Thread Number: 6252
The Importance Of Keeping Your Hoses Tucked Away
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Post# 127245   5/7/2006 at 18:21 (6,535 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Hoses extended:






Post# 127246 , Reply# 1   5/7/2006 at 18:22 (6,535 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Hoses tucked safely away:



Post# 127248 , Reply# 2   5/7/2006 at 18:34 (6,535 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        
And yes, it took me most of the day...

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Found some suitable 1/2" heater hose to extend the drain hose. Once I had finally accepted that I'd have to use modern stainless worm-drive hose clamps on the unicouple, the rest was relatively simple, just time-consuming.

Used a Dremel cutoff wheel to remove the chromed ridged ferrules on the unicouple fittings. Installed the new hoses, and put the washer in place to make them just long enough to reach the sink faucet, but not so long they wouldn't tuck in.

Noticed that the longer hoses were protruding out of the bottom of the back storage area on the washer, which of course wouldn't do. So I found some sheet metal and cut, banged, folded, and drilled it to form a bottom panel to keep the hoses from "drooping".

Everything seemed fine, so I decided to run a real load. But after everything had warmed up and cooled, couldn't get the hoses to tuck away again. Opened the back of the machine up again. Decided the new water valve was keeping the back panel too far from the hose protector, and that the hoses were getting jammed into the gap so they couldn't be tucked away completely. So I moved the valve assembly up as far as possible, and cut a layer off the double-layer of thick rubber that supposedly protects the valve wiring from splashes from above (and probably from prying fingers as well). The rubber looked home-spun to begin with so I didn't feel too bad about cutting into it.

Finally I figured that the panel holding the hose protector could be bent outwards so that it contacted the back panel, preventing the hoses from getting trapped in the gap.

Ran another full load, and was able to tuck the hoses completely away this time. We'll see if that keeps up. There is one more mod I can do - a sheet metal panel to help guide the hoses past the hose protector so they can make the extra bend to store the extra length.

With all this running of loads, I found I was robbing the Bosch in the main kitchen to provide the KA with some dirty dishes to clean. No sense in wasting heat and water.

Next mini-project: I think the thermostat on the air heater is triggering too soon, and the flow of air isn't warm enough to do a good enough job of drying the dishes. I will probably take apart the heater on the KDS-17A I have in the shop, and compare the thermostat on that with the one in the KD-2P. These thermostats are only supposed to shut off current to the heater if the fan quits completely, but the thermostat in the KD-2P acts like it's cutting out the heater much sooner than that (and I can hear the fan going all the time, with a good flow of air).



Post# 127263 , Reply# 3   5/7/2006 at 20:13 (6,534 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        
Bad Thermostat

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Checked the old one with an ohm-meter, and it registers full resistance (open) at room temp. Pulled the thermostats from the 17A and 21A, they both register zero ohms (closed) at room temp. Also put the DW on a watt meter, and this confirmed that heater was not functioning (drawing only 26 watts, which is about what you'd expect for the fan motor and timer).

Soooooo... used the tstat from the 21A in the KD-2P. Voila! Heater activates, system draying over 1,000 watts, now the dishes will get drier than before (they weren't getting very dry at all with just an unheated air flow).

Now have to check with the local appliance parts store to see if they can get a Tstat for a 21A. I figure the 21A has a better chance than a 17A, and I know they won't be able to reference a KD-2P.

BTW, the old Tstat also looked like someone replaced it - somewhat inexpertly, with mis-matched screws and lock washers as spacers. Probably needed the spacers because the one they put in doesn't fit the same as the original one probably did.

Ahh... warm plates at last!



Post# 127264 , Reply# 4   5/7/2006 at 20:39 (6,534 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        
Even better news

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I finally gave the seller of the dishwasher a call. I updated him on the progress, and asked him about the upper side racks. He said it rang a bell, and he had thought he had included them with the washer. He said he'll look around to see if he can find them, and give me a call in a couple of days.

Didn't ask him about the soap dish... didn't want to push my luck ;-)


Post# 127269 , Reply# 5   5/7/2006 at 21:11 (6,534 days old) by brent-aucoin ()        

Thanks for all of your pictures.
That is such a beautiful machine!
It looks super!
Brent


Post# 127271 , Reply# 6   5/7/2006 at 21:14 (6,534 days old) by varicyclevoice (Davenport, Iowa)        
Wow

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You have everything so beautifully arranged! Very nice job!

Post# 127299 , Reply# 7   5/7/2006 at 23:51 (6,534 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        
Happy Ending

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Tonight I picked up the missing top cup racks... now the KD-2P is complete!


Post# 127311 , Reply# 8   5/8/2006 at 00:40 (6,534 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
a wonderful project...

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...and a great dishwasher. Thanks for sharing with us. I wonder, do you suppose that a shop which does hydralics or serious air-conditioning work could replace those stainless steel hose clamps with the real thing? The would certainly have a need for crimp on fastenings, no?

Post# 127319 , Reply# 9   5/8/2006 at 01:25 (6,534 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Thanks, Brent and Varicycle.

I was looking back on my experience with this machine - I got it April 2, and it's taken me about a month to get it to the point where I think it's ready for regular use. I am curious about tis water consumption - and am planning at some point to measure the drain water...

I also thought to summarize all the work that needed to be done to get the machine into service:

1) Un-jam stuck drain/recirculation valve
2) Fix stuck Start switch
3) Design, fabricate, and install replacement lid hinges
4) Select and fit appropriate hinge springs
5) Select and Replace inlet valve
6) Replace hoses and extend them about two feet to reach faucet from location beside countertop
7) Design, fabricate and install new bottom panel to block longer hoses from dragging on floor
8) Troubleshoot and replace Kitchenaire heater thermostat
9) Procure missing upper side racks

All along the way it's been a kind of journey of discovery, working for the first few weeks without a service manual and trying to figure out what was missing and what needed to be corrected (such as an incorrect fill valve and mis-routed hoses). Along the way I've been impressed with Hobart's initial design and workmanship - save perhaps for the original flimsy pot-metal lid hinges. It may not be the most energy or water efficient dishwasher in the world today, but it gets dishes clean in about 20 minutes, and bone dry in another 20. Not too many modern dishwashers can claim that speed record.


Post# 127321 , Reply# 10   5/8/2006 at 01:34 (6,534 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Panthera,

I did some calling around but kept on running into dead-ends. Either companies didn't want to deal with stuff they didn't provide, or they didn't have the correct type of crimp fittings.

I can get the plain brass ferrules, and have seen the nickel plated ones on the internet - albeit in bulk quantities. I am considering making my own crimp dies and using a bench vice to crimp a fitting or two, as a test. It wouldn't be fancy but it would do the trick. The actual crimping tools run about $400. In any case, the stainless worm-drive hose clamps don't look as bad as I feared, and also they don't interfere with the attachment or removal of the unicouple from the faucet.


Post# 127329 , Reply# 11   5/8/2006 at 05:25 (6,534 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
no, they do not look bad at all.

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Rich, I think the whole thing looks great - from start to finish. I have been wondering about those pot metal hinges. Could someone have forced them at some point? They just don't match up with the otherwise outstanding quality in this lovely machine.
Thanks again for sharing.
Keven


Post# 127330 , Reply# 12   5/8/2006 at 05:43 (6,534 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Each fill should use 2 and one third gallons. The purge amount you will have to measure. Total water consumption will have to take into consideration the extra amount needed to fill the long dong silver fill hose.

The great thing about those three top rack sections is that if you have big cookie sheets or a large paella pan, you can take out one or both of the side sections and the dishwasher will accommodate the items perfectly.


Post# 127331 , Reply# 13   5/8/2006 at 05:54 (6,534 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

As high as your faucet is, do you have a length of washing machine drain hose to put on the bottom of the unicouple to carry the drain water down to near the drain in your sink? If you can find either a piece with a gradual bend or one with an elbow near the bottom, it can direct the water to the drain without causing splashing in the sink. I keep mine in the little tilt out bin behind the panel in front of the sink. Yours would obviously need a bigger storage space.

Post# 127345 , Reply# 14   5/8/2006 at 07:59 (6,534 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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What a great feeling to have it all done! It looks beautiful and I'm sure you've had fun playing with it. I love the short, powerful cycle on these machines - no messing around in there, just gets the job done!

Congrats on the finished product, it's been fascinating to watch your progress and fabrication of parts!


Post# 127374 , Reply# 15   5/8/2006 at 10:47 (6,534 days old) by designgeek ()        


Excellent job, dude! Including all the rest of the custom fabrication. And I like your kitchen too.

What I think would be really cool would be a glass window in the top lid on these TL dishwashers, or on the front door on the FL types. Don't know if that's practical as a modification though.


Post# 127423 , Reply# 16   5/8/2006 at 14:25 (6,534 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Tom,

Yes, I used an old washer drain hose for this. I removed it for these photos because it's kind of ugly. I posted a photo of it, though, last month in the "Look What Hobart Made" thread. It's probably still there if the thread is there.




Post# 127424 , Reply# 17   5/8/2006 at 14:29 (6,534 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Panthera,

The hinges are pot metal, and of a similar construction as the big vented handle assembly. Obviously though the handle doesn't experience the physical stress the hinges experience.

They probably broke when someone service the machine and didn't secure the lid. If the machine is laid on its side, and the lid is unlatched, then it will fly up rapidly and can break the hinges. The service manual warns against this. It's still an issue with the new hinges, but I think they would probably bend, or damage the hinge mounts, rather than break.



Post# 127425 , Reply# 18   5/8/2006 at 14:31 (6,534 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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DG,

A lid window would be nice but I would only attempt to do that with a spare lid (hard to come by). Robert replaced the stock lid on his Frigidaire top loader with a sheet of plexiglass. I have thought of doing that but for the moment I'm content with the machine as is.


Post# 127426 , Reply# 19   5/8/2006 at 14:33 (6,534 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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Hey Rich, wonderful restoration, thanks for sharing all your hard work! That's one of the most fun looking vintage portable dishwashers out there.

Post# 127581 , Reply# 20   5/9/2006 at 14:19 (6,533 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Thanks Robert and everyone.

Robert, I uploaded photos of the restoration process to my photo album. Would it be possible to add a link to it in the Colelctions or Restorations area?


Post# 127652 , Reply# 21   5/9/2006 at 21:14 (6,532 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Hi Rich, no problem, my pleasure. Your album is now added on the Photos of Collections page.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO unimatic1140's LINK


Post# 127682 , Reply# 22   5/9/2006 at 22:46 (6,532 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Thanks, Robert!

By the way, I was looking at your restoration photos of the Apex top loading dishwasher. For the glass lid insert you used for photos, did you use real glass, or plastic? I ask because I'm pretty sure that the spray from the KD-2P would blow even a thick piece of plastic off the dishwasher, but perhaps a thick piece of glass would stay put.

I made the mistake of opening the lid today when I measuring the amount of water the system uses for various cycles. I thought it had already drained enough not to activate the spray arm, but when I popped the lid I was greeted with a shower of hot water. At least it was third rinse water ;-).


Post# 127683 , Reply# 23   5/9/2006 at 22:51 (6,532 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Tom,

Yes, your water amounts seem the same as what I measure. The purge volume seems to vary. When I first measured it, the sump had dried a bit, perhaps because I had drained it slightly when adjusting the hinges yesterday. I got six quarts for the purge that time, which is 1-1/2 gallons. Then I ran a full cycle, and then checked the purge volume again. This time it was more like 9-1/2 quarts, which would be close to 2-1/3 gallons, same as for the other fills. So the total water consumption is about 9-1/3 gallons. Modern dishwashers can use as little as 5 or 6 gallons, but I understand that figure can soar due to dirt detectors that will increase the number of rinses as they think is needed. Still, 50% more hot water isn't such a big price to pay for a 22 minute wash!


Post# 127690 , Reply# 24   5/9/2006 at 23:59 (6,532 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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PS-The "long dong silver" extended fill hose is only about 20 inches longer than the stock hose. Since it's 3/8" inside diameter (actually a bit less since it's one of those new types of hoses that fit so sungly they don't need clamping), it's probably no more than about a cup of extra water. Actually, if my calcs are correct, it's about 1-1/4 fluid ounces.


Post# 127739 , Reply# 25   5/10/2006 at 09:16 (6,532 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Hi Rich, I used a thick piece of glass. I found that the plexiglas tends to warp when exposed to hot water which can create leaks, but glass stays flat.

Post# 128549 , Reply# 26   5/13/2006 at 15:17 (6,529 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
Thanks, Robert.

Just how thick?



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