Thread Number: 61669  /  Tag: Modern Dishwashers
Kitchenaid KUDM25SHBL1 Foaming and Leaking
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Post# 843197   9/28/2015 at 09:26 (633 days old) by ponchoguy (NYC Suburbs)        

Was wondering if anyone had any insights on this. This unit is from 1999 and belongs to my sister. She recently stated it started to leak between the door and the top panel.

She's been using Sam's Club tablets and lives in New Jersey if that gives you any indea of the water content. She has been using these tabs for a few months now and previously had no problem with them.

What happened was she called me that she had a leak. I took a ride there and found the pump cover screws all loose. Tightened them up. Also, the upper bearing on the lower wash arm was virtually gone, so I ordered a new one and she put it on. Still seems kind of wobbly, but is now better.

She sent me a video of the machine spitting out foam between the door and top plate right at the middle. Now bear in mind that when she first noticed the leak, she canceled the cycle, pumped out the water and didn't use the machine for a few weeks until I came up there to check it out.

I've read about vinegar and table salt being used to help dissipate the foaming, but what's causing this and any ideas on how to rectify this?

I told her to try to get the foam out and then see if we can get to a point where we are running only water to see if we get a leak. I've told her not to replace the unit because ANY machine will leak out foaming suds---old or new.

Any ideas of what to check would be great. I'm going to have to coach her through it to do it, since I can't be there again personally for a while. I can send whatever photos (or a video if this forum supports it) that you might need.

Thanks again.





Post# 843202 , Reply# 1   9/28/2015 at 10:09 (633 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        

The only few things that cause really sudsing issues in a DW I could imagine would be rinse aid, detergent residue on pre-washed dishes or maybe a way to low water level.

Let her run the DW without anything in again (neither dishes nor detergent), and then try again with a normal load.

The rinse aid could be comming from a problem with the dispenser or if she refilled it shortly before.
A bad valve could cause low water level, and if detergent mixes with the water while the pump runs half-dry, that could wip up suds.


Post# 843220 , Reply# 2   9/28/2015 at 12:23 (633 days old) by ponchoguy (NYC Suburbs)        
Detergent Tabs

I think she uses detergent tabs (no rinse aid liquid or anything like that), but I've been telling her first thing is to get rid of the suds first as ANY machine will leak suds...

Post# 845299 , Reply# 3   10/11/2015 at 13:55 (620 days old) by Ponchoguy (NYC Suburbs)        
Bump

Still foaming....any ideas? Hasn't had soap in it for over a month. Did the salt trick and it ran with no leaks. Tried again, and foam as shown....

Post# 845305 , Reply# 4   10/11/2015 at 14:23 (620 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        
Actually, no...

After 5 plus cycles without any detergent, any residue should be rinsed away plenty.
If there is no rinse aid used, the rinse aid tank has to be empty, and thus non could get into the wash phases.
If this problem started out of no-where, it should not be related to any water impurities and such.

My last 2 ideas: Clean out the sump\pump (several manuals to be found online) and maybe - if there is one - check the valve that prevents water from syphoning back into the washer after drain out. If these get stuck, usually cleaning quality gets worse and worse, but it could be - theoreticly - pulling in water with liquid dishwashing detergent from the sinks pipeing it is hooked up to.


Post# 845310 , Reply# 5   10/11/2015 at 14:27 (620 days old) by cuffs054 (GA)        

I've got the same problem with my Whirlmore Ultra Wash II. I can hear the suds forming just after the dispenser drops the tab. DW doesn't do it with powder. I'm blaming it on the mighty power of the pump!

Post# 845361 , Reply# 6   10/11/2015 at 20:13 (620 days old) by Combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Foaming dishwasher

combo52's profile picture
I think she got some hand dishwashing soap in the machine, it can take a long time to clear this out whenever we have a customer who's machine starts foaming we advise them to stop the dishwasher and add 1/4 cup of cooking oil, salt and vinegar do nothing.

Detergent tablets contain wedding agent and can contribute to foaming problems Low fill level could also cause foaming. It's also possible that the check valve at the drain on the pump is worn out and this allows air to be drawn back into the pump which contributes to the dishwasher making a lot of foam the check valve may need to be replaced. You can often tell if the check valve is bad by listening at the disposer or airgap While the dishwasher is washing and if you hear is sucking noise you know the airgap is shot.


Post# 845421 , Reply# 7   10/12/2015 at 09:16 (619 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

pierreandreply4's profile picture
is the kitchen aid dishwasher an he and filter model no grinder i have a kenmore elite dishwasher when purchuise in 2005 the sears clerck told us it was a kitchenaid base model sometime you need to purge the extra water with the cancel drain button and if the person use say cascade tabs those contain some dawn liquid soap or if she puts more than 1 tab that can cause suds i do not know

Post# 845736 , Reply# 8   10/14/2015 at 00:55 (617 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        
Tabs foam in my KA and MT

askolover's profile picture

In my old Maytag we had foaming with Finish and Cascade.  Now that the KA is installed, I've been using gel with chlorine and it's been washing fine.  This morning and tonight I used a Walmart brand powder packet and I could hear the foam, opened the door and sure enough there it was.  A few days ago I noticed foaming with Finish in the KA too.  I guess I'll just stick with chlorine gel that was out when this KA was built...worked fine for all those years before enzymes!


Post# 845746 , Reply# 9   10/14/2015 at 04:17 (617 days old) by Chachp (Conway, AR)        
I thought I read somewhere that the gels are bad ..

chachp's profile picture
...for your machines. It thought I read they had clay or something in them that could harm your machine.

I only use powders in my older machines for the same reason. I always had foaming issues with just about any tablet I tried.


Post# 845971 , Reply# 10   10/15/2015 at 17:45 (616 days old) by ponchoguy (NYC Suburbs)        
Foaming

My sister ran it several times (with vinegar and salt) to clear out the suds. My mother gave her a different brand of detergent tab and she ran it with a full load and no suds or leak.

We'll keep an eye on it. She had been using Finish brand previously and my brother in law went and got some tabs from Sam's Club which she used for a few months with no problems. It's possible that whoever makes the tabs for Sam's changed their formulation, who knows.

We'll monitor it and let everyone know. Perhaps a combination of the pump screws being loose and the detergent may have caused the issue. We'll see.....

Thanks!


Post# 846563 , Reply# 11   10/19/2015 at 09:18 (612 days old) by ponchoguy (NYC Suburbs)        
Fingers Crossed

So far, so good...fingers crossed....Thanks for all the input.

Post# 846564 , Reply# 12   10/19/2015 at 09:28 (612 days old) by chachp (Conway, AR)        
I alternate between Finish and Cascade Powder

chachp's profile picture

Whatever is on sale that week and I have great results with both.  The only time I have ever had foaming was when I used a tablet.


Post# 846584 , Reply# 13   10/19/2015 at 11:44 (612 days old) by ponchoguy (NYC Suburbs)        
Thanks

I will pass that along. I'm not sure how the water differs in AR versus in NJ where she is located. I am in NYC and we are known to have "famous water" (think bagels and pizza.....).

The lower rack is a little rusty as you can see in the photos, but that is another endeavor to find a good used one.....

Thanks again.


Post# 847197 , Reply# 14   10/23/2015 at 13:03 (608 days old) by ponchoguy (NYC Suburbs)        
Lower Rack

Anyone have a good source for this lower rack? As you can see from the photo, it's seen better days. It's expensive new and if I could find a good used one, that would work.

It's part #3381480 originally which is now superseded to W10134647.

Thanks...


Post# 849243 , Reply# 15   11/2/2015 at 08:32 (598 days old) by ponchoguy (NYC Suburbs)        
Bump

Bump on a good lead for a reasonably priced lower rack...

Post# 857302 , Reply# 16   12/18/2015 at 13:40 (552 days old) by ponchoguy (NYC Suburbs)        
Lower Rack Bump

Bump, anyone have a good lower rack?

Thanks...


Post# 858011 , Reply# 17   12/23/2015 at 12:52 (547 days old) by stevet (palm coast florida)        
Rack 'em up!

I have a decent rack for a KA/WP/KM tall tub that may work for you but it does have the "bull nose" in the front of the rack that fits into the indent of the door. You could take your rack to Lowes and compare it to the current production machines and see if you have enough room to try it.

Otherwise, I always see your style machines on Craigslist by the dozens and many are in great shape for reasonable prices. You may be able to pick up a whole machine and have a good a parts donor for less than the cost of a rack.


Post# 882308 , Reply# 18   5/26/2016 at 20:59 (392 days old) by ponchoguy (NYC Suburbs)        
Rack

Thanks, I'll check that out. Sorry for the late reply, lots going on, like everyone else :).

Post# 921086 , Reply# 19   2/13/2017 at 08:52 by ponchoguy (NYC Suburbs)        
Found One....

Thanks to all. I found a decent rack for $62 shipped via Ebay. I appreciate everyone's input!

Post# 922806 , Reply# 20   2/21/2017 at 06:53 by ponchoguy (NYC Suburbs)        
Bump, Still Need a Rack

The lower rack that was shipped was not right, so the search continues! Anyone out there with a good one, let me know.

Thanks!


Post# 922914 , Reply# 21   2/21/2017 at 18:34 by stevet (palm coast florida)        
Picture of your old rack?

You know the saying about a thousand words, Ponch. Can you post one here for us to see? Maybe the dimensions as well? My offer still stands and will help get my wife off my back by taking something down form the attic and selling it!

Let me know if I can be of help.
Steve


Post# 924169 , Reply# 22   2/28/2017 at 11:29 by ponchoguy (NYC Suburbs)        
Sure

Steve:

Sure, I will get the data from my sister and post it here for you. Thanks again....

Joe


Post# 924325 , Reply# 23   3/1/2017 at 07:21 by ponchoguy (NYC Suburbs)        
As Steve says, pics are worth.....

More than a thousand words :).

Here are some photos of the original rack and the unit I got off Ebay which was advertised as a WLP #W10134647. I believe it's an old version of it.

Notice how the original rack has the wheels just clip onto the "main rail" of the rack. Then, notice that the Ebay rack has those extra brackets where the wheels attach. Then, notice the photo of where I'm trying to put the original wheels on the Ebay rack and it won't fit.

Perhaps there was another version of the wheels that worked with that version of the rack? If so, perhaps if I had those, this rack would work.

Any feedback is appreciated.

Thanks.


  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 4         View Full Size
Post# 924862 , Reply# 24   3/4/2017 at 09:40 by Imperial70 (******)        

I have a Kenmore Ultra Wash machine from 1995. I had that exact same problem when I used the finish power tabs. I actually have to use the store brands packets to prevent it from doing that. I remember reading something here about the modern detergents don't react well with the powerful water force of the older machines. Anyway I believe the recommendation was to use a less powerful detergent. The modern detergents are slowly obsoleting the older machines. :-(


Post# 925017 , Reply# 25   3/5/2017 at 05:15 by ponchoguy (NYC Suburbs)        
Yes, we solved the foaming

Yes, we solved the foaming by going back to the original detergent and I tightened up the pump cover screws. Also, I replaced the lower spray arm bearing which was worn to nothing. LOL.

So far, so good. Now to solve this lower rack problem.....



Post# 925021 , Reply# 26   3/5/2017 at 06:02 by Magic_Clean (Florida)        
Looks

like your replacement rack is not a Whirlpool / KitchenAid part. Appears to be from a Frigidaire.

Post# 925278 , Reply# 27   3/6/2017 at 11:05 by ponchoguy (NYC Suburbs)        
It could be?

The Ebay seller didn't want it back, just refunded the money. I'd swap it for the right rack if someone has one that fits my machine....

Thanks.


Post# 925279 , Reply# 28   3/6/2017 at 11:14 by ponchoguy (NYC Suburbs)        
Pictures of the Original Lower Rack

Here are some more photos of the original lower rack if anyone can help with a good priced replacement :).

Thanks.


  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 4         View Full Size
Post# 929034 , Reply# 29   3/26/2017 at 10:17 by ponchoguy (NYC Suburbs)        
Bump

Still looking for a good lower rack...

Thanks.


Post# 933851 , Reply# 30   4/22/2017 at 07:09 by ponchoguy (NYC Suburbs)        
Bump, Bump

Still looking for a lower rack if anyone comes across one...thanks!

Post# 938009 , Reply# 31   5/12/2017 at 11:45 by ponchoguy (NYC Suburbs)        
Bump, Bump

Still looking for the lower rack.

Thanks.


Post# 938621 , Reply# 32   5/15/2017 at 08:27 by Stevet (palm coast florida)        
Racking our brains!

Still trying to find you one on my end!

Post# 940558 , Reply# 33   5/27/2017 at 19:26 by ponchoguy (NYC Suburbs)        
Thanks Steve!

Thanks Steve!




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