows what they were previously washed in or if they were washed at all. That may be my answer.In any case, the dryer is gone, it was taken for scrap. I never did see the inside, I am off this week. I don't know what Whirlpool ended up doing, but am sure I will find out when I get back. I was able to pick up a small Haier portable washer for cheap yesterday, and will take that in for myself and the rest of the staff to use. Will see about having a clothesline put up for drying.

Post# 854289 , Reply# 86   11/30/2015 at 00:08 (3,041 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        

I needed to post a long overdue update on this whole situation... Apparently the dryer *wasn't* taken for scrap, but to the storage barn to get the smell out of the house, and in the meantime a new Maytag BOL top lint filter dryer was donated, and works great. About a month after the incident, a service tech showed up out of the blue to repair the burnt up Whirlpool, and I know the whole drum assembly along with the lint filter assembly and moisture sensor bars were replaced. Used lots of bleach (lol) cleaner to clean up the rest of the machine and apparently it is in working condition- but still reeks. It hasn't been used since, and the door and side panels are still yellowed. The new Maytag is still in use and working great, I never set the temp over medium though, just to be safe. Just had to share a nice gesture on Whirlpool's part. Attitudes have cooled down, and as of last month when I finished up for the season, I still have a job. Will see how things run next summer, but I do have the Haier portable and a drying rack to take up with me.


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